Not sure what subforum to stick this question in, but what are your thoughts on "house guns" for the high-school through college-age ladies who might find themselves at home alone sometimes? Not talking gun-savvy hunter types, but more the type that gets instruction and practice fairly regularly for the purposes of defense. This might be a 90lb 14yr old or a 130lb 20 year old, as kids do grow up a fair bit in those years.

My pick in the past has included a double action, steel frame, 38 revolver,often placed near the middle of the house, but not visible, generally in a thumbsnap holster. I'm thinking of supplementing with a short-barreled SxS 20ga with extra rounds in a stock sleeve. Of course I have multiple other defense guns available for myself, but it seems simple is likely better in my house full of women. This is for a more rural setting, not an apartment scenario. And I'm thinking about realistic, high-stress situations, not fun times at the range with Dad/instructor standing right behind them and telling them what to do.

Thoughts/experiences/input?

10/22 is/was my choice.

Your picks are fine for people who can't/don't/won't train much, but it sounds like your team is more dedicated than that. People who've had good initial instruction and who train every month or so should be able to run something like a 9mm Glock with ease. Recoil is about like a steel-framed 38 plus they have almost triple the ammunition.

Once they get up to speed on the pistol, start talking about prevention, avoidance, and survival. Work through possible defense scenarios in your own home. How do you respond if someone kicks in the front door? How does that differ from when they kick in the back door? How does that change when you're in a bedroom vs. when you're in the kitchen? Focus on tactics, use of deadly force law, positive target identification, how to shoot with a handheld light, etc. Then get them off of the range and into a shoot house where they can learn how to safely pie a corner, shoot on the move, shoot in low light, etc. Honestly, one of the most important skills anyone can learn is how to safely move with a loaded weapon, yet nobody ever talks about it and nobody practices it.

Picking hardware is barely the tip of the iceberg.


Okie John

If there is a gun store with a firing range, take them to it and let them try several different ones that they themselves pick-out to shoot. that way they will get the one each prefers...IMO

Not a terrible idea. I was going to suggest a Remington Youth Model 870 20 gauge or a Ruger PCC 9mm with white light and red dot sight.

Hardware is indeed only the tip of the iceberg, as Okie John says. And I'll be sure to have lessons on the more pressing points of when/where/how firearms are employed in defense.

In our setting, we can practice a good bit at our leisure, so I will also make sure that auto handguns are familiar and understood. I've got four identical XDM 9mm pistols around the house and in vehicles. My wife understands those. Just seems to me that there is some merit in a dummy-proof revolver or break-open shotgun to keep in places where the kiddos always know they can find them.

Regarding the 10/22 option, it sounds like Ruger was trying to replicate that familiarity in their 9mm carbines they introduced a few years back. That was one of the few options on my "short list" of viable house guns. In my mind, it was pretty much that or the shotgun.

While S&W 4" stainless K frames have been my go to house handguns I now keep my S&W Shield EZ9 by the bed now and a M65 357 handy elsewhere in the house. I have a Maverick 88 20" 8 shot 12ga hand too.

A PCC carbine would be an excellent choice. High capacity, negligible recoil, cheap to practice and fun to shoot. Loaded with good ammo, it's nothing to be dismissed off hand. Cost wise, a good 870 or 500 in 20 ga. would move a lot of lead quickly. In handguns, you're XDMs would fill the bill and you already have them on hand. A good G19 would do nicely also.
Training, training, training and know your state and local laws.
Jmho

My 17 year old knows where the G19 is.
It's loaded and just needs jerked out of the holster.
For all intents and purposes it's an easier to shoot 38,
with 2 1/2-3 times the ammo.

This is where I started my wife. Saved her more than once while we were single. Very easy to learn. AR's and Glocks are not that bad either.

Small frame ( J Frame) S&W 38 Special! For the novice.....virtually infallible while under duress! memtb

Having taught the NRA Person Protection Course for over 20 years to about 500 people, close to half women, I would say your choices are excellent. Last thing I would ever throw into your situation with young women, who are not trained gunfighters, is a semi auto anything...because if it malfunctions they will fall apart...the absolute simplest gun that will go bang every time till it is empty is what they need.

