My buddies Jim and Dave were over yesterday PM and while we were sitting around the table in the gun room, we were talking about what would be the perfect woods loafer's rifle.

Jim is a native Nebraskan and since he grew up shooting small game and birds along the edges of creek bottoms and shelter belts, he said that he'd opt for a combination gun in 222 or 223 under a 16 or 12 gauge with screw-in chokes with a Leupold 2-7x in QRW rings and a Weaver base.

Dave was raised in Cincinnati, OH, and hunted mostly around his Grandparents' farms in Boone County, KY. He said that he'd opt for a Remington 7 stainless action, McM Compact Edge stock, and 19" #1 contour stainless barrel with a 1 in 8" ROT in 223. Dave says that a Leupold 2-7x will work for him too.

As much as I like combination guns, I think that they are mostly too heavy for a woods loafer's rifle. Make mine a Remington 7 stainless with a McM Hunter Edge and a 19" #1 contour stainless barrel, 1 in 8" ROT, in 223. I'll go with a Leupold VX2 2-7x33 too.

What would be YOUR perfect woods loafer's rifle?

Jeff

My first thought was a Marlin 1894 in 357mag.

In TX you are as likely to cross a hog as anything else, so I'd opt fer a little more mass out the end. How's about a 70 featherweight in 7x57 and just to be different on the scope (I'd have picked the same as everyone else otherwise) FXII 2.5x20 UL.

+1 on the 1894 in 357 mag.

If I was in the survival mode, or the woods mode, I'd get one of these and never look back.

124 grain 9mm FMJs for rabbits and such, 158 JHP or 180 hard cast for most everything bigger than a dog.

A John Wooters .25 Copperhead. .222 Rem mga opene up to .25 I think. A very good article in Handloader Magazine describes it.

My first was a Savage 219 in 30-30, no scope. Light, easy to carry, and loads of different energy levels are easy to make.

Now it is a Contender carbine with the non-bull barrels. Your choice of calibers.

Bruce

My woods loafing rifle for the past dozen or so years has been a Ruger 77/22H .22 Hornet. It has taken everything from squirrels to deer & hogs without any drama.

That said, my "perfect" woods loafer rifle would be a CZ 527 modified with a 3-position swing safety, a staggered internal magazine, and an 8" twist .222 Rem. barrel, stoked with 70gr Speer's at 2,750fps. I doubt that I will ever posses such a rifle.

A rifle for loafin around in the woods from rabbits to deer?

Make mine a light, fast, and an extremely handy 16.5" barreled Ruger compact (35.5" OAL) in a 260 Remy.

Slap a light and compact Leupy scope on it and I`m in biz!

Not sure if it was Larry Koller that coined the term "Woods Loafer" but his choice and one of mine is the 250 Savage.

I could stay up late at night comparing a 99 lever to a lightweight Mauser probably with a mannlicher stock and 20" barrel. The 2-7x scope would suit me fine.

A 257 Bob would be hard to beat too, and if I wanted to be modern then it would be in a NULA.

I would +1 on that choice. One in 44mag might not be a bad choice either. You could load 44sp in lead for rabbits and the 44 would probably be a better deer rifle and could even work for bear, if it/you had to. Prolly not a bad home defense gun either.

I'd go for one of the 16.5" trapper models that you don't see very often. Nice thing about the 44 is that you can cast your own bullets. 357 too, but I think I'd rather have a 44, all things being equal.

How bout a Marlin 1894 in 256 Win Mag shooting a 65 gr. TSX....

I think a 44 Magnum levergun would work fine for that type of work. Make mine a Browning B-92, but a Marlin 94 will do nicely.

I think a lightweight single shot 45-70, with a hand full of 2 1/2" 410 shells would be about right! Don

Perfect Woodsloafer

.223 with 56gr. TSX

Take the 3 round mag and a 2,5x FX UL Leupold

A Rossi Mod 92 Winchester clone in 357 mag. With peep sights. With camo duct tape. As a matter of fact, it should look exactly like this one!

Well in Montana the woods Loafer rifle would either be a .220 Swift or 22.250 in a short action with a fast twist barrel.

While neither one is the perfect griz stomper they will do the job with the right premium bullet.

Here in Montana we have everything from gophers to griz and everything in between. You never know what you'll run into here.

Oh ya, for a scope of good 3 to 9 power is about the best choice.

I don't know, maybe other's idea of a "woods loafer's" weapon is different than mine. To me, that describes an activity where one hunts through the woods with no particular target in mind......but ALL targets accepted. If it runs, crawls, flies, jumps or swims.......it is fair game and a potential meal.

I did a lot of this in years past where I would hunt down a creek bottom taking any target of opportunity. If a rabbit broke from the brush.....he went into the game bag. If a coon or squirrel ran up a tree....he became part of the stew that night. If dove or quail happened by.....they too became a night's meal. If a duck flushed from the creek......roast duck was that night's meal. Snapping turtles that sat too long on a log.....turtle soup was always welcome. And if, by chance a deer or hog wandered close......many meals would follow.

