Hello
I Picked up this S&W classic Pre-25 chambered in .45 ACP Caliber Early this new year. It was lying in my dealers show case and I had been looking for a Pre-25 for awhile. I had a model 25-2 which fired the .45 ACP but it suffered real tight accuracy so I traded it off. This one shipped out in December 1959 and is late for a Five screw variation. I soon learned it was scary accurate as the Test Target shows and have now chosen it and the Hand load I used for this years deer hunting season that Opens this coming weekend, I hope to drop a Deer with it... TheGeneral

...and your hunting load is?

A very beautiful gun General... I have had several 25-2s but the only .45 ACP revolver I have at present is a 625 Mountain Gun.

Bob

You're killing me here........
Does look very accurate, and beautiful besides!

I'll be carrying my Freedom Arms 97 in .44 Spl, and then maybe my S&W 629 Mountain Gun.




Good luck deer hunting!

Hello Bob
I appreciate your Kind words. I tried every load I could think of in the Model 25-2 I had but could only get medium accuracy results out of it. I alway's felt that the cylinder throats of that gun were a Little large as it would not group consistent. This One sure lay's them in there so I feel good taking it along...The Load used was 8.0 Grains of Accurate Arms # 7 Powder on top of a Winchester Standard Primer and a 200 Grain Rainier semi wad cutter style bullet. The Only difference for hunting with this load will be the bullets as I Plan on switching to a 180 Grain Hornady XTP Bullet and perhaps some more powder to speed it up a bit...TheGeneral.

Very nice, and good luck!

Kansas has minimum case length requirements for handguns as far as deer go, so no .45's allowed. 1.28 minimum, so no 10mm either, although it would be more than enough for Whitetails.

What kind of velocity are you getting with that load.

PS Beautiful piece.

Sure. Especially since you can pretty much duplicate the ballistics of the standard pressure (non+P) .45 Long Colt, which has been long known for it's effectiveness on deer sized game within thirty yards or so. Stupid law, as usual.

Hello Hawkeye
I got 835 on average with the Target Load I shot. The Hunting load is 2 Grains more and I have not fired it yet but plan to this week... TheGeneral.

My Springfield 1911

General, you are the maestro of neat Smith's!! I'm sure that I'm not the only one around here that turns alittle green with envy when you post!

In 1974 as a newly married 2nd Lt., my new wife bought me a S&W 1955 Target that we couldn't afford. It was wonderfully accurate with Auto-Rim ammo, but not particularly accurate with half-moon clips & ACP hardball (I don't think that there were full moon clips around in those days). My wife passed away about 10 years ago and I gave her Model 19 to our daughter and the 1955 Target to our son. He now shoots it with ACP ammo in full-moon clips and it may be my imagination, but it seems to shoot much better than it did with half-moon clips. That seems improbable, but....???? What did you shoot that stellar group with? Auto-Rim, Half-moon ACP, Full-moon ACP?

BTW, I really like the photos of your stuff---keep em comin!

Whether the law is stupid or not is a separate question, but I'm pretty sure he just meant the 45 ACP. The .44 Mag. is legal and the 45 Colt has a longer case than it does. So does the 44-40.

Ya, .357 mag and .44 mag both are legal. Pretty much anything rimless is not.

As far as the law being stupid, I'm pretty sure deer wouldn't like a .45 caliber, 230gr. bullet at 900+fps inside about 30 yards. They would likely have a negative reaction to that.

She's bute,just curious why the light for cal.bullet?

Nice looking handgun and the should CERTAINLY do the job.

...a thought....I did a lot of work with the .45 AR back in the 1970s and 80s as it was my wife's gun of choice. Was also loading duty ammo for Dallas area officers who were carrying 25-2s... I had bought one for a duty weapon but as soon as she shot it I was relegated back to my 29-2...

SR4756 is the powder to try if you can find some...I have three loads listed for this powder...and start from a few grains below...

Remington AR case SR4756 11.0 200 Grain Speer JHP 1307 fps

Remington AR case SR4756 10.0 200 Grain Speer JHP 1208 fps

Remington AR case SR4756 11.5 185 Grain Sierra JHC 1162 fps


Accuracy load:

Remington AR case Unique 7.0 225 Grain Speer JHP 840 fps



Also shot the 225 Speer over both 9.0 and 10.0 grains of SR4756 but they were not chronographed.

I can tell that the old no longer made 200 grain Speer HP called the "Flying Ashtray" at 1170 fps kills both deer and attempted cop-killers in their tracks... They turn inside out and still come out the "off side"...

The 225 at 1140 fps turns into a perfect mushroom and penetrates more than the 200 and looses only about 5 grains in weight.

