Been looking at an elk-capable gun. I have pretty much decided that a 280 AI will fit the bill for what I need. I don't have an unlimited budget to work with. I was looking at options, and for 400 bucks I can Buy an Axis II. For 450 I can get one with a stainless barrel. I could probably swing a Kimber hunter for 750. But got to thinking, what does that extra 300-350 get me? 2 inches longer barrel would be nice, but is it worth that? I know many on here knock the Axis, but fact of the matter is most of those shoot pretty well for being a budget gun. Plus the Savage comes with bases and the Kimber does not. So in my mind I am trying to see if I am justified in spending that extra money for the Kimber. So again, what actually does the extra money get me? How would I be happier with a Kimber?

You get to play the Kimber accuracy roulette!

No thank you.

Panache ain't cheap!

g

Invest the extra $350 in better glass for the rifle. You cannot hit what you cannot see...

What does the extra $350 get you? It gets you a nicer, easier to carry, better designed, better built rifle. No doubt the Axis II will get the job done, so if that is all you care about, then the extra $350 for the Kimber won't be worth it. But, there is no doubt the Kimber is the nicer rifle.

Sort of like the fat ugly girl or the trim good-looking one - either will get the job done but which would you rather have be seen with?

drover

Yep that’s what I’d say as well.

If you don't handload, over time the savings may be realized on a different chambering. With the Savage, you are more likely to get a shooter out of the box. If you got a shooter in the Kimber, I'd say it's worth the extra coin. As much as I am not a fan of any of the bottom rung Winchester, Savage, Ruger and Reemington rifles, accuracy generally isn't an issue.

I do handload so not an issue there. So forgive me, I have not kept up on a lot on Kimber, but am I understanding that getting an accurate one may be hit or miss? There really are not many options under 900...maybe a savage 110 may be better than the axis?

Consider buying a used rifle. Most hunting rifles never see enough rounds to worry about the barrel being shot out, but you do need to inspect for rust, etc. You can often get a better quality rifle for the cost of the "value" rifle offerings with flimsy synthetic stocks and general lack of refinement.

Half my rifles were pre-owned, gently used and all shoot great. I pop clay pigeons on the berm at 600 yards using a Savage 11 FXP3 in .243 I paid $295 for. Also a Ruger M77 in .257 Roberts I bought used 16 years ago. One of the most accurate rifles I ever owned was a 1975 Remington M700 in .308 Win. Have not shot it at 600 but a stainless Ruger MKII .223 Rem I bought used shoots clovers at 100.

Or you can shop the sales. cdnnsports.com has Ruger Hawkeye rifles on sale for $499 in .30-06 (20" bbl) and .308 Win (22" bbl). I bought one of the .30-06 rifles for a son-in-law as a wedding present 3-4 years ago and still wish I had one myself. Either will do fine for an elk hunt. The Ruger synthetic stocks are among the better factory synthetics. I will most likely be carrying my Ruger Hawkeye stainless/synthetic .280 Rem elk hunting this year - with a handloaded 150g ABLR at 2899fps and 7000 feet altitude, it delivers 2100fps and 1500fps past 640 yards. If you don't handload, Federals .280 140g Trophy Copper delivers 2200fps and 1500fpe to 550 yards. Federal's 175g .30-06 Terminal Ascent load delivers 2100fps and 1500fpe past 650 yards.

Good luck whatever you choose.

This seems correct, re: loading. That said, I was at BPS and GreenTop today. Both had tons of 280AI sitting around on sale. Regular 280 was nearly sold out (I grabbed some 165 CL just to fool with) but apparently AI is just a step too far even for panic buyers. So you could always just buy a ton of ammo now and have it last for a decade.

It's a moot point because it isn't chambered in 280AI, but in terms of overall build and component quality, I don't think any of the other entry level guns are on the same level as Winchester's XPR. (I'm not trying to hijack, I swear!)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


THIS


I'm not a fan of the "BIC" rifles but would buy and tote any one of them before I spent money on a Kimber.

The Savage Lightweight Storm falls in between the Axis and the Kimber Hunter in price and weight. It is not available in 280AI. It is in 6.5 Creed, 270 and and 7-08. I have had two and still have one. Both were sub MOA. The Savage 110 Storm comes in 280AI as well. It will likely be very accurate. It's weight is near the Axis and price will fall between the Hunter and and the Axis. It has better stock construction than the Hunter, Axis and lightweight Storm.

Kimber has a reputation for being finicky in terms of accuracy. They seem to have issues more often than average based on my readings across many forums. That's why they earned the nickname Kimber Roulette. Customers on average don't report positive customer service experiences.

On an almost daily basis I see members here mention rifles they couldn't get to shoot so they "sent them down the road"

I saw WAY more used rifles on shelves today than I expected. I guess it's the big inventory right before hunting season... but most of them either looked essentially new (and were priced at close to original retail) or, to Paul's point, looked like someone dumped them for a reason. Unless you really know what you're looking for/at or you're specifically interested in a "project," I'd be leery of buying a used rifle.

Have you considered a used CLR in 270, 7mm RM, 30-06, or 300 WM?

Less expensive than the Kimber, lighter than the AXIS, a short lived, under appreciated, better than average value IMO.

My primary overwatch elk hunting rifle is a CLR in 270 so I may have a little bias.

