JohnW's thread got me wondering about the future, I hope this is not a retarded question. However one begins to wonder with the scarcity of ammunition if some of the 22 long rifle pistols may soon be or already be carried by people with CCW's. The ruger LCR. G44 etc come to mind.

For several years, my everyday carry here on the farm was a Charter Arms 22LR, 8 shot stainless 2 inch barrel. I found myself shooting something with it all the time, and killed a bunch of stuff with it. Can't say that I ever worried about it not being enough gun, as I figured it was better than not carrying.

Beats a sharp stick, but not by much.

Now days I know of only a few. When I was growing up just about every adult owned just one handgun and that was in 22 caliber. My dad's only handgun was a Ruger Bearcat. We lived in the country and he found no need for anything larger. Before his brother got it, he had a S&W K-22 that he used to keep us and 3 other family's feed with venison. About every old outdoorsman had a 22 on his hip or in his glovebox. My grandfather had but one handgun for his remote travels through the still lawless southwest and it was a 22 High Standard with just one magazine. I myself, now in my late 60's worked the rather lawless deserts of southern Arizona in my youth, often standing guard on constructions sights far into the uninhabited desert and had a Ruger Mark 1 with 1 magazine. Was too young and inexperienced to know better. I could continue on about outdoorsmen I know that wandered from Alaska to Mexico with nothing but a 22 handgun, Even the legendary African white hunter Harry Selby carried a 22 Colt Woodsman on all his Safaris'. I carried nothing but a pre war Colt Woodman for decades while guiding hunters and wandering to west. Now days I read more than I experience and carry bigger things because ????

I only carry a 22 for dolphins.

Since merely producing a gun stops the majority of criminals, and the majority of defensive stops (i.e., from being hit by a bullet of any type) are psychological ("Oh crap, I've been shot!"), they can be enough in most cases.

For a few years, back in the 1990s, my only carry gun was a NAA Mini Revolver in .22 lr that I carried in my front pants pocket. Once, just putting my hand in that pocket and taking hold of the Mini Revolver was enough to turn back a determined approach by an unsavory looking character. He quite clearly noticed the move, and literally did a 180. Had he taken another step or two towards me, it would have been produced.

This is a subject that I really enjoy and will relate a few people I know or have heard about who's only handgun was 22 caliber. These will be real people who used them daily, not just leave them in their sock drawer. Bud was a outdoorsman extraordinaire, from his youth in the 30;s he wandered , trapped, carried US mail on his back between mining camps, and prospected. His only companion was a pre war Colt Woodman that was so worn by his 60's that one grip was worn though to the metal. Read an account of a man that walked to Alaska in the 30's before there was a road, and he carried a Woodman and said he never felt under gunned till he had to shoot grizzly bears. Wow. Earnest Hemmingway, while not too gun savvy, swore by the Woodsman and carried one often as did Patton. Castners Cutthroats, a group of Alaskan outdoorsmen pressed into service during WW 2 carried self loading 22 as part of their kit while perusing the Japs on Kiska and Attu islands. An Alaskan cattle rancher on Kodiak island had a 4" barred Colt Woodsman on his hip daily that was so worn that the front sight was missing, He took a Kodiak bear that surprised him with the little gun. While the little cartridge is far from ideal, it is easy to hit with thus good shots are easier to accomplish. The largest grizzly ever killed at that tine was killed with a single shot from a 22 long cartridge.

I put down a lot of game with a NAA in 22 mag. Small package, but 5 rounds about the power of a standard 22.

I carry a 43c when I run and sometimes when I go to town in my running shorts. 8 shots of Winchester Power Points in a gun that I shoot well, doesn’t have me worried about being under gunned.

It’s better than a 45 in the truck console...

I believe Deflave carries a .22 revolver, too.

Back before Michigan had Shall Issue, I occasionally carried a Beretta 21A.

Like you, I carried a 22 Woodsman during my career as an elk guide and used it to finish off at least a dozen each, deer, elk, and antelope along with a number of other odd critters. Two uninjured elk became burger and chops after a run in with the little Woodsman.

I carry a Walther TPH in my left pants pocket for just in case. It didn't function for squat until I polished the feed ramp with Flitz and my Dremel buffing wheel. Now I trust it.

I used to carry a 22, but then the Raccoons eating off a deer feeder I put out got so big that shooting one with a 22 resulted in them looking at me like - “that ain’t a knife”...

I moved up to a 22 Mag pistol... kind of better

Then I got a 32 H&R Mag - that seems to work on raccoon & opossums.