This isn't going to be a gun fight...this is someone going to be breaking in to get a piece of azz and as soon as the first round goes off they will set the new USA record for the 100 yard dash... And if he stays around for another second there are five more where the first one came from....

Bob

Went thru the same process a while back. Wife ended up really liking the Sig 238. Her response was it was easier for her to handle. Keep the Sig 365 for myself and sent it to the Sig Armorer. I did not like the sights and they changed them our and polished up the internals. .

I generally find myself in agreement with RJM ‘cause he doesn’t get his panties in a twist and get over the top. Quite a few of us, myself included, tend to subscribe to bigger is better - like hunting deer in WV with a 300WM. Having said that, I find myself wondering if a good 22 mag revolver wouldn’t get the job done. The lethality of the 22s is often overlooked. And it’s a heck of a lot easier to shoot well for someone who may not spend a lot of time at the range.

for a long long time the house gun was a ruger mark I.
yeah, only a .22 but 8 or 9 rounds in a few seconds one could make a person leak.
these days its revolvers, just for simpilicity of operation.

The house people know where the revolvers are. I have my heavier equipment. Be Well, Rustyzipper.

I used 10/22's because my wife and children were so adept with them due to shooting gophers. There really wasn't a problem they couldn't quickly resolve and they are all deadly accurate with them.

I gave my a Beretta 92F Compact, but if I were to do it again I would probably get her a Glock 19. It has a simple point click interface.

I don't doubt that kids seen around the property using .22s, and carrying squirrels and chucks are a real preventative for ne'er-do-wells and burglars.

A stick in the ground spinner target in the yard is a complication they don't need or want.

How about one of the beretta carbines or Rugers.

If it's a house gun, why handicap them with a J-Frame, which is designed for comfortable all day concealed carry. In order to make it perfect for that purpose, it gives up massively in the shootability department, particularly for a novice. A K-Frame, especially with after-market grips, is far superior in the shootability department.

The revolvers we have around the house are all K-frames with rubber Hogue monogrips, as they have a shorter reach to the trigger. A 7-shot 686 would be great also, but those weren't around when we got the K-frames.

18" 20 GA. or a 410. that way it makes noise and if they miss no rounds going outside. might leave a big hole in the wall or the object intruding in the house, but the wall can be fixed.

With respect to those posts addressing the Ruger 10/22, Ruger PCC and Remington 870 Youth 20 gauge, consider a few things. The 10/22 is light and can be used one-handed if necessary. The PCC is much heavier and would require a young person to use two hands. It is not as easy to move around. The 20 gauge is about a half pound lighter than the PCC and easy to maneuver, but it has a bit of recoil for a person of small stature. Of course, that one requires two hands to cycle the action, which makes it slower. My son had no trouble with the 870 youth when he was about 12, but he was athletic and tall for his age.

With a 25 round magazine, the 10/22 would sling a lot of bullets with decent accuracy and with relative ease.

(BTW, when this pandemic thing is over, I need to send my PCC back to Ruger due to stovepipe issues. It is an early model.)

For a handgun, I would look at the S&W Shield .380 EZ loaded with something like Gold Dots.

I agree with all of that.

Know the shooter you want to arm and determine what they're best with.

Cheyenne, I've seen some petite women folk around here have success with that S&W .380 EZ.

It may not be as accurate today as it was 30 years ago when a detective friend of mine said, " If someone breaks in on you during the day they are after your stuff. If they break in at night they are after you." I was living in a large city at the time so I outfitted my Glock 19 with a 30 rnd magazine, flashlight, and night sights for the bedside table. One night about 3am a kidney stone made me think I had been stabbed. Grabbed the G19 and tried to find someone to shoot........ :-)
Since then added a 12 ga riot gun under the bed with 00 buck. The little woman likes her S&W airweight 38 snubnose. Carries in her purse and shoots it well enough.

