Got in my head that i want a comander size 1911. looking at the Magnum Research 1911 and the Ruger 1911 comander size. i know a bunch about rifles....not much about 1911 . looking for some help. Seems like everyone needs at least one 1911 in the arsenal so to speak. Looking to spend $500.00-800.00 if possible. Any suggestions?

Well...lol. Right off I'd counsel you to move up to a grand in your expenditure. I think you'll be more satisfied with one of those. I'm not familiar with how much Colt's Government types are right now, but in the not-so-distant past you could get a Colt for right around that. Springfield Armory puts out a good product and you should be able to get one of those for under a thou. The SA to get would be the Loaded Target model. The Ruger looks good but I have no firsthand experience with it. Everybody on here likes it. Taurus is widely hated but I've had pretty good success with a couple of their 1911's. You can come in within your price range on that one for sure. You can get a rail on it too. I'd recommend one. I've had two 1911 rail guns and they're the [bleep].

Glock 19. Unless you just want to be aggravated. If you truly don't mind be aggravated get a Springfield armory 1911.

Dink

Go with the Rugers. I've had and shot both the full size and Commander length for awhile now and they're excellent.

Perspective is everything.

I'm not sure that ruger has made a 1911 style pistol for a while yet...

And for the OP,

I'd recommend checking out the RIA 1911s. While not US made, they are worthy guns, and more so at the price that they sell for.

Don't get a 1911. None of them are any good. I have 32 of them. I know!

This is good advice. Get the most basic model, spend what you save on getting a good trigger job/extractor tune from a smith who knows how, and call it good.

I'm also with johnw, but I got the "tactical" model which is a step up from the base model. They really are a great buy for the $$ and I know their CS is great if you ever need anything.

There's one in every croud. A man asks about 1911's and someome's gotta mention Blocks.

I also suggest a RIA.

My suggestion is...if you're looking for advice on buying your first 1911....go somewhere else! By the time all the regulars on here chime in, you'll be so farking confused you won't know what to buy!

simplify this.


Buy a Wilson combat!

I'm a fan of Rugers. I tried out the full size and liked it so much I bought a commander as well. Best out of the box 1911s I own. Others in my safe are better - but only after some tweaking.

Good luck!

Springfield Lightweight Champion

Ante up for a Colt.

In your price range its damn hard to beat a springfield RO.

The non-rail RIAs are darned good guns for the money and you can get in the game for a very reasonable amount of money. Their customer service is great. The out of the box triggers are excellent on both of mine. One required a little tuning, which they did at no cost to me, the other has run like a Rolex from day one. And they're accurate. They are solid, well built pistols.

That said, buy a Colt O2991 38 Super and you'll never go back to the dark side with all the 45acp wonks.

Dave

The trouble with 1911's is, if you try one and like it, you'll probably REALLY like it and start pondering another one (nicer, of course). But let's not get ahead of ourselves. I like the ideas above re: Rock Island Armory and Ruger and Springfield or a Colt if the price is right - get a solid, well-executed, no-frills 1911. Get to know it which you can definitely do within the budget stated. Then if you fall in love with it, you have a starting point for knowing what you'd like different in the future.

The other problem with 1911's is, everyone's got an opinion....

The Springfield has a forged frame and slide.

....cutting thru the suggestions and limiting it to the two that you mentioned (Ruger and Magnum Research) I think you'd find either of those to be excellent first choices. There are a few differences between them:
1. Ruger=Stainless; MR=Carbon. Don't read too much into stainless steel being actually "stain"less; it takes care and will rust. There used to be concerns about galling of slide to frame with stainless--not so much anymore.
2. Ruger is American made; MR is made in Israel. That may or may not be a concern to you. While I like the idea of a gun being made in America, having one from Israel is equally cool in my mind, but that's just me.
3. Triggers. Every gun is an law unto itself; however the MR (Desert Eagle) 1911's MAIN virtue seem to be out-of-the-box match quality triggers. Again, they're all different, but at a recent trip to Cabelas, the MR's that they had on display all had superb triggers. I'm sure that many Rugers also have decent triggers, the one's that I've seen weren't above average.

