Anybody out there #varmintfingered one of these yet? Interested in picking up a striker fired pistol and giving an RDS a try but have not been able to lay hands on one local yet.
Appreciate real life good/bad on them, hold the Springfield is dead to me lectures if you can.
I haven’t had a chance to handle one, but they look like they’d be worth trying. No SA hating here…I own 3. If they’d bring out a 10mm version of this Echelon in a compact(3”to 4” range), they could easily talk me into needing it. Would be interested in a shake down of these new SA pistols as well.
If you don't have an existing platform I would probably give it a go. The grip angle seems more normal and less Glock which to me is a plus. It also seems slim which is another plus.
I get really irritated when something like a plastic 9mm drops and it comes with two mags and I can't buy more mags with it.
It also says Croatia on the side of it. I don't care for that.
Front tritium and $700 out the door isn't bad though. And the LGS I was in is pretty high usually so it is likely cheaper other places.
If you don't have an existing platform I would probably give it a go. The grip angle seems more normal and less Glock which to me is a plus. It also seems slim which is another plus.
I get really irritated when something like a plastic 9mm drops and it comes with two mags and I can't buy more mags with it.
It also says Croatia on the side of it. I don't care for that.
Front tritium and $700 out the door isn't bad though. And the LGS I was in is pretty high usually so it is likely cheaper other places.
The original XD design is from Croatia too. I won a HS-2000 at a banquet years ago. Didn’t care for it and traded it.
If you don't have an existing platform I would probably give it a go. The grip angle seems more normal and less Glock which to me is a plus. It also seems slim which is another plus.
I get really irritated when something like a plastic 9mm drops and it comes with two mags and I can't buy more mags with it.
It also says Croatia on the side of it. I don't care for that.
Front tritium and $700 out the door isn't bad though. And the LGS I was in is pretty high usually so it is likely cheaper other places.
The original XD design is from Croatia too. I won a HS-2000 at a banquet years ago. Didn’t care for it and traded it.
All XD models are from Croatia. But who cares? Glocks were originally from Austria. Walthers from Germany. Berettas from Italy. So what?
I'm with the "no sale until mags widely available" policy too though.
If you don't have an existing platform I would probably give it a go. The grip angle seems more normal and less Glock which to me is a plus. It also seems slim which is another plus.
I get really irritated when something like a plastic 9mm drops and it comes with two mags and I can't buy more mags with it.
It also says Croatia on the side of it. I don't care for that.
Front tritium and $700 out the door isn't bad though. And the LGS I was in is pretty high usually so it is likely cheaper other places.
The original XD design is from Croatia too. I won a HS-2000 at a banquet years ago. Didn’t care for it and traded it.
All XD models are from Croatia. But who cares? Glocks were originally from Austria. Walthers from Germany. Berettas from Italy. So what?
I'm with the "no sale until mags widely available" policy too though.
If you don't have an existing platform I would probably give it a go. The grip angle seems more normal and less Glock which to me is a plus. It also seems slim which is another plus.
I get really irritated when something like a plastic 9mm drops and it comes with two mags and I can't buy more mags with it.
It also says Croatia on the side of it. I don't care for that.
Front tritium and $700 out the door isn't bad though. And the LGS I was in is pretty high usually so it is likely cheaper other places.
Made in 🇭🇷? I would not hold that against SA. Austrians produced: Hitler, Göth, Kaltenbrunner, Eichmann, Stangl,....☠️. Glock made in 🇦🇹 😱
As this one is G17 sized, I'm guessing it will only be a matter of time until we get a compact G19 sized model also. Sounds like they've done a pretty good job here.
Handled one last week while waiting on paperwork at the lgs. Felt good and really liked the sights, u notch and tritium front were really easy to pick up. I've never fired a striker fired pistol but this felt very nice in hand. I haven't made a choice on purchasing one, but leaning toward a Sig 320 of some sort being as this is still too new.
Handled one last week while waiting on paperwork at the lgs. Felt good and really liked the sights, u notch and tritium front were really easy to pick up. I've never fired a striker fired pistol but this felt very nice in hand. I haven't made a choice on purchasing one, but leaning toward a Sig 320 of some sort being as this is still too new.
I'd go for the Echelon before the Sig. I was one of the first buyers of the P320, when they hit the market. I could really feel it's high bore axis vs my Glock 17. I sold the 320 pretty quick (Why would I want a Glock 17-sized, striker-fired, 9mm with handling characteristics inferior to those of my Glock?). The Echelon has a bore axis more like a Glock, so likely has similar handling characteristics.
