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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
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A 380 is actually bigger dia than a 35 cal 38.
Bob
Now that's funny!
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 476
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 476 |
Isn't the 380 just a 9x17? Will it go through your body tissue
and bone? If you were shot with a 22Mag at say five feet away
would it not be the same as being hit by a .223 same bullet grn
same velosity? A 380 is actually bigger dia than a 35 cal 38.
So if I shot somebody with a 35 cal super duper mag rifle and
it went right through them and orbited the earth three times
before it hit the ground would they be anymore dead?
So if a 380 shoots plumb through you and drops 1 inch behind you
if you get shot placement isn't that enough for you?
Bob How is .355 bigger than .357 The formula for kinetic energy uses velocity squared. it must mean something You are right I was thnking of the 9x18 sorry dude size does make a Diff. Bob
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
You guys remind me of my ex mother in law, in that you'd tell her one thing, and she hears something completely different. Maybe you aren't stating your point very clearly. Ever think of that?
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,080
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,080 |
From Hornady loading, manual:
Max load .380 with 100 gr bullet is 1000 fps
Max load for 9mm with 100 gr bullet is 1350 fps. That is 35% more velocity.
Looking for information on the 9mm makarov Wikipedia that 700LH likes to quote shows a 95 gr bullet at 1050 fps, energy at 231 ft lbs.
Using the formula Velocity squared times bullet weight divided by 459240 yields energy.
.380 is 221 ft pounds
9mm makarov is 231 ft lbs per wikipedia. A shade past the .380 but about equal probably with a 100 gr bullet
9mm is 405 ft lbs.
That is double the energy. You guys are blowing smoke if you are trying to convince anyone that the.380 or 9mm Makarow is close to par with the 9mm.
And I never said it was a 9X19, yet it is not very distant. per 700LH.
To me 350fps and 200 more ft lbs does not qualify as " not very distant"
True, bullet placement is paramount, just like in hunting and I sure don't want to get shot with one, but face the facts.
As 4ager said, thinking self defense is a lot different when you are considering clothing, high on dope or adrenaline etc.
Last edited by saddlesore; 04/04/14.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,375
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,375 |
Yes of course the 9MM luger is superior, I never said it wasn't. For self defense a 45 would be even better, Yet the fact remains I can drop a LCP in my jeans rear pocket completely undetected, and walk almost anywhere and be armed when even a PF9 the smallest 9mmm made is to large to fit there and be completely hidden.
A 380 is never the preferred choice, yet they come in a very small package and most importantly, one is still armed. I feel any self defense I encounter while so armed will be up close and a 380 even not the best will hopefully suffice.
I would 10 times rather be armed with a 380 acp that no gun at all.
Also a weapon an opponent doesn't know exists is almost always more valuable that one he is aware of.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
Another 14 hours with the Walther .380 and +P ammo riding in my front pocket - and I've lived to tell about it!
Simply amazing.
Or not...
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,307
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,307 |
twice now I have seen this dude with a new glock 42 put 7 bullets into an 6 inch circle from 10 feet away without really aiming the gun and both times 7 shots under 2 seconds!
of course this is a .380 and so it does not count.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,102
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,102 |
Stunt shooters don't count. Especially those with a 380.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,307
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,307 |
I agree 7 is a lucky number of .380 holes! Why you could run an Iron Man marathon with 7 lucky .380 holes in your carcass.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,554 |
Blah Blah Blah...
10+ pages of no consensus, who cares? I would doubt all the naysayers would line up and get shot with a 380 and then say "It didn't hurt"...
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,910
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,910 |
Another 14 hours with the Walther .380 and +P ammo riding in my front pocket - and I've lived to tell about it!
Simply amazing.
Or not... Of course you haven't needed to use it in a life or death situation either. A lot of people have survived many, many years without a gun at all.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,307
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,307 |
so your suggesting we should all go out and do something useful like shoot our guns, hunt a turkey, or visit a zoo (which is similar to the campfire experience at times)!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,910
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,910 |
Blah Blah Blah...
10+ pages of no consensus, who cares? I would doubt all the naysayers would line up and get shot with a 380 and then say "It didn't hurt"... When I was a kid we had BB gun fights and I got shot numerous times with no lingering damage. But I still would not line up to be shot with a BB gun today. In fact people have been killed with a BBC gun, does that make it an adequate weapon for self defense? A adequate weapon in my mind is capable in the worst of circumstances, not just in ideal scenarios.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
Another 14 hours with the Walther .380 and +P ammo riding in my front pocket - and I've lived to tell about it!
