I recently bought a 4" python, one of the new ones. The plan was to shoot pistols more and since I've been casting again and now powder coating I thought I'd run a bunch of 148g wad cutters down the target range. However, after getting the python I found that the single action part of the trigger sucks. Mine is really quite bad, easily the worst of all my revolvers.

I love the looks of the python so I was thinking of sending it in for s trigger job but then I thought maybe I'll just keep it new and stash it away and buy another 4" 357 to practice with and carry afield. I used to have a 7 shot gp100 327 fed that I really liked so I looked at one of those today in 357.

With the price of the rugers now I can pretty much buy a 686 for the same price. I've never had a 686 but I have a 44 mtn gun a 45 lc mtn gun and a 5" classic 29 in 44 mag and I really like all of them. So in a 7 shot 357 for you prefer a gp100 or a 686?

Bb

686, no doubt.

RS

686 for me. I kinda like the GP100 too, but have never owned one of my own.

686 for me, I’ve had both. I’m a Ruger fan but the 686’s I’ve had I liked better and shot better than my GP100’s.

+1

Pre lock 686.

Would not even consider a Ruger.
In any flavor.

Have a Python, old one.

But if I didnt, Id have a 686.
4 or 6"


8 3/8" is fun for clanging stéel but thats about it.

I’d look at the Kimber revolver too, 3 or 4”, very nice.

I have an older 686 with the firing pin on the hammer, I have about 10,000 rounds through it and still shoots flawlessly. I'm with the OP on the new Python........the trigger SUCK's and needs worked on, a GP100 would need a bit of trigger work as well

My buddy and I bought .357’s at the same time. He bought a GP 100, I bought a 686. Shoot them together, he prefers my 686. I do too. Trigger, mostly. I understand the Ruger can be improved, but out of the box the difference is significant. The Ruger is certainly a hearty gun, you can see that just looking at them side by side; top strap, build in general. I would do that exactly - look at them side by side if you can. Dry fire if they’ll let you. Get whichever speaks to you.

686. I probably have in excess of 20,00 rounds thru mine. If I were thinking Ruger, I'd look to a used Security Six instead of the GP .When the GP's came out I looked them over,shot a few. I liked my 4" Security Six better. My 686 goes to the range when I go.

My 3" GP100 must've had the greatest factory trigger ever 3 lb single 9.5 lb double and I shot it lots from wadcutters to J.D Jones level 170 grain and it ate them all. But the Smith is a good marque so buy both.

Burleyboy: I have several Smith & Wesson Model 686's in various barrel lengths (2 1/2", 4", 6" and 8 3/8") and LOVE them all!
I have never owned (or wanted to own) a Ruger GP100.
I base this on the lesser aesthetics of the Ruger and the amazing balance, feel, looks, performance of the Model 686's I own.
I am not saying a GP-100 is not a good pistol - I am saying the Smith & Wesson Model 686's ARE outstanding guns and good investments.
Best of luck with whichever you choose - maybe "Daverageguy" is right - consider buying them both?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

S&W is dead around here. Pieces of sh*t spit on the constitution and joined Clinton in enforcing gun control and deciding normal citizens couldn’t and shouldn’t have AR’s.
Remember this before you give love to traitors.

Today�s agreement represents the first time a major gun manufacturer has committed to fundamentally change the way guns are designed, distributed and marketed. This deal shows what is possible when we work together in good faith. We applaud Smith and Wesson's leadership, and hope other responsible members of the gun industry will step forward too.
Some of the key provisions of the agreement include:
New design standards to make guns safer and prevent accidental shootings and gun deaths

Locking devices. Safety locking devices will be required for handguns and pistols, external locking devices within 60 days and internal locking devices within 24 months.

Smart guns. Two percent of annual firearms revenues will be dedicated to the development of authorized user technology that can limit a gun�s use to its proper owner. Authorized user technology will be included in all new firearm models within 36 months.

Large capacity magazines. New firearms will not be able to accept ammunition magazines with a capacity of over 10 rounds. The manufacture of such magazines has been prohibited since 1994.

Safety testing and standards. All firearms are to be tested by ATF to ensure that they meet performance and safety standards such as drop tests.

Other safety devices. Within one year, all pistols will have chamber load indictors to show that a pistol is loaded to prevent accidents, and magazine disconnectors will be available to customers within 12 months.