Handled one last week while waiting on paperwork at the lgs. Felt good and really liked the sights, u notch and tritium front were really easy to pick up. I've never fired a striker fired pistol but this felt very nice in hand. I haven't made a choice on purchasing one, but leaning toward a Sig 320 of some sort being as this is still too new.
I'd go for the Echelon before the Sig. I was one of the first buyers of the P320, when they hit the market. I could really feel its high bore axis vs my Glock 17. I sold the 320 pretty quick (Why would I want a Glock 17-sized, striker-fired, 9mm with handling characteristics inferior to those of my Glock?). The Echelon has a bore axis more like a Glock, so likely has similar handling characteristics.
Buddy was talking about them yesterday. Found one local around 600. Said it felt between 17 and 19 as far as grip and the trigger was good. They look/sound pretty cool. [bleep] Glock lol
Handled one last week while waiting on paperwork at the lgs. Felt good and really liked the sights, u notch and tritium front were really easy to pick up. I've never fired a striker fired pistol but this felt very nice in hand. I haven't made a choice on purchasing one, but leaning toward a Sig 320 of some sort being as this is still too new.
I'd go for the Echelon before the Sig. I was one of the first buyers of the P320, when they hit the market. I could really feel its high bore axis vs my Glock 17. I sold the 320 pretty quick (Why would I want a Glock 17-sized, striker-fired, 9mm with handling characteristics inferior to those of my Glock?). The Echelon has a bore axis more like a Glock, so likely has similar handling characteristics.
LOL
Fugking moron.
You'd need to be a highly experienced handgunner to notice the difference, and understand from which characteristic it stems.
Handled one last week while waiting on paperwork at the lgs. Felt good and really liked the sights, u notch and tritium front were really easy to pick up. I've never fired a striker fired pistol but this felt very nice in hand. I haven't made a choice on purchasing one, but leaning toward a Sig 320 of some sort being as this is still too new.
I'd go for the Echelon before the Sig. I was one of the first buyers of the P320, when they hit the market. I could really feel its high bore axis vs my Glock 17. I sold the 320 pretty quick (Why would I want a Glock 17-sized, striker-fired, 9mm with handling characteristics inferior to those of my Glock?). The Echelon has a bore axis more like a Glock, so likely has similar handling characteristics.
LOL
Fugking moron.
You'd need to be a highly experienced handgunner to notice the difference, and understand from which characteristic it stems.
Handled one last week while waiting on paperwork at the lgs. Felt good and really liked the sights, u notch and tritium front were really easy to pick up. I've never fired a striker fired pistol but this felt very nice in hand. I haven't made a choice on purchasing one, but leaning toward a Sig 320 of some sort being as this is still too new.
I'd go for the Echelon before the Sig. I was one of the first buyers of the P320, when they hit the market. I could really feel its high bore axis vs my Glock 17. I sold the 320 pretty quick (Why would I want a Glock 17-sized, striker-fired, 9mm with handling characteristics inferior to those of my Glock?). The Echelon has a bore axis more like a Glock, so likely has similar handling characteristics.
LOL
Fugking moron.
You'd need to be a highly experienced handgunner to notice the difference, and understand from which characteristic it stems.
Yeah.
Post your split times on the drills you ran with each pistol.
I've only dabbled in the organized shooting sports from time to time, but handgunning has been my primary hobby since 1980. When did you start handgunning?
I've only dabbled in the organized shooting sports from time to time, but handgunning has been my primary hobby since 1980. When did you start handgunning?
You don’t need to shoot competitively to know split times.
You post Bat Masterson's split times and I'll post mine.
LOL
Do you even own a timer?
Of course not, but I will buy one if you post Bat Masterson's split times.
But seriously, my "split times" are ungodly fast. Machine gun like. Is that something to be proud of? I had no idea. Just another day at the range, for me.
PS Is there a rule regarding at what distance we're talking, and how tight the two shot group needs to be?
You post Bat Masterson's split times and I'll post mine.
LOL
Do you even own a timer?
Of course not, but I will buy one if you post Bat Masterson's split times.
But seriously, my "split times" are ungodly fast. Machine gun like. Is that something to be proud of? I had no idea. Just another day at the range, for me.
PS Is there a rule regarding at what distance we're talking, and how tight the two shot group needs to be?
