Wondering what you guys experience has been, in accuracy and killing power.

I recall my brother using CCI Shorts in his BL22 for routinely collecting his limit of tree squirrels.

Also, any 'issues' i.e. the 38 special in a 357 mag effect, that is eroding the chamber in a L.R. chamber?

Thanks for any input on ammo preferences.

Clean the chamber out after use, and you're fine.

CCI .22 CB Shorts remain one of my all-time favorites for squirrels.

65BR I have heard rumors that if you shoot shorts in a match chamber the shorts will cause a "ring" to form in the chamber. This is supposed to really hurt accuracy with 22LR ammo.

My dad has a 22 with a match chamber that he shoots alot of CB's in. He shoots them around his house all the time. So far we have not noticed any difference in accuracy with regular 22 LR's.

I have no idea if the "ring" theory is true so take it for what its worth.

Dink

VA, is that a solid or HP? Thanks.

My gosh, I must have shot a million 22shorts through my old western field 22 rifle as a kid. I dont remember any ill effects from it at all.

Killed a lot of tree squirrels with them when I couldn't afford Long Rifles. Most of the shots I'd get where I used to hunt in Virginia weren't usually more than about 35 yards away or closer. Tried for head shots. Shorts worked good for those distances.

Dang tree rats' have been eating the new apples in my front yard tree and moving to other things in the garden. Over the last 3 - 4 months, I've taken 13 from the front door. Not a neighbor or passer by has heard the shots. I love the CCI CB caps for squirrel. Umm almost forgot. Marlin 39A Golden Mountie, feeds and shoots fine.

Been using the super colibri here.... shorter shots, about the power of a mid range pellet gun.. but I have close range shots... just killed a cottonmouth with one last week one night, about 10 feet or so...

20 something grain bullet pushed by the primer only....

Before that I shot a lot of CCI CB caps....

65BR;

Solids.

Winchester (IIRC, may have been Remington) USED to have a CB Short HP that was just a flat killer all out proportion to size/power, but those are LONG gone. CCI solids are perfect for head shots on squirrels, rabbits, and they've been known to sluice larger prey, too.... on occasion.

CCI .22 CB Shorts

I also am amazed by the killing power of these little slugs.

The neat thing about them is you can watch the bullet fly towards toward the unsuspecting target....

I shot quite a few cottontail wabbits in my youth with .22 Short Hollow Points out of both a rifle and a revolver. They worked really well, and I preferred them to Long Rifles. I think CCI still makes Short HP's.

CCI short hollow points for me in a couple of autoloaders....very effective.

i keep a marlin bolt gun sighted for CB's.

the short HP's are pretty effective out to 50yards...i have tried the short solids but they didnt kill as well.... if i dont have a headshot on a squirrel i plug'em anyway, and on body shots the solids didnt always drop them immediately.

Been killing woodchucks in the back yard with CCI CB shorts for years. Fired from inside the house out an open window, hardly any sound outside at all.

So quiet, the neighbor girl once thought I was killing them with an air rifle and wanted "one like I had". ;O)

Great feedback guys thanks, I think the slower speed perhaps transmits the energy better than say a faster LR solid that zips thru. My brother felt the quieter report helped his bag size on squirrels, perhaps the louder LRs made other hide.

My main rifle has been a 77/22 w/chopped 17" reworked Butler Creek 10/22 bull bbl that shoots little groups, but I run LRs only. I have plans to get a BL22 in the near future, using my brothers, it is just a fun gun to shoot and I may just take it hunting to increase the challenge, using irons.

Thanks again.

The softer report is very nice. I've had shots miss the target with the CBs, and the bushytail not move at all, giving MORE than ample opportunity to correct the situation on the second round.

Try to find a used single-shot bolt action .22LR orphaned in a pawn shop or similar. Clean it up (likely the first time in it's life), and see if it won't perform well. The older ones (Winchesters, Remingtons, Springfields, etc.) with a bit longer barrels give great sight radii, and often prove very quiet when using CBs.

I don't have a whole lot of experience with .22 shorts. About the time I started shooting i the late 1970s, .22 Shorts were already pretty much the same price as 22 LRs, so I never really shot them much.

