If you're not going to hunt african dangerous game with the rifle that you're considering buying, or
considering to have built, for some really big game elsewhere on Earth, why not take a hard look at
the .35 Wheelen Ackley Improved. On ammoguide.com it shows that the Whelen A.I. case capacity
is 0.1 grains MORE than the 9.3x62. PLUS, with both using a 250 grain bullet, the 9.3 has muzzle
energy of 3,471 and muzzle velocity 2500, and the Whelen A.I. has muzzle energy 4124 with
muzzle velocity 2725. The .35 W.A.I., at the microscopic 8/1000ths of an inch smaller diameter, is
indeed the better performer. And I'm confident brass acquisition will be easier with the W.A.I., and
it's an American round, so there's the patriotic "thing", at least for me anyway.
What do you all think about this comparison???

I’m a big fan of both.

Same bullet in each, I doubt any animal on earth would know the difference…

I think that the Whelen is likely running at much higher pressures to see a 225 fps velocity increase over the 9.3. Especially given that capacities are within 0.1 grain of each other. You're not comparing apples to apples.

In my dotage, it sure is nice not to have to fire-form brass. In addition, 9.3 x62 reloading dies are relatively cheap and available as is properly head-stamped brass.


Ya!

GWB

I am a big fan of the 35 Whelen, but I think this comparison is WAY OFF too. With a small disadvantage in case capacity, and a small advantage in bore diameter, any difference in velocity should be negligible in EQUAL BARRELS at EQUAL PRESSURE.

I like the Whelen for the ability to use reduced velocity loads with pistol bullets for plinking, and because it is American.. Others like the 9.3x62 for it's acceptance for African game.

Can't go wrong either way.

AI'ing the Whelen kills its "traditional American" cool factor.

I’m in agreement with WA here. I’ve got both, both with 22” barrels and they are so much the same cartridge and ability I’m not sure who’d be able to ever tell the difference.

If you are going to make the comparison at drastically unequal pressures , what’s the point ?

Sorry, too lazy to look it up, but I think JB said the Whelen was one of the worst rounds to AI due to the lack of shoulder in the first place.

For a one gun hunt the world chamber you can’t beat a 338 Win Mag. Components and ammo everywhere, hurls 180 and 200 grainers flat and faster than a 300 Win Mag, hurls 250, 275 and 300 grainers on the heels of a 375 H&H. I guess it’s just to ordinary to be cool. More versatile than a 9.2 or Whelen step child, especially by virtue of todays .33 bullet designs.

Aside from the ballistic comparison, you also asked what we thought.

Two things come to my mind. (1) The 9.3X62 is so common in the US now days, that I think it is probably easier to get that brass than 35 Whelen brass. I may be wrong about that, but they’re pretty close anyway, so I would not use that to decide upon either one in my selection of cartridge. And (2), I hunt Africa pretty often, and the 9.3x62 is legal for DG in many, if not most, African countries. The 35 caliber has VERY few countries that would allow it for DG, compared to the 9.3, therefore I’d choose the 9.3x62 over the 35WAI. Plus, if ammo is lost in transit, 9.3x62 will be MUCH easier to find in Africa than 35 Whelen, let alone the 35WAI.

Having said all of that, I want to state how much I love my 35 Whelen. I own about (13) of them. I also own many 9.3x62s. I have used both calibers in Africa, but only my 35 Whelen in America for both Elk and Moose. GREAT cartridge! In Africa, with my standard 35 Whelen, I have taken Leopard, Hartebeest, Sable, Sitatunga, Bushbuck, Lechwe, Oribi, and Warthog.

If I wanted to use a 35 caliber other than my standard Whelen and needed a little extra power, I’d simply use either my 358 NM, or my 358 STA, both of which will reach farther and hit harder than a 35 WAI.

However, I also say, buy/build whatever pleases you. This is the fun part of rifle/cartridge ownership!! And no one can tell you what is right for you. If you like the idea of a 35 WAI, GO FOR IT!!

I chose the 375 Whelen AI over either of those.

