What 10mm would be your choice. There are several makers: Kimber, EAA, CZ Dan Wesson, S&W, Glock, etc. I thought CZ made it in their CZ75, but it is not in their website. And of course there are custom jobs, but I'm thinking of a pistol that is more affordable than one of those.

What are you doing with it?

If it's carry in the woods for defense against 2 and 4 legged beasts, I'd go Glock every time.

Cheap, reliable, hardy, reliable, extra parts and mags readily available, etc......did I mention reliable?

You are probably thinking of the EAA Witness. They make a CZ clone in 10mm. The Glock is the most bang for the buck. I've owned one for 15 years and it has functioned flawlessly. There is a EAA on GB right now for 355 and a Glock with nightsights for 500.

Glock, 'nuff said!

S&W 610. Burns .40's and 10mm's. Can't think of another 10mm that does that.

.


Travis.

If it's a hunting only rig, the 6" 610. Easily.

If it's a hunting, carrying, camping, nightstand, fishing, etc. 10mm, the G20, hand's down, if it fits your hand.

If the G20 is out, get the Dan Wesson CBOB.

Do the 1911 types (Kimber and DW) handle the 10mm better than the Colt did? They had a nasty reputation for eating themselves on 10mm.

Yes. The metallurgy has changed, and the use of heavier than standard recoil springs and buffers fixed most of the problems. The Colts were too stiff/brittle steel, and too weak in the springs. The Wessons and Kimbers don't have either problem.

That said, the recoil of a full house 10mm in a 1911 is still one helluva hand full. The G20 handles the recoil better, but it's got to fit the hand, and that's it's biggest problem.

I have put a carload of full tank 10mm through my Delta Elite and the only things I had to do was to give it a recoil buffer and a new front sight. cosmetically there is some peening of the disconnector slot on the slide, but it doesn't screw with the function at all. The recoil buffer is just a delron wafer about .125" thick and a recoil guide with a shoulder machined on it to fit the buffer. Works like a charm. Got a Glock 20 too. Like the hell outta both.

GLOCK 20 , darn nice, especially with a few options

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=4266

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=4863

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=105

JUST BE AWARE the new 6" slides only swap to the NEWER glock 20 10mm

FWIW, you don't need to go all the way to the DT ammo for some serious thumpin' capability.

The factory Winchester ST JHPs will give you 1200-1250 fps with a 175 gr. JHP (only 5 grs and about 50 fps less than DTs 180 gr. GoldDot loads), and it flat out delivers on critters. For some reason, that SilverTip JHP acts like a bonded bullet in the 10mm. For a "one and done" load, it's about it.

I have a 1911 in 10mm and I don't find the recoil to be a problem.

My 10mm is a Smith 1006. Wouldn't trade it for anything else I've shot. Try .75 inch, three shot groups with selected handloads at 25 yds.
The 1911 Deltas I've played with weren't that accurate and kicked harder.
I won't have any Glock. Not anything like the trigger break I insist on, and if they get used as a club, their slides get ripped off their frame rails, thus permanately rendering the pistol unrepairable. Not me. Haven't had to use a pistol as club for many years now. But won't have a heavy caliber one that can't be so used.
If I had to do it again, it would be a Kimber with adjustable sights and their best trigger. E

Another Glock 20 owner here. 200gr. XTP's at 1250 do a fine job on whitetail deer. Some people don't like the large grip but I've heard rumors that Glock is going to make an "SF" version of the 20. The only modification it needs is a 3.5# connector.

Sounds like another vote for the 610. N Frames make great emergency clubs.


Travis

The "club use" rationale.....

That's a new one......

I'd rather 15 (or 17 rds) on tap, and being able to hit what I am at consistently at 100ish yards, easily, than to be worried whether or not I could b!tchslap some idiot with my now empty pistol.....

Wow.

That was a first for me as well.....

Glocks rule. No doubt.

I just like the .40 for an everyday defense round.
If you can have that in a 4" and be able to load it up with the 10mm for huntin' that would be sweet.

I can't shoot the 10mm real fast and keep em' in the A zone anyway. But that's just me.

