Live or death situation, would you feel comfortable carrying a 380?

better than a sharp stick, but no I would not be comfortable. About 300ftlbs of energy, probably less. Depending on the handgun. I consider the 38 spl as minimum, but even that is not much above 300 ft lbs. 9mm would be minimum for me.
I'm not saying I would want to be shot with one, but if I am going to trust my life to a handgun, it has to have some umph to it.

I have one it's small and pocket size but it doesn't give me the warm fuzzy's

I have no idea. It is a small convenient gun you can carry when you cannot carry a G19, 1911, or small revolver. On the other hand my Kahr pm9 is the same size as my glock 42.

SS, just went to hornadys ballistic table. The 380 is 200ft lbs @ the muzzle.

I carry mine when I can't carry something larger. I don't feel naked carrying it. That being said I am not looking for a fight either. If I can get out without using it so much the better. If I aboslutely have to use it someone is going to catch 7 slugs very quickly. It is not a long range proposition.

It was enough for the retired Tampa cop to kill the guy in the movie theatre.
One shot, close range.

better than throwing rocks. I will take the .45acp any day.

Of course not.
Plus the cost of ammo makes the 9mm much better.

It's better than a pointy stick, but you can get very small 9mm's today that work pretty well.

Now, if the budget's tight and you are given a .380, it's more understandable - and probably enough, most of the time. Like I posted last week sometimes people fixate on a particular gun and don't want to hear that a bigger one would be better. In those days about all you can encourage is practice, and good ammo...

If you're one of those people who just wont get used to carrying a real pistol in an IWB holster, then its better than being unarmed. Pocket guns are for the rare occasion when a holster gun isnt an option. If a .380 is what you have, then learn to shoot it well.

No.

personally NO!
If I had a good idea I might be in a life or death gun fight I would NOT grab a 380,and if limited to a hand gun, Id start with a 357 mag, 41 mag, 10mm or 45acp as the base line and be rather picky as to ammo selected and hand gun to be used even then, probably a glock 10mm or CZ45 acp, but an n frame S&W in a revolver caliber would be a good choice,and a 6" model 57 smith would be a good choice, I want something I can depend on to punch holes, big deep , hole in my attacker,placed in an adversary where I,m aiming
Ive carried the glock, CZ, 10mm or 1006 S&W , most of the time since they became available

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=126_134&product_id=396

After I've shot a 9mm or 45acp to slide lock, yes. Its a backup.

It�s not like I am going to give up and let somebody kill me if all I have is a .380, but I have choices and that is not mine. Some people won�t carry more than X ounces and some people won�t carry more than Y ounces, but I am comfortable with a bare minimum of a 20 ounce 9mm with night sights, which only weighs 4 ounces more than the .380 built on the same platform.

Well guys, thanks, you have confirmed my thoughts and I think im going to get a 9mm. Gonna look @ the ruger LC9 for starters

I'm 5'8" and 160 and have no problem concealing a 642, no matter what I'm wearing, so why would I go smaller?

...I did...of course mine was a MAC11 that would dump a 32 round magazine in 1.5 seconds...never felt undergunned at all...

Bob

Gamer.

Whenever I feel I do not need to carry a gun - I carry a 380 or smaller.

My 9mm rides in my car every day. Can't carry at work so it generally stays there. Sometimes it goes IWB, small of back.

When in my wife's vehicle I usually take my .380, which fits nicely in my pocket or an IWB holster in the small of the back. When I wear my vest I usually choose my Kimber .45.

That said, I live in the country, not in the swamp they call Denver, and my .380, a Walther PPK/s, gets loaded to +P velocities. In most situations I think it would be adequate. The chances of me needing a handgun to stop a fight are not zero but they are not high, either. I'm 63 today and the one time in my life I could have used a handgun all I had was a knife. It was more than the other guy had but that event was what caused me to take advantage of the CCW permit I had had for years.

This evening, for example, we drove to my daughter's house to celebrate my birthday with her and my son-in-law. An hour and a half driving around Denver and Aurora on E470 and I-25, dinner at a nice restaurant at the Loveland shopping center just off I-25, and an hour and a half back. Wife's car and my .380 sat IWB.

I shot one of those full auto once: It had a can on it too. If that doesn't intimidate someone, nothing will!


DMc

We had a jealous husband shoot his wife's lover in a parking lot here a couple of years ago with a .380 at close range.

One in the chest..... one in the head. At the trial the medial examiner testified that either shot would have been fatal.

