Title really says most of what I am curious about. Will be buying my first CF pistol and will be using it for carrying. Curious if a beginner would be better served with a compact vs a sub-compact for a first purchase?

One other question, thumb safety vs none? I can see rationale behind either option, but lean more towards no thumb safety. I'm willing to hear arguments from both sides.

In and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

What you shoot well, that is small enough that you'll actually carry it.

It's the golden age of CCW selection. Small Glocks, Shield+, Hellcat, P365.

If those are to small, try G19, M&P compact sized.

You'd likely be best served with one of the representatives of the most recent advances in concealed carry 9mm handguns, i.e., the slim, subcompact, staggered magazine, striker fired auto pistols, examples of which would be the M&P Shield Plus or the Sig P-365. This type of handgun is extremely lightweight, concealable, shootable, comfortable to carry all day, and high capacity. They represent the current apex in concealed carry handguns.

You will be best served not choosing a thumb safety variant of any of this class if handgun, since even experts have been known to forget to deactivate them during the exigency of a life and death encounter. Just learn proper trigger handling safety, i.e., keep your finger out of the trigger guard till ready, or nearly ready, to shoot.

Get one with the night sight option.

I'm a good sized ol'boy and can hide my Mossberg mc2c easily. Whatever's big enough to shoot well and easy to hide is what you should pick. Oh? At least 9 mm please.

Just because a gun has a safety, doesn't mean you have to use it. If you're uncomfortable without one, buy a gun with one and then as you get more comfortable with the gun, don't use it anymore.

I've got em with and without safety. If I were carrying it I'd say no saftey

Then you introduce the possibility of it getting activated unintentionally. No thanks. I'm either going to carry a gun with a thumb safety, and then train to ALWAYS use it, or carry one that doesn't have one at all.

As mentioned by others, pick the gun you will actually want to carry. The gun size will matter some but your clothing choices will matter more. If your primary clothing choices are Spandex or sweats your choices will be more limited than if your primary wear is jeans with a belt and loose fitting shirts or a suit.

First decide if you want to fit the gun to your clothes or fit your clothes to the gun. Carry method is part of this as one needs to decide if they are going to carry inside waistband, outside waistband, pocket, or shoulder holster. Decide this and then decide on the gun size.

I fit my clothes to the gun which easily allows me to carry standard sized guns using an IWB holster. This means I buy pants/shorts a couple inches larger than normal, use a good rigid belt, and a holster that distributes weight over as large of an area as is comfortable. For shirts my picks are much the same as I buy shirts that can easily be "bloused" rather than tight fitting. This has generally meant buying my regular size in Tall or the next size up.

I seldom carry a compact or subcompact though I do have such firearms. When have to carry such guns, I carry the largest I can as that gives me enough room to get all my fingers on the grip, not just two. Most of the time it is a Kahr CW 9 or an Officer size 1911 but I have recently bought a Taurus GX4 to get a few more rounds on board.

Except for the 1911s, my carry guns do not have safeties. I rely on the gun's inherent safeties, holster design, and leaving the gun in the holster except when needed to cover the safety aspect. Guns rarely go off unless being handled so keeping the hands off except as necessary seems to be the best safety feature.

I went the small route once upon a time. I have switched my thinking and now carry as big as I can conceal. Reason being at some point you may have to do more than carry it, you may have to use it. I would rather fight with a bigger gun than a really small one.

Choosing a good holster and belt is as important as the weapon. Happily they are a bit less expensive. Then you come to the clothing issue, tight makes it hard to conceal.

Second I suggest you go to a range where you can rent several different ones, find which you can shoot well.

I'm in the subcompact/no safety camp, have been carrying CW9 for years, if I were to replace it, I'm sure I would switch to a 365 of some sort or (perhaps) a Shield.

Practice, practice, practice.

You are not ready for a pistol optimized for concealed carry. It is a huge mistake to buy something smaller than a Glock 19 (that size range) as your first centerfire pistol. You need to learn to shoot first.
Don't get hung up on mag capacity, optics or any of that other man-boy stuff. Get a M&P9 4" barrel, Glock 19, or equivalent. Spend your money on ammo and range time. Manual safety is a non-issue and you'll discover why with a little range time.

You can easily conceal carry a G19-size pistol when you are ready. You can post about holsters next.

You might look into some of the newer micro style that are not exactly micro. They are more like a stretched micro.

I'm talking about pistols in the size range of the Sig P365XL, Glock 43X, Glock 48.

These guns or similar offer a full hand grip, much nicer to control.

I've noted that most of the true micro 9's only have a 2-finger or 2 1/2-finger grip length. So the makers all offer extended magazines to compensate. Unless pocket carry is the goal, might as well get a pistol that has a little longer grip like those I mentioned above. The longer grip also facilitates easier magazine changes.

