I've been meaning to put this little primer together for a while, but just never got a round tuit. But this w/e I had some time on my hands, so here ya go.

OK, the problem as far as I'm concerned is that the world is full of critters that need to be blown to smithereenies at every opportunity. By which I mean any spider larger than a half-dollar, any venomous snake, and any rodent that takes up residence where I don't want it.

Since I most always have a blaster strapped to my hip, I thought it might serve if I was to buy some CCI shotshells and see how they worked. Well, they don't work very well at all, unless you're REAL close to the critter in question, which is kind of contrary to the whole point of carryin' a blaster.

So in 2001 I read an article in the Gun Digest handguns annual about how to make "magnum" 45 Colt and 44 Mag shotshells. I tried it out and found a recipe that works like gangbusters. I've been slayin' snakes, tree-rats, and mice with these things for over 10 years.

Here's the deal: a CCI 44 Magnum shotshell holds about 100 gr of #9 shot. But if you make your own "magnum" shotshells, your 44 Mag shells will hold about 180 gr of shot, and your 45 Colt shells will hold 200 gr of #9 shot, and about 210 gr of #12 shot! The difference on the receiving end is truly impressive.

Since I almost always carry a .45 Colt revolver when out hunting, I mostly make and use this caliber. I have a handful of .44 Mag shotshells (which are a LOT harder to make, trust me).

So here's how you do it. (This might take a few posts to get it all done. Please bear with me.)

Okay. First thing, always start with a clean, well-organized reloading bench. A messy reloading bench is a recipe for disaster. Don't ask me how I know this.



Now, the base cartridge for your .45 Colt "magnum" shotshell is the .444 Marlin case.



What you need to do first thing is measure the length of your SHORTEST .45 Colt revolver (cylinder length, I mean, not barrel). For me, it's the Single Action Army. Here's a Uberti SAA clone, the blackpowder first generation frame of which is my shortest 45 Colt cylinder.



Once you've measured your cylinder, you need to measure out your 444 Marlin cases...



...and then cut them to length in a vise using a hacksaw. I forgot to take pix of me sawing up cases. Trust me, it's not that hard if I can do it. Use your case-mouth chamfering tool to clean up the edges are you're ready to size the necks.

The big problem with the 444 Marlin case is that it binds in the cylinder throats. So what I do is run the 444 Marlin cases up into a .44 Magnum sizing die to narrow the neck down, like so:



As you can see, I size the necks down about 1/2". It's not rocket science, all you need to do is size 'em down until you can fit them in the cylinder without pushing them too hard.

By the way, as any serious reloader will tell you... after making sure you have a clean bench for your projects, you should never, never, EVER, imbibe alcohol while reloading.




Beer's okay, though.

Now, prime your cases using large rifle primers. Large pistol primers won't work. Don't ask me how I know this. Just use large rifle primers.

[img]http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb332/DocDarkside/444Marlinbrassheadstamp.jpg[/img]

Charge the cases with 6.0 gr of Unique...

[img]http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb332/DocDarkside/Adding6grUnique.jpg[/img]

And now you're ready for the wads.

I use AA .410 wads, as shown. They are too long, though, so you'll need to push one into a powder-charged case, then mark it with a felt marker to know how short to cut them. Then you cut a bunch of wads up with a utility knife.

[img]http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb332/DocDarkside/410wads.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb332/DocDarkside/Marking410wads.jpg[/img]

Okay, now after you cut your wads down to size, fit them in the cases, but not all the way down.

Get some acrylic/silicone bathroom sealant/caulk, and squeeze some out on a piece of cardboard. Use some sort of tool thingy to spread some silicone caulk on the wad petals. This will serve to glue the wads into the cases, so they don't fall out when you're walking around with them in your pockets. Again, don't ask me how I know this.It's a long story and it involves a washing machine and a very expensive repair bill.

Just glue the damn wads into the cases.






Now you're ready for the shot! Isn't this exciting?

I like #12 shot for most purposes. I'll show you why a bit later. You can buy #12 shot, which some people call "dust", from Ballistic Products Inc. They're on the innanet and if it can be fit into a shotgun of any kind, including a 45 Colt handgun, they sell it.