I have a small .380 that I carry once in a while when I feel like I'm in an area where I most likely will never use it and feel ok with it but in the back of my mind it doesn't feel as comfortable as my other carry guns, G27 or G30.

The new XDS in .45acp is a great option. Do yourself a favor and at least hold one before you buy a 9mm. You will be very surprised.

After I had given my daughter my .38 spl snubbie, I was left with a small .380 for BUG duty. Just couldn't warm up to the idea of it and finally found a nice old S&W Airweight model 38.

Just didn't make me feel comfortable.....

I was a Class III dealer at the time and had a can also... Used to buy them for $169.00 if you bought three at a time. Now they are $4K...

Carried mine in a camera case for several months when my partner and I were threatened by some very irate Cuban drug dealers who couldn't figure out how we kept busting them....the leak was coming from the head guys girlfriend who hated him...

Bob

I live in liberal Northern Virginia where if anyone sees a gun they are likely to call the police. My .357 Ruger SP101 in .357 Mag is my choice or my 9MM S&W, but in the summer I needed something smaller. A .380 Bodyguard fits in a shirt or pants pocket stocked with Buffalo Bore cartridges. I always have a bigger caliber in my truck as backup. I also carry the little .380 as a backup when on duty as a security officer. Certainly the .380 is not the preferred choice but in a gunfight I plan to be shooting first & hopefully last.

The S&W Bodyguard was the one I was looking @, nice little pocket pistol. But I'm not a gun looney (yeah I said it!)so I'm only going to buy one pistol. The LC9 was comfortable in the hand and not to hard to conceal.

which is why so many people carry .380's today. You are going downtown to an "event" sports coat, dress pants, you don't want 40 ounces riding on your right hip for 4 hours but you still have to walk back to the car at 12:30AM. On the other hand I know several that have those wallet holsters and they keep the gun with them anytime they have their pants on.

I would rather have a .380 than nothing myself.

No way in hell would I want to depend on a 380 in that situation. Hell I would not even want a 9mm, but would certainly take a 9mm over a 380. I want a caliber that at least starts with a 4.

If I was going into a known life or death situation I would not carry a pistol or revolver in any caliber. I would carry a rifle, shotgun, machine pistol.

http://www.policeone.com/patrol-iss...p-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

Somebody didn't get the memo ....... you now, the one about the "4" thingy ..... ;^)

The beauty of living in Montana is never having to settle for just one caliber. No one leaves their house with less than 3 guns and none of them are for personal defense, because you probably won't ever need one. But if you did need it you would easily have any of at least 3 options and probably a rife or shotgun too just for good measure and every potential thug knows that...

Life , death , coming at you in a split second, a 380 or 9mm does not cut it, period ! Objective is to save your life and stop the action ! Knock down performance a must, buys time to escape the threat, follow-up to secondary threats. There are "Gangs" out there and desperate high folks that would still be on their feet and pissed off with your hand shaking reactive shot. Oh, you can forget night sights and even lasers, it's done and you don't remember jack chit, 27 years on the job, just saying. Objective is keyword here.

Exactly why not to go smaller.

I would feel better carrying the biggest handgun that can be concealed. Having said that, I would prefer a .25 ACP over nothing. Better yet, we have legal open carry here in WV.

Guys, let me clarify "Life or Death Situation" Your going to an event in the city, for me its Nashville, youre walking back to your car and someone tries to rob you, that's the scenario im talking about...not going to combat with a 380.

And yes I do know theres a lot of variables to a robbery situation ... does the perp have a gun, a knife, a bat ect..ect

Kinda like that where I live in TN. But when people come to visit they all want too see Nashville.

If I am going to engage someone that intends to do me harm, I ain't picking a 380. No way.

I would be ducking for cover If I was being shot at with a 308
I normally Cary a 45 but there ar occasions when my little 380 beretta is the only option. And it's better than having nothing...

Will need to be some good cover to stop a 308.

That's my "tweener" when I can't go full size and don't need to limit myself to pocket carry. Hides very well IWB.

Is it "enough?" Probably. And that's the problem. It's better than nothing, but, as the saying goes: nobody in a life/death situation wishes they had a smaller gun and fewer bullets.

I used to have a Belgian made Browning semi-auto in .380 that had been a cop friends backup gun. I mostly used it to put holes in the head of small to medium sized sharks at boat-side or on the beach, but I carried it at night when beach fishing for defense against two-legged sharks, and it went with me into some questionable situation. Definitely better than no gun at all, but I will probably never buy another .380.

