Does anyone have any experience shooting Rem's Traingular barrels, w/r accuracy?
I'd be interested in hearing how well they shoot? Lots of them for sale on the Internet, and if they shoot, I might buy one, specifically in 223.

TIA,

Don

I always wondered if they had studied how accuracy was affected by which way the triangle lay in the channel.

Good question!!

I don't have a 223 but I do have a 25-06. It shoots sub-moa, which is good enough for hunting. Remington calls it a Model 700 XHR (eXtreme Hunting Rifle). It has a camo stock, a triangular barrel, and the externally adjustable trigger. It is a pretty decent package, but the action isn't as smooth as their 700 CDLs and BDLs.

The triangular part of the barrel doesn't lay in the barrel channel, only the round part of the barrel. The triangular barrel doesn't go all the way back to the chamber. It ends just inside of the front of the stock.

Don,

I can't tell you about a 223, but I'm as happy as can be with my VTR 308.

I have several loads for it using 168 grain match bullets that I expect to go 1/2 moa (often less) for three shots, and that's out to 300 yards if there's no wind.

I've also shot many ten shot 1" groups at 100 yards using an old M1A favorite: LC M852 match brass, thrown charges of 41.5 grains of H4895 and a 168 grain match bullet. On a cool day it will do it without cooling the barrel between shots.

I expect a VTR in 223 would do even better having more steel and less hole in the barrel.

mathman

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I always that that triangular barrel thing was pure asthetics. Kind of like a gimmick.

If it truly enhances accuracy, I'll be surprised.

Edw

I didn't buy mine because of the triangle, a friend had one and I liked the way it handled. Then one showed up at a little shop I frequent and I picked it up on a whim, the excuse being to keep the round count down on my hunting rifles.

I haven't done the calculations but it's likely a stiffness issue. For a fixed cross sectional area the moment of inertia of the cross section may be increased by moving more of the cross section away from its centroid.

So if the cross section of Remington's profile has a greater moment of inertia than a round barrel of the same weight then it will be stiffer and that potentially means more accurate.

No matter what it is a sales gimmick, everything "different" is.

I'm suprised they didn't put serrations on the top, that way it could double as a tree pruner and fish scaler .

The slotted muzzle brake can probably open bottles.

If it shoots, it doesn't matter if the barrel is square!

if stevens can make a $235 bolt gun that shoots factory fodder into a 1.5" group then the friggen remington folks should have every rifle the make shooting .25" cloverleafs for what they charge.

... Talk about a multi-porpose tool...

Very funny, John!

Well, I can say a little about my 223 VTR................

Mine does way better than I expected right outta the box, ie, no bedding or stock change which I was anticipating having to do.

I dropped a 3x9 scope on it, which was the only extra around, made up loads with LC brass, 55 gr V-maxes, & 75 gr A-maxes & RL-15 & VArget & starting shooting, after UBC'ing the barrel. I also did some barrel polishing before the UBC & even the 1st cleaning was a breeze.

Shoot bugholes with both bullets & both bullets more or less in the same group at 100 yards.

It did, however, need a trigger re-spring job & I had the firing pin hole bushed & the pin turned..........typical poor fit on Rem's small bolt face & flowing primers waaaay too much.

Haven't tried optimizing the loads yet but when it warms up a bit, 4895, TAC & 335 will get a wringing out. A higher mag scope will probably end up on it as well........maybe a 4-14x which won't hurt groups either.

I didn't buy it for the triangular barrel, I just bought the package I wanted (walking varmint rifle) & the VTR was it.

MM

I also bought a .223 VTR, not for the triangular barrel but for the "9" twist. I have been delighted with accuracy and haven't had any problems with primer cratering.
If I needed another .223 for under $700, I would buy another without hesitation.

Same reason I just picked up a 204 R.

The men from Remington who designed the Tri-barrel are serious shooters and knew what they were doing.

Also beats having to look at a "Pretty Boy Browning".

If you like it, buy it, but don't buy the hype that it's superior. Never saw a Pope with a Triangular barrel.

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate them.
Sounds like they shoot very well. I like what you all say about the accuracy.
And, I didn't know about the barrel being round on the bottom in the stock's barrel channel, and triangular forward of that.
I must say they look good. Didn't like them initially, but they are growing on me.. It's a geriatric thing...
There is a triangle barreled rifle in my future.
Thanks again,

Don

I just picked up a XHR from my local fun shop today in 7 RM. Swore I wouldn't buy one but when I saw it in person it does kind of grow on you. I'm still up in the air on the stock and trigger, but I think I'm going to ring it out a bit before I start fiddling with it.

I have seen an unusual amount of used ones for sale on various forums I frequent, I have always wondered why.

That's a part of the reason I asked the question, there are a whole lot of used ones for sale, which begs the question, why?

Maybe a bunch of folks who couldn't shoot a 2" group with a Mickey Coleman built 10 pound 308 and good handloads thought the "accuracy enhancing" triangular barrel would turn them into Tony Boyer or David Tubb.

Then at the range reality hit.

Seems that remington hawks the triangular bbl as being faster cooling because of increased surface area. But I think there would be more surface area if it was left round. You know, "the shortest distance between two points..." thing.
Am I wrong, again?

It's more surface area relative to a round barrel of the same weight.

Has anyone swapped out the VTR stock for another like a McMillan?

I have a laminated Rem varmint stock to put mine in, but it shoots so well as-is that I can't get motivated to make the swap.