Awesome concept. Looks like a great little gun.

I often carry a Beretta 21A in a pocket holster when out walking with wife and dog in our neighborhood. Fits nicely in a hip pocket, always there if you need it. In the summer, first round in the barrel is a CCI snake load for rattlers. Highly concealable and lightweight are pluses, IMO. If coyotes in our area get bolder, as they sometimes do, then a 9mm gets carried.

I think a .22 LR loses too much velocity in handguns.

I don't personally believe in ammo shortages. I carry a .22 around the place as I frequently come across targets of hopportunity.

And I like to shoot. Take an average day with normal aggravations and frustrations, add a .22 revolver and a coon trying to get in the dog food, and you now have an adventure. Hauling brush to the burn pile and attacted by rabbits? Adventure boys, adventure...

Howsoever lilliputian that adventure may be, it beats a day without.

And the youngest son and I are batching it this week as wife/mom is up with the grandkids who are schooling from home. Fried a couple of bunnies for supper last night. Attack rabbit gravy on our biscuits this morning.

Would I carry a .22 revolver for self defense? Not by choice. Think of how silly it sounds. Add in the potential for rimfire primer FTF, and I will always choose a centerfire for self defense.

That said, I'll bet I've run 1500 rounds through my LCR since august, and some of those rounds likely as old as the average poster here. Not a misfire yet, of any sort.
If I'm going about my daily adventures here on the place, I consider myself to be adequately armed with a .22

Been carrying various ones for years, BUT my risk level is pretty low. When I go to the Big City (Leesburg, VA) I may swap it out for a .357 or 9.

Since wearing any handgun for long on my belt eventually causes my lower back some trouble, my JIC gun now is a pocket auto that holds 10. Took some break-in and ammo trials, but now I feel I can depend on it. If I’m wearing pants, it’s in ‘em. Finished off a nearly dead deer not long ago with it. In snakey conditions, my 3” M63 gets 2 or 3 shot loads on top, and 5 or 6 Stingers right behind.

Hawkeye is right, I think, as no one wants to be shot with anything. I’ve read that in the old early days, bad guys were afraid of the popguns because being shot with one likely led to a long, painful death from infection, “Lead Poisoning”.

Some .22 loads still step out pretty well in short barrels. Stingers, Velociters, and possibly some other high-speed types can yield 1000fps, give or take, in short barrels. There’s at least one report on the web on velocities taken in the NAA guns.

I carried a Colt Diamondback .22 for years when I was young cause its all I had. Suffice it to say it worked on everything I ever had to use it on.

I'll sometimes carry my wife SW model 34 when out for a walk. Loaded with CCI stingers. We had a episode with a neighbors aggressive dog one time.

You were deprived...

That is pretty much my situation

I will admit to being occasionally lazy and failing to swap out the .22 before I slip into town. There's a Farm and Fleet, a Menards, and a Walmart all at one intersection just 6 miles from the house.

Nothin' gonna happen there, right?





Can you add video to a signature line?

If I'm puttering around the family's farms in Missouri, I've almost always got a .22 handgun handy. It is pretty nice to have a 10 shot pistol weighing about a pound. You can even forget you've got it handy. Light weight is a good thing. I've got a 617 and a Single Six, too, but they usually get left behind due to the weight difference.

Exact gun I carry in a old Bianchi thumb snap when I'm walking around the farm.

nyuk nyuk nyuk

I live in a very rural area, no confrontations ever, so I don't study the armed self defense stuff. But I had a 33 year veteran of the highway patrol with 2 on-duty shootings under his belt, remark, "don't let anybody kid you about your little .22, it's a fact that 2 or 3 in the face will stop any nonsense, including angel dust". If I lived in Katanga Province, I'd carry something with more authority.

My putzing around the home woods guns are usually a Ruger LCP 22 or a S&W 34-1 also (if not carrying a rifle).

These days, it’s usually more the 34-1 because I red dotted it and can see and hit stuff really well with it while wearing my glasses - older eyes and all being my current reality.

Yes, I know it looks goofy but being able to hit stuff reliably is not



I mounted Bushnell RSX 100 last night.

Have you rigged up a holster for that contraption? The smaller sight is definitely better.

It honestly just gets carried in my hand or a jacket pocket.

Otherwise, it is in a HPG Belt pack or my usual carry bag.

Why do you carry it for the porpoise. Maybe he has a purpose though. I mean if he lives in a tough neighborhood maybe he needs it. But with respect my SIG P220 doesn't feel very heavy at all. And that's nine rounds of 230 gr HP fury. Can a perp run faster than 950 FPS? Be Well, RZ.

