All:

Never owned a pistol with a laser. But while looking for a light to put on my Sig Sauer P229 DAK, I found a decent light that also comes with laser. Just wondering what’s everyone’s thought is on them.


Thank you and be safe.....
RAS

I can understand the sense of security they offer some people.

See dot
Put dot on bad guy
Pull trigger till bad guy dead


Full disclosure - no laser on any of my pistols now or in the past. The idea of an RMR type of sight on my Glock does intrigue me some.

Most of my experience with lasers was watching officers point over the shield at threats. It worked fairly well as one could not use the sights as one normally would. From that I did not see any purpose for me until a distant acquaintance became involved in a shooting.

He had equipped his gun with a laser and practiced with it but in a conventional manner so the laser was more an adjunct to the sights. When he was assaulted, it ended up very close as the assailant had a knife. My "buddy" was unable to break free as he had the knife arm trapped between his arm and body. My buddy drew his gun but was unable to bring it to bear as his forearm was grabbed. The laser was activated so all my buddy did was twist his wrist and walk the laser onto the assailant then pulled the trigger.

Without the laser my buddy did not think he would have come close to hitting his assailant as he really had to crank his wrist over. That has made me rethink my position on lasers but I have not made a solid determination on putting one on a handgun. I had a laser/light combo but it died and I am battling with the manufacturer regarding repair or replacement. I do have another light/laser combo on an AR but the main use has been shooting coyotes at night. Used in conjunction with the scope, I can hold the laser on the coyote out to 100 yards or so and then use the scope beyond 150.

I had on on my J for awhile but it kept "readjusting" itself. I ended up taking it off. It was really good for dryfire practice, though. BTW--it wasn't cheap junk, it was a Crimson Trace.

I have a Lasermax guide rod laser in my P220 and I like it. If you get a laser get a green one. I have a Armalaser rigger guard green laser on my S&W EZ9 and really like it.

I can see it’s value in certain circumstances. When I first started shooting handguns several years ago I purchased a very high end laser but I quickly discovered that it wasn’t going to be a replacement for mastering basic handgun skills. I felt that keeping it would only reinforce my already learned bad habits so I sold it. I may consider putting one on my home protection pistol some day.

I have them on three handguns and believe they should be on every defensive gun. They just give you an edge that you may one day need, as woodmaster81s friend learned. They are great for training. The CTs on my little LCR and some dry fire practice are what told me that I had a bobble at the end of the trigger stroke that I wasn't seeing with just the sights. Made it very easy to overcome. They also make it easier for a trainer or bystander to watch your form. To those that say they don't like them because people just rely on them instead of learning to use their sights, I say, don't be one of those people. For the vast majority of my live fire and dry fire practice they are simply turned off. The switch is very easy to flip but not so easy that I have ever flipped it by accident. They are just another tool that may turn the advantage in your favor one day. With the Crimson Trace Lasergrips the extra space and weight that they add are negligible. Why not use them?

Night stand gun?, then yes. Field gun, meh. Then you need special holster. Red vs Green....

They add bulk and weight to the average handgun throwing off the balance...

95% of the self-defense shooting are within 7 yards...learn point shooting...it's faster than looking for a dot...

I do have one Streamlight 800 lumen/green laser combination on a Glock 40/10mm but it is a house and car gun not something I would ever carry.

Laser grips don't add anything to the gun and there are no switches to flip...but if you too heavily depend on seeing a dot before you pull the trigger what happens the day the battery goes dead...Murphy strikes at the worst of times...

Bob

they are definitely slower than finding sights. The only advantage I see for non night vision scenarios would be for situations where you could get a sight picture.

I'm assuming you're talking about models that have to be activated by turning on a switch. Generally, grip-activated models are way faster than aligning sights.

that has not been my experience. I would be curious what time differences we would see on a pro timer when we do single shots from the holster. I struggled with shifting focal planes. Way more than using a red dot sight. This was with crimson trace grips on a 1911.

I think they suck.

They're good in theory but when you get all levels of people using them in all levels of light conditions you'll quickly realize that there's no substitute for night sights or a good fiber optic.

Had a red one on a .380 and it was fun to play with in dim light, but I couldn’t see it in sunlight. My edc doesn’t have one and my .45 acp range gun has an RMR that I like way more. A guy at the range next to me had a green one on his .40 and was embarrassed because it showed everyone on the line how he wiggled and flinched. I’m not going to buy another one.

I agree that no laser, whatever its configuration (rail mounted or grips) belong on a self-defense gun (except perhaps on a nightstand gun). Too hard to see in daylight, even green ones.

If you have to push a button to turn on the laser, no thanks, for all the obvious reasons. As for grip-activated models, if you happen to draw with a less-than perfect grip, you might not activate the laser. Making the switch to your iron sights takes mere mortals a second or so.

The only exception I can think of is for shooters with poor eyesight. Lasers are the last sight that some people can see. I shoot with a friend who is legally blind. He can't see any kind of sighting system, except green lasers. Even then, he's only good out to about 30 feet at most. He's got them on everything--Sig 229, Nighthawk 1911, AR's, and PCC's. For him, they are the only solution.

I have never seen anyone shoot faster with a laser vs night sights or fiber optic.

I don't know that anyone needs a laser in order to hit the torso of a guy holding onto your wrist.

I personally like them and have them on a few pistols and revolvers (all Crimson Trace) they have their advantages and in low light or darkness they are very good so for defensive situations they work - I like the heads up advantage of using them and in good conditions they are extremely fast. In brighter lighting conditions they are useless....but you still have the irons for that and the Crimson Trace don’t add any weight/balance issues - in my opinion. I’ve not had any maintenance of zero issues and I have a set on a S&W 357PD.
Like most things they have their place, I use them rarely but when I’ve needed them they have performed admirably.

PennDog

Sight picture not needed-- point laser, pull trigger

You're right, they aren't a replacement for good sights. Why do so many people believe that just because you have a laser that you wont use the sights? They are just another tool that may one day or more likely, one night swing the odds in your favor. I'll take Crimson Trace Grips on any defensive handgun and hopefully I'll never need them but if I do ..... Models on a rail below the barrel, I can see some use of them for training or maybe a nightstand gun where it is incorperated with a light. On a carry gun, having to flip a switch to activate it and adding bulk to something your trying to conceal, no thanks.

Not only am I stating that they are not a replacement, I'm saying they do a piss poor job of augmenting traditional sights.

They suck. They slow shooters down. And whatever gains can be made by their use (debatable) is negated by the fact that varying light conditions can alter that at any given time.

They suck. They'll always suck.

The only utility I've ever seen from them is in conjunction with Night Vision Goggles.

I can hit things way out there with a Beretta 92 with open sights.

But I can't hit anything with a Ruger LCP open sights. With the laser it is still only 10 ounces loaded in my shirt pocket.

Gives the bad guy a good aiming point.

Laser won’t replace practice.

Have a Crimson Trace on my Sig P938. For me, that pistol is a pocket carry for when I can't carry my EDC/1911. Figure if I have to use it, it's going to be close, fast and fatal. I always train with sights, open or RMR, but it's comforting to know the laser is their if needed.

On the other hand, my wife once tried it and even from 5 yds, she would jerk the trigger enough to miss a full size IPSC, low left, even though she could see the laser on the target a split second prior to jerking. I put my CZ75 Urban Grey Suppresosr Ready in her hands and she went back to lining up the irons and was giggling as she smacked 1/2 dozen 8" rounds over and over. for her birthday, I got her a CZ P-01 Urban Grey Suppressor Ready (aluminum framed compact) and she not only loves it but shoots it well too; with irons!

Is close and fast the right time to look for a laser dot on the target?

Assuming adequate light, lasers are easy and fast to point and shoot with.

I have no idea how this video ended up sideways, but it still illustrates how easy it is to put a laser on target. You just point the gun where you want to shoot, put the dot in place, and yank the trigger. It's as easy as falling off a log. (And to be clear, I am not arguing that lasers should be your first choice for sights on a defensive gun--the variable lighting conditions of the world are a deal breaker.)

Exactly what lasers have been used for on my pistols, shooting around shields while looking thru a viewport. I am a huge fan of white lights (lapg.con weapon light at about $50 is a steal) but have not found a laser super useful for most pistol work.

Another great use of a laser is a training tool. Put the laser on a small object and focus on breaking the trigger without disturbing the laser. It allows one to focus strictly on the trigger press without concern about sight alignment. The drill will quickly isolate problems with the trigger press, often revealing the dreaded low left impacts.

During daylight hours in direct sunlight, it is faster generally speaking to go directly to irons. In low light conditions, for example with a J Frame, the CT grips have proven to be superior.. Same with on a full size gun when moving quickly though a structure/building.

Since most people have a tendency to look at the active dynamic, IE what is causing them concern/scaring them. In other words, the threat, it is very normal for them to not see their front sight, (or any sights at all in real life (or force on force training). A red dot on the threat is very easy to pick up . Put the dot on the threat and pull the trigger. This is also why RDOs such as the RMR have become super popular on handguns . It is essentially the same concept. You do not have to look at your front sight. You look at the threat. put the dot on the threat, squeeze the trigger, and repeat as necessary.

The laser on my S&W 442 made a measurable difference in how fast I was able to make 10-ring hits on a B8 target at 5 yards, weak handed. Between .35 and .50 seconds compared to my S&W 642 which does not have a laser (but does have the front sight painted bright green).

If you think a laser makes no difference, or slows you down, I recommend setting up a drill requiring you to shoot under sub-optimal conditions (weak-handed, on the ground, etc.) and then compare your times and scores with laser and without.