New sales and distribution controls to help keep guns out of the hands of criminals and help law enforcement crack down on illegal gun traffickers. Under the deal, manufacturers will agree to sell only to authorized dealers and distributors who agree to a code of conduct. The code of conduct imposes new requirements on authorized dealers and distributors.

Cutting off dealers with disproportionate crime guns. Under the agreement, manufacturers will take action against dealers or distributors who sell disproportionate numbers of guns that turn up in crimes within three years of sale, including termination or suspension against the dealer or distributor.

Gun shows. Authorized dealers cannot sell at gun shows unless every seller at the gun show conducts background checks.

Ballistics testing. To help law enforcement trace guns used in crime when only the bullet or casing is recovered, ballistics fingerprints will be provided for all new firearms to ATF/FBI National Integrated Ballistics Identification Network within 6 months if technologically feasible.

Safety training for purchasers. No sales will be made to dealers who do not require gun purchasers to demonstrate that they can safety handle and store firearms.

Theft prevention. No sales will be made to dealers who do not implement a security plan to prevent gun theft.

Weapons attractive to criminals. Authorized dealers and distributors will not sell large capacity ammunition magazines or semiautomatic assault weapons.

Restrictions on multiple handgun sales. To deter illegal gun trafficking, dealers must agree to new limits on multiple handgun sales. All purchasers of multiple handguns can only take one handgun from the day of sale, the remainder 14 days later.

I’d vote 686 by a mile.

It’s sad the prices of Rugers have gone up so much because that would be my choice for something I’d carry anywhere anytime and not worry about it. Far fewer moving pieces and far less delicate. They can polish up quite nicely too and with a spring kit can have a great trigger.

These are the reasons I bought a Ruger Redhawk instead of a 629 when I lived in AK. I went riding (then) 3-wheeler and got a S&W all [bleep] up from the dust and had to take it apart and clean it.

But for down here and now that I have a few more brain cells on how to care for my guns, 686 for the win.

I have one of the new 686+ seven shot models. It has the lock hole, although the lock parts are removed. Before it's purchase I had a Customs Service model 686.. I also have a very old, very worn and used GP100.. The older CS model had the best trigger of the three. The new lock model is smoothing up nicely with dry fire practice. Because of age and use, the Ruger has a very good trigger.


The S&W L Frame is slightly more svelte in the hand, for lack of a better word. The old Ruger has never been disassembled by me. Bought used decades ago, it's earned my trust, and respect, and seems impervious to time and use. I have other S&W revolvers. They always smooth up and get better with age. More so, I think than Ruger. Both can be home gunsmithed into better tune without much effort. Especially with YouTube assistance.

I think either one would give great service. I would not shy away from the lock model Smith's or worry a solitary millisecond about MIM parts or Ruger's reputation for heavy triggers.

The 686 will have a better out of the box fit and finish, and in all likelihood a better trigger pull.

The Ruger is more robust and simpler to tear down for deep cleaning, or modification. The triggers on both firearms, if new, will improve with use.

A Wolff spring kit in the Ruger takes 10 minutes to install, and greatly improves the pull. A couple hundred firings (or dry firings) smooths out the trigger/sear engagement and gives it the final polishing it should have had at the factory.

If possible, compare them side by side, and get the one you like best.

My GP100 has been flawless in operation. Probably 1000+ rounds through it without failure. Comfortable to shoot as well. I have no regrets. No issue with the trigger either.

I have a GP100 I picked up recently for $499 used but it's a 6". I really prefer a 4" for practicality. The gp100 is nice for $499 but when looking at a new 7 shot 4" at around $800 I realized I'm getting into the 686 price range. I think it's pretty much settled, I need a 4" 7 shot 686.

Thanks,
Bb

Prior to the GP becoming available in .44 Special I would have never said this.

But I'll take a GP all day over a 686. They're truly capable of repeated abuse and their triggers can be slicked up with ease.

I only say this if you're looking to shoot a lot of .357. If not, I'd get a Smith and Wesson 19 and never look back.

Aren't the forcing cones on the new 19s beefier than the originals?

Yes.