Because porpoises don't have hands and thus cannot carry them for themselves.

We had a shooting in Atlanter years ago, a rapist met his end with 9 22 HPs in his body from a ruger mark 1. She told him she had money in the drawer and would give it to him, and she did.

Having seen the underwhelming stopping power of .22 LR on grouse, I think I will pass on carrying one as a primary for self-defense against predatory people until I run out of everything else.

I admit that there's better guns, but it'll do during my hunting trips now. It's totally reliable with Rem yellowjackets. Usually stuffed in my field jacket pocket when I stop for a burger during a pig hunt.
Bob

Of all the gunshot victims I have treated over the years, you tend to run into twice as many people shot with .22's than other cartridges (at least that's how it was when I was a medic). With a couple of exceptions, .22LR is extremely underwhelming.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take a .22LR over no gun, but it's just not a great choice at all. That doesn't make it some kind of sin for carrying one. There are many who carry them for pest control purposes who believe it will do the job of self defense in a pinch...and they're probably right (if employed properly).

Where I live, I fear actual snakes more than the two legged versions; we just don't have much crime round here. I've found myself looking longingly at lightweight 8 shot revolvers for a pocket snake gun. I wish they made a .380 shot cartridge, then I'd just use my little .380.

Green with envy here...

I have a thing for the .22 versions of the classic pocket auto's. Always wished Colt made a .22 version of the 1903.

A rising star in the sky of IPSC! Interesting combination. And good idea for aging eyes like mine.

GREAT! Some people who had feeding problems with the Walther PP 22 lr switched to the PPK. But yellow jackts will do the job even with the heavier slide of the PP.

Wife has the availability of a Ruger SR22.. 10+1 rounds can be helpful if TSHTF...

The S&W 43c weighs next to nothing, so it’s perfect under lightweight summertime clothing around the homestead.


Changed out the front sight and installed an 11 pound trigger return spring to gain some precision.


This time of year, with heavier clothing, the S&W 63 takes over, as it’s a bit easier to shoot well.


It too has sight mods (obviously) and an 11 pound trigger return spring installed.

A determined attacker can be hard enough to put down with a proper centerfire cartridge.

Determined Attacker

I would hate to try to stop a crazy drugged up attacker with just a .22.



TRH wrote

[i]"Since merely producing a gun stops the majority of criminals, and the majority of defensive stops (i.e., from being hit by a bullet of any type) are psychological ("Oh crap, I've been shot!"), they can be enough in most cases.

For a few years, back in the 1990s, my only carry gun was a NAA Mini Revolver in .22 lr that I carried in my front pants pocket. Once, just putting my hand in that pocket and taking hold of the Mini Revolver was enough to turn back a determined approach by an unsavory looking character. He quite clearly noticed the move, and literally did a 180. Had he taken another step or two towards me, it would have been produced."[/i]

This is essentially the "Talisman gun" concept.

If one wants to rely on hope and psychology as their plan for self defense, well that is one method. One thing to consider is that generally rational people are not the ones going around attacking others. It (from my observation and experience) tends to be people under the influence of narcotics, the severely mentally ill, or dedicated predators.


Often they do not respond in what one would consider a "normal manner" . Reasoning with them, threatening to shoot them, etc all often do not have what one would consider "typical" results. These are not "rational" people.

Quite obviously in TRHs scenario his "determined" bad guy must not have been very determined since merely putting his hand in his pocket was enough to cause him to flee.

Think about this. There are numerous videos online of people having larger centerfire handguns pointed at them (versus small talisman .22s like the NAA mini revolver). That did not work. Those people then had to be shot. That still did not immediately stop their aggressive action, so they had to be shot again. And again. The mere action of pointing the talisman did not work. Shooting them did not provided instant incapacitation. They had to be brought down through CNS failure or eventually leaking enough body fluids that they stopped their aggressive actions. With every breath in their bodies, they were determined to fight. Some people are simply wired like that.

That is why I don't recommend relying on "hope" as a strategy.






chicago knife attack not instantly stopped



A question I sometimes ask people when this topic comes up is "what is the smallest caliber/gun combo that you would be willing to get into a gunfight with"? This is usually in reference to concealed carry type guns. If they knew they were going to get into a gunfight that day, with one or two armed attackers, what handgun would they carry? Is that a J Frame .38, a Glock 19, a 1911, a Model 13 .357 mag?