I went with the 9.3 just in case I ever to make to Africa

I think mines pretty cool, deer don’t though.

9.3x62 all the way for me. No contest.

and who was PO Ackley , a foreigner ?

Improving/wildcatting cartridges is American as apple pie ya commie

JMO……35 Whelen Imp. Lot’s of available brass, and a pretty good selection of .35 caliber bullets. And for some to consider…..38/.357 cal handgun bullets, less expensive than rifle bullets and expand at lower velocities, can be used in light loads for plinking or small big game use! Making the . 35 caliber rifles very versatile. memtb

Very nice!

I have used various .35 Whelen rifles for perhaps 30 years as my "bigger than deer" hunting rifles. Shot a couple dozen elk, some moose, caribou, etc. with them and have zero complaints or want or need of any extra power. I have mostly used 250 grain bullets at 2500 FPS muzzle velocity. The Ackley "Improved" version seems to me is solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
In the last 10 years I also have used a 9.3x62 and 9.3x74R. Only shot a few elk and bears with them, but they worked exactly as I would have experienced and expected of my .35 Whelen. No discernible difference. I also took the 9.3 to Namibia where it was greeted by my PH with a smile and knowing nod. Performance on Kudu, Gemsbok, and even a huge Giraffe was perfectly satisfactory. When the hunt was over I left the surplus ammo with my guide which was greatly appreciated. In Africa, also Europe, Asia Argentina, and to some extent Australia and New Zealand the 9.3s are standard cartridges. The Whelen is pretty much limited as a niche part of the USA market, with a little spill over into Canada.
For an international hunting cartridge, I would certainly choose the 9.3x62 over any .35 caliber, and especially over the wildcat "Improved' version.

Of course, as handloaders, we can make both safely excel above factory ammo. With today's gun powders, 2700 fps from 250s is possible within sane psi from each. I went looking for another .35 Whelen a dozen years ago and couldn't find even one! I came home with a 9.3 x 62 and have never looked back... it has replaced all my former medium bore rifles from .338 WM to the .375 H&H. The 9.3 X 62 really shines in the use of heavy bullets with the same powders used to make the .35 Whelen much better than traditional results from the AI.

In my 9.3 x 62 Mauser I use RL-17 exclusively for any bullet weight from 250gr to 320gr. From my 22.44" Tikka that's 2700 + fps from the 250gr AB, 2600 + fps from the 286gr NP and 2400 + from the 320gr Woodleigh. The honest consensus of experienced PHs who have used the 9.3 x 62 extensively on Africa's largest, is that they could discern no difference in results between the 9.3 x 62 and the .375 H&H, which it preceded by seven years.

About a month ago I purchased my third .35 Whelen - it's a single-shot with a 22" barrel and muzzle brake. I 'll be mostly loading 225gr AccuBonds or Partitions of the same weight. That's an advantage in N.A. that's lacking for my pet 9.3 x 62. A 225gr with excellent BCs of +.400 at 2800 - 2900 fps is good for anything here to moose size at +400 yards. That's great! But my 9.3 x 62 is good for a mature bull moose to 500 yards with the right scope and handloaded 286gr Partitions! As I see it, the .35 Whelen complements the 9.3 x 62 by using lighter than 250gr projectiles.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

I have a Whelen but I have noticed some pretty cheap .366 bullets for sale and available during the CCP virus supply chain disasters when 35 caliber bullets were hard to get.

CZ
I am amazed at the velocities you report for your 9.3-62. How long is your barrel?

Africa 9.3
NA Whelen

Given the choice between a standard 35 Whelen and a 9.3X62 I took the 9.3, but not because there is a lot it can do that the 35 Whelen can't. I like the 9.3 but have a very high level of respect for the 35 Whelen too.

However, the added pain in the rear of any AI shell is enough to make be choose something else. I have years of experience in making them and loading ammo for them professionally as a custom gunsmith, and in 50+ years I have never seen a single real advantage to ANY AI shell over what can be bough commercially, when we look at value.