Just some thoughts...Bob

Wow, those velocities are nothing short of stunning in a case that short.

SR4756 seems to be one of those "magic" powders. It turns Specials into near Magnums... From what I read a long time ago it was the powder that Remington used in many of their Magnums.

I have used it in 9mm, .38 Special, .38 Super, .44 Special, .41 Magnum and .45 Colt with excellent results... And these were not Ruger Only Loads...they were all developed in S&Ws.

Bob

Hello Bob
I see that Powder you metioned is still available. I will have to try some thanks for the heads up on it. How is it as far as case pressures go ? This is what was said about it. Regards, TheGeneral


SR 4756
This fine grained, easy metering propellant has long been a favorite of upland and waterfowl handloaders. Top velocities with great patterns are legendary. Like 800-X, SR4756 performs extremely well in the big handgun cartridges. Always a top choice

Cases usually just drop out or smoothly eject... As with anything start a few grains under max, watch for pressure signs in your gun and use a chronograph.

With the 25-2 I have also found that some bullets like the 200 grain Speer JHP were .451 and didn't hold the rifling as well as the 225s that were .452. The rifling on the 25-2 is not as deep as later S&W .45s. Cast bullets that were very hard and cast slightly oversize seem to shoot better than the soft ones...

Bob

ps...crimping can be a PITA. Use an undersize case expander or one that just flares the case mouth as you need as much bullet pull as possible. I had Lee make me a factory crimp die but have not had time to use it as I mostly shoot .41 Magnum..

Hello Bob
I checked out the IMR web site for using this powder. it seems their upper limit is a Powder Puff Load compared to what you have loaded in the past... TheGeneral



185 GR. HDY JSWC IMR SR 4756 .451" 1.135" 7.4 853 12,300 CUP 8.2 991 16,700 CUP

Very, very pretty revolver, general. Nice work on the target bench, too!

General Stuart - thanks again for sharing your excellent photos! Sure raises the bar for class around here.

That is most correct El' General. But if you call Buffalo Bore you will find that many of their customers are shooting not only their .45 AR +P rounds but also .45 Super in Smith .45 ACP revolvers...5-10K over the loads approved by The Book.

Remember that .45 ACP/AR revolvers are all rated like the old soft 1917s for SAMMI Specs... that is why none of the manufacturers will buck the liability system...

Bob

Nice gun and a certain deer killer. My 25-2 was also so-so in the accuracy dept with .454" throats. I bought some .454" sized 250 Keith's from Montana Bullet Works and loaded them pretty stout in AR brass and the thing became very, very accurate. Amazing how many revolvers have been made without, apparently, the manufacturer understanding the importance of throat diameter.

Hello Bob
I really Appreciate your thoughts and advice here in Loading the .45 AR cartridge. I Loaded up some Hornady 185 Grain XTP Bullets and headed off to the range the day before yesterday. The load shot Horrid being so far to the left I could Not correct the P. O. I. with my adjustable sight even turned all the way right on my S&W. I left the Range disgruntled but not defeated and headed to the local gun shop to seek out a Crimping die. The dies I have been using are R.C.B.S. Carbide dies and of course R.C.B.S. does Not include a factory crimping die in their Three die deluxe sets. I Purchased a Lee roll crimp die and went home to load some more ammo. I selected the load shown using the Rainier 200 Grain Semi Wad cutter style bullets and increased my Powder some and returned to the Range yesterday morning to Test the load. In using the new Lee rolled crimp die, I saw True accuracy right off the bat and had to center my Rear sight blade again where it should be. I Placed a Test Target at the 50 Yard line and drew down on it. I Plastered the Test Target with hits, but I must tell you that the smaller Target size is very hard to see at the 50 Yard line compared to the 25 Yard line where I had shot the tights groups shown in my picture in this thread, but I was not looking for Tight Groups at the 50 Yard line, I was more Interested in hitting the smaller size test Target that I Placed there as it was smaller than the actual Kill zone of a Deer. I am very Pleased with the results and will later on today Post a picture of the Target I fired upon at the 50 Yard line. I can assure you if I see a Deer this Saturday, there will be Blood shed & it will be in the Freezer, now that I have solved my Crimping issue, Thanks... TheGeneral

General, it makes me sad that you leave one of those nice Mod 57's home on opening day of deer season.

Wow, I did not know that the 10mm was not legal for KS deer. I carried a G20 for the 2009 season. I was back with the .41mag Blackhawk last year.

Hello
Here is the Test Target I shot at the 50 Yard distance with my Pre-25. I can tell you that the Test Target looked very small against the Patridge sights on my revolver... TheGeneral