I also use #8, or better yet #9 shot, for squirrels and flying targets like claybirds, starlings, and such like.

Put your shot in a powder pan, like this, and pour the shot into the wad/case combo. You want the shot to come almost up to the rim of the case. Use a 3/8 or 5/16 bolt to tamp down the shot. You'll need to add a bit more shot on top after that, to bring the shot load up to within about 1/8" of the rim of the case.

Great tutorial Doc gonna save this except load 44 mags.

Thanks for the pics. That's not unlike to the method Hamilton Bowen outlines in his book "The Custom Revolver" for making loads for his .45 Caliber Paradox Rugers.

Thats awesome, thanks for taking the time to show us how to do that.

Okay, after you get the shot in the shells, you need to seal up the end. I tried card wads, but they suck. Either they don't hold the shot in place, or they screw up your pattern.

So what I do is seal the end of the case with silicone caulk, like so:



Push the caulk down into the cartridge cases using a wet finger (same as finishing a bead on a bathtub). I then push a couple-several pieces of shot into the caulk so I can tell what size shot the cartridge has in it.

Let it cure for 24 hours, and your shotshells are good to go. They won't shake loose or leak in your pockets because the silicone seals 'em up tight.

Here's some shot patterns from this afternoon. First, #8 shot at 2 yards and 4 yards. These were shot out of a Ruger BH 7.5" barrel.






As you can see, the 2-yard pattern is pretty tight, but at 4 yards it's got some "holes" in it that are as big as a snake's head, which isn't good. I don't have any #9 shot right now, so I couldn't show you how much better #9 patterns than #8 does. Regardless, you probably want to keep your shots on snakes inside a range of 2-3 yards if you're using #8 shot.

On the other hand, #12 shot is a napalm bomb at 2 yards and 4 yards:





They might call it "dust", but let me tell you that these tiny pellets will bounce back off a pattern board at 2 yards and draw blood!

But the real tale is in the damage they do on tissue. Since I didn't have any snakes handy to shoot, here's a tomater and a lime shot with the #12 shot at 3 yards:




I like the #12 shot not only because of its dense pattern, but the shot is too light to do much collateral damage. You can shoot rats, mice, and other critters in the garage or barn with these loads and not have to worry about your background... the shot are too small to put a hole in sheet metal or tires or such.

#8 shot does a pretty good number on the fruit as well:

[img]http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb332/DocDarkside/Fruitand8shot.jpg[/img]



You can make a similar shotshell for a .44, but the parent case is a lot harder to work with. I've used .303 British cases for my .44 loads, but you need to grind down the rim to get them to fit and it takes a lot of time. But like I said, once you've got your cases made, they reload quickly and they last for freakin' ever.

The .45 Colt shotshells are pretty quick to load up, once you have your cases made. For walkin' around in the brush, I load one shotshell up front in the cylinder, with the rest of the loads being a standard cast bullet load. A load of #9's will kill squirrels out to about 4-5 yards. But when I go wading the rivers with a flyrod, I will load up 2 or 3 shotshells because the water moccasins down here are pretty aggressive.

pretty interesting stuff, even though I don't have a .45 Colt at the moment I definitely do need to straighten up my reloading bench, though, so it's at least as neat as yours

The .445 Supermag case has the same head as the .44 mag, and is about .325" longer. Starline sells the brass, so it may be a good candidate for the .44 mag shot shell.

so what's the diameter of a .410 wad? ~.415 or so? It fits a .44 mag case?

Yeah, a 410 wad fits in a 44 cal case.

Those look pretty keen. A lot of folks use wax to fill the ends. The thing I don't fully understand is your parent case. Why the .444? Why not use the .460 S&W instead, probably negating the need to cut the case and also allowing for a tighter fit in the cylinders? A .454 Casull could also be utilized, which would for sure be easier to obtain.

An evil snake accosted my daughter out by the old cow shed the other day but unfortunately the dread viper had hid by the time I made my next round armed with the Governor. The thing actually reared up and hissed at her.