FWIW, I noticed that the local WM is selling stainless AXIS rifles for $255 plus tax in 6.5 CM. I like the 6.5 CM, but don't care for the ergs of the AXIS, so the low price isn't enough to motivate me to be a buyer.

Light rifles are tough to shoot.

Check out the Mauser M12, pretty cheap from EuroOptic, but with a an outstanding trigger and excellent accuracy from all reports. Likely not available in .280, but plenty of others. Mule Deer has a 7 RM, or did (he has a high turnover rate!) Metal is nitrided, a big plus to me.

I suggest changing the cartridge choice to 30-06. That will broaden the choice of rifles, new or used.

Bingo!

The Kimber’s are fine rifles.

Can you go used? Although that might not be much help right now.

The Axis is pretty rough. I’ll fitting, 78 pound trigger, not smooth...Ruger American? Kinda somewhere in the middle of the two.

Some people just don’t know how to shoot.

If you're looking for a 280AI and you don't handload I think you're really limiting your options for rifles and ammo.
Have you considered a 270 or 30-06 Tikka?

Handle them both, it will become apparent which you prefer.

Never owned a Kimber that wouldn’t shoot. Also never shot one that did not go through a preflight check.
YMMV.

For $750 I would pick the Tikka over the Kimber every time.

Pick the rifle, not the cartridge. A .30-06 or .270 or 7mm mag. will kill stuff just as dead as a .280AI. There are plenty of rifles to choose from in those chamberings that fall between those two price points.

TC COMPASS 2, 7mm Remington, $234 after rebate.

Nope, nevermind, sold out again at kyguns.

Get a 270, geeze.

B-I-N-G-O

😎

Truth. 5lb rifles are harder to shoot well then heavier rifles. I think the Kimber roulette meme is a hold over from some QC issues they had years ago combined with the difficultly of benching an ultralight rifle. Most of the threads and posts I see on the Hunters today are positive, I wouldn't be scared at all to pick one up.

I've been plenty happy with my Montana, I actually have a Hunter stock and didn't see any accuracy difference between my bedded Montana stock and my Hunter stock.





A decent chambering and 14oz of suppressor hanging off the end help, but I'm not afraid to play Kimber roulette again, especially if the alternative is a Salvage Axis.

Axis II vs Hunter doesn't comer up often. Bump

...self respect? Lol

The savage will shoot. The kimber will be handed down to grandkids.

I've had exactly two used rifles I sent back down the road. The first was a Remington M700 BDL .308 Win that shot bughole groups. It got sold to fund my first AR, which came with two uppers - .223/5.56 and .300 BLK. The other was a Ruger American .30-06 Dad gave me before he passed away. I tried 7 or 8 different types of factory ammo in it and couldn't find one that shot as well as I'd like. Did not bother with handloads as I already had multiple .30-06 rifles. This one helped fund another rifle as well. Nothing really wrong with it other than I couldn't get sub-MOA groups with factory ammo and I didn't have the time or desire to fool with it. Or space in the safes.

Right now I have 5 bolt rifles in my safe that were acquired used - ..223 Rem, 243 Win, .257 Roberts, .30-06 and a .338WM that was assembled from used factory parts (action, stock and barrel) from different sources. All shoot great. Bought a used lefty Remington M700 BDL in .270 Win for Daughter #1 and it shoots very well too - 4-shots @ 0.7" and 3-shots @ 0.3" at 100 yards last time I checked it, per my load notes.

While I understand the concern, I haven't had a bad used rifle yet.

All of the budget rifles shoot better than they should for the cost. But I consider them disposable rifles. You use them until something breaks and then buy another. And I don't really mean that in a negative way. I have some and they shoot pretty well. But those aren't the guns I will be proud to see one of my grandkids own someday.

280AI for a non-loader? Silly.

My stainless T3 in 7mm Rem Mag is an elk killing machine. 24” barrel, light, accurate, easy on the shoulder with a Limbsaver.




P

Scoop up an old stock or slightly used Tikka T3 off gunbroker and don't look back

For that price point, this is exactly how I would proceed.

Elk wouldn’t like this.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/873072459
Get load info from pharm.

I agree about looking for a used rifle. I found this one for $500.00 locally. I pulled the Leupold off and sold it on ebay. Now I have $175.00 in the rifle:


Thats one thing you will never be able to do if you buy a damn Savage Axis. You will never be able to sell it and re-coup your money. Used is often times the best way to buy...

May have to look into that again. I tried a 7mm mag for a yr or so, and absolutely hated the recoil. It was a sharp jab in the shoulder, and I could not get used to it. Send it down the road. But in thinking back, I had several strokes against me. First the LOP was too long for me. I have shorter arms, and need 13 1/4 or 13 1/2. SO fit was bad. Plus it was the first I tried loading for a higher recoiling gun. Before that I was used to my 260. This was a lot more. But since then I have reloaded some more rifles that were a bit higher recoiling. A 45-70 with a 420 grain bullet at 1600 fps. and a 358 winchester with a 230 grain cast at 2200. Again, not in the 7mag levels, but I have gotten fairly comfortable shooting those, so I think I may be fine with a 7mag. I just need to try one again.

(With no disparagement intended to you personally, Mr. Barnard)

I cannot vouch for the shooting ability of every member here, nor their effectiveness at systematically trying to get a rifle to shoot well.

Every rifle I own was purchased used. Other that ones bought solely as donors (which I avoided the temptation to shoot), they all shoot better than I do. But then I am not a self-proclaimed sniper.