I carry guns without safeties also. I was merely replying to his direct concern where it seemed like he didn't quite feel safe without a safety.

I will never disagree with a Glock 19 as a concealed carry choice.

That said, the M&P Shield Plus (with the 13 round mag inserted) shoots and handles just about as well, and conceals even a little better. It only falls two rounds shy of the same magazine capacity as the Glock 19 with a flush mag. You can definitely get all three fingers comfortably on the grip of the M&P Shield Plus when the 13 round mag is inserted, illustration below.

Thank you everyone for the advice/conversation. I am definitely leaning towards no thumb safety and the discussion here has only strengthened that point of view.

Regarding size, the one I was most considering before handling it on Sunday, only allows for a 2.5 finger grip. That said, for a few bucks they do offer magazine extensions that I am sure would allow for a full grip. It's still not out of the running, but does mean I'll likely handle a few more before purchasing.

Does it really matter between a G26, G19 or commander length 1911 or whatever when none will be comfortable for all day every day carry without a good belt and a good holster.

I agree with this completely.
I have carried quite a few guns and after running drills and shooting matches with the smaller guns, it's readily apparent that I shoot a full size or compact like the G19 better than the 43 or even the Shield. There are times when all I can carry is a J frame but I do so knowing the limitations of what I can do with one and it's better than nothing. Some of the slimmer high capacity guns like the 43x seem to blur the lines but my hands work better with a fuller grip. The 365, Shield and others just don't fit me, I can shoot them okay but under pressure and time, the G19 is a lot quicker and smoother.

On the shootability score, I cannot distinguish between a Glock 19 and a Shield Plus, so long as that 13 round mag is inserted in the well of the Shield Plus, as illustrated in my post above. It makes the grip length about equal to that on the Glock 19, and only surrenders two rounds in capacity to it, while offering a slimmer and more concealable package. It's a bit more of a natural pointer than the Glock 19, too. But I will never criticize the choice of a Glock 19 as a concealed carry piece. It set the standard for the Goldilocks ideal in that department in the opinions of many, and offers the advantage of being able to accept Glock magazines from 15 rounds all the way up to 32 rounds.

I like this approach, although I will add a plug for the P365 platform because of its modularity. The fire control unit is the same for the regular P365, the P365 X and the P365 XL (and even the new P365-380). The XL gives you about the size of a Glock 19, with a longer barrel and slide than the subcompact P365 or the hybrid P365 X. If the gun is going to be concealed inside the waistband, the length of the slide is not a drawback for concealment. It is the grip area that could cause the printing problem. If that was considered a problem, you could buy a small grip module used in the standard P365 for $40 and put it on the XL. Of course, you also could go the other way and buy a standard P365 with the shorter barrel and add an XL grip frame if you prefer the shorter slide/barrel but a larger grip. (The X model already would have the XL grip.) Also note that the X and XL models are cut for optics if you ever wanted to go there. At this writing, they do not offer the standard P365 with an optics cut. Confused yet? Anyway, options are good to have.

If you want a bit more of a grip, add a Pearce extension on the mag. It usually allows one more round plus a place for your pinkie finger.

I think in general people prioritize concealability way too highly and shootability too lowly. Comfort is a little stickier wicket, but after you find the right shootable gun you should be able to come up with a comfortable enough way to carry it.

If I am tasked to defend my life or my family's life, I want the pistol I shoot the best, not the one that carries the easiest.

You can pistol whip with a polymer gun?

😂😂

Go to a gun store and handle a couple.

I like the p365 series.

Have em all. P365. P365x and p365xl.

IMO the p365x is the sweet spot. Shorter slide and longer grip.

I put a xl grip on my p365 before the x’s came out.

Plus there the a lot of Pinky extensions for the different p365 mags. Even a +2 from magguts.

Keep hoping kahr will come out with something new.

I like the cw9. But not the 7 or 8 rd mags.

Don't get hung up on semantics. About the time you figure it out, next year's models will be out and the ad terminology will have changed again. Just find something that works for your circumstances a d stick with it.

Wish someone would come up with more capacity Glock 43 mags that are somewhat staggered.

That's why I went 43X and 15-round Shield Arms magazines that fit flush to the grip.

Everything is a compromise, but I'm satisfied with the route I chose.

the size I settled on was a Glock 48 and a S&W Shield Plus.

This^^^x100. It is all about commitment. If you are carrying to save your life and are not willing to train religiously you are fooling yourself. Learning to shoot accurately takes training and practice as does shooting quickly, learning target discrimination and becoming safe and consistent in gun handling. This is a process made easier utilizing a gun purpose built to be reliable and win gunfights. Small and light is a priority only to those those that seek a comfort animal more than a fighting tool.