On the forcing cones, I’d closely inspect that on either, prior to purchase. Seems to be one of the current potential ‘issues’ in bad QC, on these current revolvers. The machining of them. Look for smoothness with the tip of your pinky. Around the edges and particularly inside circumference of the cone. Some are what you would expect to be ‘normal’ and fine. An equal number, I have found, to be nothing resembling that. Some say to bring a Q-tip, insert it in the cone, drag it out closely against the side and see if any of the cotton hairs hang up. You could do this on the crown of the barrel to. Another thing to look at closely. But what kind of azzwipe carries Q-tips around with him waiting on a revolver inspection? lol.

Your finger can tell you plenty though. If it’s all rough as shcitt around the outside, prob same on the in. Pass.

GP100 for me. If it's a 357 mag, that's what I'm shooting in it.

I like the looks of a Smith, but I’d go with the tank of a Ruger.

LOL

My GP 100 6" is a very, very accurate pistol with 125g Sierra and Hornady XTP's with IMR 4227 and H110. I replaced the front sight with a beade sight and a V Notch rear sight. This combo makes for some very accurate pistol shooting at some distance. I doubt you will ever live long enough to shoot a GP 100 loose from hot loads.

Replace the spring in the grip of the GP 100 and you have one more sweet trigger.

My 686 6" is a really nice gun, but it is not as accurate as my GP100, but the trigger is smoother on double action. The 686 is not as robust as the GP100 in terms of strength. You can do nothing on the 686 Sights.

I have killed 6 coyotes and two Javelina with the GP 100 with the 125's.

If you ever get the chance to get a Ruger Red Hawk in 357, Buy it!

Have both the 686 and the gp100, both are great guns

All this talk of how robust the Ruger is, and it certainly is, but how many have actually seen a L- frame shoot loose?

crickets.........

Out of the 2 offered, I'd go 686 all day long.

"Shooting loose" is not a term I used. But anybody that has any time around an L-frame and a GP-100 will quickly determine that the GP is the tougher of the two.

And you've never shot or used a GP.

So STFU.

686

I haven't even shot the 6" gp100 I recently bought yet but it does have a solid feel to it. I should have kept the 4" gp100 I had in 327fed. It was a good shooting solid gun but I have a single 7 in 327 too and in cull the herd moment decided I didn't need both. A local shop actually has a 4" gp100 7 shot 357 in stock that they said they'd go $750 on. I think I'll look around this week and see if anyone has a 686 like I want locally.

Maybe I'm getting old but I really had almost no interest in 357 for years. I have several 44s and just figured that was where things started as far as revolvers went. I think that starting to cast bullets again and the python being released again has perked my interest. After running a dozen or 2 of hotter 270g gold dot 44 mag loads through my 329 pd this week I realized that type of shooting just isn't fun anymore. I dropped down to a 240g nosler jsp over power pistol at about 1150 fps in the 329pd and it's tolerable but not enjoyable.

The 329 is what I carry the most revolver wise so I like to practice with it but it feels more like work lately than pleasure. I spent last night casting more lee 148g tumble lube wad cutters and thinking how much fun they'll be to just practice with at 38 special speeds in the heavy gp100. I'll get them powder coated and try loading them over about 4.5-5g universal and give them a try in that 6" gp100. They might even make my 360 pd enjoyable to shoot. I think I've grown out of the full power all the time stage.

Bb

If you want an Vee notch rear for the 686 get a sight set from the 329PD. You’ll have to break the windage screw and stake the nut on the new one but that’s just how S&Ws work.

And for the record give me the L frame if that’s our only two choices.

An L frame in 357 is sublime. 125s to 180s, hot to target loads. They are awesome.

The ruger sure won’t fall apart, but the aesthetics and ergonomics never seemed right to me.

Despite deflave’s spurious accusations, I’ve shot a handful of the rugers and just couldn’t love them.
.

The single most accurate handgun I've ever owned was a 4" blued GP100. It would put 6 170 grain Sierra JHCs into a group too small to measure, around 0.2 to 0.25 inch center to center .. had to just estimate from how big a single hole was vs how big the group. It would do it over and over and over again. It was an educational gun .. showed me what I could do from a bench with iron sights, showed me that bigger groups are the gun / ammo, not my eyes or trigger finger.

Today, I'd probably go with a still NIB pre lock x86 (not too likely to find), then a GP-100, then a x86 with the lock in that order. I would have to throw the S&W M27 4" and Dan Wesson in there as well, maybe even a 5.5" barreled Redhawk.

Sorry to hear 'bout your Python's SA pull, I've only shot one and for me they are/were a dream gun. Based on feedback here on the Campfire, I wouldn't buy one of the new ones.