It's well known among experienced handgunners that a low bore axis minimizes the sensation of muzzle flip while a high bore axis accentuates it, i.e., the recoil impulse will feel differently between a high and a low bore axis handgun of the same chambering.
If you are accustomed to low bore axis handguns, you will likely find that the recoil impulse on a high bore axis handgun is less preferred as between the two. You may describe it as possessing inferior handling characteristics in terms of how it directs the recoil impulse.
This is not a new concept. It's been well understood among handgun shooters for a very long time. Many who are heavily invested in a particular handgun platform that has a high bore axis, however, will tend to argue that they perceive no difference between the two, and they may even be so dedicated to their favorite handgun platform that they may well have convinced themselves of this. It is, however, a matter of basic physics, and they should notice the difference.
It's well known among experienced handgunners that a low bore axis minimizes the sensation of muzzle flip while a high bore axis accentuates it, i.e., the recoil impulse will feel differently between a high and a low bore axis handgun of the same chambering.
If you are accustomed to low bore axis handguns, you will likely find that the recoil impulse on a high bore axis handgun is less preferred as between the two. You may describe it as possessing inferior handling characteristics in terms of how it directs the recoil impulse.
This is not a new concept. It's been well understood among handgun shooters for a very long time. Many who are heavily invested in a particular handgun platform that has a high bore axis, however, will tend to argue that they perceive no difference between the two, and they may even be so dedicated to their favorite handgun platform that they may well have convinced themselves of this. It is, however, a matter of basic physics, and they should notice the difference.
By the standard method, universally accepted. It's not really subject to opinion. It's the height of the bore line in relation to the area where the hand is joined to the wrist.
By the standard method, universally accepted. It's not really subject to opinion. It's the height of the bore line in relation to the area where the hand is joined to the wrist.
So what is an acceptable amount of bore axis and when does it become a problem?
By the standard method, universally accepted. It's not really subject to opinion. It's the height of the bore line in relation to the area where the hand is joined to the wrist.
So what is an acceptable amount of bore axis and when does it become a problem?
You can compensate for it, so "problem" is not the best word to describe it. It's a matter of preference, which is for the individual to decide.
If it's slight, and you prefer your higher bore axis handgun platform for other reasons, you will likely just learn to live with it. The more extreme the difference, the less likely someone will be happy to live with it, given an option. But that it can be perceived is another matter.
In a 9mm, or a more powerful handgun, you should be able to perceive the difference in muzzle flip between, say, a Glock 17 and a Sig P320. Whether you wish to compensate for it (because there are other factors you prefer in the Sig over the Glock) is up to the shooter.
The formula is simple, Torque equals the force times the lever arm. Just have to know the percentage difference in length of the lever arm, and you'll know the percentage difference in the Torque.
I have not had a chance to handle one yet, but there is a website I read often that just did a review. Gun University Echelon Review
The author is more of a long range guy shooter, but his handgun reviews seem very honest. His only complaint was the price.
I am most interested in the optic set up. seems very encouraging to have a very flexible optic set up. Springfield Prodigy is using the Agency Arms AOS system that looks good, but this Springfield VIS system looks promising.
I am looking forward to some more long term reviews before i jump in though. at this point i am too invested in glock to make a switch.
By the standard method, universally accepted. It's not really subject to opinion. It's the height of the bore line in relation to the area where the hand is joined to the wrist.
So what is an acceptable amount of bore axis and when does it become a problem?
You can compensate for it, so "problem" is not the best word to describe it. It's a matter of preference, which is for the individual to decide.
If it's slight, and you prefer your higher bore axis handgun platform for other reasons, you will likely just learn to live with it. The more extreme the difference, the less likely someone will be happy to live with it, given an option. But that it can be perceived is another matter.
In a 9mm, or a more powerful handgun, you should be able to perceive the difference in muzzle flip between, say, a Glock 17 and a Sig P320. Whether you wish to compensate for it (because there are other factors you prefer in the Sig over the Glock) is up to the shooter.
OK.
What is your preferred amount of bore axis in a pistol?
I have not had a chance to handle one yet, but there is a website I read often that just did a review. Gun University Echelon Review
The author is more of a long range guy shooter, but his handgun reviews seem very honest. His only complaint was the price.
I am most interested in the optic set up. seems very encouraging to have a very flexible optic set up. Springfield Prodigy is using the Agency Arms AOS system that looks good, but this Springfield VIS system looks promising.