Competence comes only via training and practice. Always wear your gun, practice frequently and embrace dryfire like it was free money.

ymmv


mike r

This................many small guns are neither easy to shoot accurately, or they are just too uncomfortable to shoot to be comfortable with if needed.

I can conceal just about anything, so shoot-ability is my prime consideration with size in either 9mm or 45 ACP.

As mentioned above by Goalie, a G-19 or a S&W M&P Compact is about ideal.

YMMV

MM

My personal daily carry guns are service sized, anything from a K-frame S&W revolver, a Combat Commander, a Glock 19, etc., but I've been carrying concealed since I was 19 years old. It's old hat for me. I think a great place for someone to start for the first time carrying concealed would be something in the class of an M&P Shield Plus with the 13 round mag inserted. We're not talking a Ruger LCP here. It shoots pretty similarly to a full sized service handgun, and doesn't give up very much to one, either, in terms of capabilities.

This is his first centerfire pistol. Not just the first concealed carry option. I think we all could agree it’s easier to shoot a full size or at least the G19 sized gun better than subs. He needs to shoot a lot.

Glock 19, best all around pistol, period.

while i agree with THE great waputi i carry a glock 48 daily due to the slim line single stack design, my G19 is my go to hell gun if that day ever happens

Couple the 48 with a Shield Arms 15 round mag and you are ready to go.

Where do you sign up for the notifications so I can get on the list? I’d love to know when “go to hell day” is gonna be so I can make plans.

Back when I was selling guns, the biggest headache I had was people who wanted the smallest gun possible but then wanted to add pinkie extensions, etc., onto it to make it easier to shoot. I always asked them why not buy a bigger gun but they had it in their head that a small gun with an extension was smaller than a bigger gun without one, even though it wasn't.

Those who have some experience know you are right. Those who don't keep advocating man-boy guns with extended magazines. Interesting mix on this forum.

First time concealed carriers are rarely pleased with service sized handguns, and tend to give up carrying them pretty fast. There's a happy medium, however, between one of those, and a pipsqueak gun, and nowadays these happy medium guns don't give very much up at all to the service sized guns in terms of handling and performance. I'm speaking of the class of handgun represented by such models as the S&W Shield Plus, the Sig P-365, the Springfield Armory Hellcat, etc..

I find that strange too. My guess is that there are a lot of new pistol owners that love to pretend but don't actually shoot much and they carry even less. I understand the lack of shooting as until recently ammo was impossible to find. As far as carrying, it would be interesting to track the number of CHL applications in non-constitutional carry states and see if they followed the NICS check surge.

Here in SW Idaho I see mostly new shooters at the range I frequent. All 9mm. Most shoot half a box and leave, but that may change as 9mm ammo has been flooding in lately with prices dipping below $20/50. BTW, most of the pistols look pretty small. Only geezers shoot 1911s and revolvers of any kind.

Interesting, damn I gots one of those man-boy guns. Why, because I can shoot it well, the extension adds 2 rounds, it allows the POS to be gripped and drawn to a natural point just like my 1911. So why not carry my 1911? Well it’s a pre 2 Kimber (1996) I don’t want to lose. And yes if you have to use it, it’s going to be gone to a police locker possibly forever where every POS fat fingered azzhole can fugg with it. Now this POS can be replaced for ~500.00 bucks so I don’t give a fugg if it’s gone or not, just go buy a new one.



Man-boy gun my ass.

That’s why I have 2 G19’s and 2 DW Vigil’s and 2 J frames.

BTW, how much smaller is that than a G19?

Hard to beat a Glock 19 or one of the Sig P365 series.

Sig P365
S&W Shield
Springfield Hellcat
S&W M&P 2.0 Compact
Sig P320 Compact
FN 509 Compact
Kahr P9
Springfield XD-S
Walther PPQ
CZ P-10

I threw this list of 10 together off the top of my head and in trying to compare directly with Glock the list sticks to polymer 9mm pistols. It doesn’t contain anything 1911-like, nothing with a steel or alloy frame, or any revolvers. There are two pistols in the Campfire threads today I would own before a Glock, Hawk’s Ronin and Idaho’s Kimber Micro Nine – and I don’t particularly like Kimber. The list doesn’t include variants or firearms from manufacturers that I acknowledge are quality that I just don’t like. The list also doesn’t include variants such as the three versions of the P365 I would own before a Glock. By the time all this was sorted out Glock probably wouldn’t make my top 50.

Ohhh damn no sub 700.00 buck P365 that doesn’t have the man-boy pinky extension. Damn can’t buy no man-boy gun. By the way my first center fire was a 41 mag.

I've been lugging a Glock 23 for almost 20 years. I don't feel marginalized.

My experience is this.