We have had excellent feedback from all our VTR customers, and primer cratering is another matter altogether...Remington issued a statement in 2008 concerning that...it actually has somerthing to do with the way they are doin their bolt faces around the firing pin hole and has, and I quote"NO bearing on high pressure..."

My Rem7 Predator does it routinely( craters primers) but absolutely no high pressure is indicated..

Ingwe

The "cratered" or flowed primers can allow primer shard material to eventually build up enough to not allow the bolt to cock.

In addition, the firing pin on many/most 700's, in particular on the .378" bolt face, is not adequately supported behind the face of the bolt, hence it can & does slap the side of the hole when fired, allowing the possibility of irregular firing/lock time. Blown primers at low pressures are also a fairly common malady.

Bushing the bolt eliminates this issue as the bushing extends back behind the boltface & thus supports the firing pin.

Greg Tannel of Gre-Tan Rifle explains it fully on his website:

Gre-Tan FP Bushing

MM

MM; thanks for the info...the buildup of shard material has never been an issue for me...but is good info, so Ill remember to include the bolt face when cleaning time comes, and give it a good scrub, occasionally, as you can guess, a LOT of rounds get shot on a given day at gophers or PDs..

Have not had any of the other problems you mentioned , but my only post 2008 model is a Model Seven...I don't suppose theres much difference there..anyway, thanks again for the heads up...Ill scrub it and keep an eye out for the other possible issues...

Ingwe

I always figured the purpose of the triangle barrel was to allow for easy cutting of the muzzle brake. With the barrel shaped the way it is, it takes three quick passes of a saw across the top rather than an expensive drill and crowning job to get a muzzle brake.

On your VTR's does the porting work work?


My VTR on it's way to get a salt-bath so I have not had a chance to shoot it yet.

OK, of the same weight. Would a fluted bbl have a worse or better weight/surface ratio?

At the same weight a fluted barrel has more surface area than a round one.

MM,

Good posting, good info.
Thank you.

Did you have Greg bush your firing pin hole?

Don

How does the triangular compare to a fluted of same weight?

That's a lot more detailed calculation/answer depending on the flutes.

The mathematical abstraction is this: For two figures in the plane (circle, triangle, circle with dents like flutes, star, etc) containing the same area the one with the greatest perimeter will produce the most surface area for the outside of a cylinder when that plane figure is the perpendicular cross section of the cylinder.

Theoretically, I could see the triangle as a way of tuning the barrel harmonics, so I doubt it's snake oil.

The ones with the muzzle brake I think are pretty silly, but I have seen some recently without, and they look like a nice deal.

As for the seemingly large number of used ones for sale, I would say that becuase they are priced just above the SPS model, there have been quite a few sold and in these economic conditions rifles are often the first to go.

Buddy of mine bought one, a .223 with a 9 twist. Shooting 75 gr AMAX and 73 gr bergers well under 1" several loads about .350-.400. Pretty good IMOP. His also has the built in brake..which seemed kinda silly, but the rifle doesn't move and you can see impacts appear on the target.

Lefty C

Yes, I did. $64 including return postage.........the bolt went to him & back in exactly 7 days.

He did a beautiful job; he has a lathe dedicated exclusively to bolt bushing work.

MM

MM,

Excellent!
Good info you post, as always.
I apprecite learning about Greg and what he does.

Don

Not my pics........took them from another site; mine looked exactly like the pic before I did the FP bushing.

Can't imagine anyone would want to have a rifle with the brass looking like the before pic.

MM

Before Bushing


After Bushing

Don, my nephew bought a one of those chambered in .30-06 this year. It hasn't been shot yet but I've handled it. His has a regular (not heavy) contour barrel with the triangle cuts just past the forend tip. IMHO it makes the muzzle too light for my tastes but you may like that.

Terry

Terry,

Thanks for the info. Especially about the rifle's balance.

MM,

Excellent pix. They sure send the message, loud and clear.

+1

Neighbor's rifle in 308 shoots 1/2"-3/4" with only a trigger tune. The VTR is a easy to swing. No doubt tht that the barrel is more rigid than a sporter barrel, which is what you should be comparing it to.

I recently bought a VTR in .223 and love it. Shoots great just over 1in groups at 100yds with Hornady 55gr V-max. Light and easy to carry, made an off hand running shot at 75yds on a red coyote. I know I couldn't have made that shot with my 30-06. I am getting ready to start working up a load with 75gr A-max if the weather gets better. If i figure out how to post a picture I will.

i have a VTR in .223 Rem It will shoot under .5 inch (five shot groups) all day long if i do my part. I worked up some loads and it likes 69gr matchkings over 24.5 grs of Varget. the short barrel makes for a great walking rifle i find myself grabbing it over anything else in the safe. As for the break it will be comming off as soon as im done calling coyotes and i can spare it for a while. i dont like the"excessive" noise that comes with the break.

Thanks everyone for the good info.
I appreciate it, mucho!!!

So no one bought these rifles because of the triangular bbl?

Just happened to be the right package....

Kinda like getting caught on a date with a fat girl.

"Oh, I was just giving her a ride...."

JM

I'm not sure if that gun could shoot accurately enoungh for me to look past the ugly. Tacticool style isn't for me.

Do they shoot triangular bullets?

Hey, Dood............if you ain't ever tried a fat girl, you don't know what you're missin'...................

MM

Slap 'em on the thigh and ride the wave in!

actually it was the fact that i had the money in my pocket and it was the only short model 700 the store had in 223, so really it was like the fat girl at closing time;)