24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
My life with CBs #3493658 11/19/09
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 48,072
DigitalDan Offline OP
Campfire Oracle
OP Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 48,072
So, how did I wind up in the perverse, blasphemous, oft chastised state of being where I shoot hogs with shorts, never less than once? I mean NOBODY could be so silly as to actually use shorts in this day of Kevlar plated deer, right? Then, to step down to CB shorts for such efforts has got to be totally nuts, right? Well, no actually. I once thought myself a little tetched in the head about this, then during a flash of blinding insight realized it was the rest of the shooting world that was out of touch. (Yeah, OK, tongue in cheek a little)

1980 and I was living in a beach house on Florida's east coast just south of Cocoa Beach. I had come into possession of some CB caps and out of curiosity put one in a bolt rifle, stepped out back...not in that order...and pulled the trigger. I heard a 'ping' with the firing pin strike and a 'whop' with the diminutive bullet hit the intended target, and thought "Gee, that was neat. No noise."

1984, further down in South Florida and I ran across some "new" ammo put out by Winchester called CB shorts. All the counter monkey could tell me about them was it was a reduced load and fairly quiet...and $1.65/box, or thereabouts. I ran some thru the bolt rifle with its 26" barrel...."ping-whop" was how it talked. They weren't terribly accurate from that rifle but the lack of noise intrigued. Admittedly, at that point in life I knew next to nothing about the art of the rifle, having been devoted to quail hunting most of my life. Still....

1985: A Remington 572 came into my possession and on the side of the barrel it said "S,L,LR". Over half a box of bullets went down the tube and in the privacy of my back yard on the outside corner of a trailer park, nothing but an abandoned cow pasture and limerock mine in the back drop, it made a lot of "ping-whop" sounds.....and shot very well thank you. Younger eyes back then so the irons did OK for me, shooting about 1" groups all the way out to 15-20 yards from a sitting position. More intrigued I was.

1986: Feral cats began to gather in the neighborhood and a culling process began with the use of a live trap. The little CBs ended the story for a great many cats over a period of several months and to this day I know where all the bones are buried. I was surprised that all the shots went thru and thru.

Curious thing about old ladies and feral cats. It seems the ladies have a gene that requires they feed strays, and thus I had to go buy more ammo. Back then I did not discriminate much about source....it said "CB" and I said "OK". It really didn't make any difference to me, or apparently the Remington. Remington started making CBs somewhere around then and I was doing just fine until the Muscovy ducks showed up. Seems they like cat food too. Now, what I don't get is why old ladies don't seem to care for ducks, or why the cats wouldn't do their duty and defend their food bowls. One thing led to another and one day after coming home from work I laid out a trail of cracked corn from my crap covered drive to the back yard then went inside to load up.

Somewhere in cyberspace is the full telling of what followed, but the short form of it is this: The Remington held 27 or 29 shorts, don't recall precisely, and when I started I'd not fully loaded the rifle. After emptying the rifle once and reloading, the incessant 'ping-whop' and 'quack-quack' came to a stop. The stench of cordite was strong in my bedroom which served as my hide, and the battle field was littered with 27 dead ducks, all but one of which was a one shot kill. I had underestimated their determination at the beginning...the 'ping-whop' or sight of their fallen comrades did not dissuade the hoards from a sea of golden grain. My dog looked at me like I'd lost my mind, in the distance a mockingbird imitated Tiny Tim. The garbage truck hauled them away the next day, curb side service at its best! I think I got a call from Oliver Stone the next day wanting movie rights but I'd never heard of him and figured it was a crank call.

1987: Key Largo. The Keys are, or were, pretty neat. There are flies in the ointment however, one being the propensity of people to abandon cats by the brazillions. It was, in short, a target rich environment and they were baited by an nearby restaurant. I began stalking with a phenomenal string of one shot stops and over the course of 7.5 years totally lost track of the numbers killed. I lived in a seclude house, buried in tropical jungle...my perfectly private little Khe Sahn.