Tom I wouldn't let the ol' campfire naysayers run ya' off one. I have a new Python and Anaconda, and the trigger pulls on both are more than acceptable.

You can't shoot double action worth a damn anyway.

Where the 357mag cartridge comes into it's own for me is well packing into the back country. Savings on weight and bulk can be a boon depending on intent. Yet there's still enough power in select loads. Usually, again depending intent.

? What’s so funny about a shoddily machined forcing cone? Never seen one?

I put down the 4” I wanted and bought a 3”, because I could pick at the burrs on the inside of the cone on the 4” with my pinky nail.

That job is K frame country in my opinion. I occasionally pack my old M19 6" for scouting deer sign, mushroom hunting, hiking, ect. We have a lot of hogs, a few bears and the occasional mountain lion in my neck of the woods. 158 gr. XTP's at around 1300 fps are accurate.

I’ve shot both. If I bought one now, I’d get the Ruger, the new Smiths arent as nicely put together as ones before they installed the the grip safety. The Smiths are prettier, but I’d go for a new Ruger indtead thesre days.

What grip safety would that be? Do you mean the sideplate lock?
The only GP100 that I've ever liked is the 3in Wiley Clapp model.

686, pre-Hillary. Although my 686+ is no slouch with a Custom Shop slicked up trigger.

Has Ruger got the problems with the 7 shot GP ironed out? Thinking I read where they have.

I now have a Match Champion that's a pretty damn good pistol after it's obligatory trip back to the factory. But I still like my Smith 66 better.

L frame Smith is more than sufficient, strength wise...........it's even chambered in 44 mag now.

So pick whichever gun you like the best & rock on.

Either way, it's really kind of pointless to shoot full house magnum loads all the time, just for the fun of it, anyway, so in reality 90% of the people don't, so IMO, more or less a moot point.

YMMV

MM

I had a 686 6" for a while and it was a beautifully put together piece, felt great in my big hands with the target grips, and the sights were terrific on it. However, no matter what I did it wouldn't shoot worth a darn. It always shot low left at least 6" at 25 yards with whatever ammo I loaded in it. I let my buddies try it, including one buddy who was a police shooting instructor and none of them could do any better with it so it went down the road. If it has shot as well as it looked it would still be in the safe... haven't had a chance to try the GP100s yet, but hopefully someone at the new gun club I'm joining will have one at the range one day so I can actually get a feel for it. I wouldn't be opposed to trying another 586/686 if I could find one that shot better...

Bob

I don't have my new Anaconda yet but me and the 2 friends I shoot with have our Pythons, SA trigger pull ranges from 6lb 3oz to 6lb 8oz on the 3 revolvers.
For a $1500 revolver a 6 1/2lb trigger might be more than acceptable to you but is completely unacceptable to me...............mine is at the gunsmith right now getting fixed.
In the meantime I will keep shooting my trusty 686

I have an old custom shop 686 I inherited from my dad. It is a hell of a shooter

I've never owned a 686, but have owned several Smith revolvers (and good guns all). Currently I have a SP101 and a GP100 (3 inch Wiley Clapp version) both in .357. Love these guns and would never part with them.

Well, I've owned both, but the GP100 was almost 35 years ago so I don't really remember much about it other than what I really wanted to buy that day for my 21st birthday was the 686 with the 8 3/8" barrel. They didn't have one in stock so I reluctantly bought the Ruger, but wasn't really happy with it mostly because I settled for it instead of what I really wanted, so it went down the road shortly thereafter.

I later bought a 6" 686 and kept it for a couple years, but then sold it. Now, many years later, I just recently bought the 686 with the 8 3/8" adjustable front sight that I'd always wanted. It's at the gun smith right now getting drilled and tapped for a scope. It's a no dash and pre-dated factory drilling and tapping on them. I've owned Rugers and I've owned Smith's, but it's hard to get a better trigger than a S&W and I prefer the looks too.

Mine is well over 6 pounds. Not exactly sure where it is because my scale doesn't go that high. I have two original anaconda and they are much better. I love everything else about my new python except the single action trigger pull. The double action pull is quite good. I should probably just get the trigger done and use the python but I'm still going to look for a 4" seven shot 686. I'm making piles of 148 wadcutters so I can get some practice in. I don't shoot handguns enough to be good with one. I plan to change that.

