Actions look similar.
Have handled a Bergara premier but not the remington so might not be close at all.
Curious.

Isn't the Bergara action a 700 clone? I.e., how could they *not* look similar?

Yeah Bergara rifles along Christensen are both Remington 700 clones (with improvements)....Hb

Yep

Well, let's get this party started. For the "M70 is superior" zealots; why isn't anyone else cloning it and selling the snot out of them?

Lol

🦫

Because the average American rifle buyer would rather shoot a Savage Axis or a 700 ADL with spray paint "bluing" and then spend the extra money on tactical garbage and Bone Collector hats at Wal-Mart?

I meant similar as in same ejector, extractor, etc. Maybe mfg.

Asking if someone who has seen both.

In other words is the new Remington a mimic of the Bergara.

Or why doesn’t Darcy just use an R700?

Things that make you go 🤔 …

Ifn ya asked Safariman he'd tell ya that the M70 is far superior to the M700 ... Simply because of the CRF "claw" y'know .. never mind the integrity of said action failing to hold pressures as well as the M700

You've watched lots of M70s blow up?

What are the Montanas everyone here scrambles after based on?

Probably the cost to manufacture has a lot to do with it.

Bingo.......the 70 action is a tad more complex, may take the 3D printer a bit longer to spit out.....

Time is $$.

If the quality of what Remington was putting out the last few years is going to be the baseline, this is the answer. Tons of plastic, bluing that rusted if you looked at it too hard, crummy safety.

Remington uses or used before the close hammer forged barrels. Most if not all barrels came out slightly bent and were never stress relieved. Talked with a smith who chucked up a flew in a lathe and said they were way out wack. But, I talked with another smith who said the new production rifle actions are hard to really improve upon i.e. action face and lugs. Said the tolerances were way tighter than say a "B" serial number. I like the old ones myself, but whatever.
As far as model 70s. I think the new Bacos are just better rifles all the way around. Steel floor metal, better bluing, better wood, heck I think they even tapped the actions with better pride. Their barrels break in great with little fouling, I think winchester makes a better rifle.
But with that being said, those mid 80s to early 90s remington bdls and classics are hard to beat. I think you would have to get a really good classic to equal a grade 1 sporter Baco.

We haven’t had a M70 vs M700 war in years now. Well done boys! Lets do this.

Haha one of the surest signs that most deer seasons are over.

That ain't no kidding!

😀😀

70s aren't cloned because they are way harder to manufacture and no more accurate. Most people don't care about reliability just the paint job and does it shoot good.

No, completely the reverse. The Bergara mimics the 700
Hard to mimic the latest entry with the one there first

Sure got a point there.

Go check out a new remington 700 cdl and hold it side by side to a new model 70 featherweight. Pretty easy to see which company has higher standards to fit an finish, bluing, ect.. but like I said earlier, those 80s and 90s 700s were top notch.

I Flippin laugh at my CA mesa. DUAL PLUNGER EJECTORS!🤣
and barely gets the case out of the action. What a pos.

I Flippin laugh at my CA mesa. DUAL PLUNGER EJECTORS!🤣
and barely gets the case out of the action. What a pos. My stock 700s and bergara ran laps around this dog in function and accuracy.

Dufur. It's not what I can Dufur you, but what you can Dufur me. Go rangers huh?

My vote is for the model 70. A much better rifle than the POS 700:




Find me a factory 700 that will print 3 shots into 3/4" at 400 yards.

The Model 70 is a nostalgic piece along with the Mausers.
The Model 700 along with its numerous clones own the modern bolt action market.

How often/regularly does the Model 70 do that?

I don’t know, but my M700 Classic .35 Whelen will cut cloverleafs at 100 yards, holes touching, with 225 gr TBBC loads. Never tried to shoot paper at 400 yards. Got a 1966 M700 ADL that’ll do it too.

My M70 Featherweight 7x57 shore is purty though….

Nothing says Gaaayyy like a M700 in 270., FFS. totally screams AIDS.

I'm not so sure about that anymore, if we're talking regular people (not rifle looneys) and volume of sales. The 700 opened the door for even cheaper plastic rifles to replace itself. Axis, RAR, etc.

But for pure quality, the M70 wins in a landslide.

Why did you stop a 3 shots why not 5 or 10……….

Were you aiming at the center of the orange?

I remember the argument that round receivers would split the stocks and the flat bottom receivers would not. Proof that the 70’s were superior!

I’m an early 700 fan. But I’ve had or still have pre-64 70’s, push feed 70’s, and Classic 70’s. I like 70’s too.

I’ve owned quite a few 77’s, hoping that I’d like one. They all went down the road, accuracy and/or stock fit being the issues.

I’ve owned only one Savage bolt - an Axis. I’d call that a truck gun or a rifle I’d keep in the barn in case a rabid skunk appeared. I liked that Axis better than the 77’s, but it went down the road too.

As far as Springfields vs. Mausers go; the Springfields rarely are re-barreled and the Mausers are most often re-barreled. Explain that phenomena, Mauser lovers.

Controlled feeding actions means, harder to rechamber for a different shaped cartridge. That’s about the only difference for me. They work equally well in the field. I’ve had failed to extract more with Mausers than any other, maybe due to my reloads though. I don’t hot rod reloads any more and that’s not been an issue for a long time.

BSA, is that the rifle you will shoot in the LRVS match on Saturday?

Since this is the hunting rifles forum, not the paper punching forum and you like pics, which rifle had to be switched out right before a hunt because of a bolt handle that came loose?

Keep trying, you might fool a few.

I've had to shell it out to get a new model 700 to shoot like my model 70. Barrel, stock, bedding, whatever. Give me a baco 70, every time. Even the extreme weathers with that stupid muzzlebreak is a better rifle than anything the rem custom shop can put out now days. And they are 1200 buck to boot.

Nice pictures SLM. Looks a lot like the Southern AZ country I hunt in.

Point me in the right direction, as they're difficult to find.

Looks like you spooked the hole.........

What does it say about a production rifle when you have 14 pages of aftermarket fixes and hacks in Brownells Catalog? The true cost of owning a 700, making it perform like it should have from the get-go, is buying all the aftermarket parts and pieces. PT&G I guess is making bolts...apparently with handles that stay on, that is quite a marketing concept. Judging from what is NOT in Brownells for 700's...I will readily admit that the ejector plunger, spring and pin are darn good, but everything else has a cornucopia of replacement pieces...so the market must be pretty brisk.

Same could be said for the 870, Mossberg 500 or 1911.


Same for trucks, cars and Harley Davidsons, a lot of them being modified as well.

Most 700s probably don't need anything but as humans we can't keep our dick skinners off of things and have to modify everything.

This ^^^
Remington struck gold in 1948 when they developed a receiver that could be machined on a lathe instead of on a mill.
And now there are more in the wild than any other, hence the parts availability.

You are saying it's mostly about sheer numbers out in consumer hands? Naw, I don't really buy into that, there are a fair number of model 70's out there...is there a cottage industry for model 70 trigger replacements? Extractors and businesses up grading them? In my experience, most of the time people replace bbls on a mod 70 is for changing cartridge. There are some great 700 bbls, but there must be a lot of dogs too, every major maker has a 700 pre-fit. Entire bolt assy for 700, 300 bucks, if they had any in stock. Then you need a bolt knob too. The 700 was designed to be built with a minimum of machine tool operations, manufactured easily, sold cheaply to the mass market...it's up to the consumer to make it perform. IMO.
I give up a fair amount of accuracy, add some weight, but for practical hunting, reliability, make mine Mauser. Every major maker has had to pay Mauser patent infringement fines, Springfield '03, Winchester 54/70, Enfield P14, 1917. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Production of ~6 million R700 vs ~ 2 million M70 best I can find.

Because there is not a plethora of aftermarket support for Mausers??

Not nearly as many Model 70s out there as there are 700s.

As far as 700 bolt handles coming off, something tells me it is far less than 1%.

"Perform"....I had an early 80's 700 adl in 30 06 that would shoot 6-7 shots into 1 ragged hole @ 100 yds bone stock, plenty of performance in my book!

Ok, I've been Shooting this since 1985,,,,, with a few up-grades, and it's still getting it done here in Alaska in 2023....
Lj

Hard to believe a 700 puts those kind of groups on the board.............

There are Mauser aftermarket pieces out there, mostly cosmetic. I have strong opinions on this...every aftermarket Mauser( and Mauser type) part out there is a step down in reliability!
Most of the 700's out there will shoot rings around my Rem 30's, Mod 70's and multitude of Mausers, no question. If you are hunting in remote environment in bad weather (I don't call a rainstorm bad) and have spent a lot of money on your hunt...would you feel comfortable with your bone stock 700? Given the known problems of inaccessible uncleanable trigger group..ice or dust under the extractor C clip...bolt handle (ok,1%) coming off when bolt is iced up? 700's are not meant to be field stripped. A Mauser can be field stripped by a drunk, in the middle of the night.
Hunt your 700's in moderate climes, fairly clean environments, you'll have an accurate reliable rifle. Push the envelope, you will discover it's weaknesses.

Well, It does, and all day long,,, if needed, But,,,,, that's Not a Factory Bbl Rifling job,,,, read the attachment build notes above.....
Lj in Alaska....

You don’t have to convince me!

Ok, fair enough, but I thought I'd share this bit of information with you, since I see you call yourself an "Ackleyfan",, see my attachment, this is/was my Granddad's, my Father's and then my GunSmith, or as I was corrected one day, when Bob said he was a "Gunmaker" and as I found out later he was one of the Founding Members of the Gun Makers Guild of America, I also met P.O. at Bob's Shop in the mid-70's,,,, Dam, I miss those times......
Lj

The Mauser is a superior design to both the model 70 and the model 700 when it comes to rugged and reliable. That said I don't presently own a model 70 and my one model 700 is a paper puncher that does that nicely. My usual hunting rifles when I am not playing with leverguns or singleshots are Mauser actioned rifles with a choice of two Springfield 03A3's for backup. My varmint rifle is a Remington model 7 sometimes or otherwise a Savage 110. I could get rid of all the rifles not Mausers or Springfields except the Model Seven and do just fine.

