Buddies & I were talking semi-serious hypotheticals and tasked ourselves to pick between these two rifles specifically and give our reasons. It was fun so I thought I’d ask you all.

A post 64 Winchester 70 CRF Featherweight vs the Tikka T3x. In your response, include the rifle, cartridge of choice & your rationale & load if you have one to share.

No factory ammo will be used. Assume the hunter already has a .223 and a 375 H&H

Purpose: Hogs, Deer & Elk
Max Range: 500yd
Average Range: 125-250yd
Glass: Burris FF II 3-9 w/ BDC
Shooting skill: Intermediate
Handload: Yes
Factory load: No

*This is a what happens when several friends drag the Leadcore & Spoons around Lake Champlain for 10 hours. Apologies in advance.

Pints

be hard to overlook a fast twist 6mm.

proof prefit in 6mm creedmoor in a krg bravo is gonna be bad medicine for most all critters. 108gr eld and ur golden

or a 223 twisted right with enough room in the mag box to get the good bullets where they need to be.

Winchester 70 Featherweight CRF in 7mm-08 or 7x57. The Tikka may be a hair more accurate (maybe not though), but it can't touch the class and cool factor of the Winchester. I still like a rifle with a walnut stock and blued streel. Nobody does that better than Winchester in the non custom rifle dept these days.

Winchester Mod 70 in 300 WSM. Elk capable to 500 yards. Having handled and shot both rifles I feel the M70 has a better designed stock.

Controlled round feed would be my choice.

Word on the street is that the Winchesters coming out of Portugal are very well made.

Firstly,Teeker only makes (1) length centerfire receiver,whether it 223 or 7mm RemMag. Everything is shoehorned into same,with their Dog Schit magazines. Hint.

70's come in S/A and L/A,with the S/A having the mechanical advantage,as it grants longer COAL than "most" S/A's and their L/A is the fhuqking opposite(trite). Hint.

CRF makes less than zero fhuqks and the Teeker schit mag is single stack and obviously polymer lipped,so they feed slick by default. Teeker wears the better trigger to boot and as an ergo rule,a better fitting stock. Hint.

Teeker 223's suck heavy ass as issued,do their Dog Fhuqk COAL and Goat Fhuqk magazine. Toss it an AICS pitch and you can do some thangs. 1-8" version here. Hint.





Winny Retard Twists their .284's and also does the mag spacer block in S/A. 7-08 here. Hint.



As 300 Whizzum's go,the Winny is a Goat Fhuqk. All wear schit stocks,throats are long and the recoil muchly in relation to mass. Second from bottom. Hint.



The Winny Milk Jug stocks are amongst THE worst and the Dog Dick action fasteners,a fhuqking joke. The multi-piece bottom metal,is also fhuqking HILARIOUS. A Montucky chambered same,shoots wayyyyyyyy softer,despite being of less gross mass. Hint.





Just sayin'.

Hint.

Laughing!..............

Have a 280 and a 6.5cm, both pretty new CRF featherweights. Both shoot MOA with factory ammo. 6.5 with Hornady 129s. 280 with 140 trophy copper. Both cycle smooth as glass. Prefer walnut and metal components.

Portugal fit and finish is outstanding.

70 all day long for me. A few easy mods to the 70 are my way to roll. I tried to love the Tikka and still have a couple, but the 70's work better for me. I'd bet a dollar their 6.5 CM in an EW would be pretty decent if you like the stock.

I don't love the FN trigger's, but they aren't a huge mountain to fix up either. Their 7-08 in the same EW would be a heckuva good rifle. Shoot the factory barrel for awhile and change it out to something more useful. Might not be a bad set up either.

I’m hooked on model 70s and really like blue and wood but I have some with McMillan stocks and even some with so-called plastic stocks as well.
Can’t go wrong with a model 70 in 30-06 or 280 or 338-06 or or or you name it.
Les

If it were me, M70 all the way

M70 in 6.5X55.

If you're looking for class, forget the 7mm-08 and go 7x57.....that package will handle anything you mentioned, and with panache.

If you feel compelled to get a 7mm-08 get the Tikka. You won't be sorry...

Hilariously,adding case length to a schit rifle,do NOT "help" it or it'sRetard Twist Rate. Hint. Congratulatons?!?

Not that I don't enjoy Fhuqktards trying their BEST. Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!

Bless your poor poor(literally) hearts.

Hint.

Laughing!.................

Montana in 7mm-08 or 280ai if you want a long action.


Tikka in 308 would work too.

pretty ez to get a 162gr eld-m up to speed in a tikka 7mm-08

lengthen the bolt stop and run a -06 length mag

heaps of room to groove.



but you said O-250 and maybe 500

in case i'd 223 tikka in a krg bravo..

never wanted or touched the kimber montana 223, or even the fieldcraft.

ez pass.

make the shooting part easier. that's the goal

and if 2lbs upsets ya, not sure how ur gonna manage straps, loins, 4 quarters and head from 7-8 miles back.

Stick - I should know better, but gonna ask anyway. Honest question: other than not caring for CRF what's the big objection to new M70s?

For what they cost and what you get they strike me as a nice deal. (Assuming you want walnut/blued)

Another vote for CRF in short and long actions vs the Tikka one size fits all push feed action...To me the Tikka's are good shooting tools but they have no soul like a Winchester 70 or Kimber Montana does...Hb

CRF is moot and nary a point. Hint.

The new 70's are RagTag schit and of Dog Dick materials. Walnut/blued is THE worst "option" available to anyone. Hint.

I've Pre-64's,Post,Transition and New CRF's. Winny drops all balls,as Mechanics go. The stocks are routinely schit,as are the triggers and they are hillairously inept. Hint.

A "good" deal? Hardly. Hint.

Laughing!.......................

Of the choices, make mine a M70 (or a Kimber).

But don't forget the Kimber Classics and Classic Selects. About 1/2 pound heavier than the Kimber Montana, but a pound lighter than the M70 Featherweight. Much classier than the Fwt too.

Yeah the SA Classic Selects are trim and balanced

I literally asked for it, so fair enough, I guess.

I'll keep to walnut/blued. Weather hasn't ruined one yet and the bullet seems to find its way into lung tissue. Works for me.

What speed is “up to speed” with the 162? I’m getting 2780 with 150 eldx. I ran a bunch of what-ifs with velocity comparing my load to the 162 and I had to get the 162 really moving to equal the numbers.

I own both Tikka & Win 70 CRF. Hans down prefer the Win. CRF. Box magazine with a floor plate compared to a cheapo plastic magazine that only holds two rounds. Also the recoil lug of the Win is an integral part of the action, not an add on washer. THE Win will shoot every bit as accurate as the Tikka. MY Savage rifles are by far my most accurate. But overall the Winchester is the clear winner in my opinion.

2700 give or take is the goal with 162's if barrels run in the low 20" range.

the advantage with the 162 is that it will exhibit good upset down to 1600.. reliably too. plenty of data on this.

not sure i'd send a 150 down to 1600 and expect wound channel much greater then a pin hole. 200gr eld-m weren't impressive at lower velocities and with a constant linotype and jacket thickness you'd expect more upset with a higher volume to surface ratio... 150's should in theory be harder then a 200 eld-x

and the thing with the 162, it's not explosive up close.

i don't have the time to shoot 10 animals with every bullet combo just to establish a baseline. seen shot, have shot, and know of hundreds of dead critters in new zealand with the 162gr eld-m/amax. all from a tikka stainless.

deviating from that known constant would be difficult for me. my bro did shoot an elk with my kimber and a 150gr eld-x.. and it was fine.

but 162 and tikka stainless is my constant. everything else is measured and needs to improve from said baseline

Man, either would work just fine. Its really a toss up to me if we are talking Classic stainless vs. something like the Tikka T3x stainless lite model. For me, it would be like this:

30-06 Stainless classic with walnut stock:

Scope even meets the op's requirement^^^


Tikka T3 stainless lite 308win:



Both newer rifles to me: Bought within the last 2 months. Each one will get some field time this year... For loads, I'm thinking I'd run the 165 TSX in the 308 and a 165-168 TTSX/TSX in the 30-06 or a good ol 180 or 200gr partition. Whatever I felt like using at the moment. I need to add, if it came down to a Portuguese model 70 and a Tikka, I'd pick the Tikka..