Let the ladies in question try several different guns, and let them pick it.

I repeat, let them pick it

tell them in advance that you are going to let them choose it, but you will steer them away from guns that might be unreliable or of inadequate power.

And then...let them pick it

I would let the young lady shoot several and decide for herself what she is most comfortable with. I must have tried 5 or 6 38/357 revolvers with my wife. Familiarity was great but the heavy DA pull, poor hand strength combination was not conducive to accuracy, as in hitting the target rather close. Right now she is shooting a Ruger LC380, its not a glamorous gun, but the slide spring is weak enough for her to charge it herself, she hits at 21 feet with it. When the 'Rona is dissipated some I want to try her with the SW shield 380 EZ. That is my experience, again everyone is different and may want a long gun, shot gun, 22 rifle, 22 pistol, or revolver. You don't know until they try a few.

Model 60, .38 Special, DAO, 3 inch barrel

Designed for concealed carry, thus gives up a great deal in the realm of shootability. Why would someone handicap themselves that way, needlessly?

I'm always amazed by the amount of men that insist their wives and daughters are deadly with DA, short barreled, J or K frames.

Either that, or, when it's true, you can measure shot splits with a sundial. Use an electric target return to get the target to charge straight at them from 21 feet and they are good for one shot that goes wild. The good ones can get two shots off (and they stop when the target reaches them).

Yea.

I'm sure there are some proficient women out there with DA snub nosed revolvers.

I've just never met one.

My wife is pretty good with a revolver, but she is slow. (She married me.)

For HD.....
Revolver: S&W R8
Pistol: Glock 19 or similar gun available from several manufacturers.

Women don't have to be trained gunfighters to find the motivation and discipline to manage a semi-auto under stress. Plenty of folks shoot IDPA to get their feet on the ground and do just fine. I think that the OP has probably got this team at least halfway down that particular road.


I'd rather plan for the worst case: semi-rural area (per the OP), a home-invasion style event, intruders are multiple gang members who don't flinch at gunfire and who stick around even if they have to return fire to make it happen. Unless we're talking center hits with a 12-gauge, then you'll want the ability to make multiple hits per assailant without a reload.

Six rounds later, you're still a long way from the finish line.


Okie John

AR15 or 22lr. My 10 yo shoots an AR15 but handles a 22lr 10x better. At 14yo - AR15 for sure.

No pistols for HD.

Keep it simple and keep it loaded. Revolver in 38 special and 20 gauge semi-auto loaded with buck shot. Point and shoot. Will suffice for any home invader situation.

Point and shoot with a .38 special revolver?

I'd love to see that.

He means there's no slide to rack, magazines to mess with, or safeties to unlatch.

Oh.

I agree with DeFlave above.
NEVER grab a handgun to fight with if you can have a rifle instead.


A 10/22 is actually an excellent defensive weapon for homes because of it's good accuracy, recoil-less use, quite muzzle blast indoors and good reliability as well as the fact that someone can be trained to use it very well in just a short time. But any long arm if FAR easier to use well then a handgun for even the most expert hand-gunners let alone the average young lady. a few years back I could do a lot of "showing off' with my handguns and it was common for me to shoot some birds in flight with them. I am still not bad despite my eyes getting old. So I can say in 100% honesty I was quite good at my job when I did those jobs, but at NO TIME IN MY LIFE, as a US Marine, as a military adviser with DOD, or as a body guard would I EVER use a handgun if a rifle was just as fast to grab, and with me I am not speaking from a standpoint of mere theory.

Handguns are to carry. If you are not wearing it you need to go get it at the time the alarm goes off in your mind and getting a rifle (or shotgun) is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better in such a situation then a handgun

Remember long arms are a LOT easier to make hits with, and every shot you fire is going to hit.......................something.

You (she) will be responsible for all shots fired. Hitting is the key. A hit in the body of a bad guy even with with a 243 or 25-06 deer rifle is going to be a lot less dangerous to someone down range after it exits the enemy then a total miss (usually several) with a 9mm that goes wide and is under full power when it strikes. So the argument of "over penetration" is far more an issue of proper training .............to fire when you are aiming correctly and ending the contest in 1 shot. For that a rifle is a LOT better tool.