Either would be a good choice; I doubt that for the money you'd be disappointed with either. There may be others on the market that are just as good for the $, but I'm guessing none that are better.

....huh, I thought that they were castings brought in from Brazil.

You're thinking of Ruger's. Many cast parts.

....No I'm thinking of Springfield. Rugers are from Pine Tree Castings and almost entirely cast parts. Springfields are from IMBEL in Brazil, however I thought that they were also cast. Of course, I could be wrong. Are you sure they're forged?

Seen lots of Springfields with FIBRAZIL on 'em.

Forged
In
B
r
a
z
i
l


Gunner

....you're right....did alittle internet research and found that they're forged not cast.

I used to care whether a gun was cast or forged but I no longer do. I was talking to Joe Chambers (Chambers Custom Pistols) and the subject of cast vs forged came up. He said that he's seen plenty of cracked 1911 frames but never one that was a cast frame. Anecdotal evidence is always "iffy" at best, but still it's there.

, RAH-JAH that.

Gunner

When Colt left the Philippines they left all there machinery there and is now called Rock Island Armory.

Hard to beat Rock Island Armory for cost and being deadly accurate. Triggers are darn good and when you consider your buying a Colt with a different name ups the anti for cost and quality.

I would buy a Colt.

Huh????? What are you talking about?????

I think he is thinking if the Ballister Molina (sp?) of years gone by.

I really think the Ruger 1911 is the best bargain on the Market, for the Money.
I think Sprortsman's Warehouse has them on sell for $599, IIRC

Not a thing wrong with the Rock Island pistols, either. Just not fancy.

For another 300 bucks over the Ruger, the SpringField Range Office or Target Loaded Model has just about every feature a 1911 owner could want.

I also wouldn't hesitate to purchase a S&W or Sig Saur 1911. Both good guns, IMO.

Spend the most you can afford to spend on your first 1911, and you will never regret it. Also, it's easy to sell a good 1911 if you don't like it. I own a bunch of them and they are still my Favorite Semi Auto.

1911's are Kinda like Lays Potato Chips, nobody can quit after buying just one.

How much do you have to spend? As with most things you get what you pay for. Nothing wrong with the cheaper ones, they will go bang very well. As the price goes up you get more features and a better "tune" IE accuracy, trigger, sights etc. I have seen a lot of folks but the cheap ones, then have the trigger tuned, add a bunch of parts to get it where they want it. In the end the have a cheap one with $500 to $1K invested and it is still a cheap one. Spend as much as you can afford right away. You will not be disappointed.

Whatever model you decide on, learn to take it apart and lube it properly. A good set of sights are a big asset as well...

Springfield's 1911 receivers are from IMBEL; who buys their forging from Taurus.

I wasn't aware that Colt had manufacturing in the Philippines???

RIA's are made by Armscor Precision. When I was an Armscor employee in the '80's and visited the production facilities in the Philippines, there was no 1911 manufacturing facility ran by either Colt or Armscor. We made various .22lr rifles, bolt & semi auto. A copy of the High Standard Flite King shotgun. A very loose copy of the Colt Detective Special in various forms. And oodles of very good quality ammo (the .22lr was made on Eley machinery and VERY good). What's more, the manufacturing processes used in the making of the RIA's is very different since they make extensive use of castings, and "old Colt's" were entirely machined pistols.

Now there was another section where much repair was done on various USGI military arms. If there was a whole other facility, I was never made aware of it.

Just my observations...maybe you know something I don't (quite likely).

BS

From Rock Island's own website.

"HISTORY



Humble Beginnings

Armscor can trace its beginnings all the way back to 1905, when the first Squires, Bingham & Co. headquarters was established in the Philippines. After years of trading clothing, firearms, ammunition, and other items; the company was eventually bought and renamed �Sportsmen�s Headquarters� in 1930.

After a decade of business, visionary entrepreneur Don Celso Tuason bought the company at the start of WWII. In 1952 his company was renamed �Squires Bingham Manufacturing Inc.� and helped rebuild the post-war Philippines by obtaining the first firearms manufacturing license from the government and opening plants across the country.