+1

If carrying a 3something caliber, I prefer a j frame or equivalent. 5 shots of 357 (or 38 special if you prefer) in a small package.

In your neck of the woods probably nothing less than a 4 in front of it. In my neck of the woods a .380 as you describe the scenario would work just fine.

Several good hits with the 45 didn't incapacitate the shooter. As they say, no magic bullets, and some people are just harder to put down.

Although I'm a fan of 9mm, I was almost surprised that Sgt Gramins opted 9 over 45 after that fight. I suppose carrying 145 rounds does favor the 9mm.

I wouldnt rely on a 380 myself.

My smallest pistol and most common carry is a Glock 17.

The biggest reason I don't own anything really small, is because I don't want to get lazy and carry a lesser weapon.

Obviously, I understand the reasoning behind more power, but I'm thankful for the subcompact .380's that are available today.

They've taken the role that used to be filled by .25's and .32's.

I carry an LCP with 100 grain hard cast flat points doing 900+ fps.

I don't expect it to be of much use in an ongoing gun battle type of situation, but it's an "onion field" gun to me.

Mostly, however,..I make it a point to avoid goblin prone areas.

Something that is fairly easy to do in the city that I live in,...for now, anyway.

I think the dude needs some counseling rather than more ammo. He self-diagnosed the issue mid-gunfight.

Why would a 380 be enough in Montana? Do they make girly-men there that die easily?

Do you know anyone in Michigan willing to stand and take a shot from a 380? There must be girly men everywhere.

I carry a 380 because I can't always carry a shotgun.

My carry gun is a 22lr, so yeah, I'd be ok with a 380 as well.

There simply isn't much crime in Montana with the possible exceptions of Billings and Missoula both larger cities in Montana but small cities by national standards. One could carry for a hundred years in Montana and never use the weapon. Four legged predators pose more of threat in the city than any bad guy.

Not all situations are the same. Yesterday I carried the .380 and 14 rounds of +P around Denver on the E470 tollway and north on I-25 to have dinner with Daughter #2 and my son-in-law. This morning I carried my .45, not because I was going anyplace where I expected trouble (the movie theater in Castle Rock, although Aurora is not forgotten), but because I was wearing my vest and concealing it was easy. My wife and I are going back to Castle Rock , or maybe Elizabeth, for dinner this evening and I'll carry the .45 again because it is already in the vest. Then at 3:50 in the morning its back to work with the 9mm Luger in the console of my car, 13 rounds in the mag with an identical spare. As I drive through Denver in the wee hours, having 26 rounds of +P available is comforting.

Big brother thinks I'm foolish for carrying with an empty chamber. This is the same guy that has never had a problem requiring a firearm to resolve it but has had a thumb slip while dropping the hammer on a loaded chamber in his Detonics 1911. Oops... He sold the car without telling his wife about the hole in the passenger side floorboards. Big Brother lives in town, though, while we do not, so his needs are somewhat different. By the way, I've had a similar thhumb slip incident while dropping the hammer on one of my lever guns. Fortunately the rifle was pointed down range.

There have been a few times when I've loaded the chamber before going into a particular area. Very few. I avoid crowds like the plague, avoid areas known or suspected to be high risk and attempt to maintain a good situational awareness at all times. I know this is not foolproof but it does lessen the probability of an unwanted event significantly. With a little luck I will never again be in a situation where I wished (or was glad) I had a gun, let alone a bigger one.

While I'll be the last to claim a .380 is the best choice for every need, I won't claim a .4 something is always the best answer, either. I carry the .380 most often when my wife is with me. If need be, she can handle the recoil of my Walther much better than my 9mm or .45. For home defense we got her a Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal. For her car we got her a Ruger LCP in .39 SPL. For both revolvers I got her reduced recoil loads. The reason for the revolvers is she has a hard time with slides.

Some people (not all) look down their noses at people who choose a different, "lesser" cartridge for self-defense or choose to carry in Condition 2 or 3 instead of Condition 1. Yet many of these same people choose a .40 instead of a 10mm, a five-round revolver instead of a six, a six- or seven-round magazine instead of 10 or more, etc. Often they carry a .380 as a backup, even though a compact 9mm would carry as easily. With their noses high they claim Condition 1 is the only sensible way to carry because it offers lower reaction time and that people who don't carry that way must be intimidated by their gun. If reaction time was the sole or even most important criteria, though, why don't those same people carry Condition 0 (finger on the trigger, chamber loaded, safety off)? (I can answer that - because in spite of being idiots they are not COMPLETE idiots.)