Great advice.

70

how many top flight gunsmiths use m70s and how many churn out tikkas? There is your answer.

Teekers as a whole,are FAR more sound than 70's of any/all vintages. 'Course as mentioned,the stock ergo's are better too. Hint.

Not that I don't enjoy Brokedick Drooler pics,of those who can only afford 50% of scope caps. Hint. LAUGHING!

Winchester has an amazingly long track record,of dropping the ball and they go wayyyyyyyy outta their way to make certain dots don't connect mechanically. Pardon my simply shooting it all and then some. Hint.

LAUGHING!..................

Tikka, Talleys, FFII, 30-06, factory ammo. May the odds be forever in your favor.

You serious??? Puh-leeeeze..

Is that because the M70 requires a gunsmith and the Tikka is good to go right out of the box?

This.

Pretty sure he's getting at the fact that not many folks customize or build a custom based on a $450 rifle with lots of plastic.

I've owned 5 m70 FWTs. None needed anything out of the box. All shot/shoot MOA with factory ammo.

A Socko made product vs Winnie......

I don't know. My model 70 7mm-08 is pretty slick and accurate little rifle. I hear you on the 7x57 though. I have an XTR Featherweight in that chambering that is one of my favorites.

Out of the box Classic stainless in 300 WM. Not recommending the caliber per your requirements, just the platform. This is with factory ammo (Hornady0 used to sight in the scope. I also looked at the Tikkas and to me it was the M70 all the way. I can't speak to the synthetic stocks because i only own one and it's a McMillan.

I know. At the end of the day a rifle is a tool. Many "single task" tools come in a huge variety of both quality and usefulness. I have 2 LH M70s and 1 LH Tikka. The M70s are nice rifles, but I drag synthetic rifles around the woods. Mostly that is because I'm afraid to damage the "pretty" guns. Also, the synthetic and stainless guns tend to shrug off moister and temperature changes better. (Hell, despite having several nice rifles, I tend to carry a RAR more than anything else) Guess I'm more of a "tool user" then a "tool appreciator". Perhaps I should just get over it and put some "character" on the wood guns.

If you would prefer to leave your kids a nice stick of plastic then have at it. Sounds like you haven't t owned or held a true piece of craftsmanship in the form of a rifle made to order. Once you do, that Tikka, while perhaps a useful tool, will reveal itself as the soulless object it is.

Always cracks me up when someone uses "soul" as it pertains to a rifle. They're all tools, some nicer and functionally better than others.

Do you deny that a piece of dad or granddad does not reside in a family rifle?
Should I presume you have only plastic furniture in your home? No nice pieces? A chair is merely an item with a function right?

"don't hold back" is in the title...………..

I have held some very nice rifles that could only be described as functional art. Some have been so far out of my price range that I had no business even picking them up. I'd love to own a bespoke rifle at some point. Even a high end "curio" like a made for me Dakota M10. I begrudge no one there toys. I'd also like to travel to hunt at some point. Out of curiosity, what would it cost me to have one of my M70s turned into an "Al Biesen-esk" rifle? (actually, not being snarky, serious question)

2 things here.

1 My family isn't very warm and fuzzy so I may have become a product of that.

2 At one point I stood, across the street in the open garage of my neighbors house watching the fire department put out my house. I looked left and right, saw my wife and kids and had a "moment of clarity". Everything else is just stuff. When I added up a list of things that would have truly hurt to loose, it came down to one arm load. Admittedly, one of those things was Dad's Win 94 (I didn't loose it BTW). Other then that one generation "legacy" I have little that can't be replaced. (see point #1)

The only thing to favor the 7x57 is panache.