In the 1960�s he saw his eldest son, Demetrio �Bolo� Tuason, had a strong interest in the business and started grooming him to take the reigns of the company. Not much later, his two younger sons, Carlos �Butch� Tuason and Severo �Conkoy� Tuason joined the business as well.

The Armscor brand that the world knows and loves didn�t come into existence until 1980 after Squires Bingham Manufacturing was reorganized and renamed �Arms Corporation of the Philippines.�

North American Expansion

In 1985, Armscor Precision International opened its first United States office in Pahrump, Nevada. A short while later, Armscor acquired the Rock Island Armory brand, a leading M1911 manufacturer and developer.

The future looks very bright as Martin Tuason, the third generation of the family, prepares to lead the company forward.

With an unprecedented focus on customer service and satisfaction, Armscor is rapidly becoming a driving force in the American and worldwide firearms industry. Today, the company exports to over 50 countries on 6 continents.

Building the Brand

In 2011, the big news was Armscor�s opening of brand new production facilities in Stevensville, Montana. But a more noticeable change is the updated brand look and simplified structure of the company.

The restructuring of the business resulted in Armscor becoming the official ammunition producer of the family owned company that�s �Right on target. Right on the Price.�

As a result, Rock Island Armory is now the sole producer of firearms in the Armscor family under the tagline of �Solid as a rock.�"

Ruger Commander

old colt
made in 1918

I would LOVE to see some proof of that as SAI/IMBEL has been producing and marketing 1911's a LOT longer that Taurus has.

I think folks were thing of the Argentine Model 27, not the Ballister Molina (a clone of the 1911 but not exact) These were made on machinery bought from and setup by Colt. I have one and it is actually a very good 1911 A1 and is appreciating in price. So much so that I decided not to modify mine and bought a Springfield Armory Loaded instead. I might suggest the used market, one can find some decent already sorted out 1911's for less than it would cost to do it yourself.

You're thinking of Ruger's. Many cast parts. [/quote]
....No I'm thinking of Springfield. Rugers are from Pine Tree Castings and almost entirely cast parts. Springfields are from IMBEL in Brazil, however I thought that they were also cast. Of course, I could be wrong. Are you sure they're forged? [/quote]
Springfield's 1911 receivers are from IMBEL; who buys their forging from Taurus. [/quote]


Are you saying that Taurus is making the springfield slides and frames?????? If so that is the first time I've heard of that.

And you'll be sorry.

Get a Sig.

Did some digging around and my APOLOGIES it seems that Colt did leave some machinery there but it was to build the M16`s by a company called Elisco they were contracted by Colt to build the M16 and when Colt left they left the manufacturing equipment there.

The RIA 1911 are all Mil Spec built so all parts from Colt will fit.

P220 "Carry" model (SAO) is my favorite .45 ACP, and I have quite a few 1911s.

I don't have any links or anything in writing I can point you to. I have a friend who has been importing parts and receivers from IMBEL for about 20 years and has been to in IMBEL more times than I can count. He has taken armorers classes at IMBEL on both the FAL the FAL 22 and the 1911. And he has toured Taurus on more than one occasion. Taurus had a forging facility for decades, more than 40 years. Just like Ruger has been making 1911 frames for a good 20 years before they started making 1911 with their name, the same thing goes with Taurus. I'm told that most of the CNC equipment at IMBEL also is Taurus branded...in case you don't know, Taurus actually manufacture CNC machines. A lot of people have zero respect for Taurus but regardless of that they are a major manufacturing facility with a great deal of capacity and capabilities beyond what most firearms manufacturers in the world has. They are probably the only firearms manufacturer who actually does MIM in house.

Anyhow about 15 years ago when my friend Ravender was at Taurus he said he saw a huge bin with 1911 forgings. He thought Taurus was making 1911's, but the production manager said that they were for IMBEL.

Both Tauris and IMBEL manufacture a great deal of equipment, parts, and firearms for various military organizations around the world. Taurus is MUCH bigger than what you see in the US market.

Forum member JamesDunn has also been to Taurus and can verify the same thing. But just like you never see who actually makes the parts for Ed Brown, Wilson, etc. you're not going to find anything in writing on the web that talks about who makes parts for IMBEL/Springfield.

