I want another 45 besides my Ruger 3 screw but I get cold feet with the price of a new FA. I found one that I love but every time I am about to say yes I wonder if it is worth the 2500+ pricetag.

I have owned a few pythons in my life but would never consider paying what they go for now. For some reason I am close to justifying the FA.

What's your take on them (FA)?

The fit and finish is like a fine swiss watch. I'm still kicking myself for not buying a limited edition mdl 83 Alaskan Master guide series 454 that had roundbutt grip frame and 5 1/2" barrel. It fit me perfectly, I could shoot it very accurately and my buddies asking price was quite reasonable. But I didn't have the $1100 at the time so I lost out.

I do plan on getting a mdl 83 built exactly the way I want it one of these days, I just need to commit the funds to the project.

For revolvers they are in a class of their own and can't be compared to mass produced guns, because they aren't. They will hold their value.

I disagree about holding their value. I bought a new 83 FA .454 back in 1997. It cost $1600 and change. A friend of mine bought the same gun on Gunbroker a couple years ago for $1200, like new in the box. Don't get me wrong, I love my FA, but they aren't investments!

The 83's in the Casull don't hold their value like the 97's.




Travis

I bought a 97 and it was a very fine revolver. But there is something about them that I don't like. It's almost indescribable but I'll try.

The frame and overall size is awesome. And in .44 Special (mine was) I encountered no COAL problems with the cylinder. But if it's in a longer case, you'll find you have to seat over the driving band with certain, longish type bullets. So, the size is great, but there are drawbacks to it.

The tolerances are almost too good. When things dirty up you may have to really press on the cartridge to get them in the chamber enough to rotate the cylinder. When you thumb the hammer, they don't have the lightning fast feel of a Ruger or Colt. I can't explain it really but they're almost too good.

Also, if I stand on my hind legs and shoot with both my Flattop and FA, there is no difference. I hit everything or miss everything equally. So you sorta find yourself asking WTF you paid that much for something that your 29 or Colt or Vaquero will already do.

If you lay out prone or off a bench, you'll find they group tighter than anything. But as I said, it can't be seen when you start busting clays, cans, or critters. I have rolled a few 200 meter chickens with my old 97, but I've also done that with my 29 and Flattop.

One last thing, FA used a front sight height needed to achieve zero with 180 or 200gr bullets. Name one fugking person you know that spends $2K on a .44 Special, to shoot 200gr XTP's. I've never met one. When I called them and told them I wanted a different sight, they charged me like $40 or some schit.

And if you want a custom like trigger, go ahead and factor in the cost of having it "tuned" because the "untuned" version isn't anything to write home about.

I sold it after determining I'd rather put the money toward an old Colt, custom Ruger, classic Smith, etc.




Travis

Freedom Arms is just 10 miles down the road from the house. I went in there once with the wife and the checkbook. I won't make that mistake again. Next time I'm leaving the wife at home! Maybe that way an FA revolver will just sort of follow me home.

I don't like the feel of the grip frame of ANY of the FA's; I like the feel of a Ruger Bisley much better. And I think Travis hit on it about the accuracy. Sure it may be better technically, but it won't make ANY difference in the field.

I'd rather have a Ruger Bisley than any FA.

Travis, you just prolonged my decision to drop that much loot. Thanks.

I won't say that.

There are shooters in this world that can probably take advantage of the accuracy potential of the FA's. Even in the field/hunting or whatever. I'm just not one of them.

I think their round butt grips are second to none. Really like them.



Travis

I really wanted one after shooting RJM's. But after owning it and shooting it more extensively, it just wasn't for me.




Travis

I've been fortunate to fire many different variations of factory and custom Bisleys as well as FA 83's over the years. The FA 83 roundbutt is the best grip frame in my hands. It's rare for me to shoot groups a bit over an inch at 25 yds offhand, but I have been able to do with that with the mdl 83. I'd much rather have that be the case with the Bisley, but you have to go with what works for you.

I Want One! - and don't care what anyone else thinks or rationalizes about them.

Only thing holding me back is the $$$$.

And you know this how?

It's not a 97 but a helluva deal if not already sold.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/922611443/Freedom-Arms-Model-83-454Casull-w-Leupold-scope.htm

I have three 97s and an 83...and never spent $2K on any of them. Buy USED it is the only way to go. Almost all you will find will be at minimum excellent...most will still have the box.