Does anyone know if the 170g Keith type bullets seat too far out for some shorter 357 cylinders? I think a good 170g Keith would work well as an all around cast load. I've loaded 180g wfn cast bullets for my wife's 3" sp101 that she carries fishing. I've found the heavier bullets still get decent velocity from the shorter barrels.

My favorite all around 357 bullet is probably the 158 xtp. I load a lot of those for her 101 too. The 158 xtp penetrates well enough for most things less than grizzly yet still offers enough expansion for self defense.

I used to use 125g hps for self d in a 357 and still occasionally carry a rem golden Saber 125g 357 load that Remington didn't load much hotter than 38 +p. That's usually what I have in my 360 pd because it's hard to handle much more than that in the little scadnium.

Bb

I've had both a 686 and a stainless GP100, both 4" I still have the GP100. Mine is an older model with the rubber grips with the wood insert. Fits my hand better than the Smith. I installed the Wolff springs and it has a pretty decent trigger now. Mine loves the 180 XTP's over a stout charge of H110. Another thing I like about the GP100 is how easy it is to change the front sight. Literally a 30 second job.

How often do you change the front sight?

I did on my 3" when I was shooting 90/95 grain .358 bullets. Took me 30 seconds and really helped.

I'd go for the 686, but would take one of the later pre-lock ones:

In the early L frames ( 586, 586-1, 686, 686-1) there was a recall regarding a firing pin bushing. Some revolvers would lock up while firing because the primer would flow back into the firing pin hole. Not all. The revolvers shipped to a S&W facility have an M stamped on the frame in the yoke area.

I've had a few of each over the years and sold my last 686 soon after I bought a GP100 44 Spl. The 5 shot 44 is easily my favorite of the bunch...

I like my 686, but will admit I have not shot a GP100 but one time but I liked it as well

I went into the gunshop today looking fir a 4" 686 plus. The had a 4" 6 shot 686 and a 3" 686 7 shot. I had about talked myself into the 3" plus model and yhen I noticed they had just put out a new M&P 10mm in the model i was looking for.

So the 686 plus will have to wait a but because I bought the 4" with safety M&P 10mm. I rely like the feel of this 10mm so I hope it is reliable like my xdm 10s are.

I also noticed a brand new looking heavy barrel savage 12 in 22-250 on the used rack cheap. I had a sticker that said cabelas exclusive on it. I'm not a savage fan but it looked like it would work for shooting a bunch of ground squirrels and I was already doing paperwork so I bought it too. I need to figure out what twist it is. I guess savage made 22-250s in 9 and 12 twist. I hope it's a 9.

Bb

Have an blue GP100 4" that's amazing, beautiful old s&W model 27's, 19, pre dash 686, model 13, and Ruger security six , old blued python and trooper mkIII. The 686 that I have is extremely nice as is the action and I love it. But truth be told my old model 27's and the Ruger GP100 are the best 357 revolvers I have, even more so than my old colts. Hands down no comparison the $450 I paid for the GP100 and the Milt Sparks holster were an bargain and one slick package. I improved it even more by an shim and spring kit and some stoning. The thing is an Supreme packing revolver, but that just my opinion and it may be different for others.

If you're referring to your new Python regarding cylinder length and the 170 Keith, that combo in 357 brass is too long. It does work nicely in 38 Spl brass - that shot very well in mine with HS-6.

I'm not a big fan of the Keith 170. I have always had best luck using JHP's when hunting with the .357. I have never found the .357 wanting for penetration when using 140gr or heavier bullets, but I have found it wanting for frontal diameter when animals get larger. So for me, the .357 benefitted greatly from JHP's. I have always been happy with the performance of a quality 158 JHP.

I guess I'd want a heavy cast bullet if I were trying to take down a moose, but then I wouldn't be picking a .357 for that particular job.

I've had and still have several S&W and Ruger revolvers. The S&W's tend to come with better triggers, but the Ruger can easily be improved to acceptable or better. I haven't perceived any real difference in accuracy. The biggest differences besides visual appearance of form are the ease of disassembling the Ruger for deep cleaning or other work, and different manipulation of the cylinder latch. I happen to find the Ruger cylinder latch much easier to live with. If you haven't at least compared the two with your own hands, you're doing yourself a disservice.

Other than that, it's all generally subjective and up to your own taste, IMO. But my current favorite is the (admittedly hyperbolicly named) Match Champion. BTW, my Match Champion came with a very good trigger, and will not be getting any special attention.