Please excuse the typos, I'm riding shotgun in a car and doing a couple other things and using voice recognition on my iPhone

So the location in Nevada that is mention was just a small office and a little bit of storage space where they sold their 22 rifles from. 22 rifles and ammunition came into the country via Oakland at a bonded warehouse and we would then transfer them to Sacramento California to a semi clandestine warehouse with a sign above it that said all temp insulation on North B street. I worked at that warehouse where the ammunition was shipped from to all the dealers and I did warranty repair on all the 22 rifles that Armscor. In March 1986 I took a trip to the Philippines to work on a project that I had created in Sacramento and they wanted to re-create there. There was a regime change from Marcos to Aquino couple of weeks before I got there and there was a lot of unrest and even fighting in the streets. Within an hour of me arriving at the warehouse we were attacked by mortar fire and rifle fire, employees had to pick up arms and defend the warehouse. After a couple more hours of sporadic rifle fire zinging through the warehouse the lawyers from corporate called and said I had to get out of the country because they couldn't risk having an American killed. So while I did view the production facilities, the ammunition part was very impressive, the rest was very disappointing from the lack of equipment and facilities that they had ; all told I wasn't in the Philippines for even a full 24 hours. Beside the commercial products that they offered they did a lot of work for the government on military arms most of which were surplus World War II vintage US. Every last person that I met there had a real love affair for the M1 carbine and the colt 1911 "Porty-Pibe ( how they pronounced .45).

As for their "acquiring the brand of RIA, they pretty much stole it. Rock island was created by a gentleman who owns and operates a small importing firm called the dealer warehouse. He was responsible for getting the Argentine firm to retool up to build the Argentine high powers, so we had a good deal of experience in getting manufacturing facilities set up to build handguns. He knew that Armscor had always wanted to build a 1911 so he helped them do that and then he imported them under the name of rock island armory. After everything was up and running and well-established, they just cut him out of the picture. Unfortunately he did not copyright the name rock island armory,, so it was real easy for them.

Please excuse the typos, I'm using voice recognition on my iPhone

I don't think this has been addressed in this thread yet...

Why do you want a Commander size? If you have a specific reason - good. But if not, why not the full-size (Government)?

Anyway - my experience mirrors others mentioned here with both the RIA and the Ruger (both 5"). The Ruger's only fault being the so-so trigger (easily fixed). I would skip anything with GI sights, unless you know your eyes are going to work like a 20-something for the foreseeable future.

And what's wrong with the Commander??? I LOVE the Commander...in LW form it's what I carry.

But I love the full size Govt also. But in all seriousness, you raise a good point. If you plan on customizing, the Govt is the way to go. More parts, a little cheaper, and more available.

Aesthetically though, the Commander is a nice looking pistol.

Just got a copy of the February issue of Shooting Times, and it features an article titled "1911 Shootout" which evaluates 7 "affordable" 1911's - MRI Desert Eagle, Ruger SR1911, Taurus PT-1911, Auto-Ordinance Thompson Custom 1911, ATI FX45 1911 Military, Para 1911 Expert Stainless, and Springfield 1911-AI Mil Spec.

In my humble and less than expert opinion, a good and fair article, worth reading for someone looking to buy a first 1911.

Kevin, thanks for the background info on Taurus and RIA. Interesting.

I bought a Para 1911 Expert Stainless earlier this year. It's USA made, has a forged frame and slide, and some nice extra features such as beavertail safety and fiber optic front sight. So far, it's been trouble free and accurate. While it's not as nice as my Colt 1911, it's pretty darn good for the price and will serve my needs quite nicely.

Clark Custom also says it's fine for their 460 Rowland conversion. I also took this into account before I purchased another 1911.

I have a Springfield 1911 A-1 G.I. - Basic and Perfect.

There's a custom Caspian in the classifieds. Started at $1400 reduced to $1100. Caspian is very high quality.


DMc

Those are cool. I agree on the basic design being best. When I carry a 1911, it's always an old early 1960s Government Model that's never been messed with.

Simple and basic is good. Colt combat commander. The OP said he would like a commander size.

