I have it bad. I find I'm grabbing the 57 vintage FWT 30-06 and leaving the SS Classic, accurized, Edge rifle in the case, even on rainy days. I'm still looking for a FWT barrel in 270, and I just paid for this rifle and if I get lucky I'll have it the end of the week. I haven't been this excited about a rifle, in, well, ever............








It's chambered in the case in the middle:

I got a 30-06 Featherweight a year older than yours which I love too. Thy certainly have a "feel" about them - particularly when you cycle the action.

What a great looking model 70, well done on such a find. I have been looking for rifles such as this one here in Australia for the last 30 yrs . They are pure hunting rifles,same as the Mauser sporters of old , the FN's etc . The 300 Weatherby Mag should get a fair bit of game for you. At the moment I have 12 like yours in various calibres , It's great to be able to still find treasures isn't it !

I have it bad..

Me too!

Me too....

I'm down to four right now-

30-06 std weight from 1950
30-06 FWT from 1961
308 FWT from 1960
25-06 Keith Stegall custom from 1951

Lookin for an action so that I can build a 280 FWT

Le me know if you ever get tired of em!

Posers, all of you.

I have a buddy who last I knew had 60-some of them, along with a handful of actions as well.

A few years ago, he decided that he "might" have enough, and sold off about 20 of them (still leaving him his 60+ remaining). He admits to having rifles he's never shot...

He's 70 years old, and has been collecting them for almost 50 years.

He sold me a magnum action about five years ago, and built one of my match rifles on another action he had laying around. I've sold him three rifles (at cost) that I've found, and didn't want, but knew he would. He takes care of me in return, doing all of my gunsmithing and selling me those inferior Rem M700's that he finds, and we have a great relationship.

I've got 5, and need more. It is an addiction,yessir!

Pre's never did anything for me and if forced to slum blued/walnut of yore...it'd be Sako...................

Blaine,
Just like a kid in the candy store.... patience!
It reminds me of when I was a kid and my dad would occasionally bring me home a suprise (puppy, used go kart, etc.). He'd call the house from the freeway about 5 miles from our home and give me a few non-specific hints to get me excited. Those were the longest 10-15 minutes of my life! Then I had to grow up... wish I could still get that fired-up about simple things. M70's and big mule deer still do it though!

Its a great disease to have. The joy of finding one that no one has chopped up and butchered is unspeakable.

Is that supposed to be a .300 Weatherby in the middle? What is that?

I've got the 'itis even though I only own one at this time. I suspect more will find their way into my safe in the future though.

I'm thinking it's an Ackley something or other.

In other words, not one of those unchopped up and unbutchered ones that you like so much.

Apparently so. Nice rifle though, looks very crisp on the outside...

It is a 300 Ack with a 40 degree shoulder. I wanted to find one in Ack or Wby. I mean, it's just bad form to admit rechambering a 300 H&H as nice as this one. So my first choice was to find one already recut, my second choice was to find a rougher one them rechamber and refinish it.

Yes, I know the 300 H&H is a fine round, but given this rifle is likely going to be 9 lbs with scope, I wanted to get added performance for the weight.

I stand guily as charged!!!

too bad most pre 64 guys stick their heads in the sand on how good the new model 70's are

On my lope this year I used my Dad's pre/fwt with a 3xLeo on it. So yeah I can underforstand. And my wife used my pre that got into the family about 58 via my Grandad.

Best of luck with the unit, no doubt you'll get it to perk!

Dober

The new M-70s are fine and I have several, but the quality of workmanship in the pre '64s considerably outweighs the minor design improvements in the new models. I would expect a new rifle built to the quality of a mid 50s M-70 would cost $2000 - $3000 today. I guess a Dakota 76 comes the closest to replicating the quailty of a pre 64.

Tho a bit heavy for backpacking/mountain hunting, I just love 'em. I only have one & it's a .270 Win. made in 1953. It was bubba'ed up but I've got the original stock which I replaced with an H-S Precision. I know, I know, H-S doesn't make 'em for a pre-64. Well, my smith was able to modify it & bed it to work just fine tho a bit on the heavy side. To this day, she'll easily shoot 150 Partitions into 3/4".
Too bad my Kimber, .270 WSM won't do that. More like a pattern with that one. Yup!! Gotta love the pre-64's.
Bear in Fairbanks

I like them alright but dont have the "itis"
I had one in 270 looked like its been through a war or two was going to rebarrel it one day but I sold it to a guy in Selma who drove all the way up to north al to pick it up and was tickled to get it.

Blaine,
I'm still searching for the right one; like you I am looking for one with the barrel stamped 300 H&H Magnum, but I want the original...

Gun Broker has a few, as does Guns International. There were even a couple on Guns America. However, I think the prices are too high, because many of those rifles have been on auction or for sale for a long time.

thats funny many of the ones I have seen look like they were machined with a dul hacksaw in areas below the wood line and areas that were not easily seen. I think someone should do some close up pics of an early 50's pre 64 out of the stock do the same with a new SC model 70, my money is on the new one being machined cleaner

Go for one like mine, simply stamped "300 Magnum"

I love the stamps on the pre-1950 guns. ".270 W.C.F." and ".30 Gov't '06"

Purrrrrrrrr...

Lucky you to find what you want, in great condition like that, and Good on you for not butchering one up to get it! I've not heard of a .300Ack. What recipes does it use?

It shoots about like a 300 Wby, and those are the loads most start with. The Ack might have a tiny bit more capacity, but I'm not sure.

They're my favorite bolt rifle...only Sav 1899s get me excited more, as far as guns go. I have only 1, but it's a pre-war .270.

Lemme know if any of you are looking for a .338 Alaskan (1958) cause mine has been ignored for about 12 years now and is looking for a new home.

only one for me too. pre war, 22 hornet. it loves nosler 45gr. hornet bl. tips turkey over with gusto! hehe! D O M I T !

Interesting, thanks for sharing that.

That's why I'm still searching for the "right" one

very nice 338

No.

Jeff

I fully recognize and acknowledge their "faults"....the Standards tend to be on the heavy side,and I never met a low-comb model that did not need restocking to suit me,although the Monte Carlo's are not bad,and the FW's handle just fine....the gas-handling system could have been better.Maybe they did not come in true "short actions",and are heavier than is fashionable today.Who cares?

The sound of the action working is not duplicated by any modern sporting rifle,and I can recognize the "snickety-snick" of a pre 64 across the room,sight unseen...the heat treat and fitting of the parts made them that way...

For me,years of use,many head of game,and carrying them all over the continent in various calibers has built a level of trust that is frankly lacking in other sporting rifles.There are very good reasons why "everything else"in bolt action hunting rifles gets compared to a pre 64 M70.....

If you handed me one in,say,30/06(or 270,300 H&H,or 375 H&H),cold,and threw me on a plane...or dumped me in Africa or Alaska with it,I would take it anywhere,for anything,and not have the slightest doubt that it would work,function,and go "bang", every time,and that it would hit where I aimed it,without any gunsmith magic,aftermarket parts,or tweaking by accuracy guru's,without doing anything other than sighting it in.......

Having messed with truckloads of manufactured rifles of other stripes,both past and current,there is no other mass-manufactured rifle of which I can absolutely say the same thing.

Treatment is expensive

AGREED! My only issue with them is that I can't use mine during the archery elk season....!

I persoanlly witnessed one of the best 70 collections in the country. That does not make me an expert, but I have seen every cal in every config in mint, mint condition. I held the first 270 production rifle ever produced. Model 54 in 270. Serial #3. First 2 were 30-06. They are the best and are the gold standard for all rifles...

Old Boy I cut with had over 200 and was most proud of his 9mm.

Not my cup of tea...................