If you don't have a 45 Colt at the moment, you need to forget about cleaning the bench for the time being and get yourself out and buy a 45!

I started making these shells back in 2001, at which time the .460 didn't exist. There was a reason for not using the 454 case, but damned if I can remember what it was. In any case, I've still got a bunch of these cut-down 444 cases on hand, so that's what I use. When I run low on 'em I'll likely switch to the 460 case.

"Tighter fit" ain't the problem. One thing I didn't discuss above was that the first time you fire these shells, you'll only get about 2/3 the shot in them because you have to fire-form the cases to fill the cylinders, as it were.



That's a damn shame.

I wasn't aware of the .445 Supermag case. Thanks, I'm gonna get some and see how they work.

The SAA and I just don't get along that well, but someday I'll have one of the stainless .45 Bisleys

Now you're talkin', T&C...

I gotta admit that if I had ever heard of using a longer case filled with shot, I can't remember it. Seems like a very good idea and thanks for the tip.

I reloaded shotshells clear back in high school on a Lee. First reloading experience I had and I've never liked it. I knew that in a pinch, I could reload some shotshells for handguns, like the .44 Mag., but I just wasn't into it, like I said last year, when I got the Judge.

I understand about fireforming the case, but for some reason, I just feel like the closer the initial fit, the better. The .444 isn't exactly readily available either, unless I'm mistaken. I've never owned one and don't pay that much attention to availability, though they're probably...possibly a bit more available than the ones I mentioned or the Supermag.

Anyway, thanks for the idea.

Nice job, good looking shotshell ---- However, 44 Special/Mag CCI capsules hold 140 grains of shot -- not 100. I load them every Spring with 7 1/2 or 8 or 9 shot. The #12 looks good, too.

Neat thread. That reloading room looks familiar ... you a member over on the Marlin Owners forum by chance Doc? Seems I have seen pics of that reloading room over there.

You drinking Blue Moon while reloading? Shame on you.

Another cup of sorts, when you can find the right diameter, are straws, (I use the ones from Hardees), crimped and flattened on one end, then waxed-over for the cap although I cap with a piece of paper first to keep the wax out of the lead.

I too use an empty case that I've sanded sharp along the rim to punch wads ... but I use cork shelving liner material you can buy in a roll for cheap. It works great and stays flat when I am ramming it home with a wooden dowel rod.

Fair enough, I was just using the figure quoted from the article in the 2001 book I used as my source for this project.

The value of 40 or 60 more grains of shot may be a quibble or not, but the density and uniformity of the shot patterns I get with these shotshells is a LOT better than I get with the blue plastic CCI shot cups.

Nope, ain't me. I don't post on the Marlin forum, seein's how I don't have a Marlin at present. And I've only had this reloadin' setup for about 4 months. I moved here last September and my gear is still a mite disorganized, to say the least.



Yer right. I usually drink Grain Belt while reloading.



Great idea! I've been tryin' to figger out how to make a workable shotshell for my 357 revolvers. I have a few 357 Maximum cases lying around, which work reasonably well for length, but without a plastic wad the patterns suck big time. If I can find a drinking straw diameter that fits the case, it might just work!

The number 12 shot is the schitt. One shot with this stuff will turn a small rodent into jelly. It's freakin' rodent napalm, I tells ya!

Veeeery interesting. Neat idea and nice job explaining/illustrating the process. I think I read an article once where someone used .410 shotshells cut down too.

A little mess on the bench allows one to have everything at arms reach in order to find them quickly. Now where did I leave that shellholder?

I've had good luck with the Speer capsules in .45 Colt and #12 shot for snakes. It works much better than the larger shot sizes fro pattern density on vermin up close - not so much for larger furred critters further away.

Excelllent Doc looks like a great shot shell

Thanks, John. I suppose to some people it's just a waste of time, but if I didn't have these "magnum" shotshells for my 45's I'd prolly have to go out and buy a Judge!


Unthinkable!!!


(...hope CY don't see this...;) )

Huh. wonder what I can do with a .480 Ruger...