There was one particular hunt that fairly represents a galactic alignment of remarkable proportion. The mail girl was a very comely and leggy red head named Jill. She was always a bit aloof and I figured she was into alternative lifestyles which are popular down that way. Well, one day I was taking the garbage out and as I came around the corner I spied a small tom skulking around off the street shoulder in the back yard. Yep, my lot was fronted and reared by streets. Alternatives abounded. Retrieved the magic Remington, peeked around the corner and lined up for what would be my longest and best shot in life. Late morning, all was quiet in the area...bead between the eyes and a gentle squeeze...'ping-whop' and the tom went down like the switch was turned off. Then I heard Jill's Jeep coming up the street. blush 1st gear, 2nd gear, then just as she was about to pass the little ball of fur so purrfectly cammoed in the grasses on the shoulder, a neuro-spasm happened and the tom flopped wildly, bouncing off the side of the jeep with a resounding thump and....screech! O-M-G! The best way to confront disaster is head on....I put the rifle out of sight and walked to the accident site. Jill was hysterical, crying, apologizing...for running over my cat. I consoled her with comforting embrace of course and after she settled down and wiped her eyes I forgave her. -snuffle-snuffle- She accepted my offer to meet her that evening to talk about it and it was the start of another story I probably won't expand on much, except to say she was a gal of many alternatives, interesting talents and double digit IQ. Gosh, those CBs were looking really good to me about then.

1995-2003 I slipped and got married..not to Jill. It was a curious version of hell. Much conflict and much to struggle for. We bought a 100 acre parcel of mixed bottoms and uplands just north of Dublin, Ga and this is where my interest in the shooting sports really began to grow. In and of itself, shooting became an objective equal to hunting. I learned much in those days and nights. This is when I began to question much of what is written by gun scribes and peers, because I was seeing things that were incongruent with conventional lore. I found that it was not really necessary to use 20 mm cannons to kill things. In fact, I found that #3 buckshot from a 20 Ga. was absolutely lethal on hogs, deers, coyotes and such. I also found that a .22 LR would drop a hog dead on the spot, the first test of this coming on a boar of about 275-300#. And you know what? CB shorts were certified sufficient for 'coons, possum, and most anything else that needed a bullet. Still, it had not occurred to me that they were adequate for hogs. I wasn't that far over the edge...yet.

2003-present: My understanding 2nd and last wife and I retired in 2003, moved to the outskirts of Yankeetown, Fl. Because it is rural and bordered on wild swampy country we have...er, had a plethora of obnoxious pests to contend with. Mostly 'coons, possums, Kevlar-dillos. By then I had long since developed an interests in .22 shorts and had, in 1999 purchased a barrel so chambered from T/C's custom shop to mount on the Contender frame. A .30-30 barrel too, but that's another story. Me and 'Shorty' were having an awful lot of fun, what with feeding gators in the back yard. It has a little shorter barrel and makes an audible "pop" when I shoot it, but it is sufficiently quiet that nobody is aware I shoot it...off the balcony at sharply depressed angles. One of my favorite stories was the 'dillo that took a hit and conveniently rolled down the bank into the river. 'Gator bait.

The pigs came then. Sometime in the fall of 2004 we were beset by feral hogs. Gobs of them. At the time I had no access to private property across the street or state lands adjacent, so I was left to watch without being terribly proactive. Finally one day it occurred that a small herd was rooting in my front yard and the first thing within reach was the Remington 572, stuffed with CCI CB shorts. I figured to just 'move 'em along' in a manner of speaking, but when I got into position I thought "what the hey" and drew a bead behind the ear. "ping-whop-flop". Now I was surprised to say the least. Upon examination I found another oddity. This little porker of about 50#, shot at a later measured 38 yards, had suffered a thru and thru that included a shattered C-3 vertebrae. shocked