For most of this type hunting the prefered weapon (and still probably one of the best choices) was a double shotgun with buckshot in one barrel and squirrel shot in the other. A cousin had another gun that all of us boys lusted after.....a Savage Model 24 with a .222 barrel over a 20 ga. shotgun. That gun was SWEET for a mixed bag hunt and the .222 gave it a range advantage over the buckshot we used. Primarilly because of the sometimes "oversize" hogs we encountered.....we all agreed that the "perfect" combination would be a .30-30 or .308 over a shotgun barrel, but we never saw one even though we knew they existed.

Now days, when I go on a "whatever shows up" type walk/hunt I mostly take a Savage Model 23 chambered for the .25-20. It is GREAT, doing little damage to edible small game and giving me more "reach" than the shotgun. It IS a bit light for deer/hogs, but that hasn't kept me from taking a number of each with careful bullet placement. Because of the possibility of a bigger (250+ pound) hog showing up, I normally also carry a .45 Colt revolver on my belt.

The disadvantage to this rifle/revolver combo is that you give up a lot of shots on birds. Doves and quail must be spotted while they are sitting and duck must be "stalked" while they are still on the water (this type hunting isn't about "sport" it's about collecting supper the most effective way you can).

For that reason I still think we had it right 40 years ago. A shotgun/rifle combo like the Model 24 or a double shotgun backed up with a good revolver is still the "perfect" woods loafer's weapon.......they can do it all!!

For me the term "woods loafing" has always meant just kind of wandering around in the woods early autumn, looking things over, getting ideas about where and what to hunt and trap and carrying a rifle to knock off targets of opportunity but not being real serious about it. My "woods loafer" rifle is a '94 Marlin .25-20 with a Leupie 1-4. 86 grain Remington FNSP's at 1600 do whatever needs doing without a lot of fuss and bother.

my woodsrunning gun depends on the season, if during deer season i make sure it something that has enough whompability for that.

i'm a contender carbine fan, and i set up one of mine for utility use while filling feeders, running the fences, working food plots, etc.

It is a stainless lightweight tapered shorty in .357max with a ghost ring rear & fiber optic front. i am ordering a matching barrel to go with it in .30reece, which is the .357mag necked to .30cal, sort of a chunky .256winmag. neat little round that gives 32/20+ performance using cheap brass, but has a more solid shoulder for headspacing.

It weighs right at 4 pounds with the factory tupperware stocks...very handy.

I read an article a few years back on this very subject by Francis Sell. He really was a wealth of knowledge on deer hunting but in this particular article, he favored the 25-20 to match this description. He shot deer with it too and an elk also as I seem to recall. Seems a bit light to me even for small deer.
I think from what I have read here in this thread, considering that this is to be a rifle for the woods, a lever action in .44 magnum would be hard to beat.
I used to own a Ruger Vaquero in .44 Magnum and I handloaded for it at .44 Special velocity. It was very pleasant to shoot.
The truth is, while I am hunting, I am armed specifically for the game that I have in mind. If I'm just out for a stroll I feel no need to carry a weapon here in the Maine woods.
Different strokes I guess. I might feel differently elsewhere.

One rifle to do it all... Hmmm, I always thought about a handgun/rifle "loafing ensemble", where the handgun was a lightly loaded 41 magnum for the squirrels and bunnies, and the Marlin lever action 41 maggie would account for the bigger stuff.

Wow, I didn't think anyone used 25-20's any more. My Aunt used on to hunt deer back i the 60's and 70's. She was of small stature, but she did eventually upgrade to a 30-30.

Of my rifles I'd have to say my 94 swede mauser, someone sporterized it before I got it. It has an old redflield aperture sight with no stock irons. I'd have to concur with the gentleman above about the over and under savages, mine would be .22 mag and 20 gauge since it's the largest I've seen. That new taurus Judge carbine would fit the bill as well.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/ST_shotshow2010day1_011910WO/index1.html

Combo guns would be nice but I like the pistol/rifle combo. A .22 handgun on the belt and a light Marlin Lever carbine in the hand. Could be a 357 or 44. The .22 pistol for plucking birds, squirrels, bunnies. The levergun for anything larger. If only one, then I would stick with the rifle. Nowadays as a woods loafer it is not just potential game you are looking for but the potential for protecting yourself should also be considered when making your choice.

My vote goes to a Rem model 7 in 308 under a 4x scope. With ball ammo it remains very accurate & with 180 gr Fail Safes, pretty dangerous. Never shot any of the saboted 22 Accelerators, but they might round out the picture. What would it not work for?

So when you fellas are out hunting deer and you see a rabbit or a grouse do you shoot it?
That makes no sense to me..

My .357 Max Handi Rifle....I can shoot .38 Specials for small game.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...26/357_Max_Handi_at_25_Yards#Post3712226

1. Not that well as some rifles when unloading a hot chamber.
2. Birds if they fly.
3. Rabbits if they run.
4. Squirrels in a tree.
I could think of some more relevant to the woods roaming that I have done in VT and nearby states.

As others have mentioned the season and what game is up at bat matters much. For general use I like a drilling. Its shotgun barrels are the equal of any for upland game and the one I have rifled in 8mm is good for medium game.

A combination gun would be very good also. Whats also fun is just getting the most out of what you have with you. It might mean passing up some shot.


7 pounds, 24" barrels, 4X Hensoldt, 1X Weaver.

Savage, the drilling is sweet!

For the northeast a Winchester 92 comes to mind..or a Savage 99 in 250-3000.

..another is that cute little bolt action CZ makes chambered for 7.62x39.

A M94 30-30 with factory stuff and squib cast loads for turkeys,rabbits and grouse may be as good as it gets...

For real north woods climbing I like an old Ruger .45 Blackhawk. I load it up with hard cast Keith type bullets in my avatar. I carried that gun a lot out of the camp.

Always a thought that a bear might be there and the season used to open in April. Most of what I shot was easy like a porkupine.

The drilling is king for the fall up north when the grouse are open and the ....

You should get one. Make sure it comes with a scope in claw mounts.

What do you have to protect yourself from when you're out loafing in the New England woods? Guys growing pot or cooking meth?

Jeff

Jeff, Other savage collectors!!! Don

Short barreled model 7600. Low power scope.

I can see your point on that matter.

Jeff

Win 94, .25-35.

Always wanted either a 25 Copperhead or a 7mm TCU for a little of everything gun. Small enough with cast bullets a low speed it for small game and enough zip for deer with jacketed bullets.

In a small action like a CZ 527 or Rem 7 with a Leupold 4X or 6X compact a light synthetic stock it would be a handy and useful little rifle.

I don't really big and small game hunt at the same time but I suppose if I was to choose a rifle for that it would be an 18" Contender carbine in 6mm TCU.

I like my Marlin 94, 44 mag, but I am really tempted to build a nice handy little Swede bolt to so a little of everything in the next year or two.

I like a .22LR most of the time it is good enough. There is not really a time here in PA that I can hunt "everything" at the same time. So if it is Deer rifle season then I carry a suitable caliber rifle. But if it is not then I carry a .22LR or a shotgun.

If I had to choose from an existing rifle in my meager collection, it would be my Winchester M94 in .30-30 Winchester.

In stainless.............

I had a nice cape gun with a three barrel set 2 12 gauge side by side and one cape.....sold it what was I thinking.

This seems perfect to me.

Francis Sell commonly used the term "woods loafers" in his writing. In fact his 1964 book, "The Deer Hunter's Guide" is dedicated to "woods loafers", as well as trappers and Indians that he had hunted with. His favorite walking rifle was indeed a 25-20 lever gun.

I have used Marlin levers in several calibers for walking guns: 25-20, .357, .44, and 30-30. They carry very easy. Where I walk I frequently get shots at ground squirrels with an occasional jack rabit or coyote.

I carry my snub-nose .38 in my back pocket most of the time, too. There is always the possibility of running into something rabid. Possibilities also include armed pot-growers, feral dogs, mountain lions, bears, and rattlesnakes. I feel rather naked if I am in the big outdoors with nothing but a pocket knife.

But my all-time favorite walk-about rifle is my Savage 1920 bolt gun in 250-3000 loaded with 75 gr V-Max bullets. The "mini-Springfield" weighs only six and a half pounds with the scout scope attached. The stock is very trim and the gun is accurate enough that it has taken dozens of ground squirrels at around 100 yards. It is much harder to hit a ground squirrel with the lever guns.

With the 250 Savage I wouldn't feel under-gunned going up against the bigger animals, yet it is wonderful on the squirrels that make up 95 percent of my actual targets. I use rather light loads in the old gun and usually don't feel the need for hearing protection when I shoot it on my walks. It was well worn when I got it 20 years ago and I bet it has more miles in the woods than I do.

Perhaps a shotgun/rifle OU of dreiling.

Expat

A nice Cape Gun was exactly what I was thinking.... Merkel makes one, for example. (As one example of a new production gun.) I think I would take the Merkel model 240 cape gun in 7x65R Brenneke (or maybe 8x57JRS) and 20 ga.





Cheers!
-Bob F.

Cape gun is good, drilling is better. My favorite lately is a 12x12x.30-30 Sauer/Daly hammer drilling (about a century old), partly because it can be opened, cocked, etc. without making any noise. Thus a cast-bullet handload can be substituted for a normal 170-grain jacketed load. It also has a flip-up tang aperture sight so it very accurate out to 150+ yards. And the shotgun barrels can be loaded with birdshot in one side and buckshot or slug in the other. Can't get more versatile than that.

I would like to own a drilling one day. It sounds like a great answer to the question.


R.

for all you american's.
a drilling is the correct answer.
12ga x 12ga x 30-06.
in the right tube of the shotgun, put an einstecklauf (sp?) or single shot barrel of your caliber of choice, if i remmber correctly they can be had in 22lr up and maybe bigger than a 5.6x54r magnum.

now this all from a long time ago when i hunted in germany, so i stand to be corrected.
anyways, say you put a 222 in it. when you screw the 2 parts together in the barrel and tighten them together , there are 2 screws, 1 will go up the other to the side, this moves the poi for that insert barrel.
sight your main large caliber in say at 100 yards, and the smaller one by using the screws to move the poi, at maybe 50.
now you have a shotgun, small caliber rifle and a large game caliber all in 1 rifle and all shooting the the same aiming point.

heavy, sorta, clubby, kinda, but 1 gun to rule them all !

While I still had decent eyesight it was a M94 Marlin in 25-20M(WCF), 24" tapered oct. barrel and a Williams 5D peep shooting cast bullets.

I have Mod 99's in .250Sav and .243Win. I have a Win Mod 94 16" Wrangler in .32Win. I have a Ruger Mod 77 full stock carbine in .243. Any of them would work for the woods carry described. I think that a 16" Taurus Thunderbolt pump or Mod 92 lever in the .327Fed would sure trip my trigger.

+1.... I have 4 of them....

Mule Deer,

A cape gun is what came to mind for me because from my reading it is lighter to carry than a drilling. I have never owned either so perhaps you could add some info.

Is there a substantial difference in weight or in handling between the two? Also the cape gun and drilling pictures I've seen reflect a higher quality gun than the combination guns like the savage that some posters mentioned.

Thanks, Norm

Discerning gentlemen provide the answer.

I only have one, so far, but I've had it a while.

The Rossi 92 in 357 I pictured on pg #1 weighs 7 lbs 4.6 oz as you see it. That includes the sling, the camo tape, and 19 rounds loaded with 1600 fps, 190 gr cast bullets. That's hard to beat as a woods loafer rifle. You guys packing a 12 lb rifle + a backpack + whatever won't walk far from your truck. Not at my age, anyhow...

doubletap,

I am certainly not Mule Deer but just old. However since I have had and used the drilling for a long time, well let me have a say.

The J.P.Sauer&Sohn,Suhl drilling of mine weighs 6.5 lbs. Its barrels are 23.75" long. This is a lightweight gun that balances as well or better (in my view) than any gun I have. Its not even heavy with its 4X Hensoldt Dural-Dialytan scope that weighs 3/4 lb with its claw mounts.

I use it mostly with no scope however I shot a buck with it and that was with the scope on it.

I have handled cape guns and one would be just about as good as a drilling in terms of having a rifle there. It would be, of course just a single shot shotgun. This drilling handles better, as a shotgun, than any gun I have. I have other doubles including Bernadelli.

I would get whichever one I could first. I would have no problem with a 2 barrel combination gun. Heck I want both too! There is a recent post here on the net of a gentleman who showed pictures of a wolf he shot with his combination gun. If I can find the link I will post it as the pictures and story are great.

Look at it this way, you get three guns not just one so right off thats a 66% discount!

My 16 gauge under 8mm rimmed is a beautiful, lovely thing, but the Savage .30-30 over 12 is my loafing gun. Virtually indestructable, acccurate, great deer rifle with 125 grain ballistic tip loads, and a 3 inch Brenneke slug will discourage just about anything. I also always carry three solids for the .30-30. They look silly, but they will plow through a lot of bone and muscle at fifty yards. Throw in my S&W 4" barreled .22 revolver and a small folding knife and I am ready for a great day in the boonies.

Terery

bluesman knows!

That Savage can take some wear and not worry. Thats a good idea there bluesman and they can't cost all that much. On some other post a Baikal combination gun was mentioned.

I like the idea of the .22 pistol as well and carry a Woodsman however just the combination gun alone is a lot of flexibility.

Combination gun story

doubletap,

As Savage 99 already suggested, the weight and handling of a drilling as opposed to a Cape gun depends on the individual gun. In general, most Cape guns aren't as high qualiy as most drillings (though there are certainly exceptions to that) and many Cape guns were often built pretty stoutly, since they were meant to be used hard.

I have three drillings, and the heaviest (a recent model Sauer 12x12x.30-06) weighs 7 pounds 6 ounces, if I recall correctly, without the scope, or just about the same as my older hammer Sauer/Daly 12x12x.30-30. But I also have an old hammer drilling in 16x16x9.3x72R that weighs under 7 pounds.

German combinations guns are often lighter than either drillings or Cape guns. My wife Eileen has a nifty little pre-WWII German O/U 16/9.3x72R that weighs around 6 pounds without the scope, and even with the scope weighs under 7 pounds.

The Savage O/U combo guns do make pretty good woods-loading guns, as my friend Bluesman points out. In fact one of the very first firearms I bought when a teenager was a Savage 20/.22 magnum and I shot a pile of game with it over the years. But eventually I got tired of only having a single-shot shotgun, and started acquiring drillings. Of course I could afford a little more gun by then....

This one:



Or, this one:

A modernized Remington 25 carbine in 357 Max would be a pretty cool walkabout rifle too! Make mine alone the lines of the 14 1/2 carbine, with a curved buttplate, pistolgrip stock, and full-length magazine tube. Maybe with an integral Weaver style base, like the IMI Timberwolf pump guns, but with a pistolgrip stock.

Jeff

I bought a Savage model 24 in .22lr over 20 gage for that purpose. It will put brenneke's into ~2 inches at 50 yards with the slug barrel. 6 shot and .22's round off the package. I haven't taken it out during deer season, as our season was fairly extended from 2 to 9 days, I don't tend to do a lot of loafing, and focus on deer during that time. It's accounted for a few rabbits thus far. I really don't do as much woods loafing as I'd like.

I can't say it's perfect, but a good GI .30 Carbine with softpoints is a hoot to walk the woods with.

This one is the one I use a bunch for woods loafing in the fall. An Austrian made single shot in .25-35 Winchester (6.5X52R) Have shot squirrels with it (75 grain cast bullets) and turkeys with 100 grain hornadys, have not had the opportunity on a deer yet but will (hopefully) in the near future. Weighs right at 6lbs with scope....one of my absolute favorite rifles

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I can see how that one would be a favorite. You can put me in your will if you like <grin>

Sako L461 222 or one like this: Sako AI 6PPC sporter.

Sako .222 would be the nutz....


Ingwe

If one is doing a walk about and just wants something for self-defense one is hard pressed to beat the M-1 carbine.

I used one in the service and it was the best walk about defensive weapon bar none.

DD,
Years before he died, my grandfather showed me his ranges scores from the army. They shot the Carbine all the way out to 300 yards.

I don't know what happened to that little booklet, but I sure wish it was in my safe.

The carbine had two peep sights, one for close range, about 50 yards IIRC and one for about 150 yards. Not real hard to flip sights. The sights were adjustable for windage and elevation. A 300 yard shot was not impossible under the right conditions. I never used one for this but a number of carbines were used with infrared lights for night sniping out to about 150 yards in Vietnam. Don't know how well they worked in that role though.

I just went and looked out of curiosity at the ballistics of the .357 mag and the .30 carbine loads for a rifle and for the 110 grain/carbine and the 110-125 grain mag load they are ballistic equals even the pressure is comparable.

They are a little on the light side here in Western Montana where a griz/blackie/moose can stomp one into the ground if they get a notion to but in most of the US they would make a good lite walk about rifle.

A Marlin 1894 in .327 Magnum with the follower tweaked to allow loading .32H&Rs, .32S&WLs, and .32S&Ws would be very tough to not like.

Jeff,

We do have pot growers and meth labs, and being small states other criminal elements from urban areas which can become oportunistic. The other thing is we do have poisonous snakes though uncommon as in areas such as the south or west. To me it becomes the Boy Scout Motto of being prepared.

As to guns has anyone used one of the Tauras Judge handguns. I could see these being pretty handy with 410/45 being used.

KNEW that was comin'......



Ingwe

a 22 PPC "pencil barrel" would be my t good too.

Still waitin on a .223AI to get out of the shop, so i can start shooting it...should be good for bunnies to bucks...


Ingwe

I know your buck load would feature a TSX, Ingwe, but what would you load for bunnies? A mild "Seafire" type load?

I remember popping a cottontail through the body with a 55 gr. FMJ about 25 years ago. It danced on its hindlegs after the impact and ran off, but not a drop of blood was found nor the bunny.

I think a 40 grain BT at about 1,500 fps would work better...

As for the OP's question, I'd love to have a falling block SS in .327 Federal Magnum with about a 28-30-in. slim barrel. If it could shoot .32 S&W target wadcutters accurately it would be quiet and effective on small game, and do a credible job on our fairly small whitetail inside 50 yards with H&R or Federal Magnum loads.

TSX, in the head.

Last small cal TSX I saw hit a prairie dog in the body went into pieces, even though they "don't" expand well....

Yep..TSX in the head...shot some bunnies with the 40 grain BTs and even with head shots you lose alot of the front half, and I like to eat them..

TSXs work pretty well on everything...but too expensive for high volume varminting...

Ingwe

...too many choices...

Savage 24 DL .22 Magnum/20ga. always rides in the truck...

If deer are in season however, Ruger Frontier in .358 Winchester. 220 grain Speer HotCores for deer and 180 grain Hornady Silhouette pistol bullets loaded down to 1500 fps for small game. Have shot grouse with this load with minimal damage...




Bob

Cool setup RJM! I like it.

Most of my life money has been really tight so I have never had a lot of options. I would go with a nice 308 carbine with some good deer bullets and some cast bullet loads. The cast bullet loads I had shot to point of aim out to about 100 yards. That said, I am learning a lot reading about all these other options, thanks!

Your idea is a good one though...!


Ingwe

Dangit! Every time I see your Frontier .358 I teeter on doing mine the same way. Right now it merely has a 3x fixed Weaver with a post in standard configuration; may try a Scout if I find one cheap enough...

Think you've said you just screwed on a Williams Shorty Ramp FS and then NECG aperture? Reckon anybody makes a folding or popup rear V sight that would attach to the quarter rib?


What is your data for small game load? I just found a bag of Rem. 180 gr. JHPs and I'm fixing to put them up in some new cases somewhere in the 1,500 to 2,000 fps range.

Also wondering if that company that makes the conversion shells that let's you shoot .32 ACP in .30 centerfires, makes one that lets you shoot .38 or 9mm in .35 CFs...can't think of company name right now.

I met up with RJM to do some shootin and though he had his .308 that day its setup the same way. It is a slick little package. It would take a little practice to get used to the Scout Setup but again it is a slick little package

25 WSSM

You're funny! No, the 25 WSSM is too much rifle for bunnies, unless you carry 1 of those Hammond Game Getter auxillary chambers to shoot the bunnies with.

How come you're not flying rescue missions in Haiti?

Jeff

I've had two rifles with the Game Getter and could never get them to feed properly............


Cuzz I'm building ships that will eventually be doing like missions.

Well, since everybody knows that WSSMs don't feed for $hit, the Game Getters will probably feed slick as snot on a door knob.

Jeff

Savage 24 always calls my name for this task . . . .

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=154908337

I like Savage 24s and think that the 24Vs in 223 over 20 gauge make a pretty useful truck gun. If you haven't read it yet, there is a great Savage 24 article by Marshall Stanton in the "tech notes" section, over on www.beartoothbullets.com.

Jeff

............RJM............I like that 358 Win Ruger Frontier. Sweet handling piece and a perfect bolt action woods rifle! Though I do wish my Frontier`s laminated stock had the checkering like your does.

As you show too, I also use a slip-on recoil pad.

I tried the scout scope concept for quite awhile, and although the target acquisition and aiming are very fast with both eyes open, the scout scope for my taste when hunting, just has too narrow a FOV. So, I sold my EER Nikon scout and I went back to the `ol conventionally mounted scope way on my Frontier.

PS.........Kinda which I had the stainless barrel too............Oh well!

Yes that is a great resource.

I am in the market for a 24F in 12 ga./223. right now. Bigger, but meets my needs.

BMT

I saw 1 recently for about $350 with black plastic. If you're interested, I can think about it and if I can remember where it was, I can go back and look it for you.

Jeff

Would love to have a .30-30 over 12ga.

Expat

Jeff:

That is a dandy offer, but I am cash poor at this time.

Gotta pay mortgage and stuff first.

I keep looking, tho'. I expect to free up some $$ this summer.

Again, thanks,

BMT

Let me note that the initial question from Jeff was for a woods loafer's RIFLE, not a combo or drilling or other exotic. IMO the three gents who voted for the Winchester 94 in .25-35 had it almost right. I would pick a Savage 99 in the calibre, unfortunately, they are so scarce, and many are so old, that it would be easier to find a decent .30-30 and rebarrel it. At last weekend's Albany gun show there was a gorgeous little 1899 deluxe carbine, 20" barrel, shotgun butt, straight grip, superfancy American walnut and checkering, and a Lyman tang sight with windage and elevation adjustment. Alas the bore was dark in the grooves so I didn't ask the price, which I am sure was astronomical. Ranges in the woods are short so a scope is usually superfluous, but if you need it, one can be added to a 99 with a Stith mount without drilling holes.

Most every weekend I carry a model 94 22 LR. I've been on the prowl for a Marlin 218 Bee or 25-20 for this purpose.

Joseph

Having owned a Savage 24 I feel they are very heavy for this type work.

22LR pistol

Depends on the 24. The .22LR/.410s are plus perfect, IMHO, and not heavy at all.

A modern Western woodsbumming rifle: Lightweight AR with turned down White Oak Armamnet barrel, carbon fiber fore end, skeleton stock and light 4x ACOG sight. Coupled with a 20 round mag, it is a joy to carry and shoot.

It is good enough to ring steel at extended ranges with ease. Not really a requirement for a woodsbumming gun, but a nice feature anyways. I built this rifle to be an "all around" gun anyways, so woodsbummng falls into one of the "all around" categories.

Usually if I am just bumming around and exploring, a .44 in a Milt Sparks rig is all I need.

I have a Remington 5mm rimfire magnum that would make a great loafer's rifle. Although it's not legal for deer I know it would drop one quickly with a head shot. And it's accurate enough to easily but a bullet below a deer's ear at 100 yards.

I was thinking about a couple more rifle/cartridge combinations that might be fun:

Anschutz 1733 in 22 Hornet.
Marlin 62 in 256 Win Mag or 30 U.S. Carbine.
Marlin 90 combination gun in 218 Bee over 410.
Sako 78 in 22 Hornet.
Savage 23 in 22 Hornet, 25-20, & 32-20.
Winchester 43 in 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 25-20, & 32-20.

Jeff

Here in the southeast, the .22 magnum cartridge has been the classic woodsloafer's round for fifty years. For the man who actually lives in the woods, this is the one round that does it all, usually in low cost Savage and Marlin bolt actions. In earlier days Mossbergs filled a similar role, but today the most seen is some version of the Marlin 25.

Each spring, the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources has an auction of firearms confiscated from various violaters during the past year. While you see all sorts of guns, including some vary high grade rifles and shotguns, the great bulk of those taken from the good ole boy woodsloafers are 12 gauge single barrel shotguns, pump action shotguns and .22 magnum rifles.

My own upscale woodsloafing rifles are a Winchester Model 61 .22 Magnum and a CZ 452 with Mannlicher stock. The former has been retired because of it's collector value but the latter is a constant companion on my four wheeler.

The Older 20 gauge versions are light and handy.

The Model 24F (that also came in 12 gauge) is pretty stout.

BMT

I have a CZ 452 FS in 22 LR that I never use and have thought that the same rifle in 22 MRF would be a fun and useful rifle to own. I guess that if I want 1, I'd better get moving.

Jeff

I've read that the .22 Mag is a favorite of poachers but that doesn't make it a goog woods loafer's rifle for me. Is that caliber legal for deer anywhere? It isn't where I live.

Here is my current wood bum rifle:

223, McMillan, Talleys, Leupold 6x42

The 22 MRF used to be legal for shooting deer in ME, but I don't know if it still is or if it is legal anywhere in the U.S. The 22 MRF is popular with herd control shooters, particularly when used with a suppressor and night vision equipement.

Jeff

That would be perfect, IMO.

It's still legal in Vermont, to the last of my knowledge.

Very nice! I like my 16" Bushy Dissipator loaded with 77s, too. (and my 44 SBH).

About 30-odd years ago, Savage offered a Camper Special 24 that featured a .357 Mag and (later) Max barrel over a 20 ga. with 18.5-in. bbls. The package came with a conventional and a pistol-grip only. The idea being you could switch it to the pistol grip in the evening to swing around all handylike inside your camper for defense.

One of those, particularly with a Max chamber, would come pretty darn close to perfection, too.

If I'd known then what I do now I'd have gone and picked up about four of those rascals.

P.S. I liked those articles on Beartooth, but why haven't they written anything new since late 2005?

Thinking that a Mini 14, stainless synthetic, 9 or faster twist, factory peeps/post, TSX for most things, and a highly reduced load that does not even cycle the action for the rest might work for me.

Otherwise, I find a 12(versatile) or 20(lightweight) gauge pump with a short deer barrel with sights works just fine for everything, so long as I can change loads as needed between slugs, shot, and buckshot.

In reality, most of my weekends in the woods are spent with a 22 of some sort, either a bolt with scope or a 10/22 with sights.

That would be great. .38 SP for small game and 200 gr .357 max loads for medium game. Shotgun for birds. Super combo.

Expat

I've never seen 1 of the Savage 24 Camper Specials in 357 over 20 gauge. IIRC, they had a brushed chrome finish on the metal. If I ever find 1 in nice shape at a fair price, I might be tempted to buy it. I have 2 of the 22 over 20 gauge Savage 24 Camper Specials and find them to be too short and too light to shoot the shotgun barrel comfortably.

Jeff

Lemme know when 1 is for sale.

BMT

Course, I am cash poor. . . . .

How 'bout some girly pics here? I won't tell Ingwe...

I have two..A win. M-94 SRC in 25-35 that I have been shooting deer with for about 65 years now, not to mention my first half dozen elk I guess...

The other is my lovely 5 lb. 19 inch barreled 6x45 (6mm-223) Sako in a beautiful English style stock that looks like an English .375 H&H that got caught in the wash and shrunk. It shoots tiny groups with the 75 gr. Barnes X or the 75 gr. GS customs HPs..Kills deer very well indeed and will reach out there and touch one of our local bobcats or coyotes, or even a wolf perhaps.

I'd like to know the same, and I'll figure out the cash part.

I didn't read through all the responses but I see a lot of variation. My choice with be a Marlin 1894 in 25/20 with a peep sight and thin leather carry strap. Read Francis E. Sell. Plateau Hunter

Held an interams mauser in 7.62x39 today. Synthetic stock, iron sights.

Nice knockabout gun.

MT

CZ's little 527 carbine in 7.32x39 is a neat little rig, too.

+1 on the CZ 527 in 7.62X39. It's my choice for a woods loafer's rifle. Here's mine striking a pose. Leupold 1.75 X 6 X 36 scope. Shoots nice little 1"-1 1/4" 100 yd. groups with Remington or Federal softpoint factory ammo. Haven't loaded anything for it yet.

That rifle will shoot better than that, with very little fiddling with the load.....

Ive shot two of them now, and they were both amazing !!!

Cool beans

ingwe

Either of these fit the bill for me.

6.5x54MS




Marlin 357 with 16 1/4" tube

It deserves some of my time. I need to work up a load for it. I have the powder, dies, bullets, etc. Bought a bunch of Sellier and Bellot soft point ammo for it about a year ago and have had no real reason to load anything for it yet. This ammo, while not quite as accurate as the domestic stuff I've tried, is pretty zippy, running out of the muzzle at just under 2,500 fps.

I was surprised to find that this rifle came out of the box with a free floated barrel. Even more surprising was that it has free floating steel pillars at the front and rear action bolts.

What kind of fiddling do you recommend for improving accuracy, ingwe?

I remember seeing this pic before Steelhead. I've got the .44 mag version of it, including the same sights.

Id try some Hornady 123gr. boolits with some good factory brass, and make your loads consistent..by the book...like you would for anything else..I get a feeling that not a LOT of time is put into factory rounds that they expect to be shot thru an SKS or AK...

ingwe

You SUCK!


Ingwe

I happen to have a box of those 123 gr softpoint Hornady boolits you recommend. What about your powder choices?

Sorry...no data here, and I can't bring up the Hodgdon website right now...check it out, Id guess a medium burn rate like a 4895 or Win 748 but refer to the books/websites...
Also bear in mind they consider most of these to be shot in semi-autos so theres prolly gonna be a ball powder bias...
If you can find data with Ramshot TAC..I like that one..

Ingwe

I've looked at their data before. Seems that H-335 was one of the powders in the proper burn rate along with 4895, like you mentioned.

I've got about 14 pounds of Accurate 2200C on hand. I'll probably at least give that a try. In the limited testing I've done with 2200C in my .223, it is quite accurate and since I have plenty of it, I'll probably start there.

Thanks for the help ingwe!

Bruinruin have you tried any of the Wolf 154gr softpoints? I've found them suprisingly accurate in my 527 in 7.62x39.

I've been wanting to try playing with some light loads using .32 swc or wc and maybe some .30 cal fmj for small game but so far haven't had a chance.

Neat little rifles.

I posted on the reloading forum last year, asking if any one had tried .311" or .312" pistol bullets in this caliber. I've got 3 or 4 boxes of .32 cal pistol bullets I'd like to cook up some light loads with. No luck with that post.

I read about using Trailboss in rifle cases over on the Ask the Gunwriters forum. Check that out. Sounds like that might be the way to go for reduced loads using pistol bullets in the 7.62.

This thread has been hijacked 2x, that means its time for Curvy Kate . . . .

Well it's about time someone posted some scantily clad ladies. I was starting to run out of off topic stuff to post.

(Sorry for getting off topic here)

seeing as anything with a 224" bore is not legal for deer hunting where I live,..I'd have to go with a Sako L461 or AI action with a 20" barrel in 6mm/223, or maybe a 25 on the same case.........a McMillan Sako Hunter pattern stock and a 4X Leupy lightweight scope in Leupold mounts.....

I have the above AI action and McMillan stock with a .17 Rem barrel in it....maybe I should start ordering the rest of the parts.....

The older I get the lighter the rifle needs to be...

My Browning B-92 in .44 Mag was a gift from Dad back in the mid �80�s. With a 240g FP over 24g H110 it will certainly do for deer and elk. Have not tried it on rabbits but I remain convinced it is �enough gun�. (Might be eating stew instead of roasted of fried, though...) Ten in the mag is one reason this rifle often went camping with the family as it was our protection against two and four-legged predators and varmints.

So many good choices. A .30-30 or a compact .308 Win/ 7mm-08/.260 Rem/.243 would work, either with iron sights or a 2-7x.

Nice thing about a .30-30 or .308 Win is that you could shoot Accelerators loaded with the bullet and at the velocity of your choice. Shouldn�t be hard to get them to shoot to the same point of impact as 130-170g bullets, at least out to 150-200 yards or so, giving a lot of flexibility.

My .257 Roberts would fill the bill nicely.

20 years a go I had an old speer manual that had loads for a .430 round ball over some rediculously small amount of powder. ( i think they went maybe 500 fps. I shot up 4 or 5 boxes of these round balls out of a SBH and could shoot 1-2" groups at 20 yds.

I wonder how they would work out of a carbine, if accurate they might be just the ticket for rabbits, grouse and the like. Of course they would need to be single loaded.

Anybody got a old speer manula they could post a couple of the loads?

Good Lord.

That, is perfection.

BMT, you is the Debil! Keep it up son, or pm me your links. A boy can't think about rifles ALL the time!

Heck, hot wimmen aside, a previous post reminded me I got that little Trapper .30/30, that needs some woodsloafing time.

Need to put up some 100 grain plinkers at about 1K fps for some mild fun. First, though, gotta replace the rear sight elevator which has gone MIA.

I think she would be a hoot to loaf around in the woods with. I love a woman with curves.

I'd like to do a bit of woods loafing with a Paradox. That would've been handy in Indiana. I did most of mine there with a 20ga, but during serious deer hunting used a fully rifled bbl'd 12ga.

Here in Utah, I like the 223AI. There's nothing I'm likely to come across that I can legally shoot that I wouldn't shoot with it.

BMT, looks like you got your bunny!

I have owned an 1894 357 and know what it will do on deer, a good one. I also owned a TC Contender carbine in 6 TCU, with an 85 BTHP or 87 Hornady (non vmax), it's a nice round (quiet, mild recoil, nice punch), no premi bullet needed at it's speeds. Ray's knows all about the 6/223s ability, as did Sam Fadala.....well he used a 6/Deuce.

The 223 Kimber Montana would be nice, but the 6x223 would be easier than the TCU, no forming, and a tad more punch.

The CZ 7.62 is a handy carbine as is, lots of modest loads, ball to SP for small game to deer, not a bad option at all.

That said a CZ in 6.5 Grendel would be my choice in that platform but a custom bbl would be needed.

A very practical round would be a 6mm BR. I have shot deer to 400 yds with it using a 105 Amax in 8" twist, but for woods deer I would use a TSX or 95 BT, and SSII in 90gr would be a top 3rd option. Light loads for rabbits.....well.....if you don't want to worry about head shooting them w full loads, or 'field dressing' em on impact, then you can load down a 70 gr or so to 1400-2000 fps w/ loads here:

http://www.accuratereloading.com/6mmbrr.html

Just some options....but for simplicity and factory load variety a Kimber Lil Sky in 223 would be an almost no brainer, w/more reach than the 357, With shot placement. A 6/223 on that platform would be better yet IMO if one wants to roll their own.

Her name is Jamie Eason . . . . . .

She can wear a little black dress, too . . . . .

I've got two favorite woods loafing rifles.
A NavyArms 92 trapper clone in .45 Colt. and an origonal Winchester 92 in 32-20 (mfg. in 1915)

Seems I usually take a handgun along also. Lately it's been my Kahr P9. Ay 23 oz. with 8 rounds on board, it's a joy to pack.

BMT; Thanks for the lovely pictures!!!! Sure perks up this old man!

Virgil B.

I have a Savage 24D, 22 Magnum/20gauge 3' magnum. I have a Williams peep on the back and a Firesite front.

It is sighted in for 22 Mag, 40 grain WW Solids and HP's.

The full choke shotgun barrel patterns on the sights and shoots slugs to poa for elevation but 3 in left at 75 yards.

I carry a 22magnum or 357 magnum with it.