No excuse for somebody as rich as you not getting the best.

It's always good to have more tricks up your sleeve. I read the whole thread with interest. I thought you had a Dillon.

Rich? Ha!

I'm just a simple country doctor, dude. And a dee-vorced one, at that!



Got a couple of 'em, a 650 and a SDB, and I need more!

I use the Lee turret press for most of my small-run stuff. I've got a dozen or so calibers set up in the quick-change turrets, so I can crank out a half-dozen cartridges or a hundred in less time than it takes to set up the Dillon.

I use to do the same thing with 45-70. You need to cut a 3x5 card to wrap around the .410 shot cup to make it fit just right.I poured in the shot and then put a 1/8" think piece of cork over it and then put a light crimp on the brass to keep it in.great for grouse.

Similar shot rounds can be made of just about any pistol cartridge uisng two gas checks with the shot in between. A lot of us older frats use to do that.Now I use the Speer shot cups and have no trouble dispatching grouse, even with a.357 snubby at 4 yards or so. Sure do hell on a mousei nside the tent at 3-4 feet though,but it sure makes a mess all over everything.

I suppose you are using large rifle primers since the 444 is a rifle cartridge.

Thats a cool little project Doc.

Gunner

neat. How tight of a pattern do you get with the .45-70?

I never checked it,but I could kill blue grous eat 15-20 yards with it. That is all I used it for.

There you go. You can't argue with results like that!

Oh the possibilities... Between the #1 .45-70 and a .54 Hawken that's on the way to me,(not to mention the .480) I might have some fun experimenting.

Thanks Doc!

A long time ago in a land far away,the exact recipe and instructions for the 45-70 load was either in Handloader or Americal Rifleman

You had me at "snakes" and "smithereenies"!

Yosemite Sam was one of my childhood heroes, and some folks say he still is, judgin' by the configuration of my moustache...

Thanks for the tutorial Doc. Given the comments about the .460, I'll check into that case, but pretty much copy the rest of your technique verbatim.

Good, if I didn't have a supply of 444 Marlin cases already cut down, I'd go with the 460 cases, too. Let me know how they work for you.

That article on using .410 cases might have been mine.

I found that .410 hulls cut to cylinder length would hold about 2/3 ounce of #9 shot. I even located a scarce .410 Lee Loader (the mallet-pounder kind) to make up these things. I used a thin card wad cut from a tablet backer and ran a bead of glue around it to hold it in place. That gave me a place to write the shot size, too.

The problem with .410 hulls is that the rim diameter is too big for them to chamber in a Ruger Blackhawk. The rim hits the cylinder ratchet. They will chamber in a Colt clone, though.

When I switched from a .45 Colt to my Charter Bulldog .44 Special as my hiking gun, I also switched to using Speer capsules. I find no fault with them except for their tendency to creep out under recoil. I solved that by NOT crimping the cases (which cuts the capsule) but by running a very thin bead of superglue around the case mouth as the final loading step. Works like a charm.

a really good 'how to' post Doc.

I have been shooting critters with a .45 Colt revolver for many years. Never used snake shot, just a LSWC.

Thanks, Sam. I have been known to use LSWC's a lot, too.

Onliest problem is that when faced with a large snake (or even worse, a large tarantula) my aim gets a bit wobbly... the #12 shot helps make up fer that...

Snakes and rats were about the only place that the Judge ever made sense to me.

I have never used the 444 casing but i do load no 12 in 45colt.
for the mouth to keep the shot in place, sharpen the end of a casing and punch out a wad from a piece of styrofoam and then use an electric glue gun to hold it in place over the shot.
Or, if you cast you can reverse a 44 gas check, and then electric glue gun in place.
the powder load of unique is about the same as i use too.

Thought I'd write an update on this thread... since I posted the OP back in '12, I've had occasion to blast a couple of rattlesnakes with the #12 shells, and they kill 'em just fine at a safe distance of 3-4 yards. I also cleaned up a mess of grackles at my buddy's ranch with #8 shotshells as they roosted in the pecan trees. There were more grackles than I had shells, sadly, but I made some more and made couple more trips out there and thereafter the damage to his garden was considerably less.

