Here is a picture of a 9mm in a chamber for a semi auto.
Does anything look wrong?

so I guess it would be good to shoot?

Go for it.


Just kidding. I guess you're referring to the exposed walls of the cartridge case, i.e., not supported by the chamber.

yea, that seems to be my concern
looks like too much is exposed

what do you think?

Assuming it passes the plunk test



I don't see a problem.

Many pistols leave a portion of the case unsuported in the chamber.

that's a hornady factory round in the "plunk" test, the whole box sat up that high.

so you guys would shoot it?

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/52133.jpg

testing the pic process

the fail of course....

well this sucks



back to springfield

didn't even finish the first mag of ammo in the gun.

third shot took it apart.

this is a NEW gun, a never been fired new gun.

I'm glad I had eye protection on.

Question now is back to Springfield for what? Obviously that barrel will have to be redesigned to support the case head, and that depends on whether or not the frame has to be modified to fit with it. How many rounds do you think they fired in testing and development of that gun? Based on your experience with it, I would guess at zero. I have spent the last week fixing a POS Sig, so I feel your pain.

or,
i am sure someone will correct me if i am wrong, but doesn't 9mm headspace on the case mouth, bullet might be sticking out to far and pushing the case out the back, or the brass could be too long which i doubt.

this is a Gen 4 G27 with Hornady factory 180's.

Springfield always has a plethora of accoutrements to entice buyers in their direction, then they had a deal at my LGS where they were giving some rewards to the sales people for every gun sold, naturally every customer was pushed towards an xd. I would get it fixed and sell it to some other nimrod at a loss and buy an MP or a G19 or a VP9 or a PPQ or a P-07 or a P320.

Might be useful to drop some of that ammo into another barrel for comparison's sake.

I wouldn't shoot it.........

tested the ammo in another barrel of another 9mm, a baretta 92fs, and a 9mm glock, both looked good as far as how it sat in the barrel, shot some of the ammo in each gun it worked fine.



jimmyp thanks for the picture of a 40 cal, got one of a 9mm? may be more relevant to me

fc363, what do you mean back to springfield for what?

so they can fix my gun and or get me another one that works, is what.

first mag of ammo and gun is toast. I don't buy guns to admire them, I buy them to shoot.

Wow!

What I meant by that was I would only be sending it back for a refund. What are they possibly going to be able to do to fix a firearm that is so poorly designed that it rips the rim off the first 3 shells fired in it? Are you even going to want it back after they fix it? There's no excuse they can make for foisting a firearm like that on the market. Your due a full refund, and shouldn't accept anything less.

Fit, function and safety...

Those are the reasons for the plunk test. As a competitor I would plunk every single round I fired in competition. A jam takes you out of the running at the very least.

And safety is paramount.

The rule on every range I have ever been on is that if you see a problem...stop.

If the point of the plunk test is to find a problem before it can occur, what is the point of firing rounds when you know that a problem exists?

But I'm glad you're ok...

Springfield makes a good product but some issues will slip through... but nothing has been determined here as to whether it is an issue with the gun or the ammo.

Guessing doesn't count.

I suspect the ammo is good, as I fired some of it in two other 9mm's and there were no issues.

since I didn't buy it directly from Springfield I suspect they won't give me any money back for it.

I contacted the place I bought it from and they said I needed to contact the manufacturer.

Right the barrel may be short chambered or have a short throat.

I've seen that a few times, not from Springfield. In those cases it was obvious that the gun hadn't been test fired. One didn't even have a chamber.

Springfield doesn't manufacture that pistol, and I doubt that Springfield test fires these once they get them in the country, they are likely supposed to be good to go before they leave the factory. Test firing and range testing is expensive here.

Springfield should warranty that with no problems. If you're not happy with their Customer Service report back here. They will want to take a look if only to revisit their quality control. They should be wanting to bend over backwards to make you a happy customer...that is my experience with them. Call them on Monday.

Either way I'm glad you still have all your fingers and eyeballs...

Now raise your right hand and repeat after me...

I (say your name) believe in Glock perfection...

I have an XD in 45acp and it works great. This xds in 9mm is turning into a nightmare.

There's nothing wrong with the XD...

If...and I say IF after inspection it's confirmed that there is an issue with the barrel, as I suspect is a possibility, it's a manufacturing defect, not a design failure, but without careful inspection that hasn't been determined at this point.

A part is either in spec or not...guessing doesn't count.

we will see what springfield has to say about it. I'll let you know.

Well there is definitely something wrong with his. If the headspace was that far off, it wouldn't even go into battery to begin with, and the ammo worked fine in his other guns.

Any brand of pistol, even with correct headspace might be able to fire when slightly out of battery. Generally, they shouldn't do that, but in every production run there will be a few that will.

Yes, it looks like there is an issue with his pistol and it needs to be repaired or replaced, but it's still just a guess as to what the problem is just from looking at a picture without having the gun and ammo in hand to take some measurements and find out what the problem really is to a certainty.

Springfield should take care of it.

Every manufacturer turns out guns that are less than perfect. XD's are proven to be good guns, so it's not the DESIGN but the manufacture.