Or just get a Wilson and "forget about it".

[quote=DMc]There's a custom Caspian in the classifieds. Started at $1400 reduced to $1100. Caspian is very high quality.


DMc [/quote

This!

Ruger, Ria, Colt, Para, Smith, Springfield all are good. Pick your price and go shoot.

Side note, in '98 and '99 I was invited to IMBEL. I was consulting with PETROBRAS and got to know a lot of engineers.

They were researching UHP(ultra high pressure) systems. UHP is frequently used to cut steel in mills, cut the sprue from castings etc.

While there on one visit I saw crates being shipped to Springfield, Taurus and Rossi. I also saw a lot of Taurus equipment in their shops.

aah. The influence of RJM. He got to you didn't he?

try argentina, not the phillipines.

I for one really like the basic 1911. Now for a carry gun, I like sights I can see a little better, but the basic 1911 is still a very capable pistol. The Springfield GI is a very good quality pistol and they shoot very well.

When I'm not carrying my LW Commander, I carry a Colt's Government Model .38 Super. It's a 1991 series, so it has the taller sights, but for the most part, it's like the old school Colt's and I never feel under-armed in any way. If it was a more regular daily carry gun, I would add night sights, or replace the elephant ivory with a set of CTC. But mostly it's my BBQ gun that gets carried just 'cause I want to carry it from time to time.

I bought my first 1911 45 ACP pistol some years ago not knowing anything about it ... The salesman also didn't know anything about it except it was a 'Colt' and how much to charge for it. I liked it, so I put it on lay-by and took it home a few months later.

Only then I found out I had purchased a ~ 'COLT MODEL of 1911' ~ WWI Replica.
One of about 4000 Manufactured from the original Colt blueprints and specs.
With a beautiful Carbonia Blued Finish.

This is probably my most prized firearm and I just stumbled across it -
Without any research, advice, or recommendations.

My best advice to the O.P. is:

"If You like it - Buy it!

3 45's with Caspian parts.

Top: Gov't Model

Middle: Series 70 slide, Caspian titanium officer's model frame with extended dust covers, S&A mag well. Target pictured was shot by my 24yo daughter in 8 seconds. 5 shots at 21' (offhand).

Bottom: Series 70 Commander slide, Caspian alloy officer's model frame, S&A Mag well.




DMc

I carry a Lw commander and can highly recommend it, put slim grips on it and use a bandara belt and you can conceal it with a long tee shirt.

If you want to keep it simple.

Get a Colt 21st Century Commander. Custom shop.

The motto is: "every thing you need and nothing you don't.

Hand fitted by Colt CGS. They shoot great out of the box.

They are very comfortable inside the pants. About $1400.00 new. Not bad for a Custom shop gun. If you can find one.

They will hold their value more than any other gun mentioned here in this thread.

I am a man of low income, at first I purchased a RIA because it was all I could afford, and have no regrets. I have well over 3000 rounds through it, no problems, hiccups, or jams. I have had no tweaking or work needed on it yet.

Your budget for a 1911 should include the cost of a fair amount of ammunition, and quality magazines. All four of my (low end) 1911's have two Wilson Combat mags, and fout Chip McCormick mags.

I carry the RIA GI 5", and an ATI Officers 4.25" and have two Turk 1911's (Tisas Zig 1911 & Regent r100)and am not going to get anything high dollar,because I want one out of pride/envy not necessity.

Good advice here, some opinions too. Just do a bit of research done, and get what you think you will feel comfortable with.

for the money Kimbers are hard to beat for accuracy ,realibility ,fit and finish,like someone said in this thread spend closer to the$1000.00 mark ,it will be money well spent

I'm noticing a trend there with those Argentine style wide spur hammers...cool.

Yep they do look just like one on my Ejercito Argentino Sistamas Colt Model 27 that was made in 1952. I actually like the hammer as opposed to the skimpy skeleton ones on some 1911's.

I have read all the posts about wanting a 1911, Why not try another fine creation of JMB the Browning Hi-Power? Also available by several other makers as clones like the FEG hipower. I have 2 of them and they are both excellent weapons.