Whatever their answer is, is what I tell them that they should be carrying as a concealed carry gun (within reason).

While I do carry a .22 for fun while in the field, small game hunting, etc, and would use it if I had no other options, or had a specific mission requirement, I would not choose a .22 over a modern 9mm, .38 Special or .45 acp intentionally .

I load in bulk, so even with shortages of some components that are happening, I simply load up heavy duty animal defense type loads and use them as all around personal/vehicle/animal defense loads and call it good.







I figure if these hard cast 148 grain hard cast flat points are good enough to carry against large animals, they might work for my needs.





I will continue to use my .22s for ground squirrel safaris and such.





Alukbans J Frame with the red dot looks like it would be a blast for small game hunting BTW.


Cheers

Which is why, by the late 1990s, I was carrying only full sized handguns in serious manstopping calibers. Haven't gone back to anything less, other than on super rare occasions where I carry a pocket auto only (.32 or .380 ACP), such as when I have a doctor's appointment.

That said, a .22 (as was my point earlier) can actually be sufficient in most self-defense situations.

PS Actually, the talisman outlook to carrying a handgun has nothing to do with what you've stated. It's the viewpoint that merely carrying a gun will be sufficient in all cases to keep you safe, even absent any practice or preplanning for making it maximally effective in the way it's brought into action. In other wards, it's depended on almost like it was a lucky charm.

Before relying on the 22 for personal protection, I'd pony up for at least a box of 50, of 9mm, 40, 45, 357 etc, in a sensible defense load, and carry that.

I generally like to keep a couple hundred 'carry' rounds available. For now that is Hornady Critical Duty 9mm 135gr +P. I usually change that ammo out after a couple years, but in thin times, it can be fine for many years.

Then I can fall back on ball, or reloads if things really get bad, and stay that way for extended period of time.

Several .22LR are already carried by relatives and acquaintances..It surely wouldn't be my choice but a 6" semi auto could work.

My oldest daughter thinks she is well armed for most things with a 4" 9-shot .22LR Taurus loaded with Velociters. So does her ex-hubby. Some wives have thm as well. One guy I have known for 30 years or so only has a SS 4" Rossi, he uses it for way bigger stuff than I would.

A buddies wife just bought a .22lr LCP and loves it.

One hunting buddy who was a government trapper and predator control agent for over forty years uses a K-22 6inch except for treed bears and cougars.

Me? If I carry a rimfire revolver afield for general use it is a .22 Mag, for sage rats, my M-63 gets the duty.. I would have little doubt it would serve for defense though not my first choice. I do carry .22LR semis. Usually a .22/45 with a scope or red dot.

I have bigger weapons for defensive use.

Always love to read your posts - the info is solid and I know comes from real-world experience... Thanks for all that..

Thanks MacKay.. Redneck said what I wanted to say.. Keep with us.. Sure enjoy your posts..

I have tendency to listen to whatever Sagebrush has to say. I hope I never get to old to learn something new.

No. I read .22 handguns are often used by professional assassins. One of the preferred guns was Beretta Model 70 with high quality subsonic ammo. This would make sense because they are the ones controlling the events not the poor victim.
I use 9x19 for defense use. It is loaded with 124gr JHP ammo unless I am in the wilderness then 147gr flat nose fmjs are carried. Thankfully there is no ammo shortage, therefore, I do not have to pick Kiddo .22 for defensive carry. If you are unfortunate enough to rely on .22LR at least choose target grade ammo that way you will reduce chances of having dud(s).

I'd say few possess the skills of Mordechai Rachamim. I'll stick to my .45 (and I still wouldn't take on guys with AK's and RPG's)

Don't underestimate a 22 LR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv7IfL1TeqI&ab_channel=LuckyGunnerAmmo

If I had to do it over my choice would be .40S&W. It can be made into gun almost as small as 9x19, ammo less expensive than .45ACP and no confusion picking the right load it being 180gr JHP at 1050+/-50fps.

My wife carries same.

Killed many critters with .22 lr handguns and rifles. I've seen most everything I've shot with a cci stinger die nearly instantly if shot was placed well. Never shot a man, and hope I never have to. I believe a .22 placed center of breast pockets would kill no problem. I've carried a .22, a .45 acp, 9mm, .38 special , 32 S&W , .380 acp. I've settled in with a .380 I really like. Probably carry it til I'm dead & buried.

A person with your level of marksmanship is very rare, I only wish my eyes were still sharp enough to shoot that well. I don’t think I’ve seen off hand groups that good out of a 2” J frame. Lordy....

Many years ago, a good friend of mine who was a longtime Los Angeles Sheriff's Dept. Homicide detective told me, "Hope is a very poor survival plan." Sounded wise to me then; still does.

L.W.

You had better listen to Mackay.. Been there done that.. I have shot lots of stuff with a .22 also, but not under stress ..

Thanks for your kind words, JB. But, I too have reached the age where some days are better than others. Of course, it’s the better days which result in photos.

When I wander further than just the woods around the house, the little guys stay home and larger guys go along,

A 60-4 is the best of the 60’s IMO, I like the regular non magnum J, a little shorter frame IIRC.

I need a fiber optic front sight on my 617-6, no one I trust locally to install it.

I toted a NAA 22 mag for several years. I still do from time to time depending on what im wearing. I moved up to a smith 360 357 that rides in my front pocket every day. I forget its there most of the time. When I roam the woods the 357 is in the pocket and on my hip may be a buckmark or a SBH or a glock 20 or a governor. Just depends where im going and what I plan on doing. The buckmark is my latest acquisition and I don't know how I've gone so long without one. It's the 4" micro bull.

I had a Browning Buckmark in the middle 1980s (it had a gold trigger). Like so many guns I've sold, I regret selling it some time in the 1990s.

Today, you'd be mugged for your Diamondback...

Assassins use a .22 because they usually walk up behind someone and place the muzzle in the base of the skull. In that case, a hot primer with no bullet may even work. 😊

since i’m diurnal, not in a uniform, and away from mlk boulevards and brown bear neighborhoods, a 22lr is a most-often ccw. because it is easy, soft and cheap to practice with alot i can consistently hit with it, strong-, weak- and off-hand. there is no proximity fuse shrapnel or concussive shock wave from a missed centerfire caliber. ruger sr22, lcr 22lr and a naa bugout1 22lr are favorites. rapid fire (kinda with the naa) shots into center mass target at lawful defense distances should serve my humble needs.

As I said, I carry the 43c when I run and sometimes if I'm making a quick trip to town. I've seen what a 22 can and will do. For it's intended purpose, running or wearing clothes not suitable to carry a G19, I'd rather have the 43c than nothing and I'm not relying on just showing a gun to get me by, I can and will make good use of it if needed. I also have a few 642's and tried them but they weigh more than the 43c and it's just enough to keep pulling on my shorts.


But any other time I'm carrying a G19. A determined attacker is a thing but I'm a determined survivor...

It’s true that the weight of the stainless steel parts in an otherwise aluminum 642 can lead to an indecent exposure. However, a titanium cylinder Three-Forty-Something is not much heavier than the 43c. This one’s a 342, and gets carried often when away from home during the hot, humid Southern Summertime:



It carries in the same holsters as the 43c, including Galco’s Classic Lite lightweight shoulder rig, perfect when wearing just a thin Hawaiian shirt and swimming shorts.

Ya I had one of those too for a short time. Gotta count the ammo and it’s still heavier. Maybe it’s more a matter of comfort, not having to adjust anything running down the road. And to be clear, I’m not wearing a belt but gym shorts when I run. Carry the 43c in a modified kydex holster. I do use a HPG kit bag when I run over 10 miles. Then I still go as light as I can.

I'm not pushing it as the best for SD but I've been shooting a 1 7/8" lcr in .22 lr for a couple of years and started shooting a 3" lcrx in .22 lr earlier this year. The speed and accuracy of 8 rounds out of them makes me shake my head every time I shoot. I shoot +P 38's in a 1 7/8" lcr (slightly heavier .357 model) about as well but not nearly as quick.

8 rounds in the chest would be a mess. Even with speed strips reloads take a while though.....

My son has a pre-lock 342, he let’s me shoot it, if I’m good. Great little snub

My wife & I practice with a Ruger LCR 22 but we carry LCR 38. I'm sure I'll have enough 38 rounds for the rest of my life.

Pretty close to the subject, and I think a good read:

http://straightforwardinacrookedworld.blogspot.com/2012/10/dark-arts-for-good-guys-22-lr-pistol.html

I often carry either my NAA in 22 mag or a Beretta Bobcat when taking a walk.

Yessir, it certainly is.

9mm +P is as small as i will go. The P365 fills the bill

This thread makes me think that I "need" a Ruger LCP-22.

Make it an LCP II. You can thank me later.

Reads like the intro to a book.

Fiction sells...

Pack your little .22 for world travel, if you don't pack anything else?

I've wanted one since I heard they were going to be made. Then I heard about the problematic safety.

Fun thread.
.22s do strange things once they enter the body, bouncing off ribs and doing more damage in the chest cavity than would be expected.

A friend and sometimes hunting buddy of mine got shot behind a bar one night with a pocket 22, in the forearm as his arm was somewhat extended in front of him. The bullet entered near the bone on the underside, about half-way between wrist and elbow, traveled under the skin around just over half the radius of the forearm along some of its length, and exited the top some inches below the elbow. He was really drunk, and it didn't bleed much. 22s do strange things.

. . . or if you ever decide to go live in Mexico and want to own a gun. Here is the one quote that guts the rest: "I can say for me it has been a choice at times and it is never my first choice. . . ."

All the .22 are LCP II--sorry I wasn't more specific.

What's wrong with the safety?
If it's the same trigger as the regular, no reason to use the safety.

Numerous reviews tell of how the safety is inadvertently bumped on while shooting.

Seems it is poorly placed, and easily bumped

It shouldn't even have a manual safety.

That's my thoughts at all. I thought the problem might be that it was too small to easily disengage it. That wouldn't be a problem for me, as I wouldn't use it.

The safety on mine is very stiff. Can’t imagine it getting bumped on or off by accident.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10495456/aggressive-dolphin-attacks-on-rise/

I find the LCP 22 thumb safety too easy to disengage.

It is push forward to disengage and so can easily be done without intending to do so as it is pulled out of a pocket or bag.

And I haven't heard a logical reason yet as to why it does.

I like that term "talisman gun". Some people have taken offense when I referred to their carry gun as a comfort animal. Great info MS, hopefully some will read it and heed it.


mike r

This is really a burning question and we need a dophinitive answer NOW. Be Well, RZ.

I’ve killed a lot of butchering cattle with a 22lr. Ammunition is the key, the 36 grain hollow points that come in the bulk packs are not good. CCI velocitors are the best I’ve used in 22lr. Someone brought and 22 magnum one time and that worked excellent on beef but we blood shot some jowls on some hogs so went back to 22lr on hogs. If I was going to carry for self defense I would try to get me some CCI velocitors or go 22 magnum.
I know in the heat of the moment it changes things but a short range shot to the brain would be lights out if you can make the shot under pressure, that’s why I carry a 9mm.

FWIW, and I cannot swear to it, but I believe the author is legitimately in the personal security business.

I carry a 22lr LCR daily.

I often work in S Tacoma and the area and while it's not been a good neighborhood in the 15 years I've lived out here, it has gone in the schitter the last couple years. We've had multiple shootings, gang related and random, along with a lot of property crime and an exploding homeless scene.

I carry the 22 for several reasons.

I prefer a revolver for the way I carry and the 22 LCR gives me 8 shots, is very light, and I know I can hit things with it. While a 22lr is certainly not ideal, a 40gr RN 22 bullet penetrates very well. I'm confident I can dump 8 in a reasonably small target very quickly.

I've thought about going to a 6 shot 327 Fed LCR.

Hahah. I can't read the subject line without giggling a little.

I certainly respect mackays opinion however a 22 hp into the chest is nothing to sneeze about, it porpoisely will produce another blowhole. My original point was if we run out of 9 and 45 we might consider the 22. I know 3 whom are dead by rifle and 2 pistols... The one determined attaker took a magazine in the chest and did not make it much past the front door. The other shot in chest bullet traveled north. The rifle I knew the kids but never learned autopsy results.

Out of a rifle, .22 Long Rifle hits, at room distances, about like 5.56 at 400 yards, which is nothing to sneeze at.

I would be willing to try out Walther TPH if something in more powerful caliber was not available. Newer US made would be preferred for deep concealment because it is made of more oxidation resistant stainless steel. The advantages here would be thinness, small size and light weight.

I sometimes carry a little scadnium S&W 22 mag 7 shot 2" barrel. I try to get my wife to take it when she walks with our kids and dog and the neighbors pit bulls are running loose. She rarely carries it even after one of the neighbors dogs took our dog down by throat right in front of our kids.

I finished off a coyote with the little 22 mag in the field across from our house before they started building homes there. A hear shot with the speer gold dot load did the trick.

In my limited testing the speer gold dot is the best short barrel 22 mag load. I couldn't get the Hornady ftx to really expand from the 2" barrel. Which is too bad because I've got about 1500 Hornady 45g ftx rounds. I might just sell them and replace them with the speer. A local store still has a few cases of the speer load but they are $15/50. Not a bad price in today's market but I used to get them for $11.

Bb