The new M-70s are fine and I have several, but the quality of workmanship in the pre '64s considerably outweighs the minor design improvements in the new models. I would expect a new rifle built to the quality of a mid 50s M-70 would cost $2000 - $3000 today. I guess a Dakota 76 comes the closest to replicating the quailty of a pre 64.

[/quote]

Hopefully D'Arcy Echols, Brian Bingham, David Miller, Lon Paul or some of our other talented and gifted builders will weigh in here - as in their opinion the classics are much more consistent to build into custom rifles than the pre-64's.

Kimber does it better than Winchester ever has,or likely will...though I'd get giddy over something that trumped a Montana................

Those guys may believe that but, if so, I would like to hear their reasoning. I often see guys talking about the design improvements in the new models but don't know what they might be
I don't think the pre-64 action is the pinnacle of action design but I do think it is better in most areas than the classics. This is especially true of the pre-war models.
The bolt sleeve threads almost always fit better. The bolt body is one piece. The receiver threads are complete with no gaps like on the classics. The bolt stop on the pre-war models actually transfers force to the receiver rather than just to the pin like the new one's. The cocking cam isn't split by a silver solder joint and is harder and smoother.
The advantage the Classic does have is action length. That about wraps it up. It's no better dimensionally and all design changes were made to ease manufacturing and not to improve function in any way.
From what I have seen so far, the FN Model 70s may have the best receiver of all Model 70's and the bolt and bolt sleeve are better than the classic's. Unfortunately, they stopped short of making a one piece bolt or changing the breeching system.
None of my pre-64 rifles are anything like original though I can put them back if I wish. I do really like them. When I build a rifle on a Winchester action, I'm usually pretty happy with the result. They look right and they shoot right. I like working with them. GD

Don't have it yet?

Kimber? Maybe in an alternate universe! GD

A spanking good line-up there!!
That's what a collection looks like !!

I don't think Kimber's round action with washer recoil lug and screwed on bolt handle is even in the running.

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to gunsmithing,but I spoke with Gene Simmillion once about building a rifle in a magnum chambering,and he said we would both be happier if we used a Classic; Phil is right as these "top end" smiths seem to prefer the Classic action......

....but I think that's the point...by the time guys like Penrod,Ecols, Simmillion, etc., get done with a Classic with a full blown metal job,it is hardly the same action that came out of the factory...

I took delivery yesterday of a Classic Stainless in 375H&H.With two pre 64's in that caliber it was hard to justify.....but the rifle was bedded in an Echols Legend by Simmillion,and gone over for function,etc...has been to Africa and Alaska...if Simmillion worked it over,that's good enough for me...

Another great one IMHO....loved the Riiamiki(sp?)short action jobs and those I've had have been tackdrivers.....ditto the 222's..................as a platform for a 7/08,an old one converted from 243 would be tough to beat IMHO.....Sako perfected the "short action" long before many even cared.

Bob, I'd like to see a pic and details of that...

I have a mild case of the itis. So far I have the following: .243 FW, .270, .06, 300 H&H (x2), & .338.

Petr: I am taking it to the range in about an hour for a maiden voyage...I'll take the camera,and shoot a few photo's for you. If you drop me a PM with email, I can get the photos to you quicker....I don't know how to post pics here.

I've had it, lost it, got it back, lost it, became infected again. I think it may be a chronic condition. There are worse "itis's" to have.

Currently have "LRI". aka: Light Rifle Itis

I am a avid pre 64 and Mauser fan, or rather a control feed fanatic, having seen too many foopaws with push feed rifles over the years on dangerous game hunts, and I've seen a few big'un get away because of push feeds, now I don't intend to start that age old arguement, this is only my opinnion as to what I use, not what someone else chooses, as what others use is of no concern to me...

My old 300 H&H is a pre 64, looks like stainless steel but that is from too many hours in a saddle scabbard, the stock is exhibition drift wood, the action is worn slicker n snot, and it still shoots right at a half inch with most loads and most loads hit the same POI..My sons got the .270 and the 300 Win. Mag. and they are much nicer but not any better. The rest are custom 98 Mausers and I have one Ruger 77 but I had it fixed! it has a control feed and a 3 pos. M-70 safety, it is the 30-06 and its pretty rough looking also, but again it shoots littlel tiny groups, 3 or 10 shots no matter...