I started out concerned about concealability & ease of carry. I got a little pocket pistol (S&W Bodyguard .380 6+1) that I took everywhere. It was easy to conceal and a breeze to carry and if I were involved in a close-in mugging it’d be fine; point & click as they say.

But then the riots came and I wanted more power, capacity, and reach. I was still pretty concerned about conceal- & carry-ability so I opted for a Gen 4 Glock 26 9mm sub-compact 10+1. I replaced the factory sights w/ a steel Trijicon 3-dot model & installed Talon grips. Carries wonderfully and, in spite of the uncomfortable “pinky hang” I shoot it quite well.

That pinky hang bugged me and I wanted a back up about the time a pal here offered me a Taurus G3C (C is for compact) which is nearly identical size-wise to the G26 but has a longer textured grip that fits my hand better. It is inexpensive so I didn’t trust it but have run about 600 rounds of all different ammo including HP & steel case stuff without so much as a hiccup. It takes Glock sights so I got a set of truglo Hackathorns and while the triggers suck on these it’s reliable and I shoot it as well as the G26. No Talon grips necessary as the grip panels serve their purpose so beautifully.

I’d still like more capacity and I’m realizing that with a good belt and holster carry- & conceal-ability aren’t as big as n issue as I’d thought. I’ve also been thinking about an optic so I just got a Glock 19 clone with elevated back-up sights that’ll cowitness with an RMR for which it’s cut. I ordered a higher end holster that’ll accommodate the set up and am shopping RMRs.

Of course I’ve yet to sell a handgun probably won’t ever but the evolution has been fun. Eventually I’ll likely sell the S&W and the G26 but who knows.

One thing I know is that while carry- and conceal-ability are big a good draw requires a good grip from from the holster so texture and fit to your hand matter more than I realized early on. Obviously YMMV particularly by hand size, but those micro-9mms that are all the rage like the P365 just don’t work well for me.

Good luck in your shopping!

Ps- the only weapon listed above that has a safety is the Taurus. Trigger & muzzle control are most important and worrying about a safety in the heat of battle is unnecessary. Skip em

Inexperienced shooter will be better served with a compact handgun. I suggest Walther PDP with 4 inch barrel. This weapon combines excellent ergonomics, excellent trigger, sights plus holosight compatibility. That is one could want in modern beginner handgun. It is made in Germany, therefore, each gun is test fired at a proof house.

There are plenty of decent guns out there but it is undeniable that no handgun in history has come close to 9mm Glocks for proven reliability. For me reliability is job one, all other factors follow.

mike r

IIRC my bill of sale I came across a little while back is from 1992. That’s before some on here were born and many others still on the sugartit. Not much bad advice given so far. I’ll throw in with the group pushing for a G19 size category. Don’t skimp on grip when you’re learning to shoot. Get all 4 fingers involved without a mag extension. I’ll also agree on the belt and holster advise. You can’t get too good a belt. Bullshidebelts.com has a good selection of 3/16” and 1/4” thick belts 1 1/2” and 1 3/4” wide. For outside belt carry the Blackhawk Serpa is fine. Inside belt I like an open top Galco rough side out.

Seems 9mm is pretty much unanimous, no surprise. As you become accustomed to handguns you will want more. As much trash talk as the .40 S&W gets it’s still very controllable and has served well. Doesn’t hurt to have multiple chamberings with supply/demand issues probably here to stay on an infrequent possibly frequent basis.

Another comment to take to heart; take shootability over a little more concealability. As you become accustomed to carrying with a good holster and belt you will most likely begin to dress to the gun. With carry time you’ll find it easier than you might have first expected to conceal a 4” barrel 4 finger grip handgun. Good fortune on your decisions.

Ill post it up here when the day comes

I find myself carrying my Glock 19 more than anything else by a wide margin. It’s simple, reliable, accurate, has plenty of power, and it’s very shootable. It’s also not difficult to conceal. However, I am considering buying a Sig 365X. I think it would check the same boxes and be slightly more concealable, but then again I might not. My Glock is very familiar to me, which I believe is a strong asset for a carry gun. Every great once in a while I carry a Ruger LCP because my clothing dictates pocket carry.

my first ccw was a taurus 85, 38sp, 5-shot, steel, 2” revolver bought gently used in south florida in 1985 before permits were a thing. i replaced the slim wooden grips with pachmayr rubber grips, bought a couple of speedloaders and loaded it with 158gr fmj ball ammo. its display with intent saw me through one riot safely when my car was mobbed. i still have it though now carry a s&w 642 38sp airweight snubbie loaded with wadcutters.

a 38sp revolver is safe, easy and reliable. if 5-6 shots won’t solve my problems then i’ve made some seriously poor decisions on when/where i go, what i do and who i meet, or i need a long gun.

Let's hear the full story of the mob surrounding your car and how you got them to back off with the display of a snubby .38.