My grandpa's stainless/synthetic model 700 243 could tell a lot of stories if it could talk. You don't need a wood stock to be nostalgic. Sorry.

It’all just schit....

If anyone is interested in empirical data to substantiate or form thier opinion on this subject, you can do a search for the testing process the Canadian Rangers used to select their current duty rifle.


The cliff notes version is that they put most currently available bolt actions through rigorous testing in harsh conditions to test for reliability and accuracy. Tens of thousands of rounds, worst conditions possible. The results might surprise some.

Love my CRF 70s BUT I have yet ti see ANY documented case of a hunter being killed due to a push feed rifle failing.

We won WW II with a "push feed semi-auto". just sayin'

Nor have I seen ANY documented case of a hunter not being successful in the field, due to using a push feed rifle. RJ

I stopped reading at "Canadian" 😂😇😂😇

https://www.tikka.fi/rifles/tikka-t3x/t3x-arctic

Interesting!

I totally get it. I used to baby an older walnut gun. The first ding was liberating. Now it's an heirloom *and* a practical tool. That said, its way harder to mess up wood than people think. A little oil and a little wax and no worries.

I knew a guy years ago that told a story about being on a construction crew. Boss got new truck for the crew to use and everyone was babying it (probably out of fear). Finally the boss grabbed a framing hammer out of the back, put a dent in the fender and told them to get to work.

Crossing international borders doesn't seem to adversely affect rifle functionality.

Likewise, regional and personal biases don't seem to positively impact designs' functionality during objective testing.

But it was all metal and wood! 😇😂

Was just a joke. Though if folks applied that logic to M70s from Portugal...

Make mine a M70 Fwt and given the OP's parameters, make my M70 Fwt a 270Win.

Enter the gay. Was only a matter of time.

Didn't say nostalgic. I said soul. My dad and I are piecing together parts to make my daughter a 7x57. Using a beautiful old 1909 Argie. When done, that rifle will be a product of love, imagination, and two lifetimes of hunting experience and memories. When she holds it she will know who commissioned it for her and why as well as the craftsmanship of the maker. A plastic Tikka, while a useful, well-made rifle, cannot compete with that. Nor should it try.

Well, la tee da........ I have and like BOTH. They BOTH work.


Jerry

I was on a construction crew in 1978 in central Missouri when that exact thing happened! It was a Red 1978 Ford 4x4 and about 2 days old when he did that. We got busy after that.
Les

Pints: Sounds like this is just a fun theoretical discussion, corrrect? Or are you actually going to purchase one or the other? If so, do you have any personal experience with CRF model 70s at all?

Honestly, they are BOTH a piece of schidt. Get with the times.

You are such a WHORE! LMAO. Hell the 30/06 FW is the best picture you have of one single rifle . Posting your excessive number of personal pics of targets and rifles is quite well known here in these parts. LMAO Oh Carry On!

HEY!!! IMA TOUT owning a .308 the size as a damn .30/06 and !!!!!!!!!!

Truth.

I happen to own both styles but this conversation was between several friends so we himmed & hawed about what two rifles. If it were me alone I’d have asked about the Rem 700 vs T3x but that wasn’t our conversation.

It’s interesting to discover the tension that exists between the M70 & T3x in the comments is the same that I experience as I explore buying a new rifle.

Like JWall I have both & like both but they occupy different spaces.

it's a lot easier to get a crf to eff up in cold and ice then a good push feed design like a tikka.

even if there's clearance in the raceway under normal conditions for the extractor to snap over the rim of the cartridge, adding ice via hoarfrost or condensation to the extractor will stop up an crf so fast it's not even funny.

if you store a tikka with the bolt closed and on safe, it's nearly impossible to get the gun to malfunction.

pour water on it, dump it into a 30 below snowbank and it will not bobble even the slightest. you must have the bolt closed and on safe to engage the sear. not engaging the sear invites a malfunction.


sand and grit are impervious as well


whereas it's not hard at all to get crf to get stuck and jammed. see above about extractors.. montana's triggers will eff up quick as..

if a once in a lifetime tag is on the line and temps and snow are a factor.. no crf for me.