I do like the pre 64s, they are truly the rifle mans rifle. wood and blued steel has a warmth about it that I cannot feel with platic and SS that reminds me of my wifes can opener!

"platic and SS that reminds me of my wifes can opener!"

great line!

Ah, you got it! What are you going to make brass out of?

There are a couple of pre 64 70's at the Armoury in New Preston, CT. One is a 243 Featherweight shooter. It has a like new bore and the action has not been worked much. Its stock is marked up enough and also the bottom metal is scarred so I would not call it a collector unless you don't have one. If you don't have a pre 64 70 then I would buy it just like that. As I recall its about $1250.

They also have a 257 Roberts Standard there for about $2200. I did not look at that one close.

They are open Thursday thru Saturday only.

Since they were never made in left hand I have less than zero interest in them.

I have owned probably a dozen plus pre-64 Model 70's and (6) newer USRAC and Winchester versions. These ranged from a 1936 Mod 70 Carbine to a couple each of Alaskan (.338 WM's, .300 H&H's) versions. I still own a Super Grade (1949), .270 Winchester. This in no way makes me an expert, just familiar with the breed.

Most of these pre-64's of mine were magnums or Super Grade rifles which I wish that I still had. A divorce ended most of this relationship. I am just thankful that I still own a couple of Model 70's and look forward to buying one of the new models soon. Winchester Model 70, Made in America, it has a good ring to it.

I have 150 pieces of new Remmy 300 H&H. I could also neck down 416 Rem, 375 H&H, and 8mm RM; or I could neck up 7 STW. This is a good ACK to have in that light.

I have often said the Classic is a better design. It just is not put toegther wich as much quality (IE, receivers being .003" out of true) as the pre 64s.

BTW, was there in drop off in quality in the 60s with pre 64s?

It is my feeling that the newly manufactured Winchester Model 70's (the ones made by Browning in South Carolina), will be good, well made actions based on the plant having an ISO 9001 Quality Plan that assures meeting specifications and reducing scrap and manufacturing shrinkage. Browning may be having a few quality hiccups as they tune and certify the production line for the new Model 70. However, I am pretty certain that the product Browning turns out will be high quality and as dimensionally repeatable as they can make them.

No, I think newer rifles are made much better.

could that not be, at least in part due to the fact that one (i.e. clients) can consistently obtain a Classic action faster, easier, and cheaper than a pre-64? Especially in the 375 h&h lengths?

I suppose another way to say that is, if any one of the above builders were building say, a 270 for themselves, and there was a pre-64, a post-64, a post 64 Classic, and a post-64 FN sitting on a table, which one would they grab first?

The 'new' FN or SC or whatever you call the M70's that I have seen have unacceptable defects. One is a very difficult bolt lift with the firing pin down. This is when you need an easy bolt lift that the M70's used to be famous for, when your working the bolt from your shoulder at arms length. Perhaps the cam is wrong, the metal is soft on the cam, or what? In any case its unacceptable.

Also the safeties are abominable. They are very stiff and noisy when pushed off but worse are very sharp on the top edge and cut into your thumb. Unacceptable.

Give the customer a sloppy bolt and listen to the complaints. Give them a sloppy safety and listen some more. Letting a Model 70 style safety off quietly-when necessary, and that is definitely not always the case-does not take extreme athletic ability. Cutting your thumb, please. Shoot it some and let it wear in is the enjoyable part. Those original pre 64s have experienced considerable wear.

Hoping to get my hands on one of the new ones in the not too distant future.

For the price of a new Echols Legend, 14 thousand bucks, I would hope it would be very different.

The problem is it is not $13,000+ different.

Addition: To me anyway.

I think few could argue that as well.

Battue,

What are you saying? Are you saying that the top of the safety wing where our thumb works on it is not sharp? How do you know this when indeed I could see and feel that its sharp?