Way too confusing for me. I try to keep it simple in wardrobe and firearm options. When I travel south I usually take one firearm suited for the majority of occasions involved.

I don't judge others choices. Everybody has their preferences and reasons.

A lot of folks have got the job done with 22s, 25s, 32s.




Any gun is a whole lot better than no gun.

All correct. I was just talking about myself.

I hear ya.

I wasn't aiming my remarks at any person, just generalizing.

its all speculation anyway. Who would think a guy would be shot 14 times with a .45 ACP and keep trying to kill the police guy.

a 12 ounce 380 in your pocket is better than your 38 ounce 45 ACP in the gun safe when you need it.

I read the cop story and the only reason to carry the 9 maybe is more ammo. Interestingly, back in the day when PCP was a major drug a lot of cops carried .44 mags as well as shotguns and BG's on PCP could take solid hits from a .44 mag plus shotgun and keep on going. So even a ,44 mag may not stop a determined BG and if he is on drugs it's Katie bar the door.

Like you, I wasn't aiming my comments at any one person here, but I'e seen some pretty vitriolic attacks elsewhere. I guess some people feel threatened when others don't conform to their ideas, a problem not at all limited to choice of firearms or method of carry.

Have you never seen a zombie movie? You got to shoot them in the brain. One between the eyes knocks the fight right out of them.

I am basically with most on here....I carry a XDs in .45 with backup mags pretty regularly.....but then I am constantly in very bad areas in one of the worst cities in America (Memphis)....I do have a LCP and I carry it only when I want to make darn sure no one knows I am carrying....I call it my church gun

Had a call where someone used one of those. 7 guys in a small bedroom, 33 empty cases on the floor (guess he squeezed another one in the mag). 3 guys hit, but only one guy hit with ONE round center mass. Vietnamese gang/drug deal gone bad. I just laughed. Guy hit center of the chest was pretty stable when I had him, but he crashed in the ER. Never found out if he made it or not.

Ditto from here..

Ok, now under those parameters (going to a big city - like North Murderapolis) ya dang tootin' I'll be carryin' something bigger - most likely one of my Kimbers or the Kahr P-45..

No

I've said it a million times...I like pocket guns when I'm in and out of places where I can/can't carry; they're convenient.

Otherwise, I'm carrying my Commander.

We had an incident here a couple months ago where an elderly woman went to her mail box(rural area where the mail box is out on the road away from the house). As she retrieved her mail, an armed bad guy saw the opportunity to forcibly abduct her, telling her that if she took him in the house and gave him all her cash that he would not shoot her. The woman's husband(Korean War Vet-Airborne Ranger) was watching the entire incident from his recliner in the living room. He grabbed his Ruger 380 off the coffee table, and as the bad guy pushed the woman through the front door, the husband pushed his wife aside, and shot the bad guy three times in the chest with the 380. The bad guy died on the sidewalk after he tumbled down the front steps. The bad guy did wing my buddy in the side with his 40 cal, but it was a very minor wound.

My buddy was very lucky the bad guy did not kill him, then again, if my buddy had got his hands on the bad guy, he would have killed him with the switch blade that he had in his pocket,83 years old. His self defense, knife and reload in the left pocket, pistol in the right pocket when he leaves the house. His ammo was Win Ball ammo.

Meth and Crack is changing certain aspects of our society. This bad guy was just cruising around looking for victims, which is happening more and more where I live.

Depending on your physique and the amount of clothes you're wearing, one of the micro compact .380's is all you will be able to conceal. I think of it as a last resort carry gun.
In the heat of summer when I often run errands on my Harley wearing only jeans and a T-shirt, having my Kel-Tec P3-AT in a IWB holster is a blessing especially when bouncing over our washboard-like Pennsylvania highways. I do choose a more powerful semi-auto in the winter when everyone, even the BG's, are wearing multiple layers of clothing. Or my double action totally titanium Taurus 5 shooter in 45 Colt. I have never been able to comfortably carry a full size auto or properly conceal it.

My latest carry gun is a 3" barreled SIG P-938 9mm in a IWB holster...not much bigger or heavier than the Kel-Tec. It's still too cold to see weather it suits me on the Fatboy.

Glad to hear your senior friends came out alright. POS got what he deserved. It's one thing to pick on someone who can defend himself (still a POS, but less of a POS). But it's inexcusable to pick on the young, old, or weak...that's just cowardly.

Don't know them, but I'll say a prayer for them anyhow.

I can easily conceal my LW Commander with jeans and a t-shirt. But not while on my motorcycle; just too much wind kicking the t-shirt up. I'm betting an extra long t-shirt coupled with a tucked holster could do the job; that's worth some thought.

I generally eithe pocket carry while on the bike, or wear my Colt's Cobra on a very high ride OWB belt holster under a long shirt. Rarely do I have my shirt completely pulled up by the wind, so it works. I like the Colt's Cobra when I'm desert trail riding on my KLX650 because I can carry snake shot for the first round or two.

Carry a .380 often for "practical" reasons, much more than my .45. From "reading" and history, I don't doubt it's a legitimate round (.380). From shooting steel on courses, however, have learned I need to double tap consistently to topple the targets. So for what that may/may not be worth and reflect, am inclined to think if I had to deploy it (heaven forbid) I'd "use the magazine capacity assertively", not knowing if 1,2,3 rds was going to stop anybody. But, that's just my random-guy opinion.

So far, I have not found a 9mm that just dissapears from sight and mind like my 10 ounce P3AT Kel Tec 380. If and when I do, I will try to buy it.

IMO, the Buffalo Bore +P+ 100gr HCFN load at 1125 from my gun (Chronographed) makes the 380 barely sufficient, but only at very close range.

I carry my 1911 in 10mm 90% of the time, even on a motorcycle with a vest over it. But, there ARE times when I just cannot readily conceal the 1911 and the Kel Tec goes along. With my Buffalo Bore deep penetrating loads I consider it to be a capable immediate close in range weapon, but nothing more than that. Partly due to the almost non existent sights.

You need to get T-shirts from Duluth Trading that will solve your problem.

www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
Food for thought, this is an interesting read with real world data.
My EDC are P30 or model 30, I own an LCP but it is not my go to carry piece.

RBunt,

I have that report saved to my favorites, and have forwarded it to several LEO's in my family and circle of friends. It is a really fascinating read, with some profound conclusions based on good, real data.

(But I still carry a hot loaded 10mm as my EDC)

That seems to be one of the more common sense articles I've read on the subject.

Most are just mental masturbation in the extreme.

RBunt227 -

Thanks for the link - this is the first time I've seen that article.

First, let me say I�m not in law enforcement or security, my home is in a rural area and I avoid crowds and downtown areas like the plague. While there is always the chance that I�ll encounter the odd crazy gone wild, the chances of me actually needing my CCW weapon is relatively low compared to others who spend more time in high-risk areas or activities. In addition, I consider the chances that I might need to shoot through barriers like auto glass or doors to be very low. The most likely scenario is a relatively close-range encounter � a few feet at most � and, although it may take some time to develop, it is likely to end rather suddenly. A running gun battle at longer ranges isn�t very likely.

Given that, my .380 with +P loads has seen a lot of carry duty. While I am fully aware my .380 is not as powerful as my 9mm (and holds half as many rounds!) or my .45, it is easy to shoot it well and recoil recovery time is minimal. For years I used a .22 semi for home defense, figuring I could dump several rounds into a BG very quickly. The article you linked to seems to confirm what I already believed � the cartridge is less important than placement and that a couple of well-placed hits generally do the job regardless of cartridge.

No. .38 Special is my bare bones minimum, and that preferably +P.

I carry a P3AT 380 with 90 gr Gold Dot bullets and 6.2 gr Power Pistol. This does 1100 fps over the chrono and the pistol weighs 10 ounces loaded.

In October 2013 I pulled it out and handed it to my friend who had wounded an antelope buck with his rifle. The 380 body shot was instant death to the ruminant and the big 6'2" 270 pound man was complaining about painful recoil.

Better than a rock, slightly.

9�18mm Makarov has been used by Eastern bloc military's and police for decades, has undoubtedly dispatched millions, and a 380 can pretty much match it, velocity and energy.

Is the 380 ACP a preference?
Without doubt no, but for small CCW pocket defense situations it is hard to beat.

You need to look at some actual statistics. The .380 is no where close to the 9mm,andi doubt that it has dispatched millions, probably not even thousands.
The 9 mm Makarov is not a 9mm parabellum or Luger.

ClarkM Said "In October 2013 I pulled it out and handed it to my friend who had wounded an antelope buck with his rifle. The 380 body shot was instant death to the ruminant and the big 6'2" 270 pound man was complaining about painful recoil."

That is what a lot of people find out after they buy these lightweight sub compacts

tbear - living in blue state Md. I fully understand the problems you face in Va. Last year I sold a Colt 25 ACP ( at a very good profit )
but missed having a small handgun. Already have several 357MAG's. Early this year I got a very old Colt 380 with a grip safety. Great gun !

Still have a full box of 25ACP, Anyone want it ?

Yes, a 1100 fps Kurz can kick in a small pistol.
In my little blow back it feels like a magnum.

You need better reading comprehension, now reread what I Wrote real slow two or three times, and maybe you'll understand what I said this time around.

Some people are just lucky beyond all statistical probability.

I've had my .380 in my pocket for the last 1-1/2 days and and I'm still alive to tell about it.

Of course I haven't needed it, but that's kind of the point - I don't expect too, either. I got my CCW in 2003, shortly after the shall-issue laws went into effect. In the 4,000-plus days since then, or the over 15,000 days since I left the service in 1974, I've never once needed a firearm for self-defense.

In the off chance that I do need a firearm, I believe the presence of one will be far more important then the cartridge it shoots.

Nope, my reading comprehension is just fine. Show me the statistics that show the9mmMakaorw has dispatched millions and show me the statistics where it matches the 9mm Parabellum

I did not question this ,but since you brought it up, it is very easy to beat.

Is the 380 ACP a preference?
Without doubt no, but for small CCW pocket defense situations it is hard to beat

I'm the OP, last night I purchased the S&W Shield in 9MM.
While I do like the S&W Bodyguard in 380, I took most of you guys advice and went larger. IMO the Shield was a good compromise between power and concealability. Thanks for your input!

Now the question! 7 rounds is it enough!

You now have to have a small 9 but at some point you will want a smaller gun for more discreet carry.

Isn't the 380 just a 9x17? Will it go through your body tissue
and bone? If you were shot with a 22Mag at say five feet away

would it not be the same as being hit by a .223 same bullet grn

same velosity? A 380 is actually bigger dia than a 35 cal 38.

So if I shot somebody with a 35 cal super duper mag rifle and

it went right through them and orbited the earth three times

before it hit the ground would they be anymore dead?

So if a 380 shoots plumb through you and drops 1 inch behind you

if you get shot placement isn't that enough for you?

Bob

The voice of reason ?LOL

HUH??????????

I probably should not bother to answer this but here ya go



Now, how many folks do you think had their lives ended with a 9x18 in the eastern bloc where this cartridge was used for several decades ?
My hunch would be more than just a few thousand in countries were tens and perhaps hundreds of millions were killed.
Figger it out yet?
And I never said it was a 9X19, yet it is not very distant.

Huge difference between self defense applications and assassination or execution.

How is .355 bigger than .357
The formula for kinetic energy uses velocity squared. it must mean something

You guys remind me of my ex mother in law, in that you'd tell her one thing, and she hears something completely different.

Now that's funny!

You are right I was thnking of the 9x18 sorry dude size does make a Diff. Bob

Maybe you aren't stating your point very clearly. Ever think of that?

From Hornady loading, manual:

Max load .380 with 100 gr bullet is 1000 fps
Max load for 9mm with 100 gr bullet is 1350 fps. That is 35% more velocity.
Looking for information on the 9mm makarov Wikipedia that 700LH likes to quote shows a 95 gr bullet at 1050 fps, energy at 231 ft lbs.

Using the formula Velocity squared times bullet weight divided by 459240 yields energy.

.380 is 221 ft pounds

9mm makarov is 231 ft lbs per wikipedia. A shade past the .380 but about equal probably with a 100 gr bullet

9mm is 405 ft lbs.

That is double the energy. You guys are blowing smoke if you are trying to convince anyone that the.380 or 9mm Makarow is close to par with the 9mm.

And I never said it was a 9X19, yet it is not very distant. per 700LH.

To me 350fps and 200 more ft lbs does not qualify as " not very distant"

True, bullet placement is paramount, just like in hunting and I sure don't want to get shot with one, but face the facts.

As 4ager said, thinking self defense is a lot different when you are considering clothing, high on dope or adrenaline etc.

Yes of course the 9MM luger is superior, I never said it wasn't. For self defense a 45 would be even better, Yet the fact remains I can drop a LCP in my jeans rear pocket completely undetected, and walk almost anywhere and be armed when even a PF9 the smallest 9mmm made is to large to fit there and be completely hidden.

A 380 is never the preferred choice, yet they come in a very small package and most importantly, one is still armed. I feel any self defense I encounter while so armed will be up close and a 380 even not the best will hopefully suffice.

I would 10 times rather be armed with a 380 acp that no gun at all.
Also a weapon an opponent doesn't know exists is almost always more valuable that one he is aware of.

Another 14 hours with the Walther .380 and +P ammo riding in my front pocket - and I've lived to tell about it!

Simply amazing.


Or not...

twice now I have seen this dude with a new glock 42 put 7 bullets into an 6 inch circle from 10 feet away without really aiming the gun and both times 7 shots under 2 seconds!

of course this is a .380 and so it does not count.

Stunt shooters don't count. Especially those with a 380.

I agree 7 is a lucky number of .380 holes! Why you could run an Iron Man marathon with 7 lucky .380 holes in your carcass.

Blah Blah Blah...

10+ pages of no consensus, who cares? I would doubt all the naysayers would line up and get shot with a 380 and then say "It didn't hurt"...

Of course you haven't needed to use it in a life or death situation either. A lot of people have survived many, many years without a gun at all.

so your suggesting we should all go out and do something useful like shoot our guns, hunt a turkey, or visit a zoo (which is similar to the campfire experience at times)!

When I was a kid we had BB gun fights and I got shot numerous times with no lingering damage. But I still would not line up to be shot with a BB gun today. In fact people have been killed with a BBC gun, does that make it an adequate weapon for self defense? A adequate weapon in my mind is capable in the worst of circumstances, not just in ideal scenarios.

My post was tongue in cheek but what the heck � today was another day and another 14 hours with the .380 in my pocket. The most dangerous encounter I had was with a gust of wind as I leaned out over a guard rail to get a photo of the canyon bottom 700 feet below at Canyon de Chelley. No cartridge made is worth a damn against the wind.

You are right of course, I have not needed it in a life/death situation. Should that occur I�d prefer my wife�s� Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal, my Browning BDM in 9mm and a gazillion rounds, or my Kimber .45. Or even my Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 Mag. Screw it � give me a Ruger Mini-30 or an AK. I chose the Walther for this trip, though, because it rides nicely in the front pocket of my jeans when I�m driving and it there when I get out and about. The others would require constant attention as I don�t like driving with them next to my body. (We�ve done 1850+ miles in the last 2-1/2 days and have 375 more to do tomorrow to get back home.) The other handguns would end up in the center console and probably be there, out of reach, if I needed them.

if you were at canyon de chelley in arizona, you were in injun country. Injuns no like white boys with guns, strictly taboo.
If they would have caught you, you would be speaking a couple octaves higher.

I would to a certain degree, I have seen the 380 and the 9x18 Makarov kill a few people but I have yet to see it stop someone. I witnessed a poor man empty a Makarov into a guy with a weird farming tool, all rounds hit the target yet the shooter was permanently maimed from the attack. I have a CZ-83 that I have carried before in the summer but not often.

My biggest concern is availability and price of rounds. 9x19 has proven to be more available and cheaper in my current living area.

I don't doubt it would get the job down but would it have the stopping power needed to get it done within the shortest time possible? To many questions to answer; where do you live, what is the threat you anticipate, in what environment do you think you will be shooting?

With the availability of very small 9x19 today perhaps the 380's day is done. While many of those new 9x19's aren't nearly as nice as a PPK/S they are slightly more affordable.

I guess that's not much of an answer....

so many variables someone posted of a LEO that shot a guy 14 times with a .45ACP and the man was still moving trying to kill the LEO. So many variables...the small 9's are cool for sure anyone know the MV of a 115 grain 9 +P+ from one of the short 3 inch barrels?

Heres a ballistic chart from Hornady: http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ballistics/2012CatalogCenterSpread.pdf It doesn't list a 115g P and all results are from a 4" barrel, so if the same applies to pistol barrel length as does rifle barrel length, you loose about 35'per second per inch of barrel length...I think

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

I can�t believe that I have never chronographed a Speer 124 grain Gold Dot from my Sig P938, but I can�t find anything on that. I did find some chrono data on the 90 grain Gold Dot from a .380 Sig P238 I used to own. For a 6 shot string I got an average of 940 MV, ES 52, yielding 176 ft. lbs. ME, 12 momentum, 4 Taylor KO. Contrast this to a 5 shot string of 230 grain Gold Dot shot out of a Springfield XDs .45: average 782 MV, ES 22, yielding 312 ft. lbs. ME, 25 momentum, 11 Taylor KO. The XDs is about 10 more ounces loaded than the P238. I�ll shoot the P938 soon.