I have had several old timers in MO and Arkansas tell me the best killing squirrel loads inside 50 yards are .22 Short Hollow points in a rifle designed to fire shorts only(due to the twist rate in the barrel).

The longer "dwell time" of the slug in the animal at the lower sppeds as well as the lower section density seems to allow them to transmit more of there energy into the animal rahter than just Zipping through.

I saw this 25 years ago when I was trying out some RWS Subsonic Hollow point 22 LRs load on Praire Dogs. I was impressed at how well they killed them compared to CCI Mini mag Hps etc. They hit with a solid "Whump" and litterally shoved the 'dogs off the mound whereas the .22 HP HV loads would zip through, many times with minimal expansion.

Another example of this has been recently with high powered Pre charged Pneumatic Airguns. the 14 to 18g .22 cal pellets driven at 800 FPS or better REALLY thump tree Squirrels even with body hits. Those ballistics are close to a .22 short.

CB caps work well within 25 yards. I have killed everything from squirrels to big tom cats with mine. Now my arthritis is so bad I can't feel them to load single shot any more.

Randy

Shorts can be all over for velocity. In general there is a high speed at 900-1100 and a Target version at 6-800fps. I have a High Standard and a Star setup for the lower velocity, they do not like the higher velocity stuff!

Great info guys. VA, I forgot about my Grandfather's Remington Model 33 I have......would be real quiet w/that longish bbl.

Jim, 'dwell time'...that's what I meant to say

Nice triggers on old classics also! Someday I should have a Win 72A come my way, and it will be a dandy also.

Thanks again.

CB Shorts are killers but placement is key. Some guns with LR chambers will shoot shorts OK to Wow, but mostly not. My suggestion, since there are now available CB Longs and CB LR ammo, if you have a LR chamber use that stuff...if your rifle doesn't do well with shorts.

Carbon ring theory...yes, maybe. Clean the chamber after shorts and move on. Many years ago I had a LR chamber that suffered some chamber pitting due to short ammo and my ignorance. YMMV

Shorts in a "short chamber" shoot as well as most anything else fired in the appropriate chamber:

CCI CB shorts, 50 yards, bag rest w/Weaver 4X RF scope. Groups a few thou over .5". The gun will do the same with CCI short HVHP ammo.



The rifle, 20" barrel, 1:16 twist, short match chamber from Fox Ridge:




Zeroed for hogs at 10 yards, fired in numerical sequence, clean barrel, offhand leaning on post.




Hogs. If you cannot be patient and precise, wear good track shoes. If you intend to shoot a sow with the kids in tow, shoot her first. Know where you're heading in case things don't go as planned...every time you do this.







[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Familyaffair001.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Tidbit002.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/DSCN3595.jpg[/img]

CCI .22 short HPs shoot almost as well as match ammo out of my single-shot Stevens 44 1/2 match rifle out to 50 yds and are hell on anything they hit - bunnies, squirrels, p-dogs, flickertails, crows, you name it. They are by far my favorite round for hunting, but the CCI sub-sonic hollow point long rifles are just as good and a little quieter. I'm shooting up my shorts supply and buying the sub-sonics.

Thanks guys, Nice report Dan, can you elaborate on that skull cleaning/bleaching job? Thanks much.

Selmer, have used RP Subsonic's years ago, they were quiet, did not know the LR can be quieter than the short but that's good to know. Been awhile since I tried any.

Thanks again.

The class answer is a Browning Automatic chambered for .22 Shorts with a Leupold RF scope. So I don't have one.

My experience with a 24-in. Springfield is the CB Shorts and Longs are very quiet (finger snap). Super Colibris are little more than the firing pin falling. CCI Subsonics are a very loud handclap but do tremendous tissue damage and are scary accurate.

As noted in another thread I need to get the Paco tool out and fool with some CB Longs.

65BR, I stripped on the hide and as much flesh as possible then put it in a large pot on a LP burner. Very low boil for about 2-3 hours then I scraped it down, flushed the brains and other crud out with a high pressure stream from the garden hose. Couple of hours followed in a strong peroxide (hair salon supply) solution then let it dry. Had to glue some teeth back in but otherwise it turned out as you see it. Works on deer for European mounts as well, but keep the antlers out of the peroxide or they will bleach out.

..how many pigs this summer Dan?

Still amazes me every time I see your pigs with Shorts...

Shorts was I killed all my rabbits and squirrels with back in the 60s...but once Long Rifles got cheaper than Shorts it was hard to justify buying them...

Bob

Grand total of 1 since May. Lost a fight with a surgeon with a sharp knife last June and have been on a slow road to recovery. Most recent was about 3 weeks back, a sow of about 90#.

You're right about the cost of ammo and finding they would work on hogs was as much an accident as anything. I got the story tucked away somewhere, will post if I can located it.

Found it, for better or worse:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3795408/1

If you ever have a chance to pick up a Winchester model 74 in 22 short. Jump all over it.... They have a 24 inch barrel and are a blast to shoot... mine holds 23 rounds in it.... load it up and go tree rat hunting and you have all the ammo you need and then some right in the gun.

Thanks DD for the info on the skull, and the link, very informative.

Ironically, I was stunned when at a local range where I went to college, the target frames had 22 bullet sticking half in, yes, half the rear of the bullet would be sticking out the front of the target frame wood. I don't know what they were shot out of, perhaps short bbl handguns, and who knows if they went thru anything before hitting there, but perhaps the frames had some flex when hit and absorbed some energy. They looked to be full 40 gr lead, never dug them out, but it sure struck me odd and I wondered about that.

Hope your recovery goes quickly for you, and you keep those squealers in check

Oh, Sako, my father has a 72a, someday I may own it, but it's a LR chamber, but says shorts and longs also. Tube fed, grooved, looks fresh having a re-blue and stock finish decades back. Very nice those Wins.

I just caught this post. Back in the day, our local "gas station" sold .22 ammo. Shorts were $.25, longs were $.30, and LR's were $.40. We shot a lot of shorts. My best buddy's rifle was a Win Mod 63 that only shot shorts. It was sweet. My old JC Higgins bolt would shoot them all. KS had a law then that coon hunters had to carry shorts at night to try to prevent deer poaching.

I got my first .22 rifle for Christmas...but now I can't remember if it was 1964 or 1966... Used to ask for Sears .22 Shorts for my birthday and Christmas and sometimes I'd also get a brick of Long Rifles. When you would load up that long barreled Model 39 Marlin with Shorts you could shoot for a LONG time.

Just bought a Marlin 39 again but this one is the 16.5" barreled Take Down Model with the padded case. Put a Williams peepsight on it yesterday...neat time to the range I'll have to bring the last of my Shots with me to try...

Bob

Too funny, laws in KS, as if a Short well placed won't drop deer.

Bob, I noticed that model awhile back, is that new production or an older model that they made? Thanks.

Model 74 short only... My favorite 22 ever...

65BR...yes that is an older model that brings big bucks... Usually in the $750.00 range. This one would have been mint in the case but the guys wife accidentally unplugged the dry-rod of the gunsafe and the outside of the barrel ended up with some rust spots. Just what I wanted...a gun I could not wreck. This little 16.5" barreled gun hold 11 Long Rifle and 15 Shorts. I think the 39A held 26 Shorts..

Did some .22 Short shooting on Thursday. I have I believe a Savage Model 63A, I'll have check again to be sure. It is a 60s vintage with no serial number... The gun has a full stock and was the first gun made for kids...actually has a key lock behind the trigger guard for parental control.

This has become my ".22 Short" gun because the extractor is weak and will not eject Long Rifle cases. I've had three different gunsmiths work on it to no avail...new extractor and all. So I use it for Shorts and CBs which it will eject 95% of the time. Scope is a 4 power Beeman SS2 Short Scope... Camera clear optics and worth several times what the gun is worth but the aluminum base stripped out so I had a machinist friend drill and tap new holes so it fits with this gun just perfectly.

Shooting was a lot of fun. I have some Remington "High Speed" left over from the purchase of a Winchester 69A I bought back about 1973...it came with a gallon pickle jar of .22 Shorts. I gave a friend of mine about a quart of them and have been slowly burning up the rest over the years. There was also a box of Winchester "Low Velocity" that have plain lead bullets. They were only a little louder than the CCI CB Long.

