Why is every time I think I got this 1911 thing worked out things go south? I have been working really hard with the 1911 to get good with one again.

Tonight I had a failure to feed so bad that it tied the gun up. I couldn't get the slide to go forward or backward. It was about a 1/8 inch from being in battery but it wouldn't do anything. I finally beat it open and the round chambered smoothly and fired just fine.

I guess I might as well realize I'm stuck with Glocks and good smith & wesson revolvers.

Dink

How many do you own? See, if own 5 or so you can lie to everyone about how you have a 1911 that has fired thousands and thousands of rounds flawlessly. The way it works is that through 5 guns you might send thousands of rounds down range intermittently between failures but you could write of the failures and then fantasize that the cumulative rounds could have been fired in one gun. The problem isn't just "the gun" it's that you don't own enough of them and you are being to honest.

That sounds like an ammo issue to me not a gun issue.

I thought the same thing. But as soon as I got the slide back the round ejected fine. I then slid the round in chamber and it chambered fine. I then put the round back in the mag and it shot the last four rounds like owl poop. It was fine after that I shot 25ish more times.

I have been putting off ordering a smith 1911SC for a month. I guess I knew I could never carry a 1911 again. Just pizzed me off.

I have never seen a Glock locked up like that.

Dink

Get a Sig ........

I love the 1911's far more than any other, but no other has given me more chit grief than them, it sucks because I can point and shoot them best, but, the sombitches gotta go off!

Brand of 1911?
Brand of ammo?
Is this the only time?
Factory or reload ammo?
New magazines or old highly used ones?
What do you mean by beat it open?😳
Have you had someone else shoot it, if it's a repetitive issue?

Just some thoughts.

Have you seen 'em blown up?


Simple = reliable - get a Kahr...


That said, I own a few 1911s and like them. But they're not for people who know zip about handguns.. But my day-to-day carry guns are Kahrs - simply because they work and work well, every time I pull the trigger..

Only reason I carry the Ruger SR9c at times is because it has a 17 round capacity AND I'm somewhere around/near/in Murderapolis..

Does your Les Baer give you problems? Maybe I'm lucky but I never have problems from my 1911's

I do own a Kahr that has been 100% reliable for many years.

I have shot this Ruger 1911 2500ish times and the only issue it ever had was magazine release staying depressed a couple times early on.

I carry enough crap I can't carry a rubber mallet too....lol.

Dink

Odd.

Honestly, it sounds like an issue with a feed from magazine (perhaps the magazine is going tit's up) that had JUST the right geometry to bind. How, well, that's an interesting one.

Very odd. BTW, owned two Khars, NEVER AGAIN. As to my 1911s, I guess it must be me. Own four of them, including an Argentine 1927, pre- Series 70, Series 70 NM and a Series 80 Commander stainless and although the Argentine does not like HPs, all the others have never given me a bit of trouble.

The mag was less than six month old wilson 47D that was good before the jam and after the jam. The mag was stored empty also.

I got to thinking about mags. I have a glock 22 mag that has been fully loaded since 1998. It ran fine yesterday. It's back to fully loaded. I wonder if it will ever go bad.

Dink

The Kahr I had was dead reliable, from the first round to the last. Gonna give them another look when I go CC gun shopping again, maybe an all steel one this time.

I've shot 1911 mags loaded SINCE 1944 and they worked without a hitch. The first Khar I had would not re-cock every time and I had to send it back to get fixed. That was a 40. The next one, a 45, stovepiped with ball ammo about every fifth or sixth shot.

Chit no, that LB runs like a well oiled sewing machine, so does that little LW Commander 38 Super RJM pointed me too and Mesabi sold me, they've both ran without a hitch with anything I've put in the magazines so far.

As I mentioned, ammo type could be the issue. As mentioned in the Argintine post above, a lot of the older military guns don't necessarily like feeding modern hollow points.


As for Kahr class moments....have had two....still have one that will be going down the road...not bad, just not my cup of tea.....anyone interested? P45 with box and both mags.....excellent condition, not shot much.

Guess I've been lucky, I've owned a basic Springfield Arms 1911 I bought new around 1990 that I can't recall ever jamming, failing to fire or failing to extract. I've put more than a couple of thousand rounds through it, mostly gun show reloads when I didn't know any better and 230 gr factory ball. It's also handled several boxes of Federal Hydrashock jacketed HPs with no problems. It gets cleaned and lubed about every 200 rounds.

Sounds like you need to stick with your Glocks.

Why don't you run with the mags it came with?

Nothing wrong with that.

That said, I've had at least a dozen 1911s that were as reliable (assuming serviced as recommended) as a Glock. Sure, I've had a few that were problematic, too. That's what happens when a design is made by dozens of companies on a mix and match of parts from dozens of parts makers.

I had a Kahr K-40 for a while - just never liked that cartridge so it went out to someone else..

Which .45 did you have, the P-series? I have a P-45 that works perfectly BUT one has to have a really good grip on it in order for that model to work w/o a hiccup.. Any kind of even minor limp-wristing with that model and it'll stove-pipe.. That, and they all take about 2-300 rounds down the pipe to ensure proper break-in and performance..

FWIW.

CW-45 and that's what I figured was the issue, but the way I looked at it, if I had to use it to defend myself, the last thing I wanted to remember was to be careful how I hold it. No issues with my 1911s, GLocks or Sigs.

That must explain Jorge's problem with it.

Luck has nothing to do with it..........your guns are just set up right from the git-go or likely were properly corrected if a problem did arise.

Lots of people shouldn't have 1911's...............just like lotsa people shouldn't be allowed to cross the street by themselves either.

MM

Why is that?




Clark

TRH made a funny.




Dave

Exactly

I just find it strange how I never encounter all these bad 1911's. Now perhaps it's because I don't shoot 2,000 rounds per day for 5-10 days straight or something. But with normal numbers put through my guns, I have had ZERO problems. I only have two 1911's at current, one for 13 years, and one for 5 years now. Both get shot on a regular basis, and I haven't cleared a single malfunction out of either pistol. And all my friends who I go shooting with that have 1911's, none of them are having any problems.

There are a lot of great pistols out there, many better than the 1911, but the 1911 is typically a good pistol when built right.

All the Rugers I have played with have been very well made, and every one of them have worked.

You can get flamed around here for telling the truth like that RN.

The same goes for you Gun Geek. Both of you boys should know that old Browning design 1911 was never any good which is why it is still in production for over a hundred years, has gone through many wars, and has had many 10's of thousands of people sware by it.

What is a 1911?

Not all 1911s were created equal.

Not all 1911 mags are the same.

Not all ammo is the same.

But just having a jam and clearing it doesn't tell anything about what caused it. The Wilson mags have a known issue with springs that need to be replaced regularly. Wolff has an increased power spring that helps with those mags, but I don't use Wilson mags.

There are a number of variables to consider when troubleshooting.

The first solution is to feed the 1911 with ammo it likes and avoid ammo that doesn't feed well...that's a start.

Often the problem is related to a single mag in a group of mags that all look to be identical. Mark your mags and if one is found to be the culprit scrap it. If they are all problematic try another brand.

The 1911 is very reliable when fed correctly configured ammo from a mag that it was designed for. Most factory 1911s shipped with incorrect mags since the 70's. The correct mag design is the military pattern used through WWII that Colt supplied until sometime in the 70's, and most of the "improved" mag designs differ from that pattern and cause other issues.

What is a 1911?

1911a1...keep in mind that the original pattern was codifed for a reason and not chosen arbitrarily.

Of the dozen or so that I've owned, I've had problems with four. The Springfield Loaded model I bought early on in that run was useless out of the box. Springfield fixed it up, though, and threw in an action tune job. After that, it went thousands of rounds without a failure ... not one. The other two were Kimbers ... my only two Kimbers. Both were lemons. Both were also shorties, so that might be why.

Then there was the used Colt Officers ACP I bought in the 1980s. Worthless. Could be it just needed some spring and magazine switches, but I just sold it at a gun show. Whoever got it probably just did some spring and mag switches and resolved the problem, but I don't know. So that's four out of the dozen or so I've had. The remainder were, and have been, completely reliable to my experience.

Statements like that are why some people should never own 1911's.

MM

I had no idea the 1911 was akin to Excalibur.




Dave

Just goes to show that you can still learn something everyday............

MM

You people need help.





Dave

Didn't you have one blow a extractor?

Dink

Didn't you have a Brown that wouldn't run?

Dink

I am starting to think the 1911 guys that shoot just put up with them jamming and the rest of the 1911 guys don't shoot.

Guys make excuses for them magazine springs, ammo not right, bad grip, etc. you never hear glock, sig(non 1911) or HK owner say stuff like that.

I have had some good 1911s but they all are just waiting to let you down. I may try a sig 1911 and try one more time.

Dink

Nope, total POS... Never amounted to nothing!!!

BLOW an extractor? That's rather dramatic...

I broke a firing pin. It was a Wilson Bulletproof firing pin, the best money can buy, and it happened after about 4k rounds, which is all but unheard of with a Wilson Bulletproof...clearly there was a metallurgical flaw in the part; that can happen to any gun.

It was the only failure to fire in 11 years and 11k rounds...the only one. That was about 1.5 years ago, the pistol has had just shy of 2k more rounds since that happened. No jams, no failures of any kind...that's pretty good, wouldn't you say?

Nope. In tour own words, " total POS... Never amounted to nothing!!!"...grin

So did I catch that your 1911 is a Ruger? Send it to them and give them the opportunity to make it right.

Honestly, I can't for the life of me figure out why you have a 1911. I've never seen you say a positive thing about them since you signed up here. I can't count how many times you've made the statement about people making excuses...

It's a pistol, if it doesn't work, fix it or chit can it! Why would you make excuses for a gun that doesn't work? If your Glock didn't work what would you do? Bitchh about it on a forum, or get it running? Ruger will make it right.

BTW, I don't see people making excuses. Some are offering advise as to why it's not working...no one is saying it's okay to have a gun that doesn't Work.

Given your past I suspect the only reason you have a 1911 is so you can bitchh about them on forums... Seems to be the only song you know. Really what kind of a guy spends several years complaining about 1911s on an Internet forum, and then goes out and buys a 1911? To hear you talk about it, it's the worst pistol ever created since the dawn of time. And you bought one???? Yeah, THAT was a smart move!!

Hey, dangit. A Sig 1911 will change alla that. Maybe. Heck, it's worth a try ain't it?

My Colt and S&W are stock except for cosmetic changes, and both work perfectly.

FWIW, I'm convinced Sig and S&W's sub-contractors are the same for internal parts.

Pffftttt....This is nothing, you should see the guys with 2011s. I've been dremeling my $90 mags, reworking the overall dimensions in a bench vise, so that I can polish them in a tumblr and then make sure the feed lips are still in spec and tweak them if not.

So your zero problems really are not zero. Funny about that selective memory.

I think I would remember a gun being in operable as a problem.

Not that it's any of your business but the gun was a gift from my wife. I had been out of 1911 business along time when she bought me one.

I carry a gun everyday. A nine shot light weight commander is a appealing gun to carry in my opinion.

I read that guys own them and that they work but I am starting to believe that's simply not true. Guys post they work and zero problems with them but forget about things like broken firing pins...cause that kind of stuff is not really a big deal..

Dink

They will probably ask him why he doesn't use the mags they sent with it.

I've owned 2 1911's. The first was a Springfield Milspec. It was ammo sensitive but hey it was a Milspec. Put ammo in it that it liked and good magazines and it would run without any troubles. I kept that one for about 20 years, shot thousands of rounds out of it and it was running fine when sold. The second is a Sig Sauer 1911 Max Michael. After selling the Springfield I really missed not having a 1911 in the collection and bought the Sig about 4 months ago. This one hasn't hit the 1000 round mark yet but as of today has been 100% reliable and has digested everything I've feed it.

I guess I've just been lucky.

I do use the magazines that come with it on the range. The Wilson 47 and 47D are the gold standard in 1911 magazines.

Wilsons, chip McCormick, etc are supposed to be the finest 1911 mags made.

Dink

Agreed. What ammo? I tend to stay away from truncated cone ammo in a 1911.