As to the guns, if you want a 97 in .45 Colt make sure your favorite bullet will fit the length of the cylinder. They are much shorter than a Ruger or a Colt. The perfect round for the 97 is the .44 Special. Being a little shorter than the Colt or .41 Magnum all cast and jacketed bullets will fit the chambers.

Average selling price on GunBroker for a used 97 is in the $1650-2000 range depending on the caliber and configuration. I recently picked up a brand new custom length 6" .327 for $1900 delivered. The .22 5.5" was $1650, excellent but no box and the 4.25" .41 Magnum that Travis shot was $1850 but it came with over $500 worth of reloading supplies and a holster....so I figure I have $1350 into the gun. Right now there are several used 97s on GunBroker. One is a 7.5" .44 Special with octagon barrel, 3# action, trigger stop and custom walnut grips. It has a BuyNow of $1900...if you go over to the FA website and add it all up if you ordered the gun today it would be $2975. If it was a .41 I would have already hit the BuyNow. If you know exactly what you want and have a little patience you can find a bargain that when you sell it you won't loose anything.

As to shooting...I've had Colt SAAs, USFAs, and Rugers...all have shot well. The big difference for me with heavy loads is the Model 83 grip rolls much better for me than the Super Blackhawk or Bisley. The Bisley recoils right back into my hand and I can feel it in my wrist and elbow. I've also owned 83 in .454/.45 Colt and .475..both recoiled way too much for me.

For what I do with a Single Action, as in hunting and long range target shooting, if I only had one it would be my 6" 83 in .41 Magnum.

Bob

PW...those Marlin .41 carbines you have that will never be shot and are still NIB...one just sold on GunBroker for $4K... I just sold my friend's who died for the estate...his .357 sold for $3075.00 last Sunday... Sell one and you can buy the 97...and a lot more...

Bob

IMO Freedom Arms makes the best factory revolver ever built. I have never handled a custom revolver that was built any better.
Yes, they are pretty pricey and the waiting time to have one built is long. My last two required approximately 15 months to be built. One is an 83 in 44 mag with 6 inch octagon barrel, polished trigger and hammer and the action job. The other is a 97 in .22 LR with the optional 22 mag cylinder. It also has a 6.5 inch octagon barrel, polished trigger and hammer and action job.

Its not just they are so accurate but you are holding a piece of art work in your hand. Just cycling the action reveals it is built like a high end swiss watch.

Okay, FOR ME, it wouldn't make any difference in the field. I wouldn't take a shot on large game beyond 100 yards, and I could hit just fine with either revolver at that distance. A better marksman could push that further.

I think that's what's holding everyone back.

I'm more of an 83 guy. Love them. Couple of my custom smiths are close in accuracy at 50 and 100 yards but they are heavily customized and a good deal more cash than a factory FA.

As in life, many things work better with a little slop.

Ain't that the truth.

Travis made a lot of good points - agree with them all. I've never owned a 97 but am on my 4th 83. I started buying them in the late 1980's and was able to get them for around $1000 new then. Owned 3 different ones up until the mid 1990's and went to Ruger Bisleys after that. I truly appreciate the quality / precision, and the FA folks are wonderful people, but don't think I could justify the price of a new one today.

In 2009 I was passing through Post Falls and Cabelas had a used premier grade 83 454 with a Leupold 2x in FA mounts with original box and papers - $1200. At that time, they were typically in the $1700 range without scope (used / locally), so it came home with me. Wasn't sure I really wanted another one, but the price was too good not to - knew I could sell it for more than I was into it. I still have it and doubt I'll let it go, and can say I do prefer the 83 grip to the Bisley.

I've had a few 83's and only a couple of 97s (didn't learn after the first one. Travis and RJM nailed it. The cylinder is short and IMO is limiting to what rounds you can use. I tend to prefer the heavier bullets (which are longer) for caliber. It was very frustrating to not have much choice in ammo selection for a gun that price. Other wise if you are good with a lighter bullet that works with the cylinder I'd say go for it.

As far as grip goes I very much prefer the F/A grip to Rugers Bisley grip. I have a nice BFR I'm going to send to Huntington to have the grip changed to the F/A grip. Just gives me better control.

