First - yes, I know "shoot them all and see what your gun likes" - that's not the answer to my question. It's not about what my gun likes.

Question - what's the actual difference between the different offerings from premium 22LR ammo companies?

Eley Tenex, Match, Team, Club for example
Lapua Center-X, Midas+, Pistol King for example

The top 2 (from what I can tell) seem to have a lot of variations available to shooters but I can't tell what that variation actually is - one to another.

Are there actual structural differences in the rounds (powder/bullet) or is it simply a cascading level of acceptable deviation in headspace/priming compound(case weight) across the offerings?

Hi Teal

I can't find it now, but years ago Eley (I'm pretty sure it was) had an explanation on their website, more (perhaps way more!) than a decade ago (I think!).

With the way many factories have been increasingly automated with lots of robots, this info may no longer apply.

I can't remember all of the difference between the many kinds of ammo they offer, but I think I remember one because it surprised me a bit.

Apparently spreading the primer compound (subsequently spun into the rims?) is a major contributor to accuracy, and Eley monitors the workers who do this.

The most consistent employees are assigned to the highest quality ammo lines --> most uniform ammo.

/John

That's interesting - I can see that. Wonder how they empirically measure those differences, just from a curiosity perspective. Especially at volume they must put out. I'll go bang around Eley's site to see if I can find what you mention. Thank you.

hi again Teal

I hope I'm not sending you on a wild goose chase!

I am certain that it was an ammo manufacturer that offered MANY lines of ammo, but I'm only moderately sure that it was Eley.

I'm getting old and forgetful, ya' know! :-)

/John
PS: I just visited Eley's website LINK to ELEY UK (the UK site, there may be others) , and they have been making ammo since 1828! LINK to ELEY History
With that long history, maybe they have a historian or archivist employed who could answer this question...

I could be completely wrong about this, but I recall hearing that among the grades of match ammo of a particular manufacturer, e.g. Eley, it is all basically the same, but it is graded into different labels/types based on statistical testing of production lots. Less variation = higher grades, etc.

Given the volume produced - I think it would almost have to be this.

You make a pile and sort vs making specific runs.

That would be lapua. From my understanding…

Lapua takes a particular lot of ammo and shoots the lot through a bunch of different rifles of different makes, let’s say 10. In order for the ammo to be called x act, it needs to meet their accuracy standard in every rifle. In order for it to go into a midas + box it needs to meet their accuracy standards in 7/10 rifles. Center X needs to meet their standard in 5/10… and so on.

The Tenex bullet is different than the rest of their line. It was carefully engineered/profiled to precisely fit what we now have come to call match chambers, which differ from standard chambers having sloppier tolerances meant to accommodate any and all cartridges made anywhere in the world. The bullet also has a special nose profile to help with stability in flight, or so they say.

Premo ammo is certainly no guarantee for best accuracy out of any random rifle. What it does offer though is a much much better chance at best accuracy.

You gotta bear in mind that the fella who seeks vindication on the paper target against fellow competitors is willing to spend a lot more money to squeeze those few extra thousandths of an inch smaller group sizes or a couple extra points on a score target because that often means the difference between 1st place and also-ran. Whether that's also justified in the squirrel woods is open to debate.

Didn't Remington buy out Eley? Could definitely be a "wild goose chase".. Good info from all of you guys. I have not shot any of my 22lr Rifles in over a year. I need to get out and make some holes with them. Hopefully ragged ones... I still need to test some Wolf match and old Federal gold medal match ammo..

I'm still pissed at Federal for discontinuing their old Gold Medal match ammo many years ago now, especially the the Olympic GMM stuff. It always shot right along with Tenex and R-50 (I don't think really high grade Lapua stuff was around back then, I don't remember). I have a few bricks of that old Federal stuff on the shelf, saved for "special occasions", and even though the old lube on them is getting a bit funky it still shoots as well as it ever did.

I'm sitting on 100 bucks worth of Eley - 3 boxes match, 3 boxes tenex to test out the Bergara.

Couldn't find Lapua anywhere - except Pistol stuff but I'm going to see if this Eley is all that and a bag of chips.

I wonder - how many rounds are produced in each "lot".

