I want to switch to hardcast bullets for my deer hunting with my S&W 44 mags. I’ve been told it’s not good to shoot the heavyweights in these guns.
I keep hearing about the 10gr unique loads and how they are a good general purpose load.

I keep seeing a 260gr WFN but don’t know much about it.

Any help would be appreciated.

I've had more luck with 240-grain Gold Dots and the like. The 240 and 320 HCLs I tried would pencil through almost anything, no expansion, tiny hole, long job tracking.

-Chris

I’ve never shot a deer with a cast bullet out of a 44. But I’ve had good luck on bear and pigs with the Keith or Thompson style SWCs over 9 to 10 grains of Unique. Shoot shoulders to produce more impressive results than through the ribs.

I have a Lyman 429215GC mold I converted to hollow point that I think I’ll try this year. It doesn’t have a huge hollow cavity but when cast fairly soft and driven 1250fps I think it’ll work nicely on our little deer.

I plan on shooting for bone to try to knock them down. Hunt kinda close to a property line. Have had some less than stellar blood trails in the past.

Agree with shoot for bone... I made the mistake of shooting right through the lungs on my first two and they ran a LONG way... That was with the 215 grain Lyman/Thompson GC bullet at 1250 fps..

180 grain Sierra JHC with 30 grains of H110...they can't get to the ground fast enough.

I now only hunt with cast if there is tracking snow on the ground...

Bob

I've shot them with a Lyman 245 & 265GC SWC & a Saeco 240 TC all at 13 - 1400 fps. And an RCBS 250K @ 1050 shot as big a hole & penetrated as much.

On a broadside shot all the above are likely to shoot through & not expand much. A good hard SWC @ 11-1200 & breakdown the shoulders like you mentioned should be the ticket. Otherwise softer alloy w/powder coat is an option

"Hardcast" are not necessarily the best option for cast bullets and deer, unless you plan to shoot something in the ass. If shooting for the front end, softer bullets will work better. Any deformation will likely create a wider wound channel. That said, it has been my experience that if you shoot for and hit bone with hardcast bullets, the deer don't make it far.

I have 500 pcs of the Nosler Sporting Handgun 240JHP but I can’t find much info on them online. I’ve been told they are soft. I’ve shot deer with my 460 and a 10mm just trying to use some of the others

I'd go with your initial consideration or gunzo's.

Success with hard cast require very precise placement unless you enjoy tracking.

I personally don't care for solids on thin skinned, medium to small animals. Now I personally have never hunted with a WFN in the .44 mag, but I have used Keith bullets, and compared to JHP's on deer and especially black bear, I had WAY better performance with the JHP's than I did with my cast load (which was coincidentally 10 gr of unique behind a 429421 bullet...I later dropped to 9 grains).

Used against black bear, the 429421 Keith style bullet killed about the same as my pet .357 JHP, which was adequate, but not inspiring. For me, the cast bullet killed just fine, but the JHP seemed to also stop bears (black bears) with much more authority. Given the performance on medium game, I have never seen ANY reason to question my JHP choice, performance has been outstanding.

Now if we were talking game much larger than deer, I would consider a change, but never for deer.

I

I've shot medium size mule deer bucks with a 44Mag and G22 .40S&W. The 44Mag was with some older Sierra 240HP and the 40 with 180g cast. The one shot with the .40 was through the lungs at about 35 yards and it went for about 300 yards before lying down. The 44Mag hit the deer in about the same place and it went about 15-20 yards and folded. I don't think it was the caliber as much as the bullet design. As others have mentioned the use of a JHP bullet out of a 44Mag seems to make good sense and good results for deer.

I loaded both calibers hot and with the 44Mag I was also told that shooting full on hot loads out of my 629 was not advisable so I passed on a steady diet of them. I would not have any fears about shooting a cylinder or two in a target session with the hot loads but most of the ammo through the 629 was moderately loaded.

Most of the reloads through the old Vaquero 44Mag where hot and hotter. It is ready to go with 300g cast loads at 1377fps over my chronograph for those bear encounters in Idaho and Montana.

Never done the 260 WFN 44.

Have done the 280 WFN, 300 WLN and the H&G 503 Keith in 44. Have seen the 350 WLN softnosed first hand as well.
All collected some substantial bone, so none moved beyond 5 feet.
My Smith loads start and stop at 280 grs.

I would softnose a cast bullet WAY before Id run most jacketed hollow points if I were wanting some expansion.

I use a 260gr. WFN in my 44 SPL at around 900. I’m convinced it will penetrate any deer at any angle out to 30 yds, which is as far as I’ll shoot. 44 cal hole going in, 44 cal hole going out, often with mush in the middle, but I shoot for bone just to be sure. The deer don’t react very much, it seems, and go about 40 yards on average if I don’t break the shoulder. If I hit the shoulder, they go two feet. Down.