Some argue about the longer brass life but when I look at the expense of fireforming and the price of custom dies and chamber reamers and compare that to a few extra bags of brass in a standard shells, the AIs come out way behind.

In my opinion the AI shooters all fall into 1 or 2 groups.


The first groups is made up of shooters that just love tinkering with shells and that's the only reason I can see to own one

The 2nd groups are those that want to be thought of as "real experts" and never learned the 1st graders story about the "Emperors New Cloths". They feel a need to be "special" and owning AIs makes them feel sophisticated.. So be it. It hurts no one, but it helps no one either and does nothing in the field any better then a similar commercial cartridge. A little more velocity seem to be 'god' to may, but having killed a LOT of game with ultra fast magnums and a lot with standard cartridges too, I can say with no hesitation that the small jump in velocity is of no real world value at all. None Zero. Nada Zip.

35 Whelan and 9.3 are cool as is any middlebore. I'd love to do one but I've got an 348 win Improved. Beside my 338's it's the closest I have to the 35 whelan. I just don't have the cool kid stuff.

If you are a handloader the Ai version of the 35 Whelen will certainly assist with reduced case prep. I have a couple of them and neither one has required case trimming after 5 or 6 heavy loads.
You wont see much velocity increase at all but the reducion in case trimming is a real benefit. The fact that it accepts std Whelen Cartriges and shoots them to almonst the exact same POI is another. If you handload, I would suggest the AI.

One of the best values of the medium bores is the 9.3x62. 286 grain prvi bullets and brass for the 9.3x62 are both cheaper than domestic components for the whelen.

I have never recovered one of the 286 grain prvi bullets from moose or caribou here in Alaska. Curious about this, I cut one in half. The copper jacket was almost twice as thick as a hornady interlock or speer hot cor. The deeply swaged double cannulure bit deep into the bullet. For these two reasons, they hold together very well.

They're also cheaper than hot cors and interlock 9.3 bullets.

With prvi components, powder and primers, it's less than $30 a box of 20.

This combined with a cheap jess rebore to 9.3x62, it is quite amazing what can be accomplished.

Interesting thread, older I get the more I lean towards not tearing out my hair over minute details and imagined differences. That is why I have both, had the 35 Whelen since 89 and picked up a used 550 in 9.3 awhile back so I would have no need to tear ny hair out. The point is simple you can have both so why justify 1 or the other . Been a long winter but the grass is greening..mb

IF you are going to Africa, avoid EVERYTHING with the suffix A.I. Come to think of it, any cartridge with that.

I chose the 375 Whelen AI. (I also have a 35 Whelen.)
I have a couple other 375’s and have molds for the 375.
For me the choice was easy. If I were to go to Africa and had to make the choice I’d go with the 9.3x62 because of availability and regulations. From what I’ve read the 9.3x62 has a great reputation.
But since I have a 375 H&H AI I wouldn’t have to make that decision.
I wouldn’t mind owning a 35 Whelen AI but at my age and having enough rifles in that range I’ll likely not own either a 9.3x62 or the 35 Whelen AI.

I own one of each and my measurements of my once-fired brass match the OP-quoted very slight powder capacity advantage to the Whelen AI when 250 grain bullets are seated to my 3.375" magazine length restriction in each case.
Which, from a potential velocity standpoint, is offset by the slightly larger cross-sectional area of the 9.3 bullet.
SAAMI max for the Whelen is 62K PSI. No SAAMI for the 9.3 but the CIP max is 57K PSI. Load them to the same pressure with the same weight bullet and same barrel length and they're peas in a pod.
My 35 WAI weighs 7.5 pounds and a 250 grain Partition at 2650 FPS (a bit below the max with 2000MR) is about the limit of what I do for fun from the bench. My 9.3x62 is over a pound heavier and is not at all unpleasant with a 250 grain Accubond at the same speed. I reckon both of these are right around 60K PSI (based on Mule Deer's 9.3x62 writings).
250 grain bullets are the heaviest I shoot in the WAI and the lightest I shoot in the 9.3. Last elk with the Whelen was a big bull with the 225 TSX. DRT with both shoulders taken out. Only elk with the 9.3 (just finished it last year) was and average cow through the heart (no bones) with the 250 AB and ran off a fair bit before dropping. I expect that had nothing but bullet placement been reversed, so would have the results.
These are both great, great cartridges and I agree with about all the points the other respondents have made about them.