Not to hijack the thread, but on a (sort of) related note: recently I had my 617 S&W (10 shot) at the range while doing some other stuff. I had 3 types of CCI .22 LR with me. I first shot a rested group of 10 at 25 yards from the box of "Standard Velocity .22 LR Lead Round Nose Target 40 grain 1070 fps" on the front of the box and on the side indicated "same Velocity as Green Tag" and "Consistent Performance." They shot into about an inch and a half with me not taking a great deal of care. Next up, I shot 10 rounds of Mini-Mag 36 grain HP's with about the same amount of care and the group was about 3 inches. Finally, I shot a 10 shot group of Stingers (32 grain HP promising 1640 fps, no doubt from a rifle) and the Stingers shot as well as the Standard Velocity stuff.

Killough Shooting Sports (a major supplier, if not the major supplier, of Tenex) offers a service whereby they'll sell you ammo from specific lot numbers, and update the lots and quantities thereof on their website. (Small wonder, as I think Eley took them over and use them as their springboard into the American market.) Coincidentally they offer the best prices for Tenex bar none. In the past I've grabbed a couple boxes from a lot which they had a ton of, tested it quick and when it performed to my expectations real quick-like-a-bunny I went back and ordered quantities of that same lot. I'll continue to do so.

Yeah, I'm a Tenex guy. Other brands turn in great performance in my target rifles too, but I've had the most consistent luck with Tenex so that's my go-to. (The guys I shoot against in ASSRA competition are a tough bunch, and unless I can squeeze out 1/2" groups at 100 yards on both group and score targets, off the bench, I'm a runner-up. Tenex and a BSA Martini International with 20x scope, and a bunch of wind flags helps me do it.)

Of course, at $19/50 (pretty much KSS's current rate) I sure as hell don't fritter it away on casual shooting.

Yeah - I paid 18.40/50 from Creedmoor Sports for Tenex.

I'll look at Killough tho - I got these as the first rounds down the barrel - just to see and if they're good, then I'll get after laying in a quantity.

Anecdotally, I was in a LGS last weekend and wandered through their rimfire ammo aisle. Holy crap! Their shelves were sagging from all the .22 ammo. Everything from the cheapest el-cheapo to the most expensive premo stuff. But prices were astonishing too - and maybe that's why it was all still on the shelves. Example: Tenex at $32.50/50. Nope, ain't happening.

Yeah, I paid $50 for the brick last summer. I really hate to open the box. It looks like good stuff though.. Made in '92, if I remember right..

The owner of Accurate Reloading did an extensive test and review of virtually every brand of 22 ammo, in both rifles and handguns , and you can find it there.

However the takeaway I noticed was that while the most expensive ammo may be the most consistent, it may not shoot any better than cheap ammo in your rifle

I had about a brick of the old Federal Gold Medal Match also and didn't realize what a treasure I had.. I guess I assumed I could just go down and buy some more when it was gone so I shot it up at targets, squirrels, etc... until it was gone and it was very, very good ammo. This is about the time I started to get into decent target rifles and my 52s really liked the stuff a lot. It wasn't until it was almost gone that I realized it wasn't available any more... I was really disappointed as I haven't found anything that shot as well in a couple rifles since then...

Ain't the fickle world of .22's great?!

Yes, that's for sure! I think Paul39 has it right. Companies probably have various lots of powder produced and graded, and then loaded into one of their product lines.

Ammunition companies produce little cartridges that are more sensitive to small variations in propellants, etc.

The rifle companies produce either regular chambers, Bentz chambers or match chambers.

It's a rat's nest.

Below is an excerpt from CZ-USA.com. I think the same can be said of any company's products.

While the barrels of both the CZ varmint and sporter weight models are of the same high quality, the varmint being the heavier and stiffer of the two is more forgiving over a wider range of loads than the thinner barreled sporter weight models.

For example, given a selection of 10 different .22LR loads from various manufacturers, the varmint weight barrel will shoot to the best accuracy potential with 4 of the loads and it shoots another 3 of the loads very well.

In general, the sporter weight barrel will be more sensitive to differences between the loads. Typically out of the same 10 different loads tested with the varmint weight barrel, it will only shoot at its best with 2 of the loads, while another 3 or 4 will shoot acceptably.