Old70

While I’ve not taken a deer with my .44 Mag., I’ve killed an antelope and a black bear with my “home cast” 265 grain SWC.....quite effectively! memtb

I shot a deer with a 240 SWC and 10.5 Unique........later dropped to Universal Clays....about 1.5 grain reduction, for same speed, much cleaner and meters great. I did get good accuracy with some 200 Noslers about 4 grains under max with H110 and W296. Less recoil than top end 240 jacketed loads.

These days I use 210 RP JSP or 210 XTP in 41.....recoil more tolerable than 44 with top loads.

A few years ago I got 1000 Lyman 431244 @ 245gr. cast in pure Linotype from a grizzled old geezer at a PA gun show & developed loads with 2400, H110, & W296. My lot of W296 worked best & book loads were a bit stouter back then. Of course I pushed a bit farther just short of stiff extraction. Out of a 6" Model 29 the most accurate full power load was averaging 1456 fps in new WW factory primed brass. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) the only thing other than targets, paper or steel, & an Oehler skyscreen, I've been able to shoot with it was a groundhog in the back yard at about 15 or 20 paces. Quick kill with slight aerobatics. Never found the bullet. I've dug some out of the dirt at 100 yd. that might have been reloadable & am pretty sure it would anchor a deer out to 50 yds. with an off-side (or near-side) shoulder hit.

This too has been my experience. Since you hunt close to the property line you may consider a "softer" bullet. A deer doesn't require a whole lot of penetration. You also stated you have some 240 gr Nosler. Test those out, load them down to the impact velocity and shoot them into some wet newspaper.

A 240/250 SWC hard cast at 1000-1100 FPS will kill deer all day long.

In reference to comments about it not being good to shoot heavyweight projectiles in N frames. That is one of those "truths" that is parroted by people with little to no actual experience. People read things online and then repeat it as "fact" I can't tell you how many times I have read how "you can't shoot lead bullets in a Glock" in spite of shooting in excess of 50K through a Glock 21 with zero issue, as well as other calibers and currently shooting hard cast 147s in a 9mm Glock.

I have put literally thousands and thousands of 300 grain projectiles through my various M29s/629s without issue.




I am not driving them at nuclear levels, but I have driven them fast enough to give complete penetration on bull elk at 100 yards, so I would say that is quite sufficient.

When I run 300s-320s hot in the N Frames I use H110 and back off about 1.5 grains from my Ruger load.

That said for simplicity sake I have found it easier to just zero my red dot equipped Redhawk with a 300 grain load at 100 yards, and only use that load in the gun.

If you want to run a 300 grain bullet, and still be easy on the gun, push it with 10 grains of Unique.

However for deer, you don't necessarily need a 300 grain bullet unless you just really want to shoot one, as a 240/250 grain will drop any deer out there. A good hard cast SWC pushed by H110 or Unique (depending on your desired velocity) will certainly handle deer hunting chores.

I'll second Sagebrush on the ability of common SWC bullets on deer. I hunted them with 44 Mags and 45 Colts for 10-12 years and shot about that many with both, using everything from 240 & 300 JHPs (Sierra and the XTP) at well over 1300 fps, on down to common 240-255 grain SWCs at 900-1100 fps.

Hit equally well, I couldn't tell a nickels worth of difference between them. I finally learned to poke 'em through the spine at the shoulder from various angles, which puts their chin in the dirt either where they stand or within one stride.The SWCs will travel straight through a lot of animal and I never recovered one from a deer, regardless of how they were hit.

What Mackay and SargeMO said. I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot anything with a 250 gr. Keith type SWC, that I cast myself.

Shooting for bone with a 44 pistol! Damn better shot than me. Use an XTP deer are soft skinned animals

^^^^^^^ That's the ticket for me.

Killed this'n with a hard cast Keith over 18.0 gr of 2400

Great news from all three of you, Thanks! you all are making me feel better about using my little FA 97 in 44 Special this season for close range white tail deer, it fires a GT Bullets version of the 255gr Keith bullet, it's an accurate 1030 fps over 4227 powder, bullet has a nice .300 thou meplat, will also be looking for shoulders.

Hell of a deal Dave Keith! Congrats.

I'm an LBT slut

If you can’t shoot your pistol well enough to hit a deer’s shoulder you probably shouldn’t be hunting deer with it.

Trash the "hardcast" crap and go with wheelweight hardness bulets. Hard cast rarely slugs up, leads badly, and doesn't expand. Lyman 429421 or 429244gc over 20 2400 is all I use. M29, Super Blackhawk, 94 Win, 94 Marlin.

Yep. 280 gr WFN LBT. 10 grains of Unique. Kills deer and hogs here at the Ranch graveyard dead.