To bring this "short" story to a close, I will tell you what I have come to believe about all of this. There is a paper cup on my bureau with 68 empty .22 cartridges. 2 are LR, 2 are CCI short HVHP cases. LRs work fine. HP Bullets shatter when they hit bone and that is problematic in my view. CB shorts will penetrate like the dickens because they do not expand in any significant way, thus retaining sectional density. They will penetrate thru and thru on broad side neck shots on smaller hogs. They will penetrate thru and thru skulls and brain on frontal shots, this with mature hogs. Of all the cases mentioned above, only one hog required two shots and that is the boar pictured in another post in this forum. He is the one that demonstrated the folly of the behind the ear shot with shorts, even though is didn't seem to upset him when so shot. he just looked around and when he turned back to face me the story ended.

If any of you are sufficiently bored to try this on your own I strongly suggest you be fully conversant with your rifle and personal skill set. I do not know of anyone who has ever been killed by a hog, but I know many who have bled during unplanned excursions with them. Get close, take a rest against a tree and wait for the shot to come together. Make sure your tennis shoe laces are tight. If you are inclined to shoot into a crowd, take the big sow first. They sometimes get a bit pissy if you squeal one of their babies, or so my experience tells me, and that can happen with a neck shot.

Lastly, anytime you run into somebody that thinks CBs are toys and not particularly dangerous, do set their mind right on the subject. They are deadly, very deadly.

Short Dan


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


BP-B2

Re: My life with CBs [Re: DigitalDan] #3493956 11/19/09
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,899
Sakoluvr Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,899
I have only shot about 25 or so hogs, but always wanted to hunt them with a .22 It humors me when folks talk about large bores to bring them down. I have always preached shot placement, and easy kills with any gun at hand. Great read!

So, are you getting way better accuracy out of the dedicated .22 short barrel that cannot be achieved in a LR chamber?


Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper

After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb

Re: My life with CBs [Re: Sakoluvr] #3494282 11/19/09
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,361
FreeMe Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,361
Good post, Dan.

I like the option of using CB loads in my bolt gun. My first successful use with them was (like you) in a Rem 572. Accurate enough for feral...ehem...you know. CBs would be my choice for the occasional crow (my primary pest) except that civilization has grown nearly to my doorstep and I have to be concerned about where the slug ends up in the case of a miss - just as one would be with 22lr. This has forced me to switch to the (noisier) pellet rifle for such shooting, though I would much prefer to use the CBs.


Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.




Re: My life with CBs [Re: Sakoluvr] #3494913 11/19/09
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 48,072
DigitalDan Offline OP
Campfire Oracle
OP Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 48,072
Quote
So, are you getting way better accuracy out of the dedicated .22 short barrel that cannot be achieved in a LR chamber?


Yep. Here's 50 yards from a bag rest, 4X Weaver rimfire scope, 5 shots back to back which measure just slightly greater than 1/2". HVHP ammo shoots the same but about 1" higher at that distance.

[Linked Image]

The red dot gives up a little accuracy, running about 1.5" at 50 yards. However, my chosen zero with that sight and commensurate with the cover I hunt is 10 yards. The targets below were fired in numerical sequence starting with an absolutely clean bore and elbow rest on a bench. After the first three groups I adjusted the sight as annotated prior to shooting numbers 4 and 5.

[Linked Image]


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: My life with CBs [Re: DigitalDan] #3494939 11/19/09
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 48,072
DigitalDan Offline OP
Campfire Oracle
OP Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 48,072
[Linked Image]


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


IC-A

Re: My life with CBs [Re: DigitalDan] #3495141 11/19/09
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,154
A
acesandeights Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
A
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,154
You can't kill a hog with a .22, especially a short, everyone knows that.


Deserve's got nothing to do with it.

TripleA RV in Medford, OR SUCKS
Re: My life with CBs [Re: FreeMe] #3495372 11/19/09
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,141
4
43Shooter Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
4
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,141
+1, good read.