Typically there will be a few loads each individual rifle really likes and a few the rifle really doesn’t like, with the rest falling somewhere in the middle. By starting with a quality action and premium barrel, the odds are stacked in your favor, making the search for the best accuracy combination easier.

https://www.cz-usa.com/accuracy-comparisons-between-models/

Best I've ever shot,although I have selected lot's of black box and team that are pretty close.

One of the most crucial part in the making of a 22 rf, is the process of evenly spreading the primer material around the rim of the case heads. I don't know abut now, but years ago, Federal perfected that and their match brass was used by the U.S.Olympic team for quit a few years. I was teaching hand gun courses then and that is what they sent me along with a brick of their match ammo

I believe that was their UM marked stuff. Very expensive back then.

They copied the dimple off the Russian's.It wasn't quite a good idea as people thought.Shot thousands of UM1 &900B ,not as good as the Russian Olimp-R.They made a big deal of the Federal stuff because one female shooter won a medal with it. Came and went.

While you might find cheap stuff that likes your gun, will that play out from lot to lot? I suspect lot to lot variation is less pronounced with the more expensive stuff.

Getting off topic a bit, but I have a few boxes of UM1 and 900 in my DO NOT SHOOT box. I bought this in the 1990s. I paid $21.95 per box for UM1 to test it, but never got around to it. This is in Canuck bucks, but the exchange rate was about 1.05 at the time. Our dollars were close to being par. The Federal 900 was a paltry $9.49 at the time.

For more interesting reading about the Federal GM stuff, you can visit here. https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/eight-federal-ultramatch-lots-tested.1130917/

WiTF would a guy have a 'do not shoot box'? Weird......

Collectibles.

Interesting read. I have only taken my B14R out a few times but it seems to prefer a couple of the various SK loads I tried. That below on its first trip out. The rifle has since confirmed that SK Semi-Auto and Rifle Match shoot equally well. Five shots groups at 50 yards. For the money SK is pretty hard to beat depending upon what you plan to do with your rifle. I get the SK Semi-Auto at my LGS for $70/brick. Rifle Match $85/brick.

Yeah, I suppose that’s one take on it.

As I related elsewhere, not long ago I was shooting some SK RM in my CZ 457 with the now-departed MTR stock and barrel. Finished one box and started in on another. POI dropped almost an inch, and accuracy fell off as well. WT actual F!?! I thought a moment and checked the boxes, and you guessed it, different lot. This stuff begins to seem like somewhat less than fun at times. Anyway, my new .22 focus is going to be on becoming a better shot, more than trying to squeeze that last frog hair of precision from ammo I have no control over. My 457 is now a Premier model wearing a red dot for offhand shooting at targets and steel to 100 and I just replaced the 10x scope on my Ruger CSC with a 6, for the same stuff plus some plates out to as far as I can hit them; that yet to be determined. So far, I’ve found the little “dinks” floating back to me very satisfying and the misses nowhere nearly as annoying as the uncalled flyers that plague group-shooting with mid-grade ammo like Club and RM. Maybe the emphasis on just hitting from my clays shooting has rubbed off on my notions about rifle shooting.

I’m with Don on this one. I’m too old to collect ammo. I just spent about a year, more or less, disposing of stuff some old man had laying about, including “collectibles”. I’m checking out leaving as little for someone else to deal with as possible, especially ammo, and the stuff I have for making it.

Air Quality Alert, for gunsmoke!

I have a number of collectibles. It’s not about what others do or want. And it is something I enjoy. Collectibles are for passing down to my grandkids. They are investments and history both.

For example, I have a Finnish Lotta rifle that I paid $60 for. It’s worth about $900 and climbing.

It’s like collecting stamps, baseball cards or bobbleheads. You do what pleases you. I am not looking for approval.

Yep, it's all good. I was a collector of vintage .22 ammo, full boxes only, for about 40 years. Seemed like a fun/good idea at the time, and the collection grew until I was overrun with display cases and shelves devoted to the stuff, and then packed in boxes in a closet. I woke up to the absurdity of it and sold it all - to another collector who just had to have more. I could've realized a much higher profit had I piecemealed it out but that task was just too daunting (just going through it all and figuring current value was a Royal PIA) so I made him a flat offer that guaranteed me a handsome return on the investment, and he took it. Good riddance I say.