Simply amazing.
Or not... Of course you haven't needed to use it in a life or death situation either. A lot of people have survived many, many years without a gun at all. My post was tongue in cheek but what the heck � today was another day and another 14 hours with the .380 in my pocket. The most dangerous encounter I had was with a gust of wind as I leaned out over a guard rail to get a photo of the canyon bottom 700 feet below at Canyon de Chelley. No cartridge made is worth a damn against the wind.  You are right of course, I have not needed it in a life/death situation. Should that occur I�d prefer my wife�s� Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal, my Browning BDM in 9mm and a gazillion rounds, or my Kimber .45. Or even my Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 Mag. Screw it � give me a Ruger Mini-30 or an AK. I chose the Walther for this trip, though, because it rides nicely in the front pocket of my jeans when I�m driving and it there when I get out and about. The others would require constant attention as I don�t like driving with them next to my body. (We�ve done 1850+ miles in the last 2-1/2 days and have 375 more to do tomorrow to get back home.) The other handguns would end up in the center console and probably be there, out of reach, if I needed them.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
Another 14 hours with the Walther .380 and +P ammo riding in my front pocket - and I've lived to tell about it!
Simply amazing.
Or not... Of course you haven't needed to use it in a life or death situation either. A lot of people have survived many, many years without a gun at all. My post was tongue in cheek but what the heck � today was another day and another 14 hours with the .380 in my pocket. The most dangerous encounter I had was with a gust of wind as I leaned out over a guard rail to get a photo of the canyon bottom 700 feet below at Canyon de Chelley. No cartridge made is worth a damn against the wind. You are right of course, I have not needed it in a life/death situation. Should that occur I�d prefer my wife�s� Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal, my Browning BDM in 9mm and a gazillion rounds, or my Kimber .45. Or even my Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 Mag. Screw it � give me a Ruger Mini-30 or an AK. I chose the Walther for this trip, though, because it rides nicely in the front pocket of my jeans when I�m driving and it there when I get out and about. The others would require constant attention as I don�t like driving with them next to my body. (We�ve done 1850+ miles in the last 2-1/2 days and have 375 more to do tomorrow to get back home.) The other handguns would end up in the center console and probably be there, out of reach, if I needed them. if you were at canyon de chelley in arizona, you were in injun country. Injuns no like white boys with guns, strictly taboo. If they would have caught you, you would be speaking a couple octaves higher.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 284
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 284 |
I would to a certain degree, I have seen the 380 and the 9x18 Makarov kill a few people but I have yet to see it stop someone. I witnessed a poor man empty a Makarov into a guy with a weird farming tool, all rounds hit the target yet the shooter was permanently maimed from the attack. I have a CZ-83 that I have carried before in the summer but not often.
My biggest concern is availability and price of rounds. 9x19 has proven to be more available and cheaper in my current living area.
I don't doubt it would get the job down but would it have the stopping power needed to get it done within the shortest time possible? To many questions to answer; where do you live, what is the threat you anticipate, in what environment do you think you will be shooting?
With the availability of very small 9x19 today perhaps the 380's day is done. While many of those new 9x19's aren't nearly as nice as a PPK/S they are slightly more affordable.
I guess that's not much of an answer....
Last edited by 44magtrapper; 04/06/14.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,307
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,307 |
so many variables someone posted of a LEO that shot a guy 14 times with a .45ACP and the man was still moving trying to kill the LEO. So many variables...the small 9's are cool for sure anyone know the MV of a 115 grain 9 +P+ from one of the short 3 inch barrels?
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,214
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,214 |
Heres a ballistic chart from Hornady: http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ballistics/2012CatalogCenterSpread.pdf It doesn't list a 115g P and all results are from a 4" barrel, so if the same applies to pistol barrel length as does rifle barrel length, you loose about 35'per second per inch of barrel length...I think
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 2,886 |
abusus non tollit usum
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,595
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,595 |
I can�t believe that I have never chronographed a Speer 124 grain Gold Dot from my Sig P938, but I can�t find anything on that. I did find some chrono data on the 90 grain Gold Dot from a .380 Sig P238 I used to own. For a 6 shot string I got an average of 940 MV, ES 52, yielding 176 ft. lbs. ME, 12 momentum, 4 Taylor KO. Contrast this to a 5 shot string of 230 grain Gold Dot shot out of a Springfield XDs .45: average 782 MV, ES 22, yielding 312 ft. lbs. ME, 25 momentum, 11 Taylor KO. The XDs is about 10 more ounces loaded than the P238. I�ll shoot the P938 soon.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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