And I usually do..

Man, you got all THAT right...

Just because it's a 1911-style handgun does NOT mean that the individual manufacturer took the time and effort to ensure they're "right" when they leave the factory..

Most do not, especially some of the earlier models.. I think today they're overall quite a bit better - what with the newer metal technology and high-end CNC machines for the manufacture.

Ammo's better too. But those above who recommend finding the ammo that particular handgun likes are SPOT ON... And 1911s are mostly picky in that regard..

EVERY gun is susceptible to parts breakage regardless of the design or manufacturer. So outside that, my gun has given me no problems in 11k rounds.

But you seem more interested in proving a point than addressing your gun that doesn't work.

So when you make a statement like that, even after I've explained the circumstance, then it becomes painfully obvious that you just really don't know chit about handguns. Parts break, regardless of design or materials; it just happens. It even happens to Glocks.

Sell the 1911 to pay for marriage counseling. Cause if she doesn't know by now how much you hate 1911's and 1911 owners; then your marriage has some issues.

And you're right, all the 1911's that you hear about that work...it's all a big conspiracy. We've all made the colossal mistake of buying a 1911 and we're just trying to sucker in the next guy so were not alone with our broken/don't work 1911's.

Kevin I enjoy your conversations but I cannot recollect you posting a picture of your guns or targets. If you want a nice gun get a 1911, if you want a tool that statistically has a better track record of working all the time get a glock.

Police Departments all across the country DON'T issue 1911's. The 1911 has never been widely issued even before the proliferation of other designs. An exception is departments issuing them to SWAT or other special units within them.

IMO the best thing to do would be to trade the Ruger on something you want. I haven't heard of many issues with the Ruger 1911's but Ruger itself is notorious for recalls. I've still got a few Rugers, but for the most part I avoid them anymore.

They certainly are priced like gold. But if they don't work in your gun, that doesn't mean much - does it?

Do the Ruger mags work, or not? Mine have been flawless (I'm lying). So have the Checkmate mags I already had - which were flawless in my lowly RIA (bull). Oh - and the Colt factory mag (no way). The Novak/ACT mags - not so much. [/sarcasm] Can't see buying "the gold standard" when other lesser priced but high quality mags that more resemble the original design work just fine.

Yeah - we really need more "junk" 1911's on the used market. Maybe for the price of a nice steak dinner for you and the wife, I can get that SR1911 and use it for parts when mine breaks. Whaddyasay?

Haha, The 1911 drama continues, got to love it. Geez.

Nope, at least as far as 1911's go...........mine are just fine.

Likely the complainers are the ones that need help; which category are you in?

MM

I still have my Kimber Covert, have had 5 or 6.

I'm in a category of its own.

But getting back to what you said earlier, why should some people not own 1911's?



Dave

'cause they'll tire of Glocks quickly after a 1911, and someone needs to buy Glocks

race cars gotta be wrenched

I'm not sure your attention span is long enough for the reply or that you really want to hear it either, much less have any appreciation for the content.

Not looking for an argument or a discussion, just stating a fact(s).

MM

Ok.

How did you determine some people shouldn't own 1911's?




Dave

Yep, so that makes five. After I fitted and installed a new extractor, it ran 100%. I don't think I'm forgetting any others, but I've been carrying and shooting lots of handguns since 1980, so it's possible.

No problems before ..hmmm....why was that Wilson firing pin in the gun to began with?

Dink

Again, Dink, the Sig and the Glock are all in-house production guns, made by the same company from top to bottom. The 1911 isn't the same kind of animal at all. It's a design, not a product. You can only compare individual specimens with the likes of a Glock or a Sig. There's no such thing as a 1911, per se. There are guns made according to the 1911 design to one extent or another, and by different makers, the parts of which are usually made by still other companies.

Federal case, 6.1 grains of unique, federal large pistol primer with a zero 230 grain FMJ. Checked with a Dillion chamber gage also.

Dink

An AR is a design.



Dave

My Ruger mags have been fine so far but so have my Kimber pro mags, chip McCormick mags, etc.

I was trying to prove I could get a 1911 to run so I was using good mags.

Dink

In the last month two guys I work with have bought new springfield 1911's.

One bought a new MC Operator. Factory mag and factory ammo (I don't remember brand). It would not run a full mag with out a malfunction, mostly failure to ejects. We blamed the ammo.

The other one bought a new range officer. He said the gun had been flawless...first round stove pipe with winchester white box.

I have heard both guys say how goo dog guns they are. Neither have been carrying them though.

It can't just be my bad luck.

Dink

Yep. Same concept.

Agreed.



Dave

Because you read that on the Internet?

I have no use for either.

I can't speak for MM, but I made my determination based on people that know little about firearms and even less about 1911's, and then complain and spew idiocy about both.

I only use MetalForm in my 1911s, and then only the versions with the standard 7 round capacity and the traditional follower, featuring the nub.

See "nub" illustrated here:



The nub is crucial, and part of the original Browning design, because as the magazine spring wears out, that last round can otherwise start to slip forward of the extractor hook (the nub prevents this by the rim catching on it, preventing forward motion till the slide forces it forward), requiring the hook to snap over it on closure of the action, thus wearing out the hook, eventually causing breakage.

I still don't understand why a person shouldn't own a 1911.

You and MM seem to imply that the same person should own other designs but not this one.



Dave

The pistol was first put into service in 1911 and remained in service through World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the War in Vietnam. The old war-horse proved to be particularly useful in the tunnel fighting that went on in Vietnam.

The enduring reliability of the Browning-Colt .45 military model is reflected in the fact that about 50,000 pistols "disappeared" from the 380,000 made between April 1917 and November 1918. Including pre-war production, about 100,000 of the 520,000 pistols bought by the Government disappeared in the total six-years between the first orders and the conclusion of the war. A good thief knows a good thing when he sees it.

So it served America's military with distinction and an unmatched reputation for reliability for over 60 years until International politics caused a change to 9 mm.

Exactly NONE of the other pistols mentioned here have been around that long and many of them never will be. It's already been correctly said that some people ought not own one and you have to wonder if the 1911 is as bad as they say, why in hell do they?

Why?




Dave

Not sure what posting photos has to do with this discussion, but I have posted many photos over the years...I guess you just miss those.

And I would agree with your statement. Glocks are great guns, I'm all for them and have nothing against them. I don't espouse that 1911's are the greatest or any such nonsense. I merely reject the notion that ALL 1911's are junk and don't work.

I keep forgetting, you don't really know much about guns or shooting.

Okay, so for people who shoot their guns quite often, we do this thing called MAINTENANCE. So after the pistol had burned through 6-7k rounds, I decided to change out the firing pin simply because it has seen a lot of rounds. I'm kinda weird, but I do that regardless of model of gun. The idea is to avoid parts breakage...little did I know I may have actually induced the issue by putting in a defective part. Chit happens.

Guess what, that same issue can, and HAS happened even with Glocks.

Or how 'bout a guy who spends a significant amount of time trying to convince everyone else that there is no such thing as a 1911 that works. I would say THAT guy would be a really bad candidate for a 1911.

I believe "DINK" has some time behind a handgun and has carried one for a living for quite some time.

And some of those times have been in places that make the news a lot.

So I ask again (since you're the third person saying some people should not own a 1911), why should some people not own a 1911?




Dave

This malfunctioning 1911 issue has been brought up in the past I remember. Gee I must be real lucky, as every 1911 I've ever owned has worked without one problem. Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket. I own Kimber, Colt, and Sig currently, and have owned more Colts, and Springfields of various lengths in the past. Of course I do maintenance, and cleaning every time I fire them. Come to think of it, I've never had a problem with any handgun I've ever had, except for a Taurus revolver from several years ago.

So did his parents

So - you had it running good with the good mags it came with, which are designed to feed ball and HP......and you switched to mags that are designed to feed wadcutters (inspired by the competition crowd) to prove you could get it to run. Got it.

BTW - my Colt spec and Ruger mags all feed ball, HP, and SWC in both my Ruger and in the RIA that preceded it (in my mind).

Owning one is one thing. But blaming malfunctions on the design as a whole without having acquired knowledge of what is required to make it work is another. If someone wants to own a 1911 and never bother to figure out if it runs right or why, that's their business. But those people would be better off learning something, instead of spouting off about their personal problems and ignoring the real assistance.

There's your problem. You're relying on luck. There are known reasons for every kind of 1911 malfunction. And known cures, when needed. You can apply your brain to solve the problem (or quit causing it), or you can walk away from it, or.....keep whining.

FreeMe how many rounds a year do shoot your 1911's?

I don't see how buying $700-$1200 pistols is relying on luck.

I want to know the qualifications required to own a 1911 and nobody will help.




Clark

21 years of age with no felony or misdemeanor domestic violence convictions...all I got.

Flave, you weren't asking me about why some people shouldn't own a 1911 and it jogged my memory.

A few years ago I was in a level 4 security class, a small class. Most every one had some experience, a retired ranger (Colonel) a Sgt Major, and so on.

One student had shot an M9 in the Navy.. He was going to use the instructors 1911 because he had ammo for it. That dude didn't have a clue about much so the instructor worked with a little on its basics. After awhile the instructor said F it and made him use a 9 mm XD. The 1911 was, I guess to complicated for him i.e. engaging the safety and so on and so forth.

I understand if had a lot more time and training he might of mastered it, but not that day.

I've never, ever understood the problem people have with the safety on a 1911. I switch between a 1911 and striker guns regularly and have never missed the safety or "forgotten" to use it. Disengaging the safety should be a natural part of the presentation.

Was his call sign "Mongo?"




Ace

Are you convinced you should own one?



Dave

did you not read my last post. I recall you saying Browning hi power's were a POS ( or something to that effect). So wouldn't you think such disdain of a weapon would make you not a great candidate to own that weapon?

DINK goes into his new ownership of a 1911 with zero faith in that weapon. I'd say that makes him a bad candidate for a 1911 owner.

I hear you. For nearly a century people of been disengaging safeties of all types. then in the 80s can start showing up without safeties and suddenly people are completely confused, can't operate a safety, and now you have those who profess they'll get you killed.

Just like how people were able to manipulate an external hammer on a rifle, shotgun, or handgun for some 400 years, but now days all the instructors say to never mess with the hammer on any loaded firearm. I've been lowering hammers to half cock on Winchester 94's, muzzle loaders, and various Winchester pump 22's since I was eight years old, not once has a hammer slipped from my fingers.

Kevin,
I am just realistic about what a production 1911 will do. What it will do is let you down. I bet I have owned and been around more 1911's than you have.

I wish they worked but I can't get them to all the time.

I also bet you don't burn many rounds in yours or carry yours very much. That's the reason you don't post pics of it.

Dink

I currently only have one. My round count varies, since I'm not a professional shooter. I dunno, a couple thousand or so these days. Much more in the past. The HP eats more of my range time, and the K9 eats some as well. Once several thousand rounds have gone down range without fail, I think the point is moot.

I started my 1911 experience with a cheap RIA, expecting that it wouldn't run right out of the box and that I would learn something in the process. It didn't, and I did. After applying what I learned (which was all simple stuff) that gun ran without fail, and continues to do so. I skipped the whining part.

You can spend a lot of money on a 1911 that runs right out of the box and still make it fail with the right parts or mods. I don't think you're relying on luck with your purchase - just with what you did afterward.

You really belive Internet photos are an indication of experience?

Cripes! Who has time to photograph everything?

Here is what pics will tell you about a gun that supposedly used hard. If it looks new in the box they ain't being carried or used.

Kevin likes to copy pics off the net and say his 1911 "looks like this one".

If a gun been carried everyday for more than a decade it's going to show it.

Dink

You make a good point, there, Kevin. The concern is likely much overblown.

Ah, just another "_____ pistol sucks because mine didn't work perfectly" thread.

I have no idea how many rounds Kevin has fired from his 1911. No idea how many have been fired from mine, either. It's a 1970s vintage Colt Series 70, factory nickel, that was bought by the father of a dear friend and carried by that man for many years. My friend then carried it, and I know for a fact that both of them shot the Hell out of it (as they did with all the firearms they owned). I received it as a "gift"/"permanent loan" almost a decade ago. I've carried it a LOT and shot it a LOT. To my knowledge, it has never failed to feed, fire, or eject.