Any .44 LBT design that starts with a W will kill deer like a rifle with similar shot placement.

The W stands for Whacks Hard.

A wide meplat hardcast leave large wound channels and kill very well in my experience. 75 to 80% meplat hard cast have been very good killers my me on small medium and large game

I recommend the LBT WFN types. Deer don't take a lot of bullet weight so if you shoot anything from about 225 up to 325 you are going to get exits. I use 320 Grain LBT WFN GC bullets in my 44 magnums and nothing else. In my 44 Specials I use 250 and 260 grain LBT WFNS or 460 grain Keith SWCs.

I have read so many posts of narrow wounds and long tracking jobs using cast bullets but I started killing various critters with a 45 colt using cast bullets in 1969 and went to a 44 magnum in 1973. I have killed several dozen deer with cast 44s and 45s and with 44 mags I have also killed a few elk, bears, antelope, cattle, horses and 2 buffalo with wide nosed Keith SWCs and the LBT WFN bullets I have never seen "narrow wounds and long tracking jobs". In fact, so far, every kill I have made in my entire life with revolvers has been a 1 shot kill. I did kill 1 white tail with 2 shots from a 45ACP but those bullet were military hardball. My mistake, because I wanted to use 225 grain HPs but I forgot to swap magazines and killed the deer with what was in the gun. That deer went about 40 yards after the 1st hit but even the hard ball didn't make for a super long tracking job. The 2nd shot finished it off.

I bet at least 1/3 of the game I have killed with handguns fell within 15 feet of where they were hit and about 10-12 have dropped in one step or less. A few have fallen instantly while the gun was still in recoil. I do aim for bone if I can, but I have seen many fast kills when I missed the bones .

My experience with 44 magnums and 45 colts and my 454 Casull, all using hard cast flat nose bullets, has proven to me that they are far more effective than most people thing they are. Thinking back on the kills I have made with 30-30s 35 Remington's and 303 British rifles I have to say that similar hits with my 44 magnums have killed the game just about as fast judging from the time from shot to the animals being on the ground.

I use an LBT 260 gr. WFN at about 975 out of my 44 SPL. I don’t think there is a deer that would stop that bullet. I’ve had straight line penetration for about 28” diagonally through bone.

Old70

I think it's the "hard" part of hard cast that people don't like as much hunting medium game.

I have to agree that hard may not be best for light game like deer. Here’s an option that can give you a Keith SWC along with a hollow point option. Mihec makes beautiful molds, they cast great and this mold is a clone of the H&G 503, which by many accounts is pretty true to Elmer’s original. With the added benefit of a hollow point if you desire.

Cast soft, 8-11 BHN, with the HP pins, would give you a great deer bullet.

Dick Thompson, who used to post here quite a bit has taken a lot of game with soft cast HP bullets.

Mihec 503

I've used 5744 for target loads. But for hunting I use full power H110 or 2400 and 245 semi-wadcutter with GC,

I'm pretty sure the 5744 loads would work, just never tried them.

Is anyone running the Lee 310gr bullet C430-310 on deer? Seems to have a nice big metplat and multiple seating bands. I got one to try in my 1881 Swiss Vetterli for deer, but haven't had a chance to get to the range. As long as it will feed and is reasonably accurate, it should hit harder than the Vetterli replica bullet that has a much smaller metplat. I need to try it in my .44 mag SB Hunter, but it will have a hill to climb to shoot better than 2.5 MOA groups at 100yds that it will do with 240 XTPs.

I've found that bullet to be quite accurate if it's sized appropriately. Small sample in regard to deer and elk, but they certainly exit. The alloy I have run allowed for a bit of expansion or at least riveting of the WFN. I tend to shoot for bone with cast bullets unless the alloy is very soft for the speed I am pushing them.

good to hear. I think the ones I cast were with a 10-11 Bhn alloy according to the Lee tool. The 33" barrel on the Vetterli will get them up over 1400 fps easily so there might be some expansion. I think I'm going to see if I can make a collet up and reliably drill a hollow point in the lathe on a few and see how they shoot. I don't think I need a hollow point, but should be an interesting endeavor.

Don't have any use at all for hard cast lead.

Pure lead works in rifles and pistols if properly packaged.






No exits on deer or hogs, no tracking. Bang-Flop.

Interesting DD. Never thought about paper patched handgun bullets.

Post up your results. I've never been able to make an effective HP tool for random bullets, though I've tried on and off for years. The hole inevitably ends up off-center.

The lathe and collet will guarantee the hole will be in the middle as long as the setup is right. Getting consistent depth is the trick but I think a collet with a step for the base to rest against will help with that. I did one a couple weeks ago just chucking lightly and running a center drill in and it looked decent but as it got deeper and wider the bullet wanted to slip. That's why a collet will be required, to grip 100% of the surface without crushing it.