Travis

well i own the smith 1006 as well and will also not sell it.i personally think the glock 20 is a decent choice and eventually will probally have one. I would shy away from delta being reputation of wearing out which may be do to neglect then anything else.THE 1006 IS a very accurate pistol.But it seems you are asking new so i would say either glock 20 or kimber which i have no experience with there 10mm but there 45's are great

I've had my Delta since 1987 and have a carload of full tank 10mm ammo through it and it sure as hell ain't worn out.

eviltwin as i stated the reputation plus added i believe this to be more neglect then anything else.

10mm in a 1911

Check out Fusion Firearms

http://www.fusionfirearms.com/

He has several variations including a longslide.

From what I have read he builds a nice one.

To all thanks for your advice. I have a brother in LE who hated the Glock until he fired one in the 10mm when they were testing for a new department issue pistol. He was amazed how easy it was for him to hit center.

I have a friend on S&R who has a S&W 1006 who had to kill a bear with it that kept harassing them as they recovered a body. One shot was all it took. (With the proper permission of course)

I have looked at the Fusions, but they are a little more than I can spend now. It seems the majority of the census is going to Glock. I haven't fired one in awhile and that was in .40 S&W. And they are a lot less expensive than many of the others.

Thanks again.

when that bit about useing an empty gun as a CLUB came up, my first thought was ..why not carry several extra mags....and if you are out of ammo,and if you intend to go toe to toe with some slime ball low life ID strongly suggest, dropping the empty glock and grabbing one of these,
http://www.coldsteel.com/16absj.html
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/csstoreonline_1995_9109187
it does a far better job at damaging some jerk very quick and effectively in train hands than beating on him with any empty pistol,... yeah! old tech but it works against even guys with vests if you know how and where to employ it rapidly, not much better at spit swapping distances

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I had worked at an agency in the mid 90's that issued the S&W 1006, i liked them. They went to 40S&W before i left, but in a Glock. They should of stayed with the 10mm in a Glock instead.

i sold my only 40 and probally only way i'll have another is if i buy a 357 sig with both barrels

Well, guys, clubbing BG's with a pistol isn't something I'd really recommend, but I've done it more times than I like to think about. Never with an empty gun.
Even when you've got grounds to shoot'em sometime it just isn't the thing to do.
Or they are too close and you don't have the grounds to shoot'em. Then you better do something before he decides to take your pistol away from you and... do what he wants. Laws or no laws.
Need to remember that BG's don't play by our rules. We need to. So "other options" may be called for. E

Pulled a Wyatt Earp on a few have you?

I hear you E.

Bad situation.....gun out.....no reason to shoot.....need to put hands on perp.....WHACK!!!

I guess your post was just kind of funny when I read it.


Travis.

+1 on the Fusion, but almost too nice for woods carry. Here are pictures of my Fusion 10mm 6-inch long-slide Traditional Hunter. Recoil is not bad at all. I regularly shoot 250-300 rounds per range session.

That is a sweet pistol. If it came to clubbing them or shooting them with that one, they'd get shot.

Mountainclmbr-

Is the fit and finish on the Fusion as good as I read about??'

How about accuracy????

Been thinkin on getting a custum carry like the one SA makes, however I think I will see if they can put one together for me.

Of course this is after I am employed again and get caught up....

Same here. Remains my favorite handgun ever, the one I'd want at hand if things ever got ugly. Handles everything from 125 jhps to 215 swcs without a hiccup. If I were to buy another it would probably be a Kimber. Glocks are cool if you like them, me I like 1911's, to each his own.

Mine usually gets 150's or 155's these days, but if the only round available was the 175 gr Silvertip that would be just fine too, it's lovely.

Sure hope I have a grandkid who is worthy passing it on to.

I've owned a Delta, Glock, 1006, IAI Javelina, Wyoming Arms Parker, and probably a couple of others. I would recommend any of them, although the Glock would probably be at the bottom of my list. The Witness is a good, trouble-free pistol and doesn't cost a lot. I would put it or the Smith 1006 at the top of the list. Delta's are fine but as others have said, you have to pay attention to the stiffness of the springs.