Obviously, YMMV, but it doesn't mean that the 1911 is a poor choice for carry. You simply prefer something else. I don't like or trust Beretta M9/92s because I had three break on me. I know other folks who have carried and shot them for years with no malfunctions whatsoever. Does that mean the Beretta "sucks" because I don't trust it and had bad experiences with it? No. It means I need to carry something else because for ME, the Beretta isn't something that inspires confidence, and confidence is key. Hell, I even had a Glock go "kaboom" on me; something that I've never had happen with any 1911 I've owned or shot. Does that mean that Glocks "suck"? I think not, but if you're going to malign an entire design because you are having problems with it while others don't, well....

Anyway, enough with that; have fun with the rest of the trolling post as you've clearly gotten plenty of bites and I suspect that was the purpose.

Hmmmm.... now WHO would overblow such a concern?













Just a small sample from no later than late April.

Still, though, I've seen Hickok 45 forget to take the safety off guns he's testing, and that guy is fairly experienced, having at one time competed extensively with 1911s. For what it's worth, his recommendation is to decide whether you're a cocked and locked guy or a no safety guy, and stick with it, for this very reason. Makes sense.

Ah, you saw it on the Internet from someone else doing something and therefore it must be so.

NO surprise there....

No, but lineage would have suggested the Congo. Lol

So do Model A's.




Dave

Obviously.



Dave

The 1911 should include a free armorer's course.




Dave

Laughin' here.

MM

Let's be clear. You're suggesting one of two possible things, either that Hickok45 actually isn't an experienced handgun shooter, or that he pretended to forget to deactivate a safety on a handgun. Which one?

No, let's be clear; I'm not suggesting anything at all and much less that horsechit of a dodge you just attempted. I'm stating something rather plainly: that you said that your basis for your position on safeties is that you saw someone else do something on the Internet. That you base your opinion on someone else doing something and you seeing it on the Internet is no surprise.



Reading comprehension 101, Chriss....

Pure hyperbole, my friend. No one's buying it, apart from your amen corner here at the Fire.

Oh, but these days it does. One has only to invest the time.

No, folks know quite clearly that you aren't stating anything from personal experience; you're basing everything off of what you saw someone else on the Internet do. That's what you said, and that's exactly what I restated and it's still not a surprise.

Other folks talk about personal experience; you talk about seeing someone else do something on the Internet.

I've used a 1911 since 1974 and have failed to wipe the safety off. Rifles and shotguns have safeties and people have not railed against them seems safeties are only a problem to a few hand gunners. Deactivation of a safety should be automatic or you aren't familiar enough with your weapon.


Apparently your hero Hickock45 needs a bit more familiarity with said handgun

Did you mean to say that you've never failed to wipe it off?? That's awesome, man. You're my new hero.

Amen.

Wait... what are we talking about?




Dave

Youtube cures all.

Well, not all. But a bunch.




Dave

Come on, JW.

Anybody with a bunch of steel targets and a picnic table in his backyard has it going on.




Dave

Google "Wheel:Reinvention"

Dave Clark Flave (What a great band!), I'll answer your question on who should not own a 1911: Anyone who whines about Montana non-resident license fees.

Next question.

For a band that never made it out of the garage...
Good answer. Yeah seems he got alot of axes in the shed that need grinding. Been running into those axe grinders lately. They really don't want answers, just a soapbox and bullhorn. Must be the hot summer.

Do you and or Hickock have trouble with rifle and shotgun safeties or just 1911 safeties?

I've never failed to wipe the safety, rather easy actually

Who has an axe to grind?

The guy who spouts off about how "some people shouldn't own a 1911" without any reason or basis and refuses to either explain himself or admit that he was just spouting off......or the guy who says "what do you mean?"?

There's definitely a few people spouting off, grinding axes and trolling. But it's not the guy who says, "Can you explain that?"

Who should or should not own a Glock?

GO!



Dave

It's been quite pleasant actually.




Dave

She's just another cyber-bully.




Dave

PS - Is it ok if I own a Shield? I didn't research the qualifications prior to purchase.

What's "a lot"?

I work a second job solely to buy powder, primers and bullets. My definition of a lot and your probably differ.

How many rounds have you personally put through the colt in ten years?

I am sure there are production 1911's that work but the ain't near as common as everyone says they are.

Your last statement almost hurt my feeling. I didn't force anyone to reply.

Dink

I think you're good to go on the Shield as long as Blue says it's okay. (And as long as it doesn't have a manual safety, because you may forget to wipe. No one wants that.)

I used to think that anyone who was legally and financially able to own a Glock and desired one should own one. Based on recent speeches, I now think that black people shouldn't own them... Unless they have schoolbooks and computers...Or are looking to steal some schoolbooks and computers...Or are worried about bear attacks while playing Pokemon Go. Then they should definitely own a G20.

I should not. Because I reload.. And because I think they're brick-ugly..

Dat's why..

I don't keep count, frankly. I could toss out some number, but it'd be a flat out guess.

My last statement clearly was accurate.

The "why is it.." question got 5+ pages of mostly insightful explanations by smart guys. But his responses to insightful explanations implied rejection of their explanations. As far as the "what do you mean", the spouting off was the only thing left to talk about, as the original "why is it" was answered IMO. Trolling commenced as the OP got answers, which he didn't originally want. So, moot. Multiple pile on.
Linear thinkers often have problems with this.
Air conditioners and rehydration might help.

I'd wager you shoot a handgun about as well as you read.



Dave

I'd wager you're quite a quick draw with a six pack.

Who buys six packs?




Clark

If all 1911s were manufactured correctly it wouldn't be necessary, but since they aren't this wouldn't help.

Because of the variations between different manufacturers, every part of a 1911 is a gunsmith fit these days by someone who is trained on the 1911.

A Glock Armorers Course is like a day long and at the end bang...everyone in the class is certified and gets a diploma.

It takes longer than that sometimes for even experienced machine workers to be taught how to fit a 1911 extractor correctly, and some seem to not get it, and that is assuming the extractor is made right from the correct steel and properly heat treated.

Triggers and sears...forget about it...even the simple sear spring is a tuned part.

Not that it couldn't be done, but there aren't enough qualified armorers available for hire to keep even a single medium sized department's 1911s in good running condition, and I wouldn't want to be the one who had to train them!

Of course all this assumes that someone wants a 1911 that is made to correct specifications and runs well for tens or hundreds of thousands of rounds as they should.

Glocks do well all-around and are a great innovation. In harsh conditions the 1911 design has some advantages to the others, but not when made from out-of-spec manufactured parts that would have ended up in the reject pile in the earlier part of the last century. The 1911 marketplace is cluttered with what amounts to no-spec parts.

So when guys have functional issues with their 1911s I'm not surprised...what surprises me is that they function at all.

So if you do end up with a 1911 that works, you then have to mature as a shooter and learn how to shoot the beast.

A good friend of mine went through a few 1911s including a $2000 Les Baer that wasn't right, but is now carrying a $400 Smith M&P .40 police return that is working fine for him and is easier for him to be consistent with. At some point he just needed something that worked.

He tried for a couple of years to make the 1911 work but he shoots the Smith a lot better than the 1911 he was struggling with, aside from the functional issues, and easier and better than the Glock as well.

So he's staying with it for now, he can count on it, and for him it's the better option.

If there are ANY flaws in one's marksmanship training or pistol shooting skills, a 1911 will find them!

One of my exes could drill out the Xring with my CZ at 50 feet during a rapid fire mag dump, but couldn't hit the paper with one of my Springfields.

In troubled times I'd reach for a 1911, but 1911s aren't for everyone.

That was a damn fine answer Boogaloo!




Dave

Hey kgunt!

Check out Boogaloo's response. ^^^^

Was that so fugking hard?




Dave

I fully expect(ed) better out of you, Blue.

If I really thought Deflave, Clark or Travis or WETF his name is, was seriously interested in "why some people shouldn't own a 1911", I'd provide the full & complete response since I'm the one that 1st said that "some people shouldn't own a 1911".

But, he's not really interested, so there's really no point in having a conversation...........in fact as I recall, he's made numerous highly negative comments on here over time about 1911's & the people who like them.

Like for instance his comment in this thread along the lines of "you people need help", meaning 1911 proponents............simply no money in responding to that kind of BS, IMO.

I have nothing to either gain or lose by wasting my time responding to him, & perhaps, maybe now, to you too, so I don't intend to.

MM

Speaking of a waste of time!!!

JFC!



Dave

All I can say is you're entertaining as all hell.

I am interested in knowing why.

Dood, you could toss out any number and either he won't believe you or he won't be impressed. You're not going to get anywhere with this guy. Just every so often he feels the need to have this conversation.

I just think it's f-ing hilarious that he started this one off by saying it's a 1911 that he owns. Even more funny, his wife bought it for him. I just laugh every time I think of that.

That was a nice gesture on his wife's part.

Even though she bought him a pile of schit.




Dave

Unlike some EMT, bodyguard, security officer, hi-power egg spurt , part time ninja people I own a lot stuff. I think she did pretty well.

Dink

Sometimes the truth is funny.

Dink

Thanks, I needed that.........you just proved my point.

TFF !!!

MM

I was not casting stones.




Dave

And you forgot gunsmith.




Dave

Can I keep my 1911 or not?!?!?!



Clark

You can do whatever you want to do with it but I can't understand why you would want to keep a type of gun that you think is a pile of schitt.

MM

After high school and before I went in the Navy, for about three years all I did was go to work and then spend all my money on a 56 Chevy with a 327 engine that was putting out 350 HP that I drag raced every Saturday night. In 1970 I bought a Chevy Camero SS 396 putting out 375 HP. It was a good performer, but it needed someone with several years of driving and racing cars in that power to weight catagory. When a friend heard me say that, he seemed pissed about a casual remark, but I didn't know that he had ordered one just like mine except for the color.

It came in 10 days later and he drove it straight to my house to show me that he had one too. He was 9 years younger than I was and had never raced anything nor had he ever owned a car with more than 300 HP. I warned him that the light Camero and that much HP could be difficult to control when your foot was down on it.

Two weeks later we were headed to a drive in on Highway 90 on the gulf coast to meet some friends and then go to the drag strip. I was right behind him when he decided to pass the car in front of him. As he was turning into the passing lane, he got on that 375 HP 396 and it broke the rear tires loose and spun him sideways in the highway. He actually made a pretty good correction and got it straightened out but he over corrected and his new Camero jumped the curb and after throwing up sand for about 40 yards, stopped in the neutral ground hard against a 14 inch palm tree. I made the block and waited with him for the cops and the wrecker to come and then I took him home.

On the way home he said, well now I know why you said those 396 Cameros are not for everyone.

Some firearms have a manual of operation and maintenance that requires a practical level of knowledge and familiarity. The 1911 is one of them. We used to get that level of training and shooting experience in the military in boot camp. We don't get it anymore and now some people have problems because they are not as familiar with the firearm as they need to be to operate and maintain it properly. Then it becomes just like that light weight 375 HP SS 396 Camero. Although you may have one, if you don't know how to drive it, you probably aren't going to have it long.

You cannot substitute a You Tube video for practical, hands on shooting and maintenace experience. You can't learn to drive a low weight, high powered car by watching racing films. You can't become an Army Ranger by watching Rambo movies.

Those who are not willing to learn how to properly operate a 1911, or those incapable of understanding how the pistol works well enough to keep it running ought not own one for the same reason some people ought not own a low weight high powered car and some people ought not attempt to become Rambo. And that's just the plain truth.

Uh dude, I'm a retired ninja...got my gold watch from the ninja union.

Okay. Let's all cool our jets and have a little fun. Everybody that wants a 1911 ought to get one. All those who don't want one, don't buy one. I'll buy all of you boys a beer and let's start another thread so we can argue because it's hot and that's what we do in summer.

Hey Geek, where can I get one of those Ninja watches? If I wear one, will that make me a ninja too?

What about smallfry?




Dave

Sounds like operator error and lack of maintenance are the key issues.

Thanks.

DINK, you getting all this?