Springfield verdict, send $94 for a new frame and they'll send my gun back.

that sucks big eggs.

I hope when they test fire it, it blows up.

I took pictures of stuff, so we'll see what I get back.

There's got to be more to this story than what's posted here. I can't see your springfield having a design problem but the rest are fine. We'd be hearing about XDS pistols blowing up all the time if the case separations you showed are from a design issue.

It can't be just short chambered either, or the barrel wouldn't lock into battery enough to let the pistol fire. Something else is going on...

Them wanting you to pay for the frame indicates there's more to the story as well. Were you shooting someone's gun show reloads or what?

well I can't tell you any more simply than this.

I bought a new gun, some factory loads, Hornady Zombie max, loaded a mag, and after the 3rd shot it came apart.

I couldn't believe it myself. There is no 'hidden or missing' information.

What more is there to say.

I called Springfield told them what happened, they sent a call tag for the gun, I gave them the lot number of the ammo I was using, and sent the gun in.

I get a call telling me it's $94 to fix the frame. They offered no explanation or anything.

when I get my gun back I'm taking it apart and checking the barrel with the same ammo as before. (not shooting it mind you)

I'm not done with this crap yet.

Ask Springfield to be sure to test fire it before they send it back.

If you call Hornady they might pitch in...their ammo - their problem too.

I've never owned an XDs, but I have run near 10k through a std XD. My case heads are fully supported in the chamber. Not one single factory load through the gun, and about half of what I've run through the gun has been warm to hot. They are fine guns. All I've replaced on mine is the recoil spring, three or four times. I'd not have pulled the trigger on rounds sticking out of the chamber that far. I'd put an empty, sized piece of brass in the gun, and if that much of the head was unsupported,I'd take it back to where I bought it and get a refund.

It's sad that that gun got to you like that. I can't imagine they engineered them that way, but I've seen hokey crap before. Engineers are fallible, as are QC and machining processes. I'd tell them to shove their frame fee up their ass, and to be happy I don't sue them for risking my life with a faulty product.

I don't think it's an engineering issue. I think it's a quality issue.

I already asked them about test firing it before I get it, I got an email reply back that they test fire all firearms before returning them.

got an email saying my pistol is on the way back and a copy of the invoice and what they did.

I don't have high hopes.

I suspect I'll have a gun for sale shortly.

shot 3 times repaired once at springfield, lots of mags, holster, mag holster, and carry case....

UPDATE

got my pistol back today.

new frame as I expected (since I paid for it)

same barrel same slide.

took apart, dropped a round in it to do the 'plunk' test

if you want to know what it looks like, see the first picture in the thread. It's no different.

I plan on calling tomorrow and see what they say. I'll send him a picture of the round in the barrel and see if they can or want to do anything.

I'm not expecting anything so I won't have high hopes.

anyone else have an xds in 9mm they could post a chamber picture of?

Tag

Hell... who the hell knows... ?

There is still no conclusion as to what the problem actually is, or was, or if there actually is a problem with the pistol or the ammo, or both, or neither or not...it's still just all guesswork.

Springfield says it's good to go...you still have your doubts...so...

Don't shoot it...!

Don't shoot the Hornady ammo...!

Plunk it with a different brand of ammo. Any cheap ammo is fine. See if it looks any different...then post some pictures...then...

Don't shoot it...!

Then take it to a local gunsmith who knows what he's doing for a safety inspection and a headspace check and test firing.

Tell us what he says.

no not going to shoot it.

tried 3 other types of factory ammo.

Federal 115 gr hp and a RN, forget the wt, and Winchester. All looked exactly like the picture above.

Sounds good.

Take it to a gunsmith and show him the barrel ammo fit. See what he says.

Have the gunsmith check the headspace with a gauge. You'll need to find one who's a decent machinist or has 9mm gauges.

Actually the hs may be ok but the throat may be short or tight. If so there will be markings on the bullet.

Support your local gunsmith.

Some of them may actually know what they are doing,

Let's make this easy: if the barrel locks into the slide with a live round chambered, the chamber is deep enough.

That doesn't address any other issues of course, but it does answer the comments about it being short chambered. Since you were able to shoot it once, it's a safe bet that it's not a short chamber.

unfortunately there is a shortage of good gunsmiths in my area....

One can assume that, but with pistols there are tolerances at play, and I've seen enough issues that I don't assume anything until I can check it out to my satisfaction.

I'm not saying that's the problem.

I don't know what the problem is.

I don't know if there is a problem.

Springfield says it's fixed.

What I am saying is have someone who actually knows what he's doing and can actually put his hands on the pistol, conduct a safety check and test fire it to be sure.

I know Springfield test fired it. I sent the gun to them clean, and it came back dirty.

anyone who wants to see for themselves.

It's for sale.

has a new frame and serial number and factory tested and sent out as "A OK" by Springfield.

6 mags, hard case, holster, dual mag holster, carry rug, lock with key and light pips.

Mags only loaded once by hand and emptied by hand....