Now, even though I still have a lot of bricks and single boxes of vintage .22 ammo on the shelf (probably 15-20,000 rounds worth) it's gonna get shot away - I don't give a rat's patoot about collectability anymore. Most of it is run-of-the-mill average stuff accumulated over 60 years now of actively shooting .22's. You know, grabbing bricks at the store, shooting some of it, and getting more next time at the store. Current fascination is mainly precision target work but plinkfests happen often enough that hopefully I'll work through that pile of ammo before I hang up my spurs. Which reminds me Pappy, we need to get together and waste some ammo sometime soon!

I collect different things. When I lived in Germany, I collected beer glasses and steins. 3/4s of them were mailed home as I got them.

Way back, if 500 count boxes of Winchester or Federal rimfire went on special, I would buy two or three. Most of it didn’t perform, so I shot it up with the kids or gave it to my gun club.

I was never a Remington fan. Their rimfire stuff always seemed like an afterthought. Not well made.

Or eat some crabcakes!

I am not looking for approval.

Never thought that. Everybody’s entitled to their notions. Mine have been reshaped a bit by recent experience. Whatever winds your clock….

I agree with Paul39. I think it is the testing they do with the various lots of powder and the QC for priming and brass. It is a higher standard for the most expensive lines, regardless of company. Better consistency comes with this.

To get that higher standard, you have to pay more.

Eley has, or had, a facility where target shooters could test various lots of ammo to see which their rifle preferred. Then they can order a bunch of that lot. Wayne Van Zwoll wrote about that experience IIRC.

Killough allows you to specify the lot number of their better grade ammo. Was surprised to see that the $10 benchrest auto stuff is included in that. They also provide the info on the lube used on the various varieties. Might be possible to choose a lower-grade practice ammo with the same lube as one’s match stuff to avoid having to re-season your bore.

Many years ago I saw few reasons to try this or that brand to find what worked in a particular .22. More recently, with but 2 exceptions, I find no US manufactured ammo that I will hunt with. That would be early production WW Power Point and CCI CB Shorts.

The exercise is driven by precision, not spraying and praying. I tried some Eley and was unimpressed. Stumbled across some Wolf MT and smiled a LOT. All of my .22s SMILED a LOT. Then it occurred that I couldn't find any, but discovered that MT and SK Standard + were the same thing, and now I get to whack critters with a single shot. That's cool, 'cause several of my .22s are single shots.

I don't collect ammo, I shoot it. Doesn't mean I don't have a functional inventory, I just don't collect it. I'm not compelled to shoot one hole 100 yard groups with .22 RFs, but one shot in the brain does the trick.

I bought a couple bricks of Aguila Rifle Match some years ago, the gold and black box stuff, and it was awesome stuff in my 453, along with RWS SSHP. Later lots of both have been less thrilling. Anything that will put five in 3/4” at 50 is good enough for me for small game. Most opportunities are much closer than that.

I have some early WW PP, and they do very well.

What groups are you guys seeing with CCI SV and MM ?

WW PP from my 10/22





CCI CB Shorts: Started with a clean barrel and zeroed at 25 yds. 150+ hogs hate it.


Wolf MT @ 50 yds. I was sober that day.


Wolf Vs. CCI SV

This stuff was Eley primed many year's ago and shot pretty well.

Digital Dan, what rifle & scope are you using to get those great groups?

The 10/22 has a refurbished El Paso Weaver K2.5x. The other LR loads were shot with a Contender Carbine with a Leupy compact 2.5x. CB shorts were shot with a Contender Carbine with a Millett red dot sight. Both Contenders have match barrels.

Good stuff.

Getting a Contender barrel is on my list for this year. I will order it from MGM.

For the 'do not shoot' box, too?

Maybe.

Older I get the more I appreciate the Contenders. Have two T/C barrels (.22 short match & .30-30) and two from Bullberry (.22 LR Match and .30 Sneezer). They all shoot very well.

They sure do! I only have MGM barrels, but you won't hear me complain.