If I were in the market for a 10mm, the Dan Wesson 1911 would be my first and last stop. The Glock is good, but the grip is REALLY chunky; too chunky for me. The Dan Wesson is completely adorned with Ed Brown parts (nothing feels better than an Ed Brown grip safety), and has a clean, crisp 4.5lb trigger pull right out of the box. They're available with BoMar style adjustable sights if you want adjustables. Really, my only complaint with the Dan Wesson is that they're a Stainless Steel only pistol; I really wish they had a carbon steel option. Regardless, you get a lot of gun with the Dan Wesson.

With light 10mm loads, the 10mm is nearly ideal for defense, and with stout loads, you're good for hunting deer out to 100 yards; what more could you ask for? Honestly, if there's a better all around auto pistol cartridge, I'd like to see it.

I happen to be 10mm-less right now, but I'm anxious to correct that oversight.

Exactly.

Flame suit on and I've got a question. I kinda thought the 10mm was out of favor, am I wrong? Years ago when the 10mm was first introduced and the Glock was the new thing on the block a buddy of mine went out and bought one in that caliber. I shot the gun quite a bit and liked it. Then the .40 S&W came out and it seemed like evryone and his grandpaw had something bad to say about the 10mm. Most of what I heard was the .40 was everything the 10mm should have been. I even heard they were now downloading the 10mm to .40 S&W velocities.

Is the 10mm popular again?

Sorry about the dumb question. I'm not big on pistols. I bought a Milspec 1911 Springfield about 25 years ago and never felt the need to upgrade.

Thanks,
Terry

PS. mountainclmbr, I love that pistol!

Not dumb, but a bit out of sequence. The 10 was adopted by the FBI and they had complaints fwum their wittle gurls that the gun recoiled too hard and it was too big for their widdle hands. The round was downloaded into the 10mm FBI load then a S&W designer shortened it into the 40 cal which went nicely into a 9mm envelope. Less recoil and smaller receivers made one the widdle gurls liked. The 10mm does have snappy recoil and the guns are always on a 45 caliber envelope. It was a cartridge that found favor in guys who wanted some horsepower from a semi that gave them good useable range with a lot of smack. The 10mm is da man.

I have been shooting the 10mm for some time and find it to be almost perfect as an all-around choice. It is powerful enough for use as a hunting round and controlable enough for self-defense.

True it is not as effective for hunting as a .44 Mag., but close enough when ranges are less than 75 yards (and most real-world hunting takes place at close range anyway). It aslo has a bit more recoil than a typical .40 S&W or even .45 ACP, but not so much as to be uncomfortable to an experienced shooter.....and is VERY effective.

The only puzzling thing to me has been the ammo manufacurer's focus on lightweight bullets at high speed. I've never been a believer in the "throw a little pebble faster" theory as opposed to "hit 'em with a bigger rock" idea. The 10mm, for me, is perfect for a 180-200 grain bullet at 1100-1200 fps. The 180's can be found occationally, but a good factory softpoint in the 200 grain is a rare bird indeed. Also don't understand why almost all factory rounds carry a FMJ or hollowpoint as oppased to a good jacketed softpoint designed for hunting......seems to me there would be a market for a 200 grain softpoint.

At the time the 10 started to get popular, the 40 Action Express and the 40 S&W were introduced, the latter two fitting on a 9mm platform as ET said (about the Smith offering anyway). All three enjoyed brief waves of popularity but then LE seemed to settle on the 40 S&W mainly due to following the FBI's lead as they almost always seem to do. It didn't help the 10 any when the 40 surpassed the .357 on Evan Marshall's stopping power index and shot into the number one spot.

There is no doubt that, for somebody who handloads, the 10 has always been the top cartridge of it's diameter. If you're just using it for self-defense, there is little need for it though. But if you're using it for dual self-defense, defending against man and beast, the 10 is clearly superior.

I don't think the 10 is currently having much of a revival. This is just a spot on the internet that has a lot of educated shooters who recognize a great cartridge when they see one.

Ok, it just caught me off guard to see all the replies on this thread. Like I said I've shot it quite a bit for a man that's never actually owned a gun in that cartridge. It suited me fine and I had no problem with the recoil.

Terry

Am I the only one here old enough to still refer to the .40 S&W.....as the .40 "Short & Weak"?