Did they send the fired case? My Springfield came with the test-fired case.

nope, no fired case

I don't know if this is a valid test. But take your XD make double damn sure its unloaded. Rack the slide to cock it then pull the side back in say about 1/16" increments and see if it will drop the firing pin slightly out of battery.

spoke to the kind lady at Springfield today. I sent her the picture in the first post and asked if she would show it to their technicians to see what they had to say.

Here is the reply I received.

Dear MR........

I have had a chance to conference with my Technician about the photos you shared. He does not see anything alarming in the photos in regards to the size of the chamber or the fit of the cartridge. There should be no issues related to the function of the firearm for you or any future owner.

He believes that the reason the casings are so damaged is because the ammo is running hot.

Thank you and have a nice day!

ok, good enough for me, the gun is for sale.

I think at that point I would forward that message and the whole story to Hornady and see what they say. Do you still have the rest of the original box of ammo?

yes I have the rest of the box.

Contact Hornady, show them the pix, show them the response you got from Springfield Armory...maybe they'll pay for your "new" pistol.

Ridiculous. That much of the case is unsupported, and that's how they designed it?? I'm disgusted. It's going to keep shearing off case heads with anything approaching a full-power round. In a 380, I might be okay with that much case sticking out, but in a 9 running 35K+ psi, it's going to damage most cases beyond reloading, and shear them regularly.

I would contact Hornady and get them involved next. Then I'd call a lawyer.

What is a lawyer going to do for you?

Over $94?

Lawyer, expert witnesses....shouldn't cost more than a hundred grand to get some satisfaction and maybe, just maybe get the cost of the pistol reimbursed.

Defective/dangerous product. How do you think products get corrected when the company yawns and then charges for repairs when faced with a faulty design that's already on the market? Would you want your daughter, or one of your grandchildren firing that pistol?

In order to make any point in a lawsuit, you have to show damages. So far, we have a $94 repair bill and maybe some bruises. Maybe Blammer can claim some emotional stress 'cause he got skeered a little (for a minute there). Maybe you'd like to fund the tort claim process for part of the winnings?

First, the XD is not a defective design, second there isn't enough damages to cover the costs of a law suite.
Again what's a lawyer going to do for you. Answer nothing but cost you more money.

Has the pistol been tried with anything other than that original box of Hornady ammo? Looking at the photo of the blown cases, the cannelures on the cases look pretty ironed out. My 10mm Glock has about that much unsupported case head and I don't even get smilies with some pretty high pressure loads. (That said, I load new brass, reload it once then toss it.) I have to wonder if Springfield isn't correct about the ammo being over pressure.

call dan at hornady he took good care of my 17hmr head seprate rebuilt the bolt / new mag / an swap out unfired boxes of shells

that's an ammo problem, not a gun-design problem.

The XD series has been running millions of rounds of ammo just fine for a long time now.

Try some other type of ammo and see what it looks like. Then call Hornady.

CZ's are notorious for having chambers that won't allow all factory rounds to fully chamber. I know for a fact my Beretta will take a longer OAL round then my sons CZ P09.
Blammer have you tried an empty case to see if it seats fully? It might just be a matter of chamber/ammo incompatibility.

I guess you boys missed the earlier post I made stating I tried 3 other types of factory ammo in the chamber, they all sat the same way....

winchester ranger 127gr
winchester 115gr rn
remington 115gr rn

NEW never fired never primed never nothing case

all sat the same way.

and yet through all of this no one else has a picture of an xds 9mm with a factory round in the chamber like I have on my first post.

closest I got was a 40 cal...

Almost looks like they used a 380 reamer instead of a 9x19 reamer for that chamber!

I tried a 380, it no fit good at all

I wouldn't send them another penny! If they didn't send you a new gun I'd never buy another Springfield.....

You're obviously "winning" at life. Please continue to hand out advice, champ.

No, you don't have to "show damages" amounting to only the cash outlay for repair.

Example: you buy a new truck. You drive it home. On the way, the brakes fail, and you wreck into your front yard tree. You call up the manufacturer/dealer and describe what happened. You know the brakes failed. They look at it and tell you the brakes are fine, and charge you for repairs, then tell you to come get it. Is the problem here the expense of the thing, or is it your fear for your safety if you try to drive the truck again, or is it both, plus the manufacturer's disregard of the problem too?

You're an idiot and continue proving it.

I asked that the thread be closed.

pissing an bitching at each other, go somewhere else and do it.

Of course they "all sat the same way". How hard is it to understand that if the barrel locks up with the slide and a live round, that round has to be fully chambered? No 380 chamber, short chamber, etc.; it's chambered correctly and the ammo fits the gun.

Have you stopped to wonder how all the other XDS pistols work without blowing up? I'm not a big fan of the design, but it's pretty clear that you've got an ammo problem from your pictures of the blown cases. The fact that you fired more than one is comical, especially after making the first post showing that you were concerned about it.

Brilliant. I am aghast.

Blammer - have you talked to Hornady yet?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, we understand they all sat the same way. Did you shoot any other ammo besides the Hornady?

Unfortunately that has become typical here, rather than the exception.

well by the time the 3rd round was fired, the gun was in no condition to shoot anymore, so that pretty much precludes shooting other ammo doesn't it?