How can you say that the bolt lift was not hard on the rifle that I tried? Did you try it? Do you even know where that new rifle is?

I have handled approx: 10 of the new ones and all were acceptable, at least with regards to appearance and function, and the accuracy reports here of those who bought one are almost universally positive.

You, on the other hand are bashing the entire line because of the ONE you handled. Remember your quote: "Do you even know where that new rifle is? Now I expect you have seen more than one, but it seems that you are one of the few here on the fire that find them unacceptable and abominable.

A couple months ago I had a pin fall out on the bolt stop of a pre64 FWT when I took it out of the stock. Didn't make it abominable.

I have seen two of them. One has a hard bolt lift and a very sharp and difficult safety. The others bolt lift is ok and the safety is also sharp and difficult.

Perfection is difficult to find and a hard master.

savage is never happy, he also thinks his old brnos suck too, but still hunts with them all the time, even though he could loose his bolt. the new model 70's I saw looked better and tighter and functioned better than pre 64's I have messed with

My custom pre64 in 264 Win mag, and also have a 1957 Featherweight in 270. Both have served me well.

If I bought just one, then I would expect that one to not have such defects as described and I would not hesitate to tell all it was junk! On the other hand most guns, including the old pre 64s get better with age and use and all of them need a bit of tinkering..I go through all of them with a fine tooth comb and I tweek the crap out of any rifle I own, and I still come up with a flaw from time to time, so when that happens I fix it..I have tweeked a few of my custom rifles to death, tested the to th point that I may put a couple of hundred rounds through one then have some little something like the follower pop up and plug the bolt, even after all that firing, so I have to file and hone a new follower or solder a sliver of metal on the old one that I apparantly took down a little to far, its a touchy process.

guns are like a fine wine, a good women, and a good horse they get better as they age and wear, well wine and horses do!

With both eyes firmly above ground...... .................I have likely owned and shot enough Classics that the number exceeds my fingers and toes in the aggragate . I suspect I have had more pre 64's...and my total count of the new FN stops at a paltry "one".......

Sorry but there is just no way I can agree with the above statement,at least insofar as the metal is concerned.There are good Classics;I've had them...but in my view they were (there will be exceptions to this of course)a more precisely made,but sloppily assembled,rifle,and I've had my share of indifferent grouping,lousy bedding, crooked barrels,loose extractors,funky followers,indifferent function,bolts that would not go into "battery" and a host of other maladies too numerous to mention.....

I had a Classic stainless 375H&H at the range this afternoon.I mounted a scope,got it zeroed,and due to limited ammo,just rapped off hand with it.It functioned great...Gene Simmillion had gone over the gun,so I am not surprised.

At the same time,I cannot recall a single pre 64 of many that required anywhere near the amount of tweaking that has been necessary before I'd even consider taking a Classic afield on a hunt.

I picked up a Classic as a donor recently...it'll work when I'm done with it,but it's going to someone who knows what they are doing with it,will be rebarreled and restocked,and then I'll hunt with it...not before.

The FN? Great little rifle,so far.Is it a pre 64?............uh.....no...they stopped making those awhile ago

I have often said the Classic is a better design. It just is not put toegther wich as much quality (IE, receivers being .003" out of true) as the pre 64s.

BTW, was there in drop off in quality in the 60s with pre 64s?[/quote]
Again, I always want to know just what aspect of the Classic makes it a better design than the pre-64. The two piece bolt? The sloppy bolt stop and spring? The thicker, heavier floorplate and trigger guard? Or is it just the longer mag box? Maybe the partial thread in the receiver ring is the major improvement.
There did seem to be a significant drop in quality as the pre-64's neared the end. Checkering panels got smaller and smaller and looked as if they were done with a knife and fork. Machining on bolt and receiver got sloppier. Heat treating errors seemed more prevalent. GD

After owning a Pre'64 M70 in 300 Win Mag,1963 of course..:-).. and a '61 Featherweight in 270 a few years back I got thinking I should have another one...made a deal on a 1950 standard rifle in 30-06 and before I got it a 1959 Featherweight 30-06 popped up,...so I bought it too....can't decide what to do with the 1950 but I don't know if I can bring myself to tear it apart and build something on it.....

The Fwt shoots Federal 165 TSX factory ammo in an inch...probably won't bother to load for it....

I have the itis bad. Most of mine have never been shot by me but I do have the ones that I like to shoot and hunt with. My 1948's in 300 and 375 are my favorites. They came special ordered without rear sights which makes them kind of special. Then there's the 243 varmint that I like to take to the range and on nice days I will take my 250 super grade carbine out in the woods hunting. I have also hunted with my 257 carbine but for some reason the 257 round just doesn't do anything for me.

I handled a 25/35 a couple years ago but just don't have that kind of money.

To all,

The Autumn Gun Works had a pre64 in 264 Win yesterday. The price was $1100 plus tax? Thats an unusal tag for that place. Maybe its an consigment gun? It was so busy there that I did not ask about the rifle.

This rifle is in good shape except that someone had slapped on an old type shotgun pad and cut the stock long ago. Its a very sloppy job and the pad should be replaced.

The LOP with the pad seemed ok so if another one were added it might be good for you. I would definitely ask them to measure the LOP as it is now etc.

I looked in the bore but without a cleaning rod to wipe it some I cannot be sure about the throat. I already have a Westerner so I did not grab it. Not a bad price at all for a pre64 70 let alone a 264!

AUTUMN GUN WORKS INC
515 Old Middle St
Goshen, CT 06756
Phone: 860-491-4867

I've owned somewhere between fifteen and twenty Classics and only one Pre-64... from nearly every POV the Pre-64 is the finer rifle. The only things I like better about the Classic is it's available in stainless (moot point really), was fitted with a left side bolt shroud near the end of USRAC's production, but mostly because the bolt handle was re-designed to accommodate a low mounted scope. Beyond those, I'll take the Pre-64 any day.

Aside, Greydog is an absolute TOP smith who has likely forgotten more about rifle's than many currently "think" they know, and I have more faith in his first-person assessment of the Pre-64 than a second or third hand assessment of a few "name" rifle smiths from non-smiths...

Fellows: I don't think it appropriate to mention the Model 70 Classic and the wonderful Rifleman's Rifle (THE pre-64 Winchester Model 70!) in the same sentence!
The comparison is like comparing a turd (the Classic) to a truffle (THE pre-64 Winchester Model 70!).
Sheesh.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

That's a bit over the top... lets try and keep things centered a little more close to reality...

I had Pre 64 "itis" until I found that they didn't handle gas well so I sold most of them. I made some money and bought better rifles.

ddj

Ouch!

Although I am among those who will tell you a Model 70 doesn't handle gas all that well (It really doesn't), this shortcoming is one shared by a lot of others as well. In addition, it is a shortcoming that only makes it's presence felt in the event of a major case failure. I've blown primers in a pre-64 and not been aware of it until I opened the bolt (Note: It oftens pays to start low and work up to max. Working down is a poor way of doing things.) So, gas handling inability, while real enough, is not enough to, in my mind, condemn the rifle. In addition, it's curable.
Brad,
Thank you for the kind, if somewhat exaggerated, comments on my abilities. The truth is, everyone on this forum (well, maybe not everyone!) can teach me something.
By the time I started gunsmithing professionally (late 70's), the pre-64 Winchester Model 70 was already a legend. Thirty years later, I am beginning to believe it deserves it's legendary status. GD

Well, my only wish is you were on this side of the border But I think you're overly modest, I've seen your work and its tops. Anyway, you're welcome

Two summers ago I sat for over an hour chatting with Dave Gentry about how firearms handled gas, just before he died. He collected various blown actions (mostly they were sent to him for his expert opinion), including one M70 Classic which I had previously owned and which a gent had blown up (he escaped unharmed and the action handled it very well). Anyway, Dave told me there are only three actions he'd sit at the bench and shoot without wearing shooting glasses, the Mauser 98, Savage 110 and Wby MKV. Dave also felt the M700 handled escaping gas almost as poorly as the M70.