I agree with a couple of others. I'd not have a '97 in 45 Colt due to the short cylinder for cartridge. I personally love the FA vault-like tightness and have had 3 Model 83's and never had a problem. I now have a 475L Octagon 83 on order and when that comes in, I'll order a 44 Spl Octagon 97. Both with shortest barrel available. Delivery time on custom orders is approximately 14 months.

They are a bargain compared to Bowen, Linebaugh, etc. I have several Bowens and would of course rather have those....but they're 50% more than the cost of a FA.

The only thing i don't like about my Model 83 in 454 C is the Rubber Pachmayr Grips, need to replace with wood.

As far as COAL in the FA 83, this is what I tend to load.

260g/360g/395g


I have not found a reason to go above the 395g

The 360gr looks like a winner for deer

Maybe a million reasons not to.
No revolver ever made will out shoot a BFR. Spend money for looks but I buy accuracy and a stronger gun. I worked on too many and hate them. Want a better trigger, spend $100 for a lighter spring. 25 cent item. Tight? they will eat the throats and forcing cone quick along with rifling. Feel good stuff. Internal parts wear fast so the gun is not safe. NEVER have a round under the hammer. Transfer bars don't drop and hammer blocks don't rise. Push the hammer and see the firing pin come out. Heed the warnings, they don't trust their own guns. You bought a 4 shot.
Freedom .454 before and after. Freedom could not fix it but I did.
try this with a freedom, shotgun shell at 100 yards with a BFR and red dot.

I'm looking forward to shooting with my buddy BFR next year.




Travis

Pretty much this. I have a 97 in 22LR/22Mag. 5.5" barrel. It is really a custom gun.

A work of art and very accurate.

What reason did you have to go over 360gr?

I guess I differ here as well. Keeping tolerances to an absolute minimum does not make a firearm a "work of art" IMO.

The FA's are ugly, and sensitive in the functionality department.




Travis

To the OP's question - no reason not to buy a FA-97. As stated the cylinder is a bit on the short side. I had Mountain Molds make a LBT-style 300-grain GC bullet and they can put the crimp groove where ever you want/need it to be. Just about any mould maker that makes lathe turned moulds should have this ability.

"ugly"...ok

"and sensitive in the functionality department."...how do you figure that? I have a couple thousand rounds through the 654 .41...zero issues... Pushing 1000 from the 97/.41...zero issues. Have two others and had two more with zero issues... Cock hammer, pull trigger and gun fires... Have several friends with FAs and zero issues.

Bob

You never have to give your rounds an extra "push" to get them fully seated?

Never had a primer raised by less than a kgunt hair?

Either of these cause the cylinder to not spin.

Pretty is as pretty does, but unfinished stainless steel is unfinished stainless steel.




Travis

Yep...has real tight throats and zero tolerance for out of spec ammo. But since it will not do any of that with factory loads...where is the problem...the gun or the guy who loaded the ammo.

Bob

When it comes to metal fit and tolerances they are truly a work of art IMHO. Only seen one that that was not very accurate and it had a barrel that had no rifling.

...I don't doubt you...but the question becomes that since all FAs have a test target how did it get out of the factory...or was this before test targets...

Bob

I wouldn't consider your reloads out of spec.



Travis

Whoops. Grin...



Travis

Don't know how it got out of the factory that way. The FA-83 was sent to Jack Huntington to be converted to 475L and the owner said it was not accurate as is was. I happened to pick up the barrel and looked down the bore and realized it was as smooth as a babies bottom. I told Jack that barrel had no rifling, he ignored me until the third time. He then looked down the bore and said "I be dammed it sure doesn't".

Ed, I don't. Just playing around. The FA prefers the lighter pills, driven a bit. Twist and all.

On another note, looks like I found what one of my 252s likes today. I put five rounds of each in a ziplock and mixed them up. I took out 5 boxes, high priced eley to mini mag. I alternated between makes for each grouping.

Low and behold 1st and 3rd grab bag were the best and it was the same make, Aquila. First 5 grouped about 1" @100yrd, the second bag, it tightened up (or I got really lucky) to about 1/2."
It was written somewhere that a 252 held 1" at 100 in some review, I guess I can attest to that!
The variety between ammo makes was amazing. Shotgun vs laser. I will have to try the same ammo in the silhouette pistol. ( and also to shoot a bit more to ensure it wasn't a fluke)
Anyway, sorry to distract, from the op, it was just a good shootin day!