Re: My life with CBs [Re: 43Shooter] #3495506 11/19/09
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 48,072
DigitalDan Offline OP
Campfire Oracle
OP Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 48,072
Thanks for that. For me it has distilled down to a belief reinforced by the experience. Neither the caliber or charge matter so much as where you apply the force. It is a difficult concept to sell to young fellows brimming with testosterone.

If anything takes the glow off of FPE pundits it would be this exercise. WDM Bell was doing something similar with elephants and his 7x57 on a MUCH larger scale. Admittedly, more horsepower allows for a little less precision and opens broader placement options, but I'm reasonably certain wildlife hasn't really started wearing body armor.

On another note, one of the points worth considering is the skeletal structure of hogs as represented above and how their skull is put together. In somewhat simplistic terms hogs have both an exterior cranium and interior cranium. Both are fused on the forehead and aft portions of the skull but have large cavities on the sides that isolate the brain from impact damage. If you look closely at the photo below you can see the shot that near made me pess me sharts and why it did not work. There are two layers of bone visible in the hole. The bullet deflected off the interior portion of the skull and shattered a small area of that bone, but did not penetrate. Perhaps it stunned, I do not know.

[Linked Image]

The next shot views from the back of the skull looking forward, opposite of bullet path. You will see the bone mass damaged in the lower right and entry hole in the background, center. The bullet came to rest about 1" behind the skull and fell out when the head was removed.

[Linked Image]

Path:

[Linked Image]

Endgame:

[Linked Image]


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: My life with CBs [Re: DigitalDan] #3495742 11/19/09
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,821
K
kend Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
K
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,821
Crap, now I have to buy some of those too!

Last edited by kend; 11/19/09.

“Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program." -- Milton Friedman
Re: My life with CBs [Re: DigitalDan] #3495743 11/19/09
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 63,078
Mannlicher Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 63,078
back in 1964, while hog hunting near St Augustine in Palm Valley, one of the boys with us got his leg ripped open like a watermelon. Knee to crotch. He JUST missed losing the 'lads'.

I don't mess around with hogs. I kill them with something that I know will knock them about and down. My skill set is just fine, but I ain't using no damn .22 on hogs.

That being said, I have dispatched a huge number of bunnies, squirrels and feral cats with the CB .22, both longs and shorts.


Sam......

IC-B

Re: My life with CBs [Re: Mannlicher] #3495766 11/19/09
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,899
Sakoluvr Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,899
I would do it from a treestand before I went eye to eye.


Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper

After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb

Re: My life with CBs [Re: DigitalDan] #3495791 11/19/09
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,898
R
RJM Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
R
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,898
...that was one of the greatest posts I have read in a long time...especially about Jill... I guess you parted company when you were finally honest about the Tom... :-)

I used almost nothing but Sears Shorts when I was a teenager...all the game I shot with my first rifle..a Marlin 29A Golden was with Shorts... A friend still uses Shorts in one of his guns...

Bob



If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
Re: My life with CBs [Re: RJM] #3495916 11/19/09
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 48,072
DigitalDan Offline OP
Campfire Oracle
OP Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 48,072
Bob.......er, no. I lied and lied and lied. Guilt is a powerful weapon!


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: My life with CBs [Re: DigitalDan] #3496201 11/19/09
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,488
3
3sixbits Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
3
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,488
Thank goodness I never had made a picture of the piles of game and pests with the Acorn brand of .22 CB caps. They have to be one of the best killing slugs of all time, them little pointy bullets sure do work.


Thus saith thr lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeh from the lord. Jeremiah 17:5 KJV
Re: My life with CBs [Re: DigitalDan] #3496666 11/20/09
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,436
D
DMB Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,436
Dan,

Excellent thread, and good words U write!
I have a bunch of CB's, Shorts, and BB caps for "special" occasions when I need to dispatch something with minimum noise. grin


Don Buckbee

JPFO
NRA Benefactor Member
NSSA Life Member






Re: My life with CBs [Re: DigitalDan] #3496953 11/20/09
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,064
biglmbass Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,064
Great read, Dan. Thanks for taking the time to post and explain your thought process and fondness for CBs.