Don't like that one? How about this 30-06 fwt?


Sounds like you want to see more target pics too?
This is how the rifle above shoots:


Sorry, it's not a 3 shot group... Post up what you got, unless you are just trolling

Here's another Tikka that I really like. 7mm08 stainless lite. Shoots great too and easy to pack around:


Or another post 64 model 70, chambered in 7mm08:


I'm like Jwall, have both and use both. They both work very well. Like I said in my first post, it's a toss up.. To the op, choose either one and you'll be just fine.

This pos has NOT missed a lick since 2003. Killed a truck load of deer.
The T 3 (R) was bought before the '03 season ---- 2020 = 18 seasons, wait, wait 03 was 1st season so 18 is right.



I bought the T3X 7 RM (L), in 2018 and 18 was it's first season for me



No Deer missed




I bought this PF 70 FTWT 6.5X55 in Dec. 2011



First Deer Nov 2012




This Doe Dec. 2020




This nice buck Nov 2020



NO hitches, Both work.

Jerry

Nice battery of rifles there jwall. Great pics.

yep, just a tool. that works well, very well

Thanks Guys.

The Tikka action is used in quite a number of PRS builds. It is the alternative to a custom action.

Given the OP’s original choices, I’d go with my T3 Lite SS in 30-06 using 180 Accubonds as my all-rounder. I’ve never owned a M70 Fwt so I can’t comment on those, but I’d be perfectly happy with my Portugal M70 EW in 7mm08 slinging 140 Accubonds as well.

I have both and have no qualms with either. I prefer a hunting rifle with a floorplate mag where I can drop extra rounds straight in (not a detachable mag). I also like a 3-position safety like the Winchester or Ruger Hawkeye.

However, I've started using my Tikka for night pig hunting and find the detachable 5 round mags much more convenient in the dark. The continuous receiver top is also nice as for mounting a picatinny rail. I regularly mount a Pulsar Thermal scope on mine. I've never liked mounting a rail on a winchester style receiver that spans across the opening.

Great pics JWall! You’ve got a nice lookin collection!

Im enjoying the posts and as I stated earlier, I already own both, and this was a hypothetical exercise to see what the ‘fire would have to say & share. I’m very impressed with the detail shared - almost like a masters course in rifle selection!

For some reason I feel the need mire than ever for a 7x57. I guess the 7mm bug has been creeping on me - I currently own a 7mm Ultra Mag which I haven’t really found a real use for and might unload it in favor of something more useful.

Thnx Pint.

I didn’t say Half Pint.

Jerry

Okay, even defining soul as you did, A big part is in your words “lifetimes of hunting experience and memories”. That Aspect of “soul” still does not require wood and blued. And that’s my point.

Enjoy the rifle project With your dad and daughter, sounds great!

10-4. Opinions and elbows I guess. All good.

I've got two customs builds on Tikka actions. The smith didn't even have to true it up, it was straight from the factory.

Lots of people whine and cry about Tikka's "small" ejection port, but it's one huge reason Tikka actions are so stiff, strong, and accurate.

Interesting, When on the search for my go anywhere "PBGR" I choose the Tikka because it eliminated the nits I had with the Rem 700.

It a'int the extractors it's the triggers.

The so called "cassette" triggers will pack up quickly in salt air or fine sand conditions.

That is what makes the older M70s so reliable. The BEST single stage trigger ever put in a sporting rifle. The only one more reliable is the Mauser 2 stage.

IMO all the problems with the Walker trigger can be traced to crud in it.

As for two stage: If it works in the trenches of WW One it will work in any hunting application.