Dave

My jets are cool and I welcome beer.




Clark

You don't really believe that...............

Let your inner self out & express your true feelings.

We can all handle the truth, here.

After that, we'll have a beer.

MM

My 1911 works awesome FYI.


Dave

Then you are truly amongst the blessed.

MM

10-4.

I'll take it off Gunbroker.



Dave

Dang. Just when you had me convinced to sell mine.

Bob, you're drunk. That post just pegged my Innernet Intoximeter. I just calibrated it on myself after a drinking a half-dozen Newcastle Browns, so I know its working. Gonna have to ask you to try to draw a straight line using your mouse, type the alphabet backkerds beginning with O and ending with N. Then look at your screen and move your finger back and forth in front of your eyes. It would help if you upload a video of that all that and send us a link.

Sorry pal but PWI is a serious matter. Think of de chirren.

Maybe this thread has some hope to it yet.



With none of the questions answered from the OP, this is just a guess.

It might be the stainless steel slide galling with the stainless frame. That happens. More so with cast parts.

...and new parts.



Try some good lube.

What lube is best? That's worth another dozen pages here.


GFY

No his 1911 wasnt made with the super secret original blue prints that were lost in that cave in WWII that would make his 1911 run flawlessly.

Don'tcha just love the hot summer when everybody is chilled out and no one wants to argue and call names? What has always amazed me about some of these "DISCUSSIONS" is how we can have so much in common and yet get so crossed up with each other.

Some of you have maintained a sense of humor and you have made this whole thread worth reading. But sometimes, about all you can do is see the humor. I have to laugh when I see anyone say the Browning designed 45 auto is a POS and that it is unreliable.

Okay. Somebody start another argument about something else because we have worn this one out.

I reserve the right to own them and make fun of them.





Dave

OK, Glocks really suck and I hate them.

Don't get too worked up; lots is this is just TIC banter & poking.

1911 & Glock threads tend to have that in common.

MM

My wife collects Glocks. She keeps them in the same cabinet as her Rubbermaid and Tupperware.

She has no since of trigger squeeze.

Does that help?

PERFECT!!!

I wrote this in 2006 but believe most of it still applies. Ruger did resolve any issues with alloy frame durability via their titanium insert.

Good post.

I am glad someone else mentioned the Schwartz.

Garbage.


MIM. Garbage.


Cast Parts. Garbage


Empty beer cans.Garbage

Regarding Glocks. How to tell if someone is handgun saavy? When you say how much you really like Model 19's, they know you're not talking about a Glock.

Don

Exactly so Don. Bill Jordan did not use a Glock.

Yet he still had an AD.

Craziness.




Clark

Yea, Bill Jordan would not have any idea what a G19 would be.

After seeing several fella's with them he would hazard a guess.


=> Girls size 19 dresses <=

Jordan designed the M19 revolver for a reason and the G19 has that same feature in its design. With modern ammo the 9mm has narrowed the gap in stopping power. I dunno, Mr. Jordan might really like the G19 of today.

I shoot a 19 and a 19 equally well and have nothing but love for both.




Dave

Me too...

Just to keep a world class thread alive, 2 comments.

1. Having conducted thousands of pistol quals I have observed that people who do not practice, frequently fail to de-activate their safety when put on the clock, they then say schidt.

2. Who should/ should not own a Glock? Anyone who carries AIWB and does not practice should carry a Glock. Disclaimer; my son is a surgeon.

carry on


mike r

Glocks and S&W K-Frames both rock.

This is better than watchin TV

1911, it's 100 plus years old!...you would think that after all that time there WOULD be better pistol designs, but some say no. You know cars have come a long way since the Model-T.

BUT there a lot of folks that contend there is no better (1911, not Model-T)...... For me, it is the easiest handgun to shoot accurately and feels right in the hand, balances well.

The only slight negative is that it's a little heavy although this helps with control.

best post

The basics of semi-auto handgun design really haven't advanced that much since John Browning's ingenious innovations (e.g., the tilting barrel, locked breech, design). Far superior to the toggle action and direct blow back actions that were the standard before his time (striker fired actions aren't new, as even the old Luger P08 was striker fired). Not a lot, other than materials and manufacturing techniques, has advanced since then. The Glock still uses the tilting barrel/locked breech designed by John Browning. Yet look how cars have advanced, as you say, since the Model T.

I agree Jimmy. Once again, Sarge has distilled all the BS down to wisdom. Don'tcha just love it when he does that?

His last five sentences clearly state the reason most people have problems with modern produced 1911's. People are lazy, don't do their homework, and then they want to bitch about problems they have as a result of their failure to do that.

Sorta sounds a lot like the Hope and change BS that so many people also bought doesn't it? And Sarge was right about that too.

BTW, if you boys haven't visited Sarge's Roll Call and read the stuff he has posted there, you are missing out on a lot of real world experience and good, no BS information.

Thank you Jimmy & Bob. Appreciate the props.

And of course I was just funnin' you with the Internet Intoxilyzer thing

Sarge, you have earned the right to what you say and you always say it like a man. I think most of us here appreciate that approach because we sure as hell don't see if coming from any of our current political leaders.

I was struck by your comments on how to build a basic 1911. That is exactly the approach I have used since 1958 when I was 16 years old and starting to learn about how firearms work. But back then, surplus parts were plentiful and cheap and many people like me just bought them at gun shows, Army/Navy Surplus Stores, or mail order places and put together our own 1911's for about 35 or 40 bucks. (My dad retired from the Marine Corps in 1954 as the First Sargent at the Annapolous Naval Accademy where he taught hand gun instruction to the cadets, so I had a good instructor who knew what he was doing.) I used to put those guns together for 35 bucks worth of parts and sell them for 45 bucks and I thought I was in high cotton.

Today, if you get a good forged frame and slide from almost any responsible maker and go to Cylinder and Slide and put in their properly made and rockwell tested forged/machined parts, you will have a good, dependable gun for a couple hundred bucks less than one of the "FANCY NAME" pistols that seem to be all the rage today. My pet peeve is those dam usless rod guides which make take down unnecessairly difficult, but do not improve the functioning of the pistol at all.

People are always going to buy the "shiney object" and the BS advertising and then they are going to bitch about the gun rather than their lack of diligence in doing their home work. And they probably voted for Hope and Change too, so just consider the source.

Well if you are going to bring up Bill Laughridge at Cylinder and Slide, why not put some links?

Like this one http://www.cylinder-slide.com/classes/PistolsmithingClass.pdf

Or this one http://www.cylinder-slide.com/classes/1911_BYO_Class.pdf

Or the numerous others that he offers.

Well Swifty, thanks for the links, but I figure if people are interested enough they will cut and paste Cylinder and Slide from my post into any search engine and look it up for themselves. And if they are not interested enough to do that, why bother?

Today information is more available than at any other time in history, but most people are too dam lazy to use it and to tell you the truth, I just don't have any patience with those kinds of people.

Personally I can't understand why so many people want a 1911 when a Sig 220 is available

"Sarges Roll Call" about 1911s is full of unsubstantiated claims about manufactures process tolerances, contradictions, and paranioa about other processes. Also, it's pretty clear that he doesn't have a clue what exactly "quality" means or how it relates to manufacturing or claims by a manufacture. Congrats though on recommending the purchasing of Kuhnhausens book, I believe all 1911 owners can benefit from the book in that it helps them understand why thier 1911 isn working and they maybe able to get to run a bit better.

Oh SURE!!!! And that is why the OP started this thread. To quote you: He doesn't have a clue what exactly "quality" means or how it relates to manufacturing or claims by a manufacture.

And the military ordinance department Sarge mentions doesn't know anything either. They are just a bunch of dumb asses. But you know what? We didn't have the problems with 1911's back then that we have today. All of the parts in those military guns would interchange. I guess that was just luck?? It had nothing to do with manfacturing standards or quality? Try interchanging parts in some of these new GEE WHIZZ 1911's today and see how far you get with that.

I wish all of you who believe the glib Madison Avenue advertising hype splashed all over every gun magazine out there and therefore know everything would just spit it out here so we could learn it and then you wouldn't have to be correcting we dumb asses all the time.

NEWS FLASH: There were dam good 1911's around a loooong time before Kimber and the other "we make 1911's too pistols" ever even thought about making a pistol and some of you boys need to learn that.

It's only substantiated by experience, smallfry; mine. I don't expect everyone to agree with it. When someone does disagree, I count it as a difference of opinion. Simple as that.

I started building/rebuilding 1911's under the tutelage of an old Army armorer who spent some time at AMTU. He knew his stuff and had a seemingly endless supply of USGI parts. Those parts are all but dried up now. There are plenty of 1911 parts that are as good as USGI. I haven't rebuilt one for 4-5 years so I can't comment on current production. I like Wilson parts except their extractors, Ed Brown without reservation and MGW about as well. Wilson' 'factory plus' parts are what I use when I wan good, GI grade replacements.

In closing, I don't consider or represent myself to be anything other than an armorer-level mechanic.

The "military ordinance department", the various contracts and agreements the military had with mfgs', and the methods they had for incoming inspection are irrelevant to the civilian market for 1911s today. Almost all manufactures today aren't claiming thier 1911s are exact replicas of 1911s made for the U.S. gov. or that their parts are interchangeable with all other manufactures. Like I said, "Sarges" advice on buying Kuhnhausens book is literally priceless for a variety of reasons.

Sarge, I hear ya.

SF, I completly agree with that. But what pisses me off is some of these so called "modern makers" claiming their guns are superior to the originals and that they have "improved" them. That is simply not true because it is the originals that established the 1911's well deserved and hard earned reputation for reliability which is something many so called "modern 1911 pistols" do not have. What they have is advertising hype and glossy ads.

And I KNOW from painful experience, that many of todays parts do not interchange in many 1911 guns. They require hand fitting before they will work. What we have today are 1911 PATTERN guns, because they dam sho AIN'T an original Browning designed 1911 or 1911 A-1 pistol. If they were, they would work and we wouldn't have forum threads like this one.

But what the heck? It's something to talk and argue about until it cools off and hunting season get's here.

For what it's worth, if any of you boys feel inclined to build a 1911 pistol, I have not had problems with parts fitting or interchanging in the 1911 Colt built frames or slides, but I siick with the Series 70 guns because of the triggers. I was able to make a Series 80 Officers Model trigger improve a lot, but those new triggers with the firing pin block are an unnecessary aggravation, so I stay away from them and if you want a good trigger, you may want to also avoid them. And if you are afraid to carry a Series 70 type gun with a round in the chamber, cocked and locked, a 1911 ain't the pistol for you anyway. I even pin my grip safety down because I don't want to have to grip it like that to make it fire in case my shooting hand gets injured in the fight, or I have to shoot it weak (left) handed. But then, that's just me. I don't forget to take the safety off. It's an automatic thing.

I recently bought a stainless steel Taurus PT 1911 because it was cheap and a good platform to build a pistol on. It has a forged and machined frame and slide and came with good Heinie Straight Eight sights. I was a little anxious stripping all the MIM parts out (which means all of them) and replacing them with Cylinder and Slide parts, but I had no problems doing that and only the safety needed a little hand fitting, and even that didn't need much. It actually worked as a drop in, but it didn't work as smooth as I wanted, so I polished it up and that solved the problem.

I replaced the Henie rear sight with a Bomar (yeah. You have to file or machine the rear of the slide to make it fit) and installed a magazine funnel. I use that pistol for area combat matches and have no problems with it at all. It's had about 4000 rounds through it so far without a hickup of any kind while shooting my reloads and the accuracy has remained excellent using the Taurus barrel and bushing. I was surprised and pleased with that. I had expected to have to replace them also. If you can get over brand names on your pistol, you might want to try one of those. Or not. Some guys just have to have that fancy brand name. It must be nice to have money.

Catching up today on this thread.



Now we talking good stuff here.

1911forum.com has nothing over this thread.

Kudos

A friend of mine wanted to out do me on his 1911. For his first 1911 he bought a $8,000.00 Cabot new. He had many problems with that gun. We finally got it running, but it should have never left the shop like that. If you knew this friend of mine, you would say it could not have happen to a nicer fella.

He ate Crow.