Shot the shorts out of the Marlin and the Savage at a steel swinger target about 30 yards out offhand...rarely missed... Next time out with them I try and chrono some... Pics coming as soon as I get my laptop back from maintenance...

Bob

ps...just looked at the wholesale price for .22 ammo...

CCI .22 Long Rifle MiniMag 40 grain Solid 100@$5.89

CCI .22 Short High Speed 29 grain Solid 100@$6.70

CCI .22 Long Rifle MiniMag HP 100@$6.10

CCI .22 Short HP 100@$6.95

Winchester Super-X 40 grain Solid 50@$2.58

Winchester Super-X .22 Short Solid 50@$2.94

Remington High velocity .22 LR Solid 100@$5.27

Remington High Velocity .22 Short Solid 100@$$5.90

So while a little more than the best quality .22 LR ammo it is still less expensive than the top end stuff like Velocitor & Stinger that is $5.18 a box of 50, or Winchester PowerPoint and SuperSpeed which is $6.50 a box of 100.

Find a friendly dealer and buy a case and it is even a little less per box...

Thanks Bob, shocked how even 22 ammo has risen over the years, the bulk packs at Wally World get most my plinking. Glad I bought a bunch of Mini Mags long ago, and a few bricks of early run Power Points. Alas, no shorts! When able, I want to fill the tube up on a BL22 like you do your Marlin. Will be fun.

65BR,

Tried shorts in my CZ's and a couple of remingtons...the accuracy wasn't very good, not even close to accuracy with long rifles. The most accurate of the ones I tried(Rem, Win, Aguila & Aguila Match, CCI short, HP, & target) were the CCI Target's by far, But they are a solid.

Jerry

I used the shorts on my trapline as a kid, they worked on all head shots on coyotes, Javalina that got in traps, and even on a couple of Mt. Lions, penetration was good enough that I even shot a deer or two at close range in Mexico for our table. Two or three quick shots out of my Win. 63 and the deer made few tracks...That Win. 63 (marked 22 Long Rifle) would feed anything I ran through it and still will, not to shabby for and auto marked for 22 L.R. only, I don't know of any modern auto that will do that.

I guess I could have sold it for fortune to one of Croldforts coon hunting buddies to poach deer with! Maybe I still can!

..was wondering where you shot the deer....lungs, heart, nech or head?

Thanks...Bob

Well thats just the bullshit from the magnum this and magnum that crowd that spreads over everything.

WOW! That statement brought back a flood of memories. I too spent my youth in Ks.Little nothing town (Corwin),small general store sold "Peters High Velocity" .22 ammo at the staggering cost of $0.31 for a box of "shorts". State had a bounty on "crows"--$0.05 per head ( turned the heads in at the county Extension office) Mink farm down the road payed $0.30 for cottentails, and $0.50 for jack rabbits.Young fellow with a Model 72 Winchester could make damned good money back in those days (minimum wage was less than $1.00 per hr.) I still have the 72. Things sure have changed--and personally IMO, not for the better, but that rifle still puts the meat on the table.

Good info, thanks all.

I have heard of guys using shorts to kill cows while
butchering. I have never butchered a cow, but would probably
choose a 22LR or a 22mag.

I can understand that and the CCI Targets are good performers.

If you use a Rigby you'll only have to butcher one a day. The rest will be somewhere off in the next county...

Your a brave man Dan. I think the only .22 I would use on a wild hog would be a .223.

My first .22 was a Winchester 1890 in .22 Short. Use high velocity hollow points and take head shots, no squirrel or cotton tail will survive it. With body shots on rabbits you have to break a shoulder, and even then you may not completely anchor them. I remain convinced that pound for pound, the American jackrabbit is the hardest animal on earth to put down with a body shot. I busted one squarely through the shoulder with a Keith 173 grain SWC out of a .38 special. It used it's hind legs to scamper another 7-8 yards and down the hole; couldn't believe my eyes.

Head shots with a .22 Short and there's no question. I've killed on up to and including Coyote's with Remingtion Hi Velocity .22 Shorts. But always the head shot.