TexasRick,

The reason for the lighter bullets is because in heaver bullets, the 10mm has a tendency to penetrate far too deep for personal defense purposes. Perfect for field use, but probably best to use the lighter (within reason, I like 155gr) bullets for defense in the 10mm.

Ditto.

How deep does the 180 grain penetrate?

Depends on the 180 gr. load and the starting velocity......

FWIW, the Winchester STHP loads (175s at 1250) will fully penetrate a deer, quartering away, at 50 yards or less (haven't had the opportunity to try them further out..... yet).

" The 10 was adopted by the FBI and they had complaints fwum their wittle gurls that the gun recoiled too hard and it was too big for their widdle hands. ..... It was a cartridge that found favor in guys who wanted some horsepower"


THE 10 MM is about the ideal compromise between power/penetration,/recoil in a handgun for defence, and while its true it takes training and some skill to use its far from difficult, the FBI shoild have allowed the (GALS) that could not handle the 10MM to use a 9mm , s&w 40 or 357SIG but allow the serious guys that wanted to use the (BEST TOOL FOR THE JOB) to continue to use it rather than force everyone to use the lesser calibers so everyone was handicaped with a barely adequate tool.

THINK ABOUT IT, they swapped to the 10mm after autopsy results on a criminal killed durring a miami shootout where agents were killed even after making good hits with a 38 and 9mm on a guy with a ruger 223 mini-14
identical hits with a 10mm would have penetrated deeper and made larger more destructive wounds, dropping the criminal much faster
the main gunman was hit but the bullet failed to reach the heart, 6" inches deeper and the results would have been differant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

I haven't read about the 10mm in years and had thought that it had been downloaded from what it had started out as due to wear in pistols other than the Bren 10... now it would appear that this is not the case? It would be accurate to say that a full power 10mm is hands down a more effective as a 50+ yard deer round than any plus p .45 acp round?
If the above is correct that makes it very interesting indeed. I forgot what the details are about shooting cast bullets in a Glock barrel.... is it important to replace the factory barrel before using cast bullets? If so is it also correct that a .40 S&W barrel can be used on a 10mm pistol without further modification?

Thanks for the links.... I'm frugal that's why Was thinking cheaper easier to find .40 for practice with cast bullets if lead gums up factory Glock barrels... jacketed full power 10 mm loads for hunting/carry in general.

Whew---after looking at the FUSION pistols I will be getting one in 10mm. The 10mm is the ballistic equivalent of the 41 mag for all practical purposes..

They say not to shoot handloads out of stock Glock barrels. I did for years before I heard about this caution. I guess there have been some guns blow up due to the not fully supported chamber. I now have a standard length Storm Lake barrel in mine. I haven't shot it enough yet to know if it's more accurate than the stock barrel but maybe I'm safer and that's not a bad thing.

2ndwind -
Glock strongly cautions against using reloaded ammunition in any of their products. Sure, lots of manufacturers say this, but in a Glock, you'd better listen.

One of the things that makes a Glock so reliable is the deeply angled feed ramp. Problem is, that feed ramp ends up poorly supporting the base of the cartridge. With new ammunition this is safe, but when the brass has been worked a bit, it becomes weaker in the base, right where the Glock is weak. There have been countless stories of Glocks that have gone kB!, the vast majority of which have to do with reloaded ammunition, or modifications to the gun.

Glocks use of polygonal rifling exacerbates the situation somewhat, and really sours things when you use cast bullets. Cast bullets in a polygonal barrel really bumps up the pressure, and the Glock has much less margin of error because of the poorly supported chamber.

As a defensive pistol, I think a Glock is a great tool. As a field gun, I really require hand loads, which means no Glock for me.

If you don't muck with the design of the gun, and use factory new ammunition, the Glock will serve you well. Deviate from that plan, and you've entered a game of Russian Roulette; sooner or later you're going to get burned.

My Fusion 10mm has really tight fit, but I did not have any break-in period. It shot well right out of the box. Full length guide rod....I am not sure it really does anything.