A lot of FANCY 1911 owners have learned to like Crow because they have had to eat so much of it. I also have a friend who has two FANCY 1911's with the same FANCY name on both of them. That of course, means that he is twice as good. He failed to finish the last combat match after having broken BOTH of his FANCY guns and finished the match under alibi shooting my Taurus PT 1911 pistol with the modifications previously mentioned. Oh the SHAME of it!!! He'll NEVER live it down.

Actually, I feel sorry for those guys. They laid out good money and they have the right to expect it to be like the advertising hype. But they also had the responsibility of actually going to matches and seeing what works and what does not. But did they do that?? Helllllll Noooooooo. They went to a FANCY gun forum where everybody owned one and they all said their FANCY pistols were perfect. Many of those responding had probably NEVER even fired their FANCY pistol because they didn't want to ruin the "collectors" value of an unfired FANCY pistol.

I got one of those FANCY pistols on a rifle trade, but it is blue and if you shoot combat with it much, it will quickly wear the finish. That is why I went to the stainless Taurus to build a competetion pistol. Stainless pistols don't show the wear nearly as bad as blued guns do. You can completely wear off almost all of the finish on a blue gun in one season. It's no big deal. It doesn't change how the pistol shoots. Actually, that is how I spot the real pistoleros at a match before it even starts. Their blue guns look like schitt because they have shot them so much and holster worn them. So watch out for the guy with the ugly pistol.

Who made his 1911's?



Clark

So there are no quality production 1911's?

I can't carry a gun I put together.

Dink

Clark, they are Kimber's. I don't mean to pick on them, but they just AIN'T all they are cracked up to be IN MY OPINION and I could be wrong. And yes, I own a nice Kimber 45 auto pistol. It is one of the first batch made and it has the Clackamas, OR roll mark on the frame. I don't shoot it much because I have the Taurus gun and a Colt made in 1942 (the year I was born) during WWII. The Colt was apparently issued to an officer because it had not been shot much and the finish is excellent. I got it in 1962 from a guy who had a 5 gallon bucket full of Colts and cosmoline. Actually, he owed me 40 bucks and asked if I would take a pistol instead of the money and I was happy to do that. My dad looked at it after I got the cosmoline off and told me it had likely been an officers pistol or stored in a military arseonel because of the condition it is in. It had only been made 20 years when I got it and I have had it the 54 years since. All of them are steel 5 inch barreled pistols like Browning designed them to be.

Dink. I feel for you. Like Sarge says, buy a Colt made pistol. Then send it one of the 45 auto pistol smiths of your choice and have them go through it for you. I used to have Jim Clark over in Louisana do mine, but Jim is dead now and I don't know who the modern day hot rock pistol smiths are any more. Or heck, see if Sarge will do that for you. He is a lot younger than I am and can still see. I would offer to do it, but I am 74 and scheduled for cataract eye surgery later this summer. I can't see well enough to do good close work anymore. I do it for myself, but I don't want to do it for anyone else. It ain't easy getting old, but that sure as hell beats the other option.

Ditto

Especially the new models.


Blue Book of guns does not like Kimber's. Their values fall fast.

For the average fella,if you have a Kimber for Conceal carry, just don't go out and sell it. Just put it through the motions. A lot. Make sure you can count on it. Cost cutting measures tend to surface over time.

And, they don't fit my hand as well as a 1911.

I guess I'm one of the fortunate ones who have owned multiple 1911's and never "had" to tinker with one to get it to function.

I've had after-market magazine and ammo problems that caused malfunctions, but not a single one that I could attribute to the design or the manufacture. I have owned Colts and Springfields in full-size, Commander, and Officer's models.

I am a Colt factory trained armorer and have built several 1911's, including the two I currently have which are built on Springfield frames and slides.

The older 1911's, pre-CNC tooling, quite often need tuning up to become 100% reliable, and it's usually extractor and/or magazine issues that cause the problems.

The 1911 was not John Browning's final design and is not the "be-all, end-all" solution some folks claim.

It just happens to work for me and I trust my life to it.

One aspect of the thumb safety on a 1911 was, when I started shooting an AR-15, manipulation of the safety was automatic for me.

Ed

Sure there are. But you can't tell if you got a 'quality' one until you run 500 rounds of ball with no malfs except those conclusively attributed to out of spec rounds. I had a new mid 90's 1991A1 Commander that never choked in 4000 rounds rounds of ball, JHP or SWC reloads. More recently, I had a nickel rock Island GI that choked a few times when new. I discovered it had a short chamber, but RIA sent me a new, perfect barrel in 7 days flat. That one ran thousands of mixed loads and went to cop friend who left the biz for real money. He still shoots the piz outta that gun and it just chugs on like the Energizer Bunny. So it's not about buying a certain brand to get a good gun. You simply pay your money, take your chances and correct any small deficiencies you find.

The best analogy is that a 1911 is like a Briggs and Stratton one-lunger. Use good parts, put it together to factory specs and the damn thing can't help but RUN.

People I trust tell me recent production Colts are as good as they've ever been.



A couple of years with a Sig 220 started me down a trail that eventually led me away from the 1911. These days my 'Commander' is a Sig 229 in 40 caliber. It is as mechanically accurate as anything this side of a hard-fit match gun. It's grip fits me and it's SA trigger is sweet and crisp enough that 6" plates at 25 yards are no work at all, shooting one handed. The 22X Series Sigs are fantastic pistols.

The 1911 design is cool. It's just not practical.





Dave

What ain't practical is get caught somewhere when a bad guy comes in and starts shooting up the place and there you stand with no 1911 auto. Talk about not being practical? Funerals ain't practical unless they are for the bad guy.

Agreed, I've more or less gone strictly to carrying one of my P226s. The grip on a 229 is just a tad too short for me and I keep inadvertently hitting the slide release

Huh?



Dave

Colts built today are a good as they ever were for sure.


A genuine 1911 (1991A1) can be had for $799.99 List. Everything is built correctly. $22.00 Colt magazines ( C's and M's)are the industry standard in reliability. Hard to beat.

I don't know that the 1911s carried in WWII were all that great, on the whole. My dad carried and cussed them throughout the japanese island campaign. He was not a fan, and claimed that they were not reliable. He was not an avid handgunner by any means, though.

I like the 1911, and consider it my favorite centerfire pistol to shoot, bar none. I've bought new colts and old RIAs. Problems have been few and mostly related to hillbilly gunsmithing and/or bad magazines.

The 1911 is not my favorite gun to carry.

He's saying if you're unfortunate enough to get caught in that situation with a Glock, Sig, S&W, CZ or anything except a 1911 you're S.O.L.. You know, because "they all fall to hardball." But only if it's fired from a 1911.

Hot da m, these 1911 subjects are all most as fun as mini-14-AR15 rants.

Good magazines are a critical component to reliability with these pistols. I keep a few Chip McCormick Powermags around simply because those specific mags have proven to work across a broad spectrum of pistols. I also have a few of the same outfit's 'Classic' 8 round magazines. I haven't used them nearly as much as Powermags, but I've never had a problem with them either.

I've also had perfect function from Metalform blue 7 round mags with the rounded follower and welded baseplate. This is not to say there are no other good 1911 magazines out there; bit these are the only ones I'll use with a pistol slated for defense or duty carry.

Well I ain't got no 1911 auto. I guess none of my other pistols will work. WTF?

Yee haw. Don'tcha just love a good goat roping contest? And it's only mid July. I can't wait till the middle of August to see what yawl do around here. Heck Viking, I didn't know they even still made mini 14's. I figured they would have all been used for tomato stakes by now.

I have not tallied the number recently, but I've owned about 20 1911's over the years. Some I sold even though they worked fine, some didn't work well and got sent down the road. I'm down to 9 of them in various calibers and configurations.

I've tried to like Glocks & Sigs and never can warm up to them. Or I'd buy one and find flaws in it. Now the HK P30LS works very well for me, so I think it is fine as far as high cap 9mm's go, and the manual of arms is enough like a 1911 that it is easy to transition.

1911's all have their quirks as far as reliability. You need to test them for reliability with a preferred load and magazine. Once proven for a few hundred rounds, they may need cleaning every few hundred rounds, or a recoil spring change (depending on the quality of the springs) every thousand rounds or so, but within those constraints, they seldom give trouble.

Yes magazine capacity is a real issue. You simply have to ask yourself if more than 8 shots is required. They are generally easier to shoot accurately than other pistols - and yeah I know some will vehemently argue that point.

I drive a fairly new Jeep with a manual transmission; some people would call it impractical, but I think it is very practical, for my specific reasons. The 1911 still works very well, for some people.

After reading the last 4-5 pages of this thread, I can really understand now why some people think that anything read on the innanet is complete non-sense.

MM

I also caught the "Some people shouldn't own a 1911" comment.



Dave

Yeah, I did say that & it's still the one on-going truth in this litany.

Maybe I should have said, "better off not owning a 1911".......is that better?

Don't know if you belong in that category or not but you did say that you own one.

MM

Oh yea, that's actually better. There are a lot of people that just want simplicity that works. Makes sense to me why you changed your statement.

Because he feels some misconstrued it when he stated it the other way.

I own a Delta. That may not be a true 1911.

I owned a Springfield not long ago and it shot like a sumbitch.



Dave

people who reload and blow case heads, probably should stick to 1911's...

After 10 pages, we finally get it settled.
Here is what this thread says:
1) The 1911 is a POS
2) Some people should not own a POS
3) Some guy knows a friend that had a POS and he didn't like it
4) Some posters say there is a better pistol out there and they name their favorite
5) Posters who are very familiar and highly experienced with the POS are ignored
6) Posters who wouldn't recognize a POS extractor when they see it are taken seriously
7) People who know nothing about a POS post their opinions
8) Those who really know and understand the POS are left wondering WTF??
9) Opinions are like azzholes: everybody seems to have one even if it stinks

Now that we have that settled, let's get to the really important stuff like who's got the cold beer?

You screw one goat...




Clark

Bob,

I like the way you think. If you lived anywhere near me, I'd invite you to my log cabin and pour you a cold Staropramen.

Don

And if I was near, I'd gladly accept it Don. Thanks. I am born, raised and have always lived in the deep south, but one of the neatest things that happened to me is when I was being processed for my Navy discharge at the Brooklyn Naval Station in New York. There was a group of us there and our Navy service was over and we were all petty officers, so we didn't have anything to do but wait for the Yomen to process the paper work. My orders read: report to the duty officer at Naval Station Brooklyn, New York by 0600 hours 17, June, 1967 for out processing.

In the meantime, those of us waiting for out processing and final orders were free to come and go as we pleased. All we had to do was muster every morning with the master at arms and be accounted for. One of the guys waiting there was from up state New York. He and I got to talking about hunting and we went to the Chief Master at Arms and told him where we wanted to go and got permission to be gone for three days. We went up in the Catskill Mountains to his family hunting camp and I met some really good deer hunters. My family also had a hunting camp down south, so we just hit it off like we were all old friends. Until then, I had never thought of New York being anything other than New York City. WOW!! What a difference it is in upstate. There are some real Americans up there. I have never forgoten that experience and it completely changed my views about the state of New York. I always tell my southern friends that there are two New Yorks: The city and upstate.

As a matter of fact, I have owned several makes of auto pistol in .22, 9mm,.45 and 9X18 including 1911s...at one time or another and for various reasons they have ALL failed. ALL.

I don't mean continuous, chronic failure but I mean at least once in a while. I have a hard time really trusting any self loaders. This has been my experience.

Various reasons also include my probably faulty handloads, poor technique by me ,but mostly faulty magazines....i think if push came to shove I would probably rely on my Security Six and Speed Six revolvers even though I CC auto pistols because they conceal better.

It's the truth that scares 1911 owners $hitless. 90% of all 1911 conversations are about how to make it more reliable or defending the reliability of the 1911. Congrats?

Blowing case heads on a double stack guns must really be fun.

Smile, your on U tube now -fun.

<shrug> use what you like. I shoot the 1911 faster & better than other guns, and they conceal, & fit my hand better. The good ones are fine for reliability.

Got my Les Baer with nine 185 Barnes' in it and a spare CM 8 rounder laying right here beside the mouse Tex, I know that fugger will run!