I don't have enough 44 Magnum shells on hand, though, and since I'll be carrying a S&W Model 69 soon, I am preparing to reload some for that caliber. As it happens, bcolorado recently scored some 445 Mag cases and is willing to share. I'll be loading up some 44 Mag shotshells in these when they arrive, and will post pics again.

Lots of interesting feedback from 24HCF members on this thread on the various ways they've solved their revolver shotshell needs. There's always more'n one way to skin a cat!

Nice to update the thread. I also have a .45 Colt now, too.

Wonder how much shot I can get in a .45-90...

I still have some 445 brass left if anyone wants some so they can build shotshells while following DocRocket's thread.

Id like a handful to try this! Ill Pm you Nice write up Doc! wish the printer worked !

I would be interested in buying some if you have some available. I'll pm you.

another interesting trick is to make .45acp shotshells out of .308 brass.

Doc

Thanks for taking the time to give us some edjewmacation on shotshells. I've been a vocal opponent of the .22lr shot shells with the exception that they are murder on butterflies and grasshoppers. Snakes no .....grasshoppers yes. I seem to have the ability to attract snakes from wherever I go and the best medicine I've found to date has been a double barreled 20g. with 1 oz of 7.5s.

I think you have motivated me to build some of those snake rounds and thanks for the info.

P.S. I know what you mean about the Uberti pistols. I had two of the early ones and both were a POS. I replaced them with 3 Vaquero stainless with 2 in 45Colt and 1 in .44Mag. They are all great shooters and treasures. Keep looking for yours they are worth it.

A fresh update on this thread seems to be in order. At the 2019 Campfire Hog Hunt down here in Texas, a number of fellers wanted to do some T&E on these here 45 Colt shotshells, so I brought a box of 'em out with me and we shot up some pattern targets, and one unsuspecting navel orange. The results were impressive to the assembled throng.

As it happens, bcolorado sent me some 445 Supermag cases a few years back and I just found them this morning while cleaning out some half-empty boxes of reloading stuff in my garage. This, and the recent acquisition of a couple of new .44 caliber revolvers, spurred me to break out the shotshell makings, and this afternoon I intend to whip up a batch of .44 Shotshells. I'll post some pics tonight or tomorrow if able. I still haven't figured out the new photo posting instructions since Rick updated the site security. Guess this is my opportunity to get with the program.

Waiting to see how those 445 Supermag workout as I now have some revolvers to shoot them with...

Since I now own a S&W 357PD in .41mag, I acquired some .414 Supermag brass from Starline, and will see if I can attain similar results for that cartridge.

Are there no issues clambering the 414 case in the 41 cylinder?

I might order some for my Ti Tracker.

Idaho, in general you're going to have problems getting long cases to chamber for ANY longer-than-standard case. You have to size down the top 1/4 to 1/3 of the case so it will fit into the throat of the chambers. So for my .45 Colt shells, I use a .44 sizing die to squeeze them down to fit. For the .445 Supermag shotshells I made yesterday for use in my 44's, I used a .40/10mm sizing die to squeeze them down. This might also work for the .414 Supermag cases as well.

Tag for reference, Thanks Doc!

Thanks Doc,

That is as I suspected. But I really was not sure how the chamber is configured at the leading edge of the cartridge in a revolver. I really have never seen a chamber cast for a revolver cartridge, nor a chamber reamer.

Based on my trials with the 327 last weekend, I bet I can get a decent charge of shot in the 41 mag case.

Especially as I do not have the 10 mm dies to work with and would have to scrounge up the 414 brass. Or is that just sour grapes?

Next weekend's project, 25 rounds with a round ball on top, and 25 with a gas check on top for the 41!

James,

Brian took a video of me blowing an unopened orange Fanta to bits at the hog hunt with your gun. I just don't know how to get it from an iPhone message to Imgur to here.

I saw that video on Brian's phone, Ed. It would be great if you could get it posted here. Could you post it on You Tube or some such thing?