Well there's two we now know of!

With the controlled round action you can just open the bolt just right and push the round back into the magazine straight down when you need to get in the truck. Can't do that with a push feed.

I cannot imagine anything more important.

Just easier and faster, no chance of dropping a cartridge in the snow. I am glad you imagination is so limited.

Did it with PF 70’s and 700’s for years. I must be amazing.

And you are! Did you have jack one out into your hand opening the action and then put it back in the magazine and close the bolt holding the top round down so the bolt wouldn't catch the rim? Were you wearing gloves? CRF actions are far easier to do the same thing with.

wut?

one in the tube, mag box full.

The Tikka is the Toyota Camry of rifles, and I mean that in a good way. That said, I've sold my Tikkas - I want to like the guns I own and just never liked them. I would grab a model 70 in a heartbeat if the right opportunity presented itself.

300 Weatherby would be my choice

I must be unusual. I have and love model 70’s and tikkas. Love and use both. I have sold everything else.

All I have is tikka for push feeds. Models 70’s only like pre 64’s and stainless classics.

Haha some days I feel like a half pint short.

That's mostly a non-argument. No mention is made of what rifles the Tikka was tested against, and I'm doubtful they tested against the older M70 w/ crf and open trigger design. And I also doubt they tested the even simpler and more rugged Ruger 77 MKII/Hawkeye. I'd take either of those over a Tikka with its removeable magazine in cold, snowy conditions. I'd bet a removable magazine was part of the military's criteria. And of course, military weapon choices are notoriously political.

I have nothing against the T3, and in fact when a guy (or gal) new to Montana asks me what rifle to buy for elk hunting I tell them to get a Tikka T3 in 270 Win. Mount a Burris 3-9 with dots on top in Talley Lwt rings, add a Butler Creek Mountain Sling and you're off to the races.

But for me I throw up a bit in my mouth around the Tikka. For a lightweight I'd always rather pack a Kimber MT, and for a midweight I'd rather use an M70.

But the Tikka does it all right off the shelf with no dicking around...

Tikka's are great rifles, but I wouldnt put to much stock in what the Canadian Rangers use or their testing. If you lived here you would know why.
In any event their first choice wasnt the Tikka, it was the Ruger Gunsite scout, but they couldnt get them at the price they wanted so went with the Tikka, and got soaked. A good friend did some research and wrote an article on it and if my memory is correct they paid over 3k per rifle.

I have Tikka's, and they are fine guns, but as far as reliability goes, the Winchester/ Ruger wins hands down.

I have. A few times actually. On expensive hunts too. Most of the failures I've seen were with Remington 700s. The hunters ended up being successful, but only because they used my rifle.

I love both the win 70 action(or Kimber) and tikkas. They are my top preference out of all the actions. I do prefer the 3 position safety on the win/Kimber, and CRF. And bolt lock on all of them is actually a huge win in my book. But it’s hard to beat tikka for out of the box, no dicking around, all purpose hunting rifle. And my thinking is identical to Brads when it comes to recommend a set up for new hunters. Tikka just plain shoot. Despite having several Winchester and tikkas, I just always seem to grab the tikka when it comes down to it. My experience is they generally shoot just a bit better than the winnies I have, and that alone just gives me a bit more confidence. But, I having Shawn build me a kimber 280ai fast twist right now, and am gathering parts for a tikka 284 win.....so you can tell I still can’t make up my mind!

Well said.

I’ve never had to “find” a load for any Tikka I’ve ever had. They’re bullet whores.

Carrying a Tikka from Alaska to New Mexico, the only thing I had to "find" was my tag to notch it. Having said that, I still prefer 70's and Kimber.

I have a T3X in 6.5CM and same experience. It seems to shoot everything well and surprisingly with very little shift in impact, although I believe all the loads I've tried were all Hornady.

That's for sure, I have a T3x. It's a 7-08 Shoots everything really well.

I'd go with the model 70.