Here's an iconic view of Canyon de Chelley.



Watch that first step! (It's 700 feet.)



Oh, yeah - another 5 hours with the .380 in my pocket.

Tomorrow I go to work and the 9mm will be in my car.

Here you go:





I chrono'd this Gold Dot ammo using my Oehler M43.

7 shot average was 1046fps
Standard Deviation was 15fps
and Extreme Spread was 40fps.

Both ammo and gun were at room temp.

Thanks. That is about what I suspected. So that gives ME of 301, 18 momentum and 6 Taylor KO out of a standard velocity round. I would much rather have the extra 34 grains of bullet travelling 100+ feet per second faster at an expense of an extra 4 ounces over the P238. (I realize that it�s an extra 10 ounces for someone who carries a 10 ounce gun.)

lots of folks have expired at the hands of the 9mm kurtz (sp) pretty much the equivalent of the .380

bought my wife one, as one of those is better than nothing.

like others, ain't no warm fuzzies for me figuring on protecting my wife or family with one of them.

no barbs intended at those that make it their choice for carry.

just not for me

hell any handgun for me is just something to sling lead to get thee to a rifle!

but I like mine to begin with a .4????

am thinking with bullet technology available these days, the 9mm stands taller in the saddle than it used to, no flies on it either

but .4? something for me, just a quirk of mine I reckon.

Gotta face it folks... a pocket gun is a pocket gun... Reduce the barrel length and so goes the velocity. I don't remember what the Buffalo Bore .380 hardcast rounds that Safariman sent were but it was close to 1050 from a KelTec 3AT.

Not too long ago there was a program on the ID (Investigative Discovery) Channel on "The .380 Killer". Don't remember what city it was but it was an armed robber that shot all his victims with a .380...most never made it 10' and all died. All with plain old 95 grain FMJ ammo.

I hadn't had a .380 since I sold the MACs (I had three of them) in the late 1990s... When Mackay put out the call for some .380 for his departments new backup guns I found close to 20 boxes that I sent. Along with those FMJs I found 400 rounds of what I used to load commercially that is the same load CorBon now markets with the 90 grain Sierra JHP. I didn't want to send that ammo as it was well over a 1000 fps so I looked around and decided to get a Kahr P380...and found a GREAT deal on one complete with night sights for $100 under wholesale.

The gun is so much more accurate and shootable than the 3AT or KelTec .32s I have been shooting...head shots at 25 yards were very easy with the hotly loaded ammo. I also bought a box of the Buffalo Bore hardcast.

So now that it is finally warm enough to start wearing the Proper BDUs I usually wear during the summer..and the .380 drops right in the pocket using a Desantis BDU holster...







Now I don't plan on leaving home without the .38 Super Commander but usually when in the house I don't have it on...just near by. So for now I'll also carry the Kahr whenever I have the BDUs on...

I think it will work....

Bob

...a .380 shooting...

Have a friend who runs a major security officers school in Durban SA. Was over there visiting him in August of 2001 and got home just before 9/11.

He and his wife have both been carjacked in the driveway of a house they used to live in.

One evening my friend is in the house and hears his wife pull in to the driveway. A few seconds later he hears a "pop" that he recognizes as a gunshot and runs out 1911 in hand.

The drivers door (right side of the car) is open and a BIG "gentleman" is standing there at the edge of the partially open door...he is not moving. My friend runs up and grabs the guy who the collapses to the ground...dead...

The guy had pulled the door open and my friend's wife fired one round from a Beretta .380 and caught him in the throat, the bullet angling up hitting the spine near the junction of the skull...instant "lights out". He died so fast when his jacket got hung up on the door edge he just hung there.

But even though the .380 worked perfectly she did shortly thereafter switch to a Glock 17...

Bob

rjm,

these are two very good, informative posts...

U R welcome....Bob

+1

if you're going to carry a .380, your bullet placement skills better be pretty damn sharp.

I don't need one of those but I sure do want one...

If you are ever passing through my neighborhood, I can let you can shoot mine.