Here is a target that I printed ahead of time, but I finished off the remaining rounds in a box, maybe 4-5 rounds, so this target is really 12-13 rounds at 50 ft standing, two hands. It was a dimly lit indoor range and I had to put a dot on the back of the target and shoot the target backwards to see the sights against a light background. I have not shot it at longer ranges from a rest yet, but I know I can do much better especially if lighting was better.

nice....

IF and when I get caught up I will have to see about Fusion putting together a custom carry style for me.

with cheap eagle ammo at that nice shooting

Thanks for the clarification on Glocks and handloads.... I had thought it was just that they would lead badly with cast bullets.....

Kevin, I had been led to believe that an aftermarket barrel would "cure" the Glock's flaw with reloads. Was that naive?

Here is a group using DT Hard Cast WFNGC Beartooth rounds. It was not best conditions, it was 3:00 pm and I did not have lunch yet. Was pretty shaky after about 300 rounds before this target. The DT velocity is stated for 4.6 inch Glock 20 bbl so I don't think these rounds will lead a standard Glock BBL unless large qty of rounds which would be costly.


Target is for 50 ft with the DT 200gr WFNGC. Don't remember how many rounds, but probably 2 8-rnd mags + 1 for 17 total.


Edit to add: this is for the DT 200GR WFNGC, but not in a Glock, in a Fusion 10mm Long-Slide. It was a gun Fusion had in stock, but just what I wanted, a semi-custom for $1155!

Very nice!

How much does that pistol weigh?

Rick -
It depends on the design of the barrel. Some aftermarket barrels are simply "match" grade versions of the original barrel, meanding they use cut rifling and maintain the same feed ramp angle. Some have a steeper feed ramp angle, which allows for more support of the case head. Unfortunately, I don't follow Glock accessories all that closely so I can't tell you which is which. I guess you could contact the manufacturer of the barrel and ask them.

It really kinda sucks because Glock has painted themselves into a non-reloading corner. For some that's just fine, but for most of us here at the campfire, we like our handloads.

Kevin, you stated that the heavier bullets in 10 mm penetrated too much. How much is too much?

On the postage scale, empty mag inserted it comes in right at 45oz (2 lb, 13 oz).

This is from Doubletap. I think the gun was a G20.

All of these tests were done using 10% ballistic gelatin provided by Vyse gelatin using all FBI protocols and 4 layers of denim and two layers of light cotton T-shirt in front of the gelatin.

DoubleTap 10mm
135gr JHP @ 1600fps - 11.0" / .70" frag nasty
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1475fps - 13.5" / .88"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"
165gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1425fps - 14.75" / .82"
180gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1330fps - 16.0" / .85"
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1300fps - 15.25" / .96"
200gr XTP @ 1250fps - 19.5" / .72"
230gr Equalizer @ 1040fps - 11.0" and 17.0" / .62" and .40"

The XTP is a much tougher bullet than the Gold Dot. DT calls it a "Controlled Expansion" round.

One of the interesting things I've picked up along the way is the difference in killing power between the .40 S&W and the 10mm.
JJHack has guided lots of pistol hunters to black bears in the PNW. He says the .40 just doesn't cut it in his book for blackies. The 10mm does.
What I find impressive about the 10mm is not only it's power, but it's power at the longer ranges. It shoots plenty flat and hits plenty hard way out there. Better than the .357 with heavy bullets but not up to the .41 Magnum. Pretty impressive from an 11 rd. pistol. Way better than either the .45 ACP or the 9mm. completely different animals. E

You ever try a 45 ACP with 230s at 1000 FPS or 265s at 900 FPS
or even a 185 at 1120FPS?

Try some those loads "E" and you might not think that the 45ACP is so amemic...

Yes. My comments concerned the long range, 200 yds. plus performance, not the up close, gun fighting ranges.
I've used and carried 1911 .45's for over 45 yrs. Killed game with them, and used them on the street. My "go to," "do anything" pistols are my 1911 .45's. 10mm's are not as good a pistol for lots of economical target shooting, for instance. They tear up small game too much. A mild wadcutter .45 ACP load works much better for things like that. E

Do a lot of 200 yard shooting with a 10mm do you?