Cheers,
Rex

Nothing compares to the 35 Whelen! OK just kidding but it's my favorite

I have both 35 Whelen and 35 Whelen Imp. and a 9.3 X 62 and like both but prefer the Std Whelen to the Improved, and think the 9.3 X 62 beats them all.

And, try to find decent 35 cal bullets anymore.

The 9.3 selection is pretty good. I got rid of my 35 Wh and went to the 9.3. I won't be going back. Inherent accuracy of the 9.3 is one reason.

Because I don't hand load, I would choose the 9.3x62. But if given a choice between it and a Whelen (with no A.I. suffix), I would choose the 35 instead. But only because I already have a 9.3x74r that I love & I like to have as much variety in my limited space as possible. Owning a .35 Whelen would be a really nice classic addition to my modest collection. So my choice would be based on purely non-technical reasons. Everything I hunt for would be unhappy to be shot with any of these rifles.

Plenty of shoulder. That said, make mine a 9,3.

I have both, a 9.3 Ruger African (non Lipsey model) and a Nosler Outfitter in 35 Whelen. The Ruger cloverleaf's 250 grain Nosler Accubonds as does the Outfitter with 200 grain Remington Core Lots. I haven't killed anything with either but that's going to change in the near future!

I will say the mediums like my x62 give very little meat damage while being incredibly destructive on the innards.

I have owned regular Whelan, The Ackley and the 9.3x62. The only problem I had with headspace was with the 9.3x62 ( same with the 404 Jeffery) which meant fireforming my cases to calm my OCD, ha. I never killed game with the 9.3x62, though owned three. I like the round, but may as well fireform the Ackley! I killed a wad of game with the 35 WAI, and my loads were more than likely 72K+, but in new fireformed brass. Never had an issue. I do not own either one right now.

I enjoyed messing with both rounds, but awhile back, I personally settled on the 338 win Mag for my Medium. Right now, I am looking at even replacing my use of a 300 Mag by using 175-200gr in the 338, and I have plenty of 225-282gr to mess with for heavies, but that's neither here nor there. I decided I'd rather save my money to put on hunts...at 70 ( and needing yet another low back surgery) I never know when I will have to slow way down....way down, ha. Right now I have the 338WM, a new Tikka 30-06 ( how can I NOT own a 30-06?) and having a 26" barreled 7x57 made up. Thats enough to keep me busy handloading/shooting and hunting for awhile. I love both the 35 WAI and the 9.3x62...and my pick? why the Ackley loaded to 72K+ in new fireformed brass, of course! lol

LMAO

I bought a bunch of those bullets from powder valley shoot very well. Also at the time nosler was selling 250 a-bombs seconds dirt cheap. The 9.3x62 is the easy answer especially the rebore from JES.

I would bet you shoot 100 animals with each and you couldn’t tell the difference

I see some touting the Whelen as a plinker and small game round with pistol bullets, saying that the 9.3X62 isn't, no pistol bullets for it.

Do your homework, Whelenuts.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/29128

9.3x62mm.



Why reinvent the wheel?




GR

I believe the best all-around bullet for the 9.3 x 62 could well be the 250gr AccuBond with a .493 BC. It shoots flat and retains enough energy for a bull moose at 500 yds.

Here is the data from my Tikka T3 Lite with a 570mm barrel (22.44"): +2700 fps from 70 grs of RL-17, Hornady brass, WLRM primers, 3.37" COL (restrained to that by the clip regardless of bullet used). 109% load density at ~64,000 psi (same as a .338 Win Mag. Tikka also makes a .338 Win Mag identical to mine in 9.3 x 62 except with a 24" barrel). That load consistently shoots into sub-1/2 moa. At 83 yds that bullet took out heart and lungs of a 6' bear with a blood trail a 2yr old could follow - for 20 yds.