My Les Baer actually jammed once, recently. I fretted & fumed over it. At some point it dawned on me that I've never cleaned it in several years, and really tightly fitted pistols need occasional cleaning

I have a Colt Gold Cup Trophy as well, one of the recent ones that has the Bomar-style rear sight. That thing eats anything, and shoots very well, too. I'm thinking Nighthawk-style night sights for it, and maybe get the frame checkered.

I fooled around recently with a Rock Island in .22 TCM, which is more or less a 9mm necked to .22. It had problems extracting, which is reported common in that caliber. I polished the chamber, then Ultra Bore Coated the chamber & feed ramp. It ran like a top thereafter, and I noticed the feedramp was much slicker in feel. I'm planning to experiment further with some of my other pistols, slicking up breech faces and feed ramps.

The Glocks and other guns frequently have nitrided (Tennifer) slides which have a hard surface. That may well be one reason for their reliability. Nitriding may not be in the cards for a 1911 slide, but polishing and UBC, is easy.

Dang, I keep my LB and AR's a little wet with Lucas gun oil, it's good stuff Tex.

I could probably leave my P226 in a damn mudhole all day, shake the water outta the barrel and empty the mag, the damn thing is reliable, and were I to go check cattle, brush hog or any other outside chores, I'd grab the 226 and a couple spare mags, stick it in a jeans watch pocket and go.

The UBC/DBC treatment is a flat out wonder.

You're obviously one of the scared schittless ones & also one of the ones who is probably better off not owning a 1911. Those conversations are only taking place with those that fall into that category.

Just for conversation, went to the range this AM with 2 POS 1911's, a POS G-19, a POS Beretta 92, a POS Match High Standard .22, & a pair of POS AR-15's, each of a different version...............shot about 1,000 rounds between 3 shooters & all the guns, & lo & behold, not a single failure with any of those POS weapons, but I was holding my breath the whole time there.

The POS 1911's, POS G-19 & the POS Beretta 92 were all feeding on handloads.

Came home, had a cold beer, & tuned in here to some more intelligent conversation on the Camp'fire about people being scared schitless about 1911's.

MM

A bit early in the day to have a beer.




Dave

So is 5 a.m.....................but not if you started at 6 p.m.

I know it's weird but I never have a "dink" with my 1911's

It was a light beer...........

Besides, after such an exceptional day with no 1911 failures, I just had to do it.

And on top of that I had to celebrate my two boys being home, one from the service, other one on vacation, being able to shoot as well.

Not often that all 3 of us can shoot together.

MM

I think that's kinda normal..............

MM

But you feel the need to defend 1911s, why? By all means spend time defending your flawless pistols, it's called a consciousness of guilt. I don't think most who have been around the block with pistols, think 1911s are even in the top 5 most reliable semi autos. Most of the posts by people who have reliable 1911s have consisted of owners lamenting the good old days of the flawless 1911, and how they aren't built that way now but "I gota 1911 that's worked flawless for years" an iffya get a good smith and dozen books you'll be ok. Talk about Stockholm syndrome with a pistol ffsake lmao. Congrats

Right........

Sweet Jesus, that's a bunch of words for 'Or just buy a Glock'

It's really amazing. You say the 1911 isn't reliable and people have a melt down, yet they themselves talk about how modern 1911s aren't reliable.

But you feel the need to defend 1911s, why? By all means spend time defending your flawless pistols, it's called a consciousness of guilt. I don't think most who have been around the block with pistols, think 1911s are even in the top 5 most reliable semi autos. Most of the posts by people who have reliable 1911s have consisted of owners lamenting the good old days of the flawless 1911, and how they aren't built that way now but "I gota 1911 that's worked flawless for years" an iffya get a good smith and dozen books you'll be ok. Talk about Stockholm syndrome with a pistol ffsake lmao. Congrats
[/quote]Or perhaps it's something else...naw, couldn't be.

I mean it couldn't be that other people honestly have a very different experience...and have so for decades.

So is any contrary opinion a consciousness of guilt? Do you see what a ridiculous statement that was.

I guess the only valid opinions are those who say the 1911 is crap.

Last response to you & it is now clearly evident that you are now most definitely & profoundly one who should never, ever own a 1911.

My 1911's (double digit numbers) don't need any defense, & yes, as a matter of fact, they are all flawless.

But I'll admit to keeping them reasonably clean & not attempting to run them through 5,000 round durability tests w/o cleaning......which neither accomplishes nor proves anything; and, yes, they were all set up correctly before a single round was ever run through them.

I have no consciousness of guilt whatsoever either.........whatever that is.

As to a Top 5 gun for reliability (according to anyone who's been around the block, whoever that might be), I probably wouldn't argue too much with that when it comes to buying samples for all the various 1911 manufacturers & comparing them against all the various (better, top tier) plastic guns.

But............

A good 1911 can easily be a Top 5 pistol if it's right (but, still, maybe not according to anyone who's been around the block).

I own various other pistols not 1911's, like various Beretta's, M&P's, H-K, & Glocks & I have no problem liking any of them & carry a
G-19 equally as often as a 1911.

What I really don't like, & can't tolerate much of, is dumbasses who know nothing about 1911's yet want to condemn all of them because of getting a hold of a schitty one or two, which are surely out there, given the multitude of different manufacturers, some of them pretty schitty, & then not having a fu^cking clue about the gun & then getting on gun forums like this & running their mouths about how bad theirs (& by default) all other 1911's are.

And I could care less about the "old" 1911's or "the good old days" either..............the oldest 1911 that I own is a mid-1970's Combat Commander.

And, yes, it needed some work to remedy the non-throated barrel & the schitty stock Colt magazines from that era that came with it...........after that, it, like all the others, has been flawless, let me repeat that for you.............flawless, with all types of ammo, even with the schitty factory Colt magazines, with reconfigured lips & with correct followers & springs.

So smallfry, I hope you have a really nice day..........maybe suck on an egg or two.

Sincerely,

MM

Lmao love the post and admissions.

Or perhaps it's something else...naw, couldn't be.

I mean it couldn't be that other people honestly have a very different experience...and have so for decades.

So is any contrary opinion a consciousness of guilt? Do you see what a ridiculous statement that was.

I guess the only valid opinions are those who say the 1911 is crap. [/quote]


No, but you don't need to defend your flawless 1911s, because some 1911s are quite a bit more reliable than others. I had one built by Nelson Ford that I felt was fairly reliable. But I sold it because I didn't think it was reliable enough and better defensive pistols were on the market. Really I think the 1911 makes an absolutly $hitty combat gun for a lot of reasons.

Never saw anyone say all 1911s were flawless, just like not all Glocks or M&Ps or anything else is flawless. Your obsession is hilarious, though.

As for the 1911 being a terrible combat pistol; show another with the track record and years of service in as many theaters as the 1911 that beats it. You've only got the last 105 years and all the wars in it to go back over...

Yup I agree none of them are flawless

Right; no pistols are flawless - none. Anyone who says otherwise is beyond a damned fool.

Rivaled only her monumental stupidity & dumbfu^ckery.............

MM

That seems reasonable.

But I typically wait until 5p. And only on weekends or vacation.




Clark

We've gone full circle.




Dave

That's never a bad plan & I admire your personal restraint.

MM

Go to an IPSC match where you'll see many properly built 1911's that go through obscene amounts of ammunition.

Back in the '90's when I competed, I shot 4,500 rounds per month for 3 years through my mostly out of the box stainless Commander. The only mods were grips, sights, and grip safety. I never touched anything functional on that gun and it took 4,500 rounds per month for 3 years without a single broken part or any failures that I can recall.

Both of my current 1911's work perfectly and they're not 40+ years old. One is about 15-16 years old and the other is 5 years old. Both have worked perfectly right out of the box; which is what I expect from any brand new pistol.

GunGeek, the fact that reliable 1911s exist isn't something I am doubting. Just talking about outta the box guns. Glad your outta the box gun worked out for ya. I can't rember a single match I've seen where someone didn't have a problem. But so what? Many here can't stand ANY criticism about the 1911. Amazing. So no criticizing the 1911.

It's not the criticizing that folks can't stand; it's the trolling.

You're on a roll today Sean. I love it when you do that.

You know that some people are intelligent enough to understand and accept that they don't know everything. Some people suspect they might not know everything. And then there are those who don't even suspect that they don't know everything. We are dealing with some of the latter types here and that is an exercise in fruitility because you are more likely to get a rational, reasoned response from a fence post.

Didn't know everyone was so sensitive.

I was being facetious.

I've been drunk for five days now.




Dave

This is serious stuff.




Dave

Yup, I am learning though. There apparently is only a certain number of posts you can respond to and you really have to watch your content.

Have you ever noticed that little dark line around the bottom of a cowboys boots? That line is there because when cows crap, and it gets rained on and cowboys walk through those places, their boots absorb a little of that crap tainted water into the leather. After awhile, that tainted water with the crap in it comes through the boots, through their socks, and through their skin and gets into the cowboys blood stream and goes to his brain. That is why some cowboys are crazy enough to ride bulls.

While that is an explanation of what makes cowboys crazy, there doesn't seem to be a logical explanation for those who believe the 1911 is a POS unless it's because their momma accidentally dropped them on their head when they were a baby.

I have plenty of reasons for considering the 1911 a POS.

Want me to name them?




Dave

There's no such thing as "the 1911," per se. It's a design pattern that's been out of patent from Colt for many decades. It's cobbled together (or carefully crafted and meticulously assembled), based loosely or strictly, on that design by dozens of companies, from parts made by dozens more companies, today. That's why it makes no sense at all to refer to "the 1911" in terms of its reliability vs something like a Glock or a Sig that's designed to be built, in house, from mass produced parts all made by the same manufacturer. Today, you can only compare a specific 1911 to one of those, not "the 1911."

An 8 shot anvil.

And that's on a good day.

Cool.



Dave

Kinda like an AR.




Dave

I've got one 1911 that I've never had even the first problem with (knock on wood). Shoots POA/POI and just keeps on rolling.

It's the one arm's length from me in the bedroom with 4 extra mags and a flashlight with it.

It's a Kimber Classic Stainless. Only things I've done to it are night sights, ambi safety, and polish the feed ramp and chamber.

Exactly.

Yep, I agree with that. Though you can summarize data from say 12 manufactures and make inferences. People this this in thier heads already. For example, the AK47 is generaly known as a reliable design regardless of the manufacture. But you are right you could have 10 new companies manufacturing Glocks that don't work worth a poo.

It's a ego thing. Guys invest a lot of money in 1911's they have to say the work. Cooper said all professional gunmen use 1911...so it must be so.

I like the 1911 and wished they worked as advertised but they won't.

They are nice to look at though.

Dink

So wuz I.

MM

How can that even be possible???????

The smallguy says that likely you're just saying that & that you likely have a case of conscienceless guilt & besides, everyone knows there's no such thing as a reliable 1911.

MM

And that conversation might well begin with the suggestion to first do no harm. Of those who can't seem to get a 1911 to be reliable, an astounding number of them begin by doing things that cause the problems. Witness Dink - taking a 1911 that was working fine with the current standard Colt design mag and putting a completely different design mag in it - to somehow make it better? Who does that with any other handgun? At least he didn't reach for the dremel....yet.

I got a Colt 1991A1 in the early 90s. At about 100 rounds the plunger tube came unstaked....this was my first 1911 platform and really p me off.....I thought this-"so much for Colt quality"...

That malfunction had nothing to do with how much knowledge anyone has about the platform.

That said, I have had some pro work done on it and have since aquired a Springfield mil-spec...still the easiest centerfire pistol to shoot well.

Raise your hands.

Who has polished the feed ramps?


Throw your tools away. Get another hobby.

I've owned several 1911s and had no problem with any of them. All reliable and very accurate. I just don't like them.

So maybe I shouldn't own a 1911.

Guess I hit the 1911 lottery. I have three and a Kimber Ultra Carry II is my EDC. After thousands of rounds with nary a hiccup or dime spent for repairs I think I might keep them.

Have you run into a lot of AR's that don't work?