Do you have any more info on loads that will do that? I had given some thought to a .460 Rowland..... but loads like that would be just fine for say 50 yard whitetails.

The Corbon and Tarus loads with the 185 grain Barnes XPB will get 1100 plus. The Buffalo Bore 230 grain Gold Dot will do 970 to 1000 FPS depending on the temp when Chronoing. The 230 grain Remington HP in the green and white box will also get 950 plus The 265 grain is a hard cast by BTB and is a relaod....

Thanks. Which do you think would make the best whitetail load.... I'd forgotten about the Barnes bullet... <sorry not meaning to hijack thread.... just frugal>

The Barnes. Eating lead is not frugal.

The medical cost only start to add up after your ingested lead level gets so high.... they say memory can be effected fairly early on.... what were we talking about???

You have a .460 don't you Rick?

I dunno....maybe...............460?

They are quite close in much of the testing that I have done, but I think that the Barnes has a slight edge in performance and that is what I am carring










The rounds tested were 185 grain DPX, Buffalo Bore 230 Gold Dot +P, Hornady 230 grain XTP +P, in 45 ACP
In 357 Mag the 145 grain Silver Tip and the 158 Gold Dot by Speer mwere tested
In the 41 Mag the 170 JHC load by Buffalo Bore. This load does 1550 FPS from a 4" barrel S&W Mountain Gun

The 230 grain XTP +P made it into the 3rd board, the DPX, the 230 B.B +P Gold Dot load in 45 ACP,and the 145 grain Silvertip in 357 Mag. made it into the 4th board and dented the 5th
The 170 grain JHC in 41 Mag made it into the 5th board and dented the 6th and the 158 grain Gold Dot in 357 Mag penetrated into the 6th board

I used to only hunt deer with pistols growing up in Western NY. No rifle hunting was allowed. I moved to NC in 1993 and have been trying to make up for lost rifle hunting time ever since. IIRC I have only shot two deer with revolvers in the past 15 years. One was with a long seated .44 mag 300 gr XTP from my Redhawk... the second with a 210 grain Barnes bullet from my Smith and Wesson classic. I had to crawl through some swamp to find the deer shot with the XTP the other deer was a dead right there deer. Not a big sample for sure, but I was still impressed with the performance of the Barnes pistol bullet.
This maybe the year for some more pistol hunting....

I agree the Barnes bullets offer excellent terminal performance in both rifle and handguns...

I'm jinks with Barnes rifle bullets, XXX version and all.... but I'm all for them in muzzleloaders and pistol....

Anyone try the EEA Witness or Dan Wesson in the 10mm?

I've handled both.

Can't stand the EAA (feels cheap.... NOT what I want in a handgun); the Dan Wesson is NIIIIIIIICCCCEEEEE!

I agree with VA, the Dan Wesson's are very nice. If I were in the market for a 1911, I'd be grabbing a Dan Wesson in 10mm in a New York minute.

If I didn't have a G20, I likely would as well.

How do the Dan Wessons comnpare to the Kimbers?

The Fusions look interesting too, but trying to stay with production guns.

I'm a big fan of Kimbers because I think your dollar goes pretty far wtih a Kimber. But the Dan Wesson's are really the nicest out of the box, non-custom, 1911's out there today.

Something that's huge for me, is that Dan Wesson uses the Ed Brown grip safety, which is clearly the best feeling, highest grip, grip safety out there. I can live with other grip safeties, but when you pick up a 1911 with an Ed Brown GS, the difference is immediate and obvious.

The rest of the parts are quite comparable to a Kimber, but the overall fit and finish seems somewhat superior on the Dan Wessons.

Really, the Dan Wesson is the best 1911, and no one really knows they're out there. I would just love to have one in 10mm.

Agreed, across the board. And I'm a big fan of Kimber.

What is a real world price on a Dan Wesson 1911?

$700-800ish, depending on set-up, model, etc.

Well I hate Blocks (Glocks) so this was my choice

I took me 18 years but I finally got it. A new in box 10mm Auto S&W 1006. YUP! New in Box!

Paid dearly for it but what the heck!

DAMN, that thing's cool.