Dave was a good guy who'd always take time to pass on what he'd learned with me when I visited the shop and I miss being able to go over and chat with him...

I know no one cares but I really cannot comment on how a pre 64 M70 handles escaping gas.....I've never allowed one to do that.......

On another note....I have read that a Rem 700 actually supports less of the case than a Mauser 98,due to the necessity of tolerances for the nose of the bolt to clear the back of the barrel when it comes into battery, or some such.....maybe Grey Dog can advise?

Brad, what did that guy do to blow the Classic action?

It occurs to me, I own 5 pre-64's and a single Classic. The Classic is a custom stainless that Greydog has modified a lot. Guess I'm in good company! Those numbers also sum up how I feel about pre-64 vs the Classic.

Rick: I'm starting another build.....it'll be on a Classic action, but will be tweaked( if you get my drift)to be sure it's right...and because I will no longer tear up pre 64's

I sorta suspected I knew where you stood on the issue

I had a feelin'...

My first 70, a 1941 SuperGrade '06, was purchased for $90 in mint condition, which will tell you how long ago it was. I still have it, no longer mint. Have owned others over the years, original and custom. Altho only in production for about thirty years IMO overall probably the outstanding factory hunting rifle of the 20th Century.

The Remington does support less of the case than a Mauser in a way. There is more of the case exposed outside the chamber and, as mentioned, clearances are pretty substantial. Where the Remington system comes into play is with a catastrophic failure or severe overload. If pressures and gas volume are high enough, the nose of the bolt will expand into the counterbore to seal everything in the barrel. It works. A custom barrel, fitted with less clearance, might be better in this respect.
The Mauser uses a breeching system which is kind of like a counterbored barrel except the counterbore is in the receiver. The Arisaka uses a deep counterbore in the breech end of the barrel. It`s a great system as well. I believe Kimber and Dakota use an Arisaka style breech.
From a design standpoint, the coned breech is the only part of the Model 70 which can be considered to be flawed. I like Mauser style bolt stops better but I know most prefer the smooth look afforded by the Winchester stop. I`m working on a Model 54 of my own at present and will probably use a Ruger bolt stop on it. I`ll use model 70 bottom metal (I redrill the front hole to locate it as a Model 70.) and am trying to decide what kind of bolt handle style to go with. I`ll stay with the two stage trigger for now anyway. The 54 is even more fun to work with than a pre-64 because there is so much more to do with it! Typically, I started out by making a stupid trade and now have to try and make it seem worthwhile. An uphill battle for sure. My family has a long history of ineptitude in trading everything from horses to houses and I am continuing the tradition and then some. GD

I have a 270 from the Custom Shop, 1950, it has a stainless barrel blued like a 264 Magnum. The serial number has a period or decimal point at each end .XXXXXXX., any idea what I have?

Bill,

You've got a couple rifles I covet. If the urge to pull off a stupid trade with them comes along, I'm there for you Pal!

Greydog,
I don't mean to hijack this man's thread, but I found your critical comparison of the Classic and Pre-64 very educational.
(The examples you gave concerning bolt construction, threading, et cetera.)

Would you mind writing a few lines stating what you don't like about(and maybe comparing them to a Pre-64):

Kimber Montanas
Tikka T3 Lite stainless
Ruger MK 2 stainless compact

On another thread I started asking about making a perfect rifle (for my likes), you gave a detailed response on improving my Ruger compact by fitting a custom stock. Thanks for the reply.

Guys, if this is inappropriate to ask on a thread about Pre-64s, let me know and I'll delete the post.

Rick: Do I have your email?Shoot me PM and I will send pics of 375....

Great information flowing here..only problem now is prices will go up again...Oh,well..it's still the best!