Here's some data for that load: MV = 2714 fps/4090 ft-lbs// 100 yds = 2540 fps/3582 ft-lbs/+3.1"// 200 yds = 2373 fps = 3127 ft-lbs/+2.55"// 300 yds = 2212 fps/2717 ft-lbs/-4"// 400 yds = 2058 fps/2352 ft-lbs/-18"// 500 yds = 1910 fps/2026 ft-lbs./ -40" ( OVER a TON of energy at 500 yds!)

That's not a 300 yd rifle! And the 286gr Partition shows better results than that using 68 grs in Lapua cases at +2600 fps!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

My comment on AI'ing (which appeared in at least one of my books) did NOT say there wasn't enough shoulder. Instead there's so little shoulder in the standard .35 Whelen that "blowing it out" doesn't result in any meaningful gain in powder room. And yes, I've owned both the standard and AI .35 Whelens. Give me the standard any time....

I went with the Whelen because ever since I was a little boy I read about Col. T. Whelen and I dreamed of one day having use for a classic American beauty and an original “wildcat”. I’m a sentimental fool so it was easy for me. I don’t have any affinity for Europe so I’ll stay close to home with my Whelen. 😉

In keeping with the patriotic sentiments....if the donor is a Ruger, Winchester, Remington, etc. - make mine a Whelen

If you find a nice Mauser donor - 9.3x62

I also second the standard over the A.I. I have owned both. The A.I. gives a little more shoulder for positive headspace but the standard headspaces just fine and feeds like a greased trout.

I had a 700 cdl Whelen that show great but at some point I decided I didn't need anything between 30 cal and 375 and sold off my mid bores in an effort to simplify a bit. I also sold anything 270 or 25 cal. Since then I've picked up another 358 in a blr because I'm casting again and had another 270 wsm montana follow me home because you can't have too many montanas.

One day I'll probably end up with a 9,3x62 because I've liked them ever since I saw my first one in South Africa in 1993. Plus 9,3 bullets tend to have a better BC than 35s. I wanted a cz 550fs in 9,3 but didn't get around to it until they dried up. I have a 24" fluted stainless rem 700 30-06 barrel that came off a 700 Alaskan ti that I've thought about having rebored to 9,3 but I'd like it shorter and the flutes go out too far to cut much off. I could dig a 20" 9,3x62 with open sights in stainless synthetic.

Bb

Love the Whelen and the 9.3. I'd leave the 35 as is. If I really needed to step up I think I'd have to move to the 375 h&h or 375 ruger. However, nothing I currently hunt requires it. In our short lifespan, get what moves you! America!

I may take my .35 Whelen on my elk hunt this year. There are some areas where shots generally are inside 300, so I may take it on the days that I hunt those areas. A couple of areas can present longer shots, so I’ll likely take my .300 Wby those days.

I’d go whelen, improved ain’t worth the squeeze…

Go Whelen, about all you need is a 225 gr TSX some RL-15 and Remington cases.

I don’t feel under-gunned with these backing me up..

200gr Fusion, 250PSP Corelokt 250RNSP Corelokt and 280 Swift A-Frame

I don’t need my Whelen to have high BC’s or blazing speeds since it’s sole life is dedicated to doing the vast majority of its work under 100 yards and in reality more like under 50 yards…

Up close, down and dirty…

I also like to shoot a 200 to 250 gr in the Whelen. However, check out the ballistics of the Whelen with 180 gr at 2900fps......no slouch at range.

That's about my favorite load these days, the 200 TTSX at 2900 from my little Ruger.

I still haven't seen a huge difference in powder capacity at the same COALs but I have less experience loading for the 9.3 than the Whelen.

The 9.3's bullet selection under 250 grains is pretty limited and all the lighter 9.3 bullets are as aerodynamic as bricks, but from 250 up it's great and all factory rifles will stabilize the bullets.