Travis

POP - Nice pistol, you're going to enjoy it. The S&W's were built completely right for the 10mm cartridge. The 1911 platform is not quite enough for the 10mm. Kinda like how the K frame was never quite enough for the .357 magnum...It works, but they wear out much faster.

S&W engineered that gun to be a 10mm from the get go. I recently saw a S&W 1026 for sale and if I had the cash, I would have picked it up. The 1026 is the same gun but has a frame mounted decocker (where a decocker belongs). The 1006 is such a versatile handgun, especially with the adjustable sights like you have.

I'm not a DA auto fan, but I'd take that one. Congratulations!

Me likey much!

Boy Kevin what are you trying to do.... keep me from spending money??? First it's "Glock really means it when they say no reloads"..... then there is all kinds of praise for the Dan Wesson 1911s <I remember major quality control issues from their now long ago revolvers.... never would have given a DW 1911 a second look.... now I'm thinking the bobtail looks pretty sweet> Next VA posts something about Double Tap ammo and the range of 10 MM performance is now mild to very wild.

I'm starting to think I need a 10 MM because it could be both small enough to conceal and enough gun to cleanly take a few deer with and now this about about a 1911 really isn't quit right for a 10 MM. I think I now have gun looney whiplash

Here is a review of the DW bobtail in .45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CrcoRKG3E0

2ndwind - Not trying to rain on your parade, but when you've been in the game as long as I have, you learn the weaknesses of every pistol design out there.

I happen to know the chap (in a round about way) that was called in to consult with Colt on the 10mm Delta pistol. The original design had a MUCH heavier slide and a 22lb recoil spring (keeping in mind, the most common load back then was the really poweful Norma load...there was no 10mm lite). Colt rejected this idea and used a standard weight slide and a dual captive spring setup. When frames were cracking early, they simply milled out the slide rail over the slide stop (which actually turned out to be a good idea). The original design went on to become the Peter's Stahl conversion, which was top notch.

The 10mm 1911's are THE setup for a 1911 in my book, but I realize that a steady diet of 10mm in a 1911 will eventually give me a cracked frame and possibly a cracked slide. I don't sweat that because it's easy and not all that expensive to just swap out the slide or frame if and when that happens.

For most people, they're never going to shoot enough full power 10mm to ever threaten a Dan Wesson 1911. Just like most people never wore out their S&W M19's or M66's.

Thanx fellas!!!!!


A lot of power for an auto.



Cartridge : 10 mm Auto (SAAMI)
Bullet : .400, 135, Nosler JHP 44852
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.260 inch or 32.00 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch or 127.0 mm
Powder : Alliant POWER PISTOL

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 72 9.28 1232 455 19841 5573 79.8 0.552
-18.0 74 9.51 1260 476 20906 5777 80.9 0.539
-16.0 76 9.74 1289 498 22017 5982 82.0 0.526
-14.0 78 9.98 1317 520 23174 6186 83.1 0.514
-12.0 79 10.21 1345 542 24379 6390 84.2 0.501
-10.0 81 10.44 1373 565 25634 6594 85.2 0.489
-08.0 83 10.67 1401 589 26940 6796 86.2 0.477
-06.0 85 10.90 1429 612 28300 6997 87.2 0.465
-04.0 87 11.14 1457 637 29715 7197 88.1 0.454 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 88 11.37 1485 661 31187 7395 89.0 0.444 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 90 11.60 1513 686 32718 7591 89.8 0.433 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 92 11.83 1541 712 34311 7785 90.7 0.424 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 94 12.06 1569 738 35969 7977 91.5 0.414 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 96 12.30 1597 764 37692 8165 92.2 0.405 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 97 12.53 1624 791 39486 8351 92.9 0.396 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 99 12.76 1652 818 41351 8534 93.6 0.387 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Try the Winchester SilverTip JHP factory loads.

Hands down, they are my go-to favorite for the 10. They just do everything very, very well.

Nice Smith, Pop.

I use Power Pistol for my 10mm loads. I primarily use 165 Golden Sabers. Good mid-weight bullet.

Enjoy your 10!

+1 on the Silvertip, it's an outstanding go anywhere, do anything load for the 10mm.

Is the Peter Stahl conversion still available.

Not that I know of.