Anyway, sorry to distract, from the op, it was just a good shootin day!

Yeah, 97s hold their value ($2900 replacement cost)...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=509272732

Yowza.

Guess there's another reason not to buy one... grin.




Travis

You're dealing with reloaded ammo in a very tightly chambered gun. Just like 99% of .308 factory rounds will go into all rifle chambers the round you make up as optimum for one rifle may not chamber in another... So with a FA you just have to tailor the load a little more to the gun than a Ruger or S&W...to me it is worth it...

As to holding their value, a lot has to do with the configuration and caliber. Just saw a used 97/.22-.22 Magnum 7.5" with black Micarta grips sell for $2150. Same gun brand new but a 5.5" barrel and ivory Micarta grips sold for $2395.

Put a used 4.25" .41 Magnum out for sale and it will bring $2K+. 5.5" .45 Colt that cost the same money will only bring $1750.00.

Buy new only if you can't find what you want or will settle with...it is just like a car...

Bob

...and if this one was a .41 Magnum or a .22 it would have been gone on the BuyNow in a day...

Bob

Yes, and the guy that sold it would have LOST $1,000+ from what he paid for it! At least with a Ruger, you can sell it for what you paid for it!

Never saw that happen before...please let me know who pays the same price for a used gun as a new one...

Current retail....$625.00 Sold $315.00

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=509902616



Current Retail...$625 Asked $400...no bids.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=511146307



Current retail..$769.00 Sold $269.00

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=509638075


Excellent condition guns...all Rugers... Even if you pay the "going price" and not retail you are still going to loose be it a FA, Ruger, SIG , Glock...

Also you have no clue what that guy paid for that gun... 97s in .44 Special came out 10+ years ago so he may have only paid $2400 for it.. I just bought a brand new FA 97 .327 Federal from dealer that currently retails for $2390 with the options...I paid $1900 delivered..that is 21% off retail.

Bob

Bob, I wonder why you don't get their lifetime warranty on the field grade model? Everything else is the same besides finish, no?

...no clue... It even costs $99.00 to have the Field Grade finish put on a Premier Grade. And the only difference that I know of is the Premier Grade 83 has screw adjustable windage built into the rear sight. The 83 Field Grade and 97 Premier Grade guns are drift.

Since all but one of the FA revolvers I have bought have been used it doesn't really make much difference to me as the warranty isn't transferable anyway.

Go over and look on GunsInternational and GunsAmerica...there are LOTS of 83s and 97s on the market right now.

Bob

Just found out that you don't want to ever have to pay for a new trigger, hammer, safety bar and mainspring. Bought my 83 second hand and sent it in because the safety bar wasn't working and I suspected it was due to the original owner messing with the trigger. That was about a two hundred dollar bill. Ouch!

I've never handled a 97 but compared to the Ruger I had in .45 Colt, the "stoutness" of my 83 and just the overall tightness of how everything fits together is pretty confidence inspiring, I guess you'd say.

Had a used 97 that was super clean, 45LC and 45ACP, with the yellow micarta grips, should have never let it go, bought it for $1600

Both of my Ruger SBH Hunter's in 45 Colt are so accurate that I simply have no reason to consider an FA.

100% agree...had two .41 Hunters, both the Bisley and the SBH, and both were just as accurate as the FA 654.

I just liked the way the FA grip handled the recoil compared to the other two. The Bisley especially would transmit the recoil right into the palm of my hand causing shock to my wrist and elbow. With heavy loads the SBH would really roll in the hand so the web of my shooting hand would contact the base of the hammer. Have neither problem with the FA.

In comparing the FA 97 to a 4 5/8" BH, I could shoot the Blackhawk better without having to concentrate as hard as I do with the 97 4.25". The grip and recoil handling is about the same between the 97 and XW3-RED. The XR3 however doesn't fit my hand at all. But the 97 is so much smaller than the BH, so I sold them off and kept the 97 for a Packin' Gun. Long Range, I could shoot the short barreled Rugers much better than the 97s.

Bob