When comparing medium frame .357's, specifically S&W, Ruger, and Colt...No matter what, you're going to end up with a fantastic revolver. It comes down to the little things that do it for you. Look, feel, sights, trigger...etc. Everyone has a revolver that just does it for them...just make sure you buy the one that does it for you. Or you'll have to go back at a later date and buy the one that does it for you. Might as well 100% satisfy the heart the first time; its cheaper that way.

I now have a 4" python, a 6" gp100, a 3" sp101, and a 1&7/8" 360pd all in 357. Now I want a 686 plus 7 shot in a 4" for an all around shooter. I was considering a 4" 7 shot gp100 too but I've narrowed it down to a 686. The local shop had a 3" 686 plus I'm stock and that is tempting me. I guess my question has now evolved into which 686 plus should I get, 3" or 4"?

Thanks,
Bb

It depend upon the use to me. Since I wouldn't be trying to conceal carry a 686+, I'd go with the 4" barrel. For general use, I like a 4" to 6" barrel 357 magnum. I have a 686+ with a 5" barrel that's just about perfect for my use for a hunting revolver and general range gun.

I can only shoot one at a time, so my Python does it all for me. And if I'm being honest, once I found my 4" Python, I really didn't shoot my other .357's anymore. So my 686 Plus went down the road and while its a fantastic revolver, I don't miss it.

You might ask yourself, why would you not want the 4"?

Town Police Chief has a beautiful 686 and a well used Ruger Security Six. S&W looks well made, nice fit and finish. Ruger LOOKS well used but still tight.

Early in his LE career when six shooters were carry guns, he relied on the Ruger.

He competed in club shoots and made money with his Ruger commenting to me that when the S&W guys had the cylinders tie up with grime slowing their shoot'in, his Ruger kept on going.

He also liked the Rugers cylinder release though you get used to whatever type your pistol has. Never had the trigger worked on, it just got really smooth after hundred of rounds.

I'm not a Ruger guy, but I have always liked the Security Six. It was a bit stronger than the S&W M19, and you can tune a Ruger DA to match just about any S&W. The Security Six was a solid choice as a carry .357 back in the day.

My dad and I bought new 4" .357's together years ago. I bought a Security Six, dad a S&W M19. I was casting 158 gr. SWC and using Unique powder and those were smokey, dirty loads. My Ruger would bind up in a long practice session and dad's M19 never missed a beat.

Mine was older as it was a 112. But it was 14 inch twist. It would shoot the Hornady 60 gr spitzer, but the Nosler 60 gr BT tumbled.

Yes, the one you are looking at should be a shooter with which ever bullet it will stabilize.

Get one of each. Shoot 'em for a while. One will win you over. Sell the one you don't care for. Easy Peasy.

Not bad advice if that's financially feasible.

I was a S&W guy most of my life, but I always wanted a Python. Bought a 6" blue Python and just really didn't like it. Found I shot my S&W 19 much more than the Python, so it went down the road. I thought I was done with Pythons. Then I came across my current 4" nickel, and I decided to give it another try. Turns out, me and a 4" Python get along real well. After that, I found I just didn't shoot my S&W's anymore, so they went down the road.

I don't go in for the "best" argument; that's a waste of time. They're all good, just find the one that sings to you.

I owned both and I love both. I think the trigger on the 686 is better but only by the slightest margin.

686 - change the trigger spring with one of these kits and you'll have a great handgun. https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Custom-Tune-Spring-Kit-SW-K_L_N-Frame-Revolvers/productinfo/178/

Having owned a 4"bbl 686-3, I can say I'd never own another one, unbalanced, inferior quality to the older Model 19 & Pythons. I have an old Redhawk 44, would definitely give the GP100 a try.

686 any day. I’ve owned maybe 15 or 16 Rugers. Most when I had a full a long time ago. I kept buying them and selling if they didn’t shoot well. I kept the last one.
The Rugers are crude revolvers! Crude sights, rude triggers and their quality in the early years were the pits. I have no desire to own another Ruger. My brother had a Super Red Hawk 44 Mag. It looked like the factory couldn’t decide whether to put the barrel on a 44 or a 45. It was a little small for the 45, but close. That revolver just shot bullets that tumbled.

I own quite a few S&W including a 586 (blue version of the 686). I really like that revolver.