Dave

No, but there are many examples out there of AKs that don't work, or break down quickly, and that's an excellent design for reliability when done right. Same for the 1911.

Glad to see Im not the only one.

I hate 1911s like Redneck hates Model 700s...

Regarding the "skewering" of 1911 aficionados, I will simply say that this is something that goes far beyond the Model 1911 platform. Over the years I have noticed that there are some individuals on the various internet forums that take a perverse pleasure in knocking or deriding certain popular firearms or cartridges. Whenever I see someone extol the virtues of a particular firearm or cartridge, I can almost guarantee that a particular poster will weigh in with a derogatory commentary in a very short time. It is simply not enough for them to promote their perceived "ideal" firearm or cartridge, but they feel compelled to drag any dissenting opinion thru the mud. On another forum one particular poster (I see he is on this forum as well) has it in for the .45 Colt cartridge. Post something good about heavy loads for the .45 Colt (especially comparing it to .44 Magnum loads), and he will be trashing you and your loads in no time. Personally, there are several firearms and cartridges that I simply don't like (but don't hate) and will not own, but I refuse to spend any bandwidth trashing them. Just MHO.

Don

The 1911 - at least in its original calibers, the .45 and .38 Super - is extremely well balanced. It was ergonomic long before anyone coined the word, with a fine blend of power, handling qualities, accuracy, and concealability. It its day, it was a mechanical masterpiece, head and shoulders better than anything else. In the trenches of WWI the army discovered it was frequently more reliable than revolvers, which tended to get mud jammed in their cylinders.

I too own other pistols, but it is still a fine tool for many tasks. And in certain cases, in may help you get off the fastest, most accurate first few shots in a dire situation.

That just proves the AK is also a POFS!




Dave

It proves that most American companies make chitty AK's. You don't see Russian, Bulgarian, or Chinese AK's go down pretty much ever.

But...
But...
But, you have a Kimber 1911.

He also has a 7x57.... my guess he likes obsolete antiquities

My RIA came with a butt ugly ramp. Not smooth at all. I bet that better than half of the 1911 haters on this forum would have attacked it with a dremel, and the majority of those would have rendered it nonfunctional. It still looks and is the same, and works just fine.

I polish my feed ramp every morning.

And sometimes at lunch.




Dave

This.

Those Russians, Chinese, and Bulgarians know WTF they're doing.




Dave

They have to, or else they go to Siberia...

A cratex point, followed by a felt point & diamond paste, followed by Dyna Bore Coat, is your huckleberry

See a lot of those guns with shiny feed ramps in the use gun departments. All brands, not just 1911's. Like you said, my guess is, that is why they are there.

That feed ramp is part of the frame in standard 1911's.Dramatic modification, but one of the first thing some people do.

Polishing a feed ramp & the throat, chamber & barrel hood tang, given the correct felt bob & polishing compound, will not alter the geometry.

Using a grinding stone is quite another story.

Unless there is something dramatically wrong with the feed ramp and/or the barrel fit to the ramp, which is fairly rare, there is never a need to change the geometry.

And then it should surely be done by someone knowledgeable in how the fit should be; lots of bubba's in the gun owners world though.

MM

He....IS....an obsolete antiquity.......(grin)

I have 8 1911s. All feed flawless ....some need some work especially the one in 40. Sw..

One thing I noticed with my Sig 938 was the breech face had been bead blasted at the same time as the slide, as had the underside of the slide where it runs on the disconnector, and the top cartridge in the mag.

Not a true 1911, nevertheless it's an example of how "modern" sometimes unimproves proven designs These surfaces must be smooth, or function will be sticky.



After I polished the affected surfaces, the little Sig ran fine, where it had been jamming.

I know you have an idea how many adults don't know jack about geometry. The concept of a (straight) line eludes many.

Seems legit.




Dave

OUTSTANDING OBSERVATION!!! And unfortunately, very true.

In order to have a rational discussion, the participants need to have a common frame of reference and understanding of certain basic principles that govern the topic of discussion. It is painfully evident that requirement was not met on this thread.

The failings and short comings of the public school system continues to be evident everywhere you look.

Hopefully the manufacture took care of the geometry.



....and don't forget Physics.

With auto's, it all about the timing of parts.

I am starting to think everyone should own at least one 1911. Kind of a know how to change a tire, oil change and spark plug thing.

I love em Viking, only troubles I've had was buying a pofs hardballer back in the late 80's early 90's, then buying a custom Briley Colt that had titanium race gun parts inside, hit the slide release on a loaded mag and that sombitch went BOOM!

Took it to my 'Smith, had all Ed Brown parts loaded inside and sold it, don't know if I could have ever trusted that gun again.

MM, anybody stupid enough to take a grinding stone to a 1911 feed ramp shouldn't own a 1911.. or any other gun for that matter.

I do not profess to be a gunsmith by any stretch of the word. However, I do learn some neat tricks from those that do have the complete right to own that title.

Trust me, they are around..........some try to "improve" the barrel throat & in doing so, screw that up, so then they think they need to "fix" the feed ramp because the barrel doesn't fit it correctly anymore.

As I said, lots of bubba's..........

MM

Yes, the breech face, & the bottom of the slide, should be smooth on any semi-auto..........that's the kind of detail that gets missed on lots of various factory guns from many manufacturers occasionally.

I don't recall seeing one bead blasted before though.

MM

Here is a good piece by John L . Marshall . He likes to be called Mr. Marshall.

At the risk of some using this info to destroy their guns, I think it is good info for the responsible members here at the fire.

http://www.sightm1911.com/?s=reliability

I've yet to encounter a single S&W 1911 that didn't work. I'm sure there could be some out there, but I've never seen one.

Good article; nothing really new on the technical side, but taken in its totality, is more or less the main reason(s) that many are better off not owning a 1911.

As to his comparison of Glocks to 1911's, that will set off a good number of the haters; I thought it was fairly well balanced in his comments, both pro & con.

MM

The 2 I have, have never hicupped...........add those to your count.

MM

Same here. Two 1911DK's with Lots of major rounds through each. A whole lot. Both are still running strong.

Some good points there, but where he said, "don't grind on the barrel ramp too much" I had to cringe.

Buy Kuhnhausen's book, and he'll tell you exactly much you can grind it

My S&W 1911 never failed regardless of ammo type. Only reason I put it up for sale was its tendency to hit me in the forehead with ejected brass.

[/quote Only reason I put it up for sale was its tendency to hit me in the forehead with ejected brass. [/quote]

I sold an expensive 1911 for that same reason. About one case out of every two magazines came right back at my eyes. Always had shooting glasses on at the range but don't wear them all day every day so couldn't risk getting a lacerated eyeball at the wrong time if I ever had to use the gun for serious business. I do shoot right handed and I'm left eye dominant so I'm sure that contributed to the problem. But still.....I have several other 1911s and none of them do that. Well....except for the Kimber which I now use as a base for the 22 conversion kit.

I had one of the Colt Defenders, and brass to the forehead was a common problem with them.

I reasoned that shortening the ejector a hair would help, delaying ejection slightly. I took a file to the range with me one day, and tried it, shoot, disassemble, file, assemble, shoot, etc - repeat as required. I found it only took a few thousandths removal from the ejector to fix the problem.

Of course, the Defender was a short slide, and slide velocity was high, which meant it fired the cases out...fast. One day a case came out, turned just right, and the case mouth hit my forehead like a cookie cutter. After I quit cussing I could feel the blood running down, so safed the pistol and went to the rangemaster.

He sure was startled when I walked into his office with a round bleeding hole in my forehead, and asked for a bandaid

The glaring omission in that article is the idea of first confirming that all parts of the gun are within spec. MontanaMan and I have gone around before over whether an in-spec 1911 needs all that fluffing, and I'll just leave it at that. But before I invest any time or money in fixing or improving anything, I want to know if it is what it was designed to be in the first place. If not - all that polishing and tweaking may accomplish little or nothing.

The moral of the story is to buy quality in the first place. Watch out carefully for used 1911's. Inspect them closely.

I have the book and many other good ones.

Same here, left eye dominant, right handed. And I also figured that had something to do with the problem (likely someone who's both right handed and right eye dominant wouldn't have had the problem), but like you say, none of my other 1911s (nor any of my semi-automatics) smack me in the forehead with brass, so it had to go.

PS I had the same analysis as you, i.e., at the range you wear safety glasses, but not on the street. A gunfight for your life is the wrong time to get hot brass in the eye.

This thread is doing a great job of proving my point.



Dave

Not really, because all of my five currently owned 1911s are reliable and don't hit me in the forehead. Just shows that, made right, they work great. You can't, however, just pick one up out of the box and be highly confident that it will be problem free, and that's been explained already as a result of the fact that there isn't any such thing as "a 1911." It's a design pattern followed loosely or closely by dozens of makers from parts made by an even higher number of parts makers. You can only compare the one that's in your hand to a Glock, not "the 1911" to a Glock. A Glock is a product made by Glock out of Glock-made parts. Same with the Walther PPQ, the Sig P320, and on down the line. These are all actual products, vs the 1911, which is a design pattern. So it's perfectly fair and reasonable to compare the Glock 19 to the Sig P320 Compact, for example, but not "the 1911" to the Glock 21, Walther PPQ 45, etc., etc..

It does look that way, eh?

Without a doubt, there are many 1911's I would not trust my life with in their current state. Some came that way from the maker. Others ended up that way afterward. Most can probably be fixed by someone who really knows the gun. Some - not within reason. That's why I am dubious about buying one used without the opportunity to disassemble, inspect, and measure.

So Dink - ya grindin' on that Ruger yet? Or you gonna sell it cheap before you bugger it (or cheaper, after)?

Hawk,

When you encounter that problem, start by swapping out to a 1911 style ejector, instead of the extended ejectors. If that doesn't work, buy the longest ejector you can get, and slowly file it back until you no longer have dents in your forehead. Also, vary your recoil spring weight. Just get one of those Wolf "calibration kits" and monkey with that.

FWIW, the pistol that always hit me in the forehead with brass was a Glock 23 I was given to carry in Mexico city. They did allow me to shoot a mag through it before I carried it, and every damn round hit me in the forehead. But it shot to point of aim, functioned perfectly and I only needed it for one day, so I could live with that.

I have read this whole thread, probably a sign of some mental problem.
I have quite a few 1911's, most are military.
All work
Observation is that they work just fine with ball ammo for which they were designed. Issues if any revolved around other than ball ammo.
I remember reading there are over 4000 separate modifications parts one can do to a 1911.
Which leads one to always wonder what somebody has done to one on the used market.
I do remember getting carried away one day, and pulling the recoil springs out of a bunch of them to check length against a new one, and replacing in a number of cases.
Something must be wrong, i even fire speer 200grjcp flying ashtrays out of some of them.
What is funny to me is a test done some years ago. Using the same 200grain H&G swc, and a couple of military 1911A1's, a norinco, a tweaked out springfield champion, and a really customized colt colt cup.
let several people fire all of them at the same target same distance.
Mostly that 200dollar norinco really held it's own.
I didn't see a whole lot of difference between the guns given their ability.
I do agree with the thought they are not for everybody, most should buy a glock or a smith M&P.

Glad to have you back. We have missed those little ZINGERS you come up with.

I'm not all that into messing with them. I've done a little of it, but generally try to avoid it

Thanks again.



Dave

OK, I think I understand your position better now. So you don't disagree with my post above, right? It can be made right and it can be made not right. Not the fault of the design.

1911 problems are similar to IBM PC problems. No one manufacturer actually makes all their parts (with the exception of Taurus). Most 1911's are made with parts from a very wide variety of subcontractors. Depending on the manufacturer those parts are often oversized, so it all comes down to the quality of assembly.

S&W seems to have a good handle on it, as well as Colt and Springfield. S&W makes extensive use of MIM parts which are dimensionally perfect, and may go a long way to explaining why they tend to work. Colt and Springfield use oversized parts from billet, forged, or investment cast, but they have people who really know what they're doing for assembly, so they tend to work well out of the box.

Thanks for the thread. Went out and bought one like this today:

rear sight is too big, you are going to scratch yourself.

I have the stainless version. It runs fine, and shoots accurately with anything I have fed it. I bought it as a target pistol, but may swap out the sights for some of Nighthawk's night sights. Maybe get the frame checkered as well.