I'm curious to know how long your Contender Carbine barrel is? I long ago had a 21" sporter weight 7-30 Waters, but balance was terrible and it went down the road. I keep telling myself I need another carbine length barrel but have yet to find a deal that speaks to me.

Re: My life with CBs [Re: Mannlicher] #3496957 11/20/09
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,154
A
acesandeights Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
A
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,154
Thanks for the overlay of the skeleton and the detailed photos. I think it brings a lot to the argument for .22 in your application.


Deserve's got nothing to do with it.

TripleA RV in Medford, OR SUCKS
Re: My life with CBs [Re: biglmbass] #3497052 11/20/09
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 48,072
DigitalDan Offline OP
Campfire Oracle
OP Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 48,072
Originally Posted by biglmbass
Great read, Dan. Thanks for taking the time to post and explain your thought process and fondness for CBs.

I'm curious to know how long your Contender Carbine barrel is? I long ago had a 21" sporter weight 7-30 Waters, but balance was terrible and it went down the road. I keep telling myself I need another carbine length barrel but have yet to find a deal that speaks to me.


20" for the .22 barrel, and 22" for the .30-30, both sporter contours. I've a couple of observations about the T/C carbine: Ugly and not terribly conducive to offhand shooting. Very light and sufficiently accurate for any demand I'd place on the respective cartridges. I rarely shoot it in the field without resting it against a tree, but since I still hunt mostly, there always seems to be one handy when I pause to observe. I have made a few offhand shots but don't care to do so if it can be avoided. Always thought a bull contour would address the balance issue you mention and the package is so short that 26" of barrel for CF cartridges won't hurt either. Hindsight is 20/20, no?

The .30-30 barrel chamber was cut to larger than normal dimensions and is problematic for reloading although I've done that with neck sizing only. Call it an 'Almost Ackley Improved'. T/C customer service was not helpful in finding remedy.

It is an effective tool and little more. Given different circumstances I'd favor other rifles after all is considered. I've got an old .25-20 lever gun that makes me hope for an invasion of ostriches. laugh Then there's the Rigby. Anyone know if Jurassic Park has reopened?


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: My life with CBs [Re: DigitalDan] #3498615 11/20/09
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,721
T
tjm10025 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,721

Dan:

Terrific post.

I've been thinking more and more about a .22 rifle with a chamber cut for shorts.

Standard velocity shorts are interesting, too. My father-in-law had a passion for shooting what he called pocket gophers in his Michigan backyard. He used .22 short solids. Not as quiet as CBs, but pretty quiet compared to .22 lr. And he killed a bunch of those flower-munching varmints.

- Tom

Re: My life with CBs [Re: tjm10025] #3499276 11/21/09
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,898
R
RJM Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
R
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,898
I have one of the TC Contender Carbines. The .22 barrel was from the Custom Shop that someone had on a table at a show for $150.00...has been an excellent shooter. Barrel is 18" long and full bull profile. Used to have a folding stock on the gn which was fine for long rifle barrels but it made me a little nervous with the 18 and 16.5" barrels because folded it was less than the 26" minimum under Federal regulations. TC said it was legal as that was a "storage" position...I didn't feel like being a test case and sold it. The gun now wears a Bell&Carlson Carbolite thumbhole stock and it shoots great.

I have some shorts and CB Longs that I need to try out. Also just picked up a Marlin 39 TDS that will cycle shorts that should be tried also...

Bob


If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

RR1b
Who's Online Now
602 registered members (12344mag, 1100mag, 10gaugemag, 160user, 06hunter59, 01Foreman400, 64 invisible), 2,573 guests, and 1,102 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3










Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.3.29 Page Time: 0.065s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8885 MB (Peak: 1.0646 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2021-08-05 18:20:51 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS