Would it be safe for someone to keep a CPP loaded with +P for PD?

Anyone fired +P in one or know?

If you're afraid that it's going to blow up, don't be.

I figured that gun is stronger than other new lightweight revolvers that might not be rated for +P.

Thanks. Hopefully the lady who owns it will never have to use it, but standard 38 ammo is relatively weak IMO, and +P is about like a 9mm...

They are not a +P rated gun. I would stick with standard velocity ammo in them. Standard velocity 38 Spec. is indeed, weak. That's why a lot of folks have 357's.

I have a few and they only get fed light rounds.

148 gr. hard cast full wadcutters at normal velocity is a good option for a non +P load. I gave my mom a S&W M64 stoked with Buffalo Bore 150 gr. hard cast full wadcutters at 850 fps for her house gun. It's a light recoiling load that will cut a .35 hole through and out the backside of any nefarious character that gets in front of the gun.

I would stay with NON +P. 158g SWC should work well.

And the winner is...

I use a load from Underwood that is pretty much the same. 150 grain full wadcutter that is advertised at 1000 fps. I'm sure it doesn't make that speed out of a 2 inch J frame, but I have a great deal of confidence in that load.

there is a reason they invented the 38/44 because of heavy loads.]

Of course. They're all steel of high quality manufacture. It only became an issue whether revolvers could handle +P when they first introduced aluminum frame revolvers. These came with a warning not to use it. There was never a question whether steel framed .38 Special revolvers of the quality level of a Colt were safe for +P.

Now, the question of whether it will accelerate wear is a different one. Sure it will. A regular diet of +P will shorten the service life or a Detective Special or Police Positive by a noticeable degree, but just keeping it loaded with it for self-defense is no problem. It's certainly not going to explode the gun if you needed to fire it in self-defense. Won't even damage it.

Some people worry more about the gun than their lives.

I like these very much too. I keep 158gr SWC-HP's loaded in my M&P, but the Underwood wadcutters are my reloads in Safariland speedloaders. Soft lead hollowpoints grip and hang on the back of the cylinder, making reloading more fumbly. The hard flat nosed wadcutters are smooth and slick, and they find the chambers much more quickly and easily.

This is for an elderly lady........and no doubt a steel frame is stronger than aluminum. Not worried about wear, as it worst case it would be one cylinder fired, and likely less. I believe it's a longer barrel, looks like a 5" so not a snub.

Had to find any HP ammo in 38 lately, but the new Federal Punch looked good in a gel test ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdPUG7AAFjQ&t=202s

No doubt those heavy hard cast will penetrate.......that is good, I just think with expansion is better, for a 2-legged thug.

Great feedback everyone, appreciate it.

Depends when it was made. If made after Colt undertook improved metallurgy/heat treating then it'll certainly take the punishment, for a short while until things start to get a little wobbly. What would be more of a concern to me would be the sharp recoil of +P loads in such a small revolver. Not pleasant for a newbie/elderly?/lady shooter to get familiar with the gun by shooting it a few times - no point in introducing a serious flinch that could be ruinous in a tense situation.

My solution for this conundrum has been to load dead soft hollow base wadcutters backwards with "standard" powder charges. Accuracy, at least in my experience, suffers, but still plenty good enough to hit a depridator from across the room - and there's no denying that big hollow cavity opens up quickly and, I suspect, tears off pieces of the thin skirt as it expands into the target creating collateral damage to boot.

Here's the story on Colt D frames and +P ammunition.

When the .38-44 High Speed cartridge came out in 1930, Colt immediately certified ALL of their .38 Special revolvers for that cartridge. The .38-44 has higher pressure than modern +P.

Skip forward an additional 30+ years when SAAMI created an actual spec for +P, Colt finally put it in their D frame manuals. Pick up a D frame manual from say the 1970's and it will tell you to limit +P ammunition to 2,500 rounds.

The frame steel on a D frame Colt is a bit on the soft side, and a steady diet of thousands of +P's will stretch a steel frame, and crack an aluminum frame.


With all that said, I still wouldn't recommend +P's for a little old lady. In small revolvers +P's are abusive to shoot, and after she takes the first shot, she won't be much interested in shooting all day long. Stick to lighter stuff, and even for defense a moderate standard pressure .38 Special will be just fine for home defense. Remember, once the first shot is fired; there is no additional paperwork for additional shots.

Unless the perp is wearing body armor, wadcutter target loads have low recoil and are very nasty on flesh. Usually tumble.

My dad was having a hard time shooting his .38 because recoil was hurting his hand. I got him some target wadcutters, and turned something non-shootable into something shootable. Made a big difference for him.

They are pretty slow, though. I think possibly too slow, but about the best I could do at that time. The hot wadcutters from Underwood or Buffalo Bore are serious stuff, and maybe hotter than you need. I think an in-between would be just right. 750 or so fps would give you sufficient penetration without the hand stinging recoil. A lot better than 600 fps from a regular target wadcutter. I finally found that such a load was available from Double Tap. Though I'm sure none are actually available right now...

Back when I worked the gun counter, I had the perfect solution for women who complained that the gun "stung" their hand. It worked every time. I'd ask if they had any children, and they invariably said "yes". Then I'd say "I'm sure your children were perfect but maybe once you had to spank them". They'd laugh and say "yes". Then I'd continue "remember how it stung your hand a little but hurt them a lot more?". Again, they'd answer "yes". Then I'd finish with "the gun is the same thing. It'll sting your hand a little but it'll hurt the bad guy a LOT more." There'd be a knowing smile on their face and they'd never complain about the recoil again.

I have overloaded Colt Police Positives many times.
I have reamed one out to 357 mag chambers.
None have ever shot loose.
I have blown some up, but that was way past 357 mag loads.

Good points and info by all. Thanks for video TRH.

Thanks all.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with plain jane 38sp as a defensive round for most civilians. wadcutters are great.

Wadcutters seated backwards are even better.

I think that's been debunked by actual testing. Too much expansion. More effective in the correct orientation, which gives good, but not exaggerated, expansion, just due to being soft lead.

Buffalo Bore makes good .38 defense load in both regular and high test. I’d get some of those when you can. Regular should be fine. Bullet shape matters more than velocity IMO. Old roundnose .38s were pretty poor stoppers, but FN and good hollerpoints make a better impression.

Years ago, a fleeing jackhole was shot in the azz by the Howard County, MD police with standard .38 RNs. He didn’t even realize he’d been shot.

Yeah, that's another of those old wives tales that just needs to go away. Turn it the right way, you'll get pretty darned good penetration.

Really ? The Brits found it worked well on the Wogs.

455 Webley Mk III: Introduced in 1898. The famous "Manstopper" bullet intended for police, civilian and colonial use. Essentially, the Mk III was a 218 grain lead "hollowpoint" design, propelled by cordite. The cylindrical bullet had hemispherical hollows at each end—one to seal the barrel, the other to deform on impact. This bullet was soon prohibited for use by the military because it was not compliant with the Hague Convention of 1899. The Mark III was withdrawn from service in 1900 and the Mark II was reintroduced.

The problem with reversing the wadcutter is that (due to being soft lead) it expands into a disk on impact, and only penetrates a few inches.

Although they appear similar, they are very different... There's more than just "design".

Consider first, the .455 Mk III was designed from the get-go to be a hollow point bullet. The .38 Wadcutter wasn't. The .38 wadcutter uses almost pure lead so it deforms easily during the swaging process. The .455 is swaged, but they had to consider terminal performance; so I'd be willing to bet the metallurgy of the .455 is a bit different.

The hollow base cavity wasn't designed with bullet expansion in mind.

Now I have never seen ballistic gelatin tests of the Mk III (although I would love to, and I'm talking period load, not someone's recreation), but I have seen such tests of a backwards wadcutter, and it's less than impressive in penetration. What's more, when it encounters heavy clothing the cavity tends to collapse so you get no expansion...kinda defeating the whole purpose.

Good read:

http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=introduction-to-455-cartridges

HP/HB manstopper was swaged from pure lead.

Wog home invaders don't wear heavy clothing, just a hoodie and sweat pants. Neither would slow a flipped WC. Just skip head shots.

The 455 choices: