Do you think the 300 winny is the new standard.I seem to see more fellas packing a 300 win over a 30-06 in the field nowadays.Just a observation on how popular the win mag is.

New Standard
Agree or disagree?

Lets see some actual data on new gun sales or die sales.

Did you see what Remington is trying to sell ammo wise on the 300 RUM?

"Power Level Ammunition�
One gun. One chambering. The ballistic characteristics of three cartridges."

Remington Power Level

To be frank I consider the 300 WM to be snake bit in factory rifles. See the Nosler manual for cautions on the cartridge.

I don't know anyone that hunts with one, so I would say nope....

Among my friends, clients and hunting aquantances I see about a 33%/33%/33% split between the 300Win, 7mmRemMag and the 30/06 as far as non dangerous American game and plains game in Africa goes. I don't know if it is the new 'standard' or not but I think it is pretty close. It does look to me like a higher perscentage of hunters are taking a medium magnum of some type than a 30/06.

I bought my first 300 Win. Mag in 1980, but I didn't use it all that much back then. At the time, the 7mm Rem. Mag., at least in our part of the country, was the standard, widely-used belted magnum chambering. As time went on, I started to get more interested in the 300 Win. Mag., and had my first serious rifle in that caliber built in early 1994. It's been my favorite all-around hunting cartridge ever since.

Over the years, the 300 Win. Mag. has surely emerged, and in fact a few years ago RCBS annnounced that the 300 Win. Mag. was now their biggest selling belted-magnum (in terms of reloading die sales) that they kept inventory of, supplanting the 7mm Rem. Mag. for the number one spot.

I also know that you see rifles in 300 Win. Mag. in hunting camps all over the world, and it has truly become a world-standard, international hunting cartridge. It is widely-used and respected, seemingly everywhere.

If I recall, Charlie Sisk stated that he built more rifles in 300 Win. Mag. than he did anything else, and by a considerable margin. This also is in tune with what I've heard from other custom riflesmiths who are building true hunting rifles for serious hunters, in that the 300 Win. Mag is one of their most asked-for chamberings.

AD

disagree

Disagree.

Seems like everyone and their grandma here in Colorado is packing the 300WSM. Only person I know of that owns a 300 Winny is me.

Locally in SW PA it seems to change every couple of years.

300 WM does seem to be very popular lately.

300 win is very popular here 30-06 has died off in popularity and can be tough to trade.Like the 7mm rem mag you can hardly get rid of one around my area

Not enough advantage over the .30-06 to make up for less mag capacity and greater recoil, and you need a longer barrel to get the full benefit anyway. If you need more than a .30-06, you should probably jump up to a .338 win Mag.

The people I see using the .300 Win Mag are usually city folks who think they need it to kill a deer.

disagree.

I think that's accurate around here also..

While I guided, most of my clients had a .300 mag. That said, most of my clients were from east of the Mississippi and south of the mason/dixon. Does that mean they are popular with the confederacy? I dunno. Trouble was, most of them couldn't hit anything w/ them. Most of my peers around here hunt everything w/ .270's or .25/06's, though WSM's are growing steadily.

Tis true IME...the "Magnum Mentality" is alive and well in these parts of Alabama. The 300WM is way more than needed for Alabama WT deer, even if you want it to do extremely long range work. IMO the 7mmRM is even "over gunned" here.

In order of popularity around here (from what I see)

30-06
7mm RM & 300 Win
243
270
all others

I like the .300WM, but I don't see a ton of advantage over the 30-06 and 7mm RM, both of which are easier to shoot in comparable rifles. With the best bullets, the advantage grows even smaller. I also have known people scared to death of their .300's as well as those who shot them well.

When I first started to pack a 300 win 15 years or so ago it was very seldom I met another in the field with one.Lots of 270 30-06 308 and the 303 Brit was a fairly common sight.

I'm in northern B.C and the local gunshop told me a couple of months back they sell 5 Win mags to 1 WSM.Sounds right too.I've only ever seen 2 300 WSM's while in the woods.I reckon different parts of North America dictate sale's results.Maybe in Montana it's 5 to 1 for the WSM don't know?

Just more obsevations

338 win, 35 whelen and 300 win are the most popular amoung my friends with 358 win and 45/70 close behind

"Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:37 AM
To: rcbs tech
Subject: rcbs.com - Ask the Expert Form

ATK Ammunition Group
605 Oro Dam Blvd, Oroville CA, 95965
(800) 533-5000 www.rcbs.com

2004 TOP 50 DIE SETS
(IN DECENDING ORDER)

1 .30-06 SPRINGFIELD
2 .22-250 REMINGTON
3 .270 WINCHESTER
4 .45 ACP / G.A.P.
5 .300 WINCHESTER SHORT MAGNUM
6 7MM REMINGTON MAGNUM
7 .44 MAGNUM / .44 SPECIAL
8 .357 MAGNUM / .38 SPECIAL - ROLL CRIMP
9 .223 REMINGTON
10 .308 WINCHESTER
11 .204 RUGER
12 .243 WINCHESTER
13 .500 S&W
14 .270 WINCHESTER SHORT MAGNUM
15 .45-70 US GOVERNMENT
16 .300 WINCHESTER MAGNUM
17 .40 S&W / 10MM
18 9MM LUGER
19 .45 COLT
20 .30-30 WCF
21 7MM-08 REMINGTON
22 .223 WINCHESTER SUPER SHORT MAGNUM
23 .300 REMINGTON ULTRA MAGNUM
24 .308 WINCHESTER
25 .25-06
26 8 X 57 MAUSER
27 6.5 X 55 SWEDISH MAUSER
28 .222 REMINGTON
29 .338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM
30 .300 WEATHERBY MAGNUM
31 .243 WINCHESTER SUPER SHORT MAGNUM
32 .22 HORNET
33 .357 MAGNUM / 38 SPECIAL - TAPER CRIMP
34 7MM WINCHESTER SHORT MAGNUM
35 .375 H&H MAGNUM
36 7 X 57 MAUSER
37 .260 REMINGTON
38 7.62 X 54R RUSSIAN
39 .25 WINCHESTER SUPER SHORT MAGNUM
40 .220 SWIFT
41 .257 WEATHERBY MAGNUM
42 .300 REMINGTON SHORT ACTION ULTRA MAGNUM
43 .454 CASULL
44 7MM REMINGTON ULTRA MAGNUM
45 .257 ROBERTS
46 .17 REMINGTON
47 .41 MAGNUM
48 9.3MM X 62 MAUSER
49 .444 MARLIN
50 7.62MM X 39 - .308 / 311 RUSSIAN"

I buy Redding.

Die sale's are one componet remember there's lots of folk who don't reload...Wondering the results of factory ammo sales.I can see 30-06 270 being the kings with 7 Rem and 300 Win taking top spot for belted magnums.

Disagree.

Thanks for the die sales list. Makes perfect sense, especially back in 2004. I would have to guess that the WSM's (270 and 300 anyway) might have moved up the ladder a bit in the last 3+ years.

Just an observation. From the results here the trend seems to be that a lot of guided hunters use a 300 Win. and the locals tend to use something else.

Personally, I don't know anyone who shoots 300 Win. in a "go-to" hunting rifle.

I dont know if 300 winny is the standard but it is the BEST

Disagree.

I like to lurk near the gun counter sometimes and listen out of the corner of my ear to the conversation that takes place between gun buyers and gun sellers. I think the majority of gun sales are some form of the WSM. Guys that already have a lot of rifles are buying them because they don't own one yet, and buyers new to the sport are buying them because of all they see/hear about them. Plus sellers are happy to push them, because "longer range and more killing power" makes their job that much easier.

Most of the time when I see a serious buyer thinking it over hard, he's got a 300WSM, 270WSM, 325WSM, or 7mm Rem Mag in his hands. But that's not to say that I think any of those chamberings are a bad choice. Like I say, it's just what I see getting handled at the gun counter.

Seems like everyone and their dog around here uses the 7mm Rem Mag. See some 30-06's, a couple .300 Win's, and a few 25-06's as well...

The 300 wsm makes no sense to me it doesn't match the performance of the 300 win, and it's a little ahead of the 30-06. I would just take a 30-06 rather than go with a 300wsm.The 300 win, 338 win 300 ultra are very poular in my area.It seems alot of the 300 wsm guys have bought into the hype then when they chronograph them and get the real scoop they want to sell or trade them around here.. 180 gr and 200 gr bullets fly flatter and hit harder out of the 300 win than they do in the wsm. I see this as a advantage when hunting elk,bear moose, and often at extended ranges.

The longer barrel thing gets thrown around a lot, but the truth is even with a 24" barrel a 300 winny has around 300 fps advantage over a -06 in factory loads.
I prefer my 300 Winny's to have 24" tubes.

What are you talking about? I have Nosler 4,5 in front of me and cant for the life of me find what your referring to?

I feel the same way.

That .308 doesn't make any sense to me as it doesn't match the performance of the .30-06 and is just a little ahead of the .300 Savage.

What's that law in geometry? For every point A and B, there is a midpoint C.

Heck, we haven't even begun to split these hairs minutely enough, although I hear T/C just cut one.

Uh, I mean, they split the hair a little finer...

I think we all spend too much time picking stuff apart that dont need picked!

Open your manual to the page on the 300 Winchester Magnum. Now look at the bottom of the page. Its under "Technical Information".

I dunno about .300 WM becoming more popular than the .30-06, but I disagree that the .300 WM is becoming the "standard."

Local Deer/Elk/BlackBear hunters use: 30-06, 270, 300 Winny, 7mm Remington (standard) magnum.

The 30-06 is king in sales if'n you include the chain store sales. Then 300, 7mm, and 270, are next. Then the 30/30 and 243.

Then . . . . . . everything else.

Oh, and 30-06 and 30/30 ammo are the big sellers. There are still oodles of 30/30s out there.

BMT

FWIW:

The Reloading Dies for sale at local Bi-Marts:

223, 22-250, 243, 270, 7mm Rem Mag, 30-06, 300 Win, 338 Win, 9mm, 38/357, 45 ACP, 44 Magnum. That covers the whole enchilada, both as to what they sell, and what a guy really needs.

BMT

Of Course, that is where is was designed to fit . . . .

BMT

Good Grief.

Here's what you're calling a "caution:"

"We do not recommend seating any of our .30 caliber spitzer bullets to the 3.340" O.A.L. as the bullet will be seated too deep in the case."

GASP!

That tidbit is thrown around constantly as if it's some sort of unsafe practice. The only reason that could remotely be confused as a caution is if the deep-seated bullets won't allow enough powder to achieve max velocities. Certainly the case with some powders but not with all.

Course you could caution us about the evils of belted cases...

out of the last 27 rifles i worked on (new barrels,rechamber,accurizing) 19 have been 300 win mag, 4 338 mag,2 280 rem, 1 06, 1 243.. i have been thru the whole line of 300's and i really like the 300 win mag in a 7 1/2 lb gun,

I have a 300 Winnie, and it's a great rifle. If the rifle I bought had been chambered for 30-06 with the same bells and whistles, I would have that one instead. Having said that, my winnie is a real tack driver, and a real game killer. Never shot more than one round per head of game. I practice lots, though, and I use premium handloads, so the edge is usually on my side.

Heck, the 30-06 kicks too hard for me!

I think it was 1984 when I got my first 300 Win. Mag. I was 13 years old. I remember steadying myself for the very first shot and expecting a tremendous jolt; afterall, everyone said that the 300 kicks real hard. I was surprised to find that the rifle didn't kick that bad and I still don't understand why people consider it a heavy-recoiling cartridge. Anyway, count me as one who really likes it.

As far as being the standard. Hmm, the 30/06 still wears the crown in these parts.

Landrum

The point was made by several here that a 30/06 is hard to trade off or sell. I do a fair bit of gun show buying and selling with the occasional swap thrown in. While it si a great cartridge I HATE getting one on my table as I will usually have to pack it around to a lot of shows before it sells unless I practically give it away. Maybe most who want one have one? 300 MAgs of various monikers sell much more readily for what that is worth.

Disagree. I only know one guy who owns one. It is his favorite deer rifle, but he is still the only one.

Are you kidding me? Your going to obsess on a seating depth recommendations?
My current 300 winny has a 3.9" wyatts box. My previous 300 winny I installed a 300 Weatherby follower and mag box and seated bullets further out than SAMMI spec as well.
Now, to beat you to the punch. I know your going to bring head spacing on the belt up. If you want your Winny to head space on the shoulder run the cases through a 8mm rem mag FL die, then neck them back down just enough that the bolt closes. Fireform and you have cases that space on the shoulder.

Hey Savage, just so you know, I seat 180 gr. Nosler Partition Spitzers to an OAL of 3.410", the 180 gr. Nosler Partition Protected Point to and OAL of 3.350", and the 180 gr. Hornady Interlock to an OAL of 3.360" in my #1 custom Model 70 300 Win. Mag. Some 2,000 rounds and over 70 big game animals in the salt with that one rifle since 2001, and I've yet to see any evidence of bullet setback, and no apparent problems that I can detect as far as that horrific, awful belt is concerned.

Come to think of it, I've never experienced any problems in reloading, shooting, or hunting with any of the 300 Win. Mag. rifles I've owned over lo these many years (and I've owned a bunch of 'em), in spite of your little ongoing digs against this cartridge. I must be doing somehting wrong I guess, huh?????

Oh and, just so you know, the 300 WSM that you're so hot on has a neck length that's exactly .0339" longer than the neck of the 300 Win. Mag. which you seem to hate so very much. NOW, Bright Boy, if you think that .0339" difference in neck length is some big, monumental deal, I suggest that you spend the rest of your life doing something REALLY useful and figure out, for once and for all, how many angels really CAN dance on the head of a pin.

Or better yet, restrict your comment so something that you have some actual, honest experience with, because clearly the 300 Win. Mag. isn't one of them.

Fortunately, we live in a world in which ignorance, inexperience, and idle speculation cannot rule..........at least not for long!

AD

.300 Win mag is popular here in Alaska. But so are .338 and .300WSM/.325WSM

Youper and I live in the exact same town and in my group of friends alone there are two 7mm ultras, a 300 ultra, two win mags and 3 weatherby mags.

Nope: Personaly, I like the '06. It's good gold standard to go by.
BT

I forgot to add one 300 wsm as well. The black sheep of the bunch,lol.

Did you ever have a pre 64 M70 in 300 WM? If you did what was the magazine box length?

In the past I read that you used the Protected Point Partition? Is that true?

The 300 WM's neck length would not be such a problem with a long box. Did you read the Nosler caution? The WSM's don't have necks that are all that long but the mag. boxes are.

Allen,

If we all had your gunsmith our headspace would be optimum and the magazine box and bolt throws would be just right. Such is not the case with many production rifles and thus the cautions in Nosler #4 and #5 for the 300 WM.

Neck length like headpsace is simply not a issue. But, like I said before if it really ticks you off throw a 300 weatherby follower and box in your model 70 or get a Wyatts mag box. Headpsacing on the shoulder can be achieved by using the procedure I described earlier.

This brings up an interesting point and I think STW is on to something here.I've been to a lot of central Canada deer camps the las few years and without a doubt,amongst TRAVELING HUNTERS the two most commonly encountered calibers are the 300 Win Mag and the 7mm RemMag.Ironically,and contrary to what sales figures and popularity charts say,I DO NOT see a lot of 30/06's or 270's.The general attitude amongst some of the guides is that the 270 is "too small" for their "big deer"(!) and the 30/06 does not shoot flat enough. On many occaisions, I have had the only 270 in camp.These same guides felt that something with even more horsepower than the 300 WM is even better.See the same thing in mule deer and elk camps. There is no doubt that the 300 WM is a very popular cartridge among guys that travel to hunt,although my view is that,in the hands of many hunters I see lugging one around, its' advantages are more imagined than real...

I can sympathize with the traveling hunter taking a .300 along. If I have a couple grand tied up in a big hunt and I have 2 or 3 rifles I like and am comfortable shooting, I am taking the baddest of the bunch. Why not?

One thing about the 300 WIN from Africa to Alberta Wally World to the small gas station a guy can usually find a box of ammo.Also the same for 30-06 it's everywhere.

I've tried to find 300 Roy ammo in small towns in northern B.C and it a tough search.A fellow I guided came to camp with one bag short.Of course it was his 300 WBY ammo.If he was shooting a 300 Win mag their was 5 in camp I believe all problems would of been solved.

What I meant as new standard was really just a tribute to how popular this belted magnum is.

STW: Point is well taken; I agree,it's very popular.

JPro: You should,of course,take what you're comfortable with and shoot well.

Don't know if the 300winnie is the new standard or not.

I do think that with so much internet chat about "bigger and better" everything, the '06 is seen as just not enough by lots of folks. Much the same way that the lowly .270 tain't enough to kill elk anymore....

Just the same....I shoot the winnie. Never owned an '06, but not because it isn't enough.

Disagree

I see more of everything these days.

Straw poll around here:
2 - 270
1 - 280
1 - 284
1 - 7mm
1 - 303
2 - 300wsm
2 - 300wm
1 - 300 savage
2 - 300 Weatherby
1 - 308
3 - 3006
2 - 338
1 - 375

If'n it ain't a big bear, my 708 with a tsx will kill it. Have had many 300's and now own one. Don't like the big bang anymore. Don't like the recoil and loudness of the wsm's either. Seems to me the "regular" cartridges kill just as dead. Think about it, there are really only a few common bullets in use, 277, 284, 308. There are a few inbetween choices, but these are the most popular. Only difference is the size of the brass cylinders holding the powder. Like was earlier said, at some point in flight, every 300 becomes a lesser round.

Agree.......

Agree.

Disagree

I like the 300 Winny. I have had two and both were very accurate and easy to load for.

I don't have one right now, only becasue my 30-06 shoots 168 grain TSXs at 2980 fps in an 8lb w/scope rifle. I have no clue why my 30-06 shoots like it does, but it kind of makes it hard to justify a 300 Win.

I don't know if the 300 Win is the new standard for everything, but if we want to consider what the standard all-around belted mag is for deer to elk, then the 300 Winny probably fits.

What load, and what barrel length are you using?Just curious cause I get 2940 or so from my 22" M70 with 165's.

What I think won't change the facts, and I have no idea what the facts are.

That said, I started out with a 7mm Rem Mag in '82 and have had a .300 WM itch ever since. Scratched that itch about three years ago. Took my elk with it last fall.

Over the years I have seen a lot of .300WM's in the field (Colorado) and have come to think of it as probably the best all-around .30 for Colorado when antelope to elk are on the menu.

I now have a .30-30, .308 and .30-06 and will be using all of them to hunt with, but the .300WM is king when it comes to flat shooting (at least among my loads).

Everyone I know who hunts has a .300 Win mag but they also have a 30-06 as well. Most seem to have worked through the short magnum craze and I really don't see very many of them any more.

Bob,

I just saw this post. I have a 24" barrel and am using H4350. PM me and I'll tell you the load. I don't think a 24" barreled 30-06 should normally shoot 168s TSX's at 2980, but that is what my Oehler tells me and I see no signs of pressure. This a a Rem 700 I assembled myself; pieced togther form a bunch of spare parts. The barrel is a new SS takeoff barrel, the bolt just barely closes on a go gauge, and the throat is very long. However, it all seems to work.............

I bought a beautiful Ruger M77RS round top 300 Win mag at a show and sold it to my brother in law. He used a 270 with 130 grain core lockts for years but migrated to the 30 caliber 180 grain camp by observing the performance of my rifles. He is amazed at the animal's reaction to being hit with the 300. It tips them over for him.

New standard? Who knows? Who cares? I use what I like and what works for me and don't pay much attention to what others think. Right now I'm in love with my 7x57 and I hope to fall in love with my new 6.5x55. Which ever caliber I use, you can bet I won't be shooting lightweight lightly-constructed bullets that seem to be all the rage.
_

Around these parts, or at least the guys I hunt with, the 270 and 25-06 are king. I've never owned a 30-06 myself. I alternate between my 270 and 300win. I'm beginning to prefer the winnie more even on these little deer around here. You never know when a wild hog is going to step out and it's good to have a little more punch.

Yep...seems that way in Alberta....all good choices, personally I'm a 30-06 fan.....need to get at building another one after the 7-08 is done. Pretty hard to beat IMO....

Interesting thread. I, like others, don't know about it becoming a new standard, but it is a cinch it will always be with us. As much as I love the 30-06 I will be the first to admit the 300 WM is like a 30-06 on steriods and always will be. Besides being a powerful 30 caliber it has proven to be highly accurate also on the shooting range. Pretty tough to find fault with that.


Although I don't presently own one I have owned a couple in the past and both were superb rifles especially with bullets of 180 and 200 grains. While the 300 WM is certainly not always needed it can almost always be said it is not a mistake to carry one while hunting anything in North America. Few other calibers can make that claim and still be as popular as the 300 WM is.

Around here, western pa. I see more 270's than anything else. Disagree.

Among those over 30 years old, the 30-06 and 270 reign around here. Under that age, the 300 Winnies in either long or short.

For everyone when they just want to get a deer easily, 243 with an occasional 22-250.

Disagree

where I hunt in GA with 14 other guys, 1 browning Abolt 300wsm, 1 Savage 7mm remmag, the rest are Ruger, Remington, Browning, winchester 30-06's, + 1 Weatherby MarkV 30-06. One guy has a browing 300WM and he used it one time to comment it don't kill no better than my 30-06...most shots are under 50 yards..one guy killed 5 feral pigs with 5 shots from a left handed Ruger 30-06 in one 30 second period, so in North Georgia we disagree.

Agree

I hope not. All the .300 mags have more recoil and muzzle blast than the .30-06 but no real improvement of results on game.

I would agree when shooting down skinny South Texas senderos where the range is never more than about 250yds and the deer weigh no more than 125 pounds.

However, if you need to thump an elk, mulie or large whitetail at long range, the 300 winnie will yield about 300fps for the same weight bullet compared to the 30-06. That equals more energy at longer ranges.

To me magnums is range.If I thought I would kill my moose and deer at a 100 yds every-year I'd never own anything but a 30-06.But the mags have their place in certain situations.

I think I would agree. See lots of 7mm's here, and plenty of 300WM's. Then followed by 30-06's, 303's and all of the others. I will say this though, you can get a 300WM to shoot like a 30-06, but you can't get a 30-06 to shoot like a 300WM. And in "I only can have one gun world", for a lot of folks, that makes good sense.

Sorry, your prejudices are not accurate. Most of my whitetail hunting has been in northern Wisconsin. Most of my western hunting has been elk and muledeer in Colorado and New Mexico. Much of my opinions about rifles was formed from being a fulltime rangemaster at a public shooting range. Very few hunters can shoot a magnum rifle well enough to even start to use its supposed advantages.

300 Win's statements are accurate. His statements may not describe you, but since I hunted in Texas for 8+ seasons, I know 300's sentiment about shooting Texas whitetails is correct. Further, the worst perfomance I ever had on these small deer was from a 30-06. The best was from a 300 Win. As long as the bullet doesn't over-expand and penetration is adequate, the added velocity does create more tissue damage, all else being equal. Having said that, most anything from a 223 on up will do well on deer with proper shot placement and proper bullets at reasonable ranges.

I have often heard the old saw that most folks can't shoot magnums well. That is partly true but misses the main point. I once had a 13 yd old boy and a 27 yr old Italian girl (I should mention she was VERY hot!) drilling the bullseye at 100 yds with my 416 Rem. With just a little guidance, most people can shoot heavier recoiling rifles well. I'd go even further and say that most of those who can't shoot heavier recoiling rifles well probably can't shoot anything well, though there are some exceptions.

Also, the very word "magnum" is misleading. A 35 Whelen shooting 250 grain bullets at 2450 fps in a 8 lb rifle will rock your world at least as much as a 10 lb 300 Win MAGNUM shooting a 180 grain bullet at 3000 fps. I was very suprised to find that out many years ago. To go further, a 7mm Rem MAGNUM doesn't recoil much differently than a 30-06 to me, my 45-70 definitely kicks harder than my 270 Win Short MAGNUM, and the 470 Nitro Express I shot definitely kicked harder than my 416 Rem MAGNUM.

There are many factors that casue felt recoil to be uncomfortable, but the word MAGNUM isn't one of them. I think it is more useful to look at things like stock fit, stock material, recoil pad material, and shooting technique when trying to mitigate recoil.

it's got nothing to do with the added punch, i'd guess, for most knowledgeable riflemen... at least those with the desire to shoot at longer ranges... fact of the matter is that speed kills... not necessarily as a component of energy, but simply as an aid to precise shooting...
a high b.c. bullet launched briskly drops less and spends less time lollygagging in the wind, thereby simplifying the riflemans task...

on some terrain, this is no big deal... and then there's eastern colorado..... john w