No, you don't get his point or position........he thinks 1911's are dogshitt because, across all the manufacturers, the odds of getting one that runs well & reliably with any ammo out of the box are probably not more than 60/40.

Him & others want every one to be (Glock) perfect & use Glock as the measuring stick; they want 100% plug & play & have no feel for the aesthetics or the personality & feel of a 1911.........they don't want to have to tweak them, tune them or deal with anything short of perfection to perform, through umpteen thousands of rounds between cleanings out of the box.

It's symptomatic of the way of the world today.

So, maybe now you get his & others subtle & unspoken position.......haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love.

Just let it go & move on; there is really no rational way to deal with them.

And besides that, there's the trolling..........

After all, those opinions & preferences have no impact on those willing to deal with 1911's as they are & who are willing to & can, make them as reliable as a Glock (or M&P, or Sig, etc, etc.)

MM

There was an owner survey years ago at 1911forum.com, that sampled several hundred pistol owners. It simply asked, "did your gun malfunction in the first 200 rounds?"

Glock ran about 11%
Wilson Combat 1911's were about 12%
Les Baer 13%
Colt 1911 about 17% (which included many different models)

Who won? H&K, with about 4% failures

All I know is, I went years and years with no malfunctions in several various Colts over the years, during IPSC shooting, practice for IPSC shooting, or other endeavors. I've never forgotten that some do NOT work, mine always did, though. I also spent a LOT of time ROing matches, and saw a lot of gun problems from other shooters.

I've also seen issues with Glocks, Tanfoglios, even the odd Beretta that showed up from time to time. Crap happens with them ALL. Just about anything that is manufactured by man can crap out. None of MINE ever did, but I'm pretty good at loading ammo that works, too.
So far, though it's only had 100 rounds thru it, my new police trade-in S&W M&P is working pretty good. No malfunctions, but what would you expect out of it with ball 9mm ammo, anyway? I gave it every chance to work flawlessly, and it did.
Some folks won't do that, (give it a chance to work right), or they want it to fail, and do everything they can to make it do so. It seems like that's what the troll is after, finding flaws. I'd rather find the good points and expand on 'em.

Was that survey for 45 acp calibers.

There was a 1911 only survey by manufacturer over on the 1911 forum as well.......maybe 2-3 years ago.

MM

Nice pistol Jorge. I gave the Gold Cup a serious look before picking the Sig 1911 MAX.

Thanks, I've just always been a fan of Colts.

Very nice 'new' and older pistolas Jorge, congrats.

Jorge-

The Trophy is a custom shop gun. There will be no hiccups with that gun.

I remember that. I used to be very active there.

Nice fleet, jorge.

I'll keep it. That way when I get the urge to own one again I can just get out of the safe and shoot it till it stops. Then I remember why I don't carry one.

I do the same with SxS shotguns.

Dink

SxS's suck.



Dave

The three of those collectively won't see 1K rounds in the next five years.




Dave

Blasphemer!!!

This one worked quite well on my 1st tour. No upgrades, no feed ramp grinding/polishing, no 500 round break-in. Shot to point of aim at 10 yds with ball and performed as expected when I used it on someone.

I put two magazines thru it to function test, loaded the others I had and carried it daily on combat patrols. Too easy.

But...I wouldn't have felt sorry for myself if I had a Glock 17 instead. I like a 1911 though, because I sent so many rounds downrange using one while assigned to the Army Pistol Team.
Bob

Here is the one I mentioned - scroll down to the 2nd post for the tallies:

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=252140&highlight=200+rounds

I never had a clue how unreliable the 1911 is until I started using gun forums for entertainment.

I have a Colt in .38 Super that I got used, and don't recall ever having an issue with it.

Just bought a Kimber .45ACP and so far it has funtioned perfectly.

I have a few other pistols in the the house or family and the only finicky one was a Sig P938 and that was sorted out pretty quickly.

I must be really lucky.

I hear you Big Nate. I was recently reading various reports on the Internet about a guy in Texas driving his 2007 Toyota Tundra truck a million miles. One of the stories is here -->> http://www.trucktrend.com/features/1607-toyota-buys-victor-sheppards-million-mile-2007-tundra/

You can find more by Goggling million mile Toyota truck if you are interested.

At the bottom of one of the stories were about a hundred comments from various readers. I was amazed at how many of the comments were negative. People commented yeah, but he had to replace the timing belts. Yeah, but he had to replace the alternator. Yeah, but he had to replace the shocks.

The truck had been driven an authenticated one million miles with no failings of a major component and people were finding fault with it. Automotive engineers were amazed by it. Automotive production people were amazed by it. People who know a heck of a lot about trucks were amazed and impressed by it and Toyota bought it to study it so they could make more like it.

But the average Joe? Naaaaaw. A million miles doesn't count because the guy had to replace the alternator and the average Joe wouldn't own a truck like that. His Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Nissan/whatever is a lot better than that lousy Toyota Tundra.

These negative remarks about the 1911 are right in line with those made about the million mile Toyota Tundra. And people who think like that explains how Obama got elected twice.

A high percentage of people are just dumber than ratshit and incapable of completing basic maintenance on anything more complicated than a screwdriver. They will leave it out in the rain and spend 45 minutes writing an internet rant because it rusted, when it wouldn't have taken 45 seconds to oil it- or put it back in the toolbox.

you must not be a psychic...or a woman, but I'm sure you thought your post was relevant and semi-correct, but sorry to disappoint you.

Are you intimating that perhaps those people would be better of not owning a 1911???????????

MM

I like the way you think. A toolbox is not complete without a 1911 in it.




... or a different gun of your choice.

The Stag on your DGFM is absolutely stunning. Makes me regret buying ivory.

on reading this thread, i pulled a couple of 1911's out to dink with.
grandson was over doing cooley labor for us.
and there was the series 70, sitting in a galco holster.
and i remembered his brother.
After buying this little gem, i pulled the collet bushing out and replaced with a standard bushing.
and at the time handed it to his brother, at the time maybe 20years old, never fired a 1911 before.
He nailed six out of six pop cans set out about 10 to 15 yards.
It must not have heard that it was suppose to break.
the only real problem i personally have ever had was that 2000dollar plus tweaked gold cup.
Until i figured out the guy before me had to light a recoil spring in it for the ammo i was using..

and i just got to thinking again. another little 1943remington gem acquired by the former owner for about 20bucks through the nra. He replaced rear sight and front, with an adjustible to shoot bullseye, I think. Came with about three barrels, all WWII military.
I think he was dinking with it. Always works, but just feels a little funny. Maybe i need to dink with it.

How many rounds do you carry on you every day? That's how many rounds your pistol needs to shoot with no malfunctions every single time. The rest is warm & fuzzy margin...some require a 2,500 round warm & fuzzy, some require a 250 round warm & fuzzy. But in the entirety of humanity, I have found NO record of anyone ever shooting more than 100 rounds from a single handgun in a firefight.

Actually, as dumb and uninformed as many of their comments are, some of those people should not own ANY firearm since basic firearm mechanical operation and maintenance principles are obviously beyond their ability to comprehend.

This is the issue. Most people don't shoot 500 rounds of center fire handgun ammo a year. I shoot that in a afternoon a lot of times.

I have seen more "hard used" 1911's that look like they just came out box than any other type of pistol. Those pistols aren't being used for anything other than conversation pieces.

Kevin how many rounds you got through your new hi power?

Dink

I've only had it for a few weeks, and I really don't carry it yet, so only a couple hundred.

And Dink, I get that you shoot a lot. But you seem to think that anyone who doesn't CURRENTLY shoot as much as you do, just doesn't understand what you do about guns. I can pukkin-A guarantee you this, if you keep it up at your current levels, you'll start to catch up to me in about 10 years.

I don't shoot nearly as much as I used to because mostly I don't have to. I can get VERY high quality training at the range in under 100 rounds*...but I guess you require about 1,000 rounds per session to walk away with anything meaningful. I can still pull off an El Presidente in the mid to low 6's, and I can hit a milk jug at 150 yards off hand damn near every shot; so I'm eeking by...just barely.

But your hyperbole that you spew just doesn't match up with reality. 90% of this thread is flat rejection of your statements, yet you persist to tell us all that our experiences aren't really happening.

So either you live in some alternate dimension, have the worst freaking luck on Earth, or your statements are just WAAY overblown.

I know a thing or two about pushing handguns hard, I've been doing it for just over 30 years; how long you been doing it?

*that doesn't mean I only shoot 100 rounds each range session.

I thought i would post this. might even be a lesson here, or two, or three.
this remington was a midwar 1943 or 1944, I would have to check records.
it was acquired by a friend through a surpus program through the NRA, I think he paid 20bucks for it.
He had a few spare military barrels with it, acquired, i don't know. But He was a camp Perry shooter for quite a few years.
translated, for various reasons he knew what he was doing.
He did replace the rear sight with a (at that time) adjustible rear, and the front with a higher than the way it came. I don't know where he got the bushing, but it ain't original, gun locks up tigher than a drum. It does shoot good.
I managed to acquire a military rear for it, not installed, and would love the correct front, neither of which i intend ever to install, just to have them with the gun.
The good Lord only knows where it's been, but as they say, it shoots good.
As much as i like glocks, they have no soul compared to this.
Now you slap it in a sears 1942 military holster, with a lanyard, you got's soul.
He did modify it some to shoot some competition type things, but no modifications were made that were drastic, and i think it would work pretty good for purpose intended. Putting two or three 230 gr ball rounds into someone's chest at ten yards or so.

It's funny, but i have seen quite a few 1911's, military, from WWI until they quite making them. Military that is.
I have seen a few, that were brand new, in the kraft boxes, with a known history.
And i have known a few guys that have used them to put holes in people in nasty places say vietnam and so on.
Most of these guns were not super tight.
But that wasn't as important as the fact they went bang, bang.
nobody was splitting hairs on an eighth of an inch at 25yards.

I should also add as soon as c.m.p. starts selling the 1911's, sign me u p.

I like Ivory as well. I bought those close to twenty years ago for around twenty bucks and those Model 1927s have a unique hue to their bluing that makes them stand out rather nicely. I've had that pistol since the 80s and it flew with me during most of my career.

That sounds dumber every time you say it.

I remember when that first batch of DGFM's came in back in the late '80's, I got one too. Ended up selling it to a friend of my mom's, and he killed himself with it...waste of a very nice 1911.

Like it or not, that's the ground floor; the starting point. The point being, the absolute minimum is really not hard to achieve.

Now more reasonably you should be able to get through every training session without a malfunction; however many rounds that may be. For some that's a pistol that goes 2,000 rounds, for others much less.

You're honestly telling us that if you carried just an 8 round magazine in your gun, but your gun consistently malfunctioned the ninth time you pulled the trigger...you'd feel comfortable carrying it?

If your commute to work was 20 miles, would you buy tires that went flat after 21 consecutive miles?

Nobody applies that "logic" to any other aspect of their lives, so why would you apply it to a carry gun?

Because it validates his argument

Hahahahahahahahah, that was hilarious.

I didn't hear him say that. He's saying that a gun that requires cleaning and lubing after five hundred rounds, or it starts increasingly to fumble, isn't a handgun that you necessarily need to worry about carrying for self-defense, so long as you've never had a fumble prior to that number of rounds before a clean/lube, and you only carry it in a clean and lubed condition.

No I'm saying that's the ground floor; I'm not saying that's how I would do it. It's an exaggeration to make a point...clearly all this time you didn't get it.

Honestly I get what he's saying. In the worst case, all the gun has to do is reliably expend its payload along with whatever spares you've carrying. 2500 proving rounds is also 2500 cycles toward a parts failure. 250 of them makes a hell of a lot more sense.

No, he didn't say 500. He said "how many you carry on you every day".

Yeah, it makes perfect sense.

A car can explode on its 21st mile, as long as I only plan on driving 20 miles per day.

An airline pilot can randomly pass out after twelve hours and five minutes, as long as his shift is only twelve hours long.




An exaggeration to prove a point only works if the exaggeration is at least plausible.

You're being overly literal to score a polemical point.