Because the M70 is a clone itself...

I’d like to own a model 70 one of these days the safety has always put me off them.

The first Remington model 700 I owned in 1977 wouldn’t extract & was replaced with a model 77 that still is extremely accurate & reliable. My 22-250 700 SPS isn’t the prettiest rifle in the rack but shoots so well it’s a little boring.

I had a couple of Axis but don’t think I’d buy another one & didn’t care for the RAR I had in 30-06.

When younger hunters ask me what I recommend these days neither rifle action is American. I like the Tikka ant the Weatherby vanguard made by Howa better than Remington or Winchester. Both guarantee 1” accuracy or better as do a few rifles.

Using the wrong lubricant in extreme cold can cause any action to gum up & get a click instead of a bang.

Most Hunters like the idea of great bang for the buck & aren’t collecting pieces of art to be passed down for generations.

Like the new vanguard by weatherby. Bought one for son. Has a two stage trigger. Actually really like it. Super accurate with about anything we've tried. I'd say it's pretty close to a model 700 as anything. Even takes 700 bases.

I have, and own both 700's and 70's.

Have never had a 70 fail me hunting/shooting. Have had 700's break extractors and action lock up.

Got the extractor issue fixed, and the trigger/bolt lock up issue resolved with aftermarket trigger.

When I am on a more involved hunt, say Africa, AK, out of state or 7+day hunting camp. My Model 70 classics's get the nod.

Have everything I need, and do not see me ever purchasing another 700. But if a classic catches my eye, will never say never.

[
What exactly is hard to believe about it? I’ve had 700’s from .223 up to 300 RUM and shot many others plus one 700 in 338 Win Mag. I HAVE NEVER OWNED OR SHOT A MODEL 700 that wouldn’t shoot groups like that. Actually if I was just testing loads at 100 yards from a bench if shoot a group bigger much bigger than that I’m start trying to figure out what went wrong. Either I didn’t use proper fundamentals or something is probably loose.
I will say 99% of the ammo has been handloads.
The one model 70 I had shot that good with the first load I tried shooting 140 AB’s. I have a model 70 now that I will be surprised if it doesn’t shoot that well.
If a new production bolt action doesn’t shoot like that with handloads I’m ready to toss it in the river.

That was a heavy dose of sarcasm I was dishing out...........

My bad ha.

The bergara is a clone of the original 700. It does have a different extractor set up and some other changes.

The new remington "appears" like it will have same changes. That is why I'm wondering if the actions might be made in the same place. Wish both would use an M16 style extractor.

By the way, I have both Remmies and Winnies.

Do you wear Huggies?

Not yet, but at my age, I might need them any time now.

The safety is why I like model 70's slightly better than the 700, it locks the firing pin not the trigger group. Far better to me.

Dependsies?

I am a huge 700 fan and agree that I have always got very good accuracy from mine. I will admit, mine have been tuned by bedding into good stocks, free floating the barrels, adjusting or replacing the triggers etc. Nothing that's very hard to do and well worth the results. I was just working with a 700 in 7mm-08 recently. Shooting 140gr Nosler Ballistic Tips at 2850fps in a 24" barrel consistently into 1/2". Although that is exceptional, all of my 700s have been under 1".

The new Remington improvements consist of adding an "A" between the "RR"" serial number pre-fix letters.

4,5,6,7,A,B,C,D,E,F,G,S,TT,RR pre-fix serial numbers are now "RAR" pre-fix serial numbered w/no suffix letter as per RR's.

Same "short cam" bolt handle that was introduced in 2006 along w/ the XMark/Pro MIM'd trigger groups.
Same snap in .378",473" breech face & riveted .532" breech face extractors.

Well, a tube steel action allows for a rifle that is less expensive to make and sell.

And that wonderful trigger that gave rise to 5 additional manufacturers of triggers to replace the original trigger. Oh, did we mention Bankruptcy???

I have a Fieldcraft, a couple of tarted-up Howa Minis, a Baco M70, and three commercial 98s. Mostly I hunt the light ones, but the ones that are satisfying to own and shoot are the 98s, along with a couple of Browning 1885 clones. The mechanisms fascinate me, and the quality of the steel and machining make them a pleasure to operate. That M70 is very nicely done, but that pieced-together bolt is annoying. I’d gladly pay a good bit more for one built like the originals. My pre-64, now owned by my son, had that same feel as the 98s, even though as you say, it’s not quite as good in other ways, and it was a pleasure to hunt with, all 9 1/2 pounds of it.

Another favorite that I don’t currently own is the two-lug Sako. Can’t find anything to fault with those, except the current prices for nice ones. Possibly the finest factory offering ever.

Pard....

You must have got a real turd.Just bought one chambered in 7-08 last month. Last trip to the range it shot 6 groups consecutively under 1/2 moa (3 shot). Probably the most accurate factory rifle I've ever bought.