I am looking forward to some more long term reviews before i jump in though. at this point i am too invested in glock to make a switch.
Thanks for putting us back on course.
Which optic do you use on your Glock? And which Glock do you shoot?
Do not worry about "bore axis issue". Look you do not see experienced boomers go for them Mateba or Chiappa Rhino revolvers. Their choice are older pre-MIM, pre-lock S&W revolvers like pops and grandpops had. The older the better.
Do not worry about "bore axis issue". Look you do not see experienced boomers go for them Mateba or Chiappa Rhino revolvers. Their choice are older pre-MIM, pre-lock S&W revolvers like pops and grandpops had. The older the better.
If you were to stick a barrel in your mouth would high, low, or medium bore axis be desired? Reflect.
I like that on my Glocks better than those on, say, a Sig P226 or P320. I find that I prefer how it directs the recoil impulse, i.e., more straight back, and less of a pivot at the point of fulcrum, old buddy. YMMV.
I like that on my Glocks better than those on, say, a Sig P226 or P320. I find that I prefer how it directs the recoil impulse, i.e., more straight back, and less of a pivot at the point of fulcrum, old buddy. YMMV.
I like that on my Glocks better than those on, say, a Sig P226 or P320. I find that I prefer how it directs the recoil impulse, i.e., more straight back, and less of a pivot at the point of fulcrum, old buddy. YMMV.
So the amount of bore axis you like is Glock?
OK.
What does Glock bore axis do for your shooting?
It generates a recoil impulse more to my preference than, say, a Sig P320. So much so that I would characterize that of the P320 as noticeably inferior. If all I could have was a P320, I could compensate and grow accustomed to it, of course, but why would I if I have a Glock.
If you interested in low bore axis I would look at modern pistol which uses Bergamann Bayard mechanism. Modern gun using this system was designed in Russia several years ago, but is not proven design like a Glock or numerous copies being produced now because there are no major military/police users. This is because it costs about 2x > a Glock.
If you interested in low bore axis I would look at modern pistol which uses Bergamann Bayard mechanism. Modern gun using this system was designed in Russia several years ago, but is not proven design like a Glock or numerous copies being produced now because there are no major military/police users. This is because it costs about 2x > a Glock.
To bring this clusterfuck somewhat back on track, hit two more shops today - negative. May be running through Eau Claire tomorrow. If thats the case Scheels will be the last resort for in person fondling.
To bring this clusterfuck somewhat back on track, hit two more shops today - negative. May be running through Eau Claire tomorrow. If thats the case Scheels will be the last resort for in person fondling.
Touched one at Scheels yesterday. Will agree the trigger felt nicer than Glock and M&Ps I've shot. U shaped rear isn't for me even if intending to run an optic. 3 dot tritium model is another $50 but none on hand. A lot to like about it, nothing earth shattering.
Walked away for now. Not going to beta test for SA. Will be keeping an eye going forward and want to see how they expand grip modules going forward, mag availability, get some long term data on the plateless system durability, etc.
Mean time still want to play with an optic on something. Front runner/easy button just pick up an optics ready P10-F or C to try out. Prefer not to cut my P07 or P09 until I'm committed to an optic.
Also finger fugged an M&P 22 Mag at Scheels. Didn't hate it even though I have no use for a 22 Mag. Could buy one as an excuse to dip a toe in the RDO world with out committing to a carry platform. Current state in ammo world 9mm and 22 Mag are about the same per round for range use. Jew brain struggles to accept this reality and airs on the side of CF.
Touched one at Scheels yesterday. Will agree the trigger felt nicer than Glock and M&Ps I've shot. U shaped rear isn't for me even if intending to run an optic. 3 dot tritium model is another $50 but none on hand. A lot to like about it, nothing earth shattering.
Walked away for now. Not going to beta test for SA. Will be keeping an eye going forward and want to see how they expand grip modules going forward, mag availability, get some long term data on the plateless system durability, etc.
Mean time still want to play with an optic on something. Front runner/easy button just pick up an optics ready P10-F or C to try out. Prefer not to cut my P07 or P09 until I'm committed to an optic.
Also finger fugged an M&P 22 Mag at Scheels. Didn't hate it even though I have no use for a 22 Mag. Could buy one as an excuse to dip a toe in the RDO world with out committing to a carry platform. Current state in ammo world 9mm and 22 Mag are about the same per round for range use. Jew brain struggles to accept this reality and airs on the side of CF.
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