It's also much safer in the legal actions that will follow for 2 reasons. #1 it's a common rifle used by millions for hunting so no stigma is attached to many of them and #2 ending the fight by making the 1st shot means you don't have the blazing gunfight that is not only possible with handguns but more common then not.

Going through this same thought process for my youngest daughter. Shes 24 and knows her way around guns in general, shes shot most of the guns in my safe. I'm going to buy her a birthday present (July) and am leaning hard toward a smaller Glock in 380. Shes only 5ft 2 and isnt petite but is pretty small. She manages a horse farm here and is no stranger to hard work.

The incident that threw me over the edge happened a couple weeks ago. The owners were on vacation for a week. She goes in every day at 630 AM and is usually the first one there. She called me on a Weds and said someone was apparently setup house in the hay loft of one of their barns - sleeping bag, water bottles, food items. My first thought went to a homeless person. I told here to call the owners, inform them of the situation, and call the police. She did all the above and discovered it was one of the workers hanging out for the weekend. Turned out all good but reinforced my thought that every women needs to carry. I dont care how tough a women is, they aren't going to win with the average dude. A pistol evens up the game.

A couple points I'd like to add.

I don't find the 10/22 to be horribly intuitive to operate. If you don't agree with this, hand one to a 30 year old dude and tell them to lock the bolt to the rear, drop the mag, and activate the safety prior to completing these things. It may take a while.

This was never an issue for me because once my kids came of shooting age I had them sit on the couch and lock and unlock the bolt and fugk with the safety while they watched TV. No I'm not a psycho. I just found that familiarity with the rifles while we were on gopher fields translated into our enjoying our time together that much more. In this regard, the 10/22 has worked. For me.

Handguns and UBER light carbines like the 10/22 have a huge advantage due to their weight. If you have to find your way through and out of a building, M4's and shotguns can fatigue the uninitiated very, very quickly.

TRH, for me that isn't a handicap at all my M60 DAO has the 1 7/8" barrel when it was new it was used by the NYSP and is marked that way. They traded them off for SW semi auto 9's. Simply one of the finest DA s shooters I've ever shot,point and pull you bet. Carry piece and on the night stand right next to the AR and 870. MB

I'm with you in being a fan of the S&W J-Frames, but you and I are in a different category than the people we're talking about.

Damn it trh your right. A Glock or cock is what most women need and that is as far as I'll take that statement. MB

odd how women cannot manage a semi auto pistol but have no problem with an automobile, BLT sammich or Nina pressure cooker. Of course revolvers are easier to understand, easier to load, much more reliable...feeling confident in knowing how things work, but reliably missing 6 shots and then all you have left is the firm knowledge that you know how the gun works. I don't think this knowledge will be of any help towards a criminal bent on bodily harm. Its just is not as effective as shooting the criminal a few times until they decide they don't want to play anymore..I personally would fear my wife with a glock 19 in her hand a hell of a lot more than with a snub nosed 38.

How about a slick K-Frame .38? Not much range work required to become competent with that at room distances. But a J-Frame is an expert's gun.

Pretty much right there too, a set grips to fit HER hands and lots a practice can make one a force to be reckoned with. My favorite is a M 13 roundbutt with the 3" HB, damn gun is hot piece of action waiting to happen. MB

The FBI configured Model 13 (like you describe) was my daily carry for many years.

I'd recommend pepper spray and a handgun. Just try and make sure it's secured so a bad guy wouldn't get access to it while you/she was away and have it if you/she were to come home....

If it doesn’t have to be a handgun let them try a Ruger PC9 carbine. They’re a hoot to shoot and if they enjoy shooting it, they’ll be more comfortable with operating it.

I agree with the couch time and similar tinkering to build familiarity. Just like a beginning shooter benefits from a scoped rifle with no bolt (or air rifle) to practice field positions around the house and yard. Good way to develop habits.