The .35's bullet selection over 250 grains is pretty limited and if you have a Remington it probably won't stabilize them anyway, but the 35 has a great selection of fairly slick (for hunting bullets) under 250grains.

At the moment, you can find 9.3 brass (PPU, Norma, and Lapua all seem to be around) cheaper and more easily than Whelen brass but that might change in 6 months.

Talk to cz550 on the458 thread. He has worked up 250s over 2700 without undue pressure and that load bests the 338 Win Mag out to any sane distance. What’s not to love about that?

Sorta’ eliminates the need for a 338WM!

I have a bunch of 338WMs that I love, but that argument allows for a 9.3x62 to take its place. And that’s OK with me. My 338WMs have 24” barrels, are heavier than my 9.3s (bigger barrel contours), and hold more powder (more recoil) than my 9.3s. My 9.3s are legal for DG in the countries I hunt, but not so with my 338s. I have lately leaned towards my 404 Jeffery & 9.3x62 for my 2-rifle African battery, whereas I have also used the 338WM, 35 Whelen and 375 H&H with the 404 in the past. I think the 404/9.3 makes more sense these days. 430 gr. in 404, and 286/300 gr. in 9.3. YMMV.

I know that I’ll be carrying my Whelen instead of one of my .338’s for most stuff in the coming seasons but I still love the .338wm and it’s a red blooded American cartridge just like the Whelen…..

If I wasn’t so damn practical I’d have the 1954 Model 70 rebored by JES to 9.3 but I don’t gain anything over the Whelen, nothing useful anyway and I would have another cartridge to load for and oddball bullets to buy. A couple .338’s and a couple Whelen’s oughta do anything I need to do including Kodiak.

Aces: A 9.3 x 62 has a 5 shot magazine but a 338 WM only has a 3 shot magazine because of the belt.

It’s been a long time since I’ve needed a second shot. The number of cartridges in the magazine has no importance to me.

Keep mine a vanilla whelen, especially with the new 2000 mr loads.

You might reconsider your position under certain circumstances.

Bugger does not reconsider.

I like both but the 9.3x62 mm checks a lot of boxes and is a bit of an "easy" button.

At this point in my life after doing multiple different AI cartridges over the years I wouldn't do another; most are not worth the squeeze, the chrony opens your eyes.

I still have a Ruger M77RS 35 Whelen that I bought new in 1987/88 and it has been flawless in the field with 225 gr. Partitions, Sierra SBT's and 250 Speer and Hornady bullets. That being said, after I bought my CZ500 Lux in 2000 it sees very little time afield.

In fact, the 9.3x62mm has caused me to unload my 338 Win., 348 WCF, 375 H&H and 405 WCF. I don't think I have surrendered any capability due to 250 grain NAB, various 286 grain bullets (like the Oryx and NPT) and 320 grain Woodleigh's.

I don't think I will unload my 35's at the moment (35 Rem., 358 WCF and the Whelen); the hard red rubber recoil pad on the M77RS needs to be replaced, might make it kinder off of the bench.

Great brass, bullets and factory ammunition availability make the 9.3x62 mm an easy choice for me.

StarchedCover

I chose the .35 WAI as my safari gun for plains game. The rifle shot out from under the scout rail I had mounted to the rifle 9 months before I was to hop on the plane. I found a twice fired .375 Ruger Alaskan, so the .35WAI didn't make the trip.

I originally picked the AI for a little more powder space, but the reduced amount of trimming is why I keep it. I don't really chase the last few FPS anyway. If I shoot standard .35 Whelen ammo, OK by me. I just open the .30-06 Lake City brass to .35 caliber, and shoot the cartridges for practice to get them "fire formed". Seems to work pretty well.

Maybe I need to build a 9.3 - I have a few boxes of ammo for it already - sounds like a good reason! I have a Turk '38 Mauser that would accept the cartridge length fine. I was going to lengthen the chamber for 8mm-06, but maybe the real deal is to go to .366! Decisions, decisions...

I just got my .358 WIN bug re-awakened from another thread. A VZ-24 action would make a nice one of those. So many rifles, so little money!