I have never gotten the point of ultra mags and the big weatherby mags (7mm weatherby and up) as "hunting" cartridges. When you really think about it, they dont kill animals any deader, I have NEVER seen any difference in how quick they kill the animal, and to me all they do is recoil alot harder wich makes people alot less accurate. accuracy is everything. An animal shot in the guts is going to run a HELL of a long ways no matter if you shoot it with a 223 or a 458. From what i have seen, alot of people are accurate with 270's 06's ect... but as soon as they pick up a magnum and especially ultra mags and the larger weatherby's, their accuracy goes out the window. When you compare a 30-06 to a 300 ultra or weatherby, Its the exact same bullet coming out of both guns, but the ultra's and weatherby's are burning alot more powder and have alot more recoil (wich make you less accurate) for a little flatter trajectory and the same results. I see people all the bragging how they have all these big magnums and all i do is laugh at them. Alot of people have the mind set that if they have a big "SUPER" magnum that they will kill more animals. In reality, i garuntee they are not killing any more animals than me or anybody else just because they have a big ass gun. In fact, in the long run ill proble end up recovering more if not all my animals just because i hunt with a gun that im not affraid of and i can put it in the boiler room. To me only point to have a big azz "super" magnum is if your always shooting more than 500 yards. Even then, Ill NEVER call those people who shoot those type of ranges hunters. That aint huntin!!! Thats shootin!!! Its not that hard to close in on animals to a reasonalbe shooting distance. all you have to do is be smart and use what the good lord gave ya. Now i dont have any ill feelings towards people who have a ultra or big weatherby because theirs alot of people who have them plainly just because they like the rifle and cartridge. I do have a problem with the people who think they have to have one because they think it will help them kill more and because they think it makes them look like a bad ass. I do like magnums (my favorit rifle rifle is my 338 win mag) but i will never have a ultra mag or a big weatherby mag.

I had a hunter complain about his .30-06. He was not satisfied with the terminal performance. Instead of listening to my advice on chosing a proper bullet and fieldpractical shooting training; the next year he came back with a .300 Win. Mag.

Decent round in itself - but in the context of this guy an answer looking for a question.

That was a nice little rant....with a lot of truth to it.

As long as there are trophy hunters looking to maximize the top end terminal performance of their rifles for their limited time afield, there will be super-magnums.

As long as there are TRUE dedicated long range shooters and hunters, there will be super-magnums.

As long as we as Americans maintain the "more/bigger/faster/louder/stronger is better" mentality, there will be super-magnums.

The above can certainly be seen in those that feel it is necessary to take a .300 RUM to the deer woods to kill a 90lb whitetail doe at 80 yards. (I've seen it...and he had the 20x scope to accomodate it)

And unfortunatly this is embraced by the market because that mentality sells a lot of stuff every year that people don't need.

I think there are those that honestly and responsibly utilize that extra powder capacity to increase their range or deliver bigger heavier bullets. But as you said, I think there are several more that get caught up in the pissing contest and just want it to prove something. That is a certain level of un-realization that takes years to get over. Then one day they just have an epiphany and say "hey, not every deer/elk/bear is shot at 500 yards...I can just use a .30-06 and save the shoulder some..."

What's the point of no paragraphs?

variety is the spice of life - that's the point!

I was going to make a point but I got completely mesmerized my cal74's avatar.

+1!
Now, why are we here again?

Mercy me! Do I detect more that a little bit of "Holier than thou" in your rant?

Kind of reminds me of the bow hunters who despise gun hunters, because "bow hunters" are the only TRUE hunters...



I noticed that he didn't bother to proofread the rant, either, or bother to correct the mis-spelled words....

Not to sound too sarcastic to the original poster, but I don't even bother to read things people write that they clump all together and don't even try to do a little proof reading.




Hear ya go, looks even better duplicated

I understand what the OP is saying and there are a lot of valid points in that paragraph IMHO....when these conversations pop up,I try to remember that at one time both the 30/06 and the 270 Winchester were considered red-hot blistering rounds,magnums in every sense, when we moved from black powder and the 30-30.....

I've observed that two kinds of people gravitate to the larger magnum 30's;those who know exactly what they are doing....and those that don't have a clue.....but the guys who know what they are doing would likely do as well with about any caliber they picked up and hunted with...

But the closing statement by the OP sorta caught me off guard when he said he likes the 338WM because near as I can tell the 7mm Weatherby is nothing more than a necked down 338 in case capacity; and the only difference between a 338 Win Mag and a 300 RUM is a bit more powder capacity and where you stick the bullet....

So it seems we might be shaving these distinctions a little thin.....

You consistently use phrases like: "less accurate & being afraid of".

If a mag is not for you...so be it. There are advantages in the right situations...

EXPERIENCED shooters know their limitations and chances are if someone has a few mags, they can handle them well.

Your post is mainly speculation...

It's the summer heat I'm telling ya.....

It does that, doesn't it?

For where I hunt I simply don't need the magnums. Sold 'em. Got tired of putting 1/4 can of powder in each case just to get the same results I get with the 6.5, 7x57 and '06. This year I'm trying the 257 R with Partitions.

She keeps that up and I'm thinking I'd like to be her chiropractor.

I'm glad you cleared the air on this.
Some folks can, and, do, use a bigger hammer for a given nail - taint for us to judge, nor is it worth getting the loin cloth in a bunch.

What the point of shooting a smaller, lighter bullet with a big case capacity. If your going to go up in case capacity, you might as well go up in bullet size so you can kill bigger stuff.

I am a avid bow hunter, but i dont bow hunt during rifle season. By no means did i mean for this to be "im holier than thou" post.

Huh??

"You can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself.": Ricky Nelson

Doesn't mean you get to call my GF ugly.

I tend to agree with what the OP is trying to say. I do think that large, heavy magnum cartridges have a place though, especially if you are hunting Dangerous Game.

To paraphrase a commonly used saying on the cigar forums I frequent: "Like what you shoot, shoot what you like."

I already have a crick in my neck.

Idaho: Well in theory yes, but the truth is there are no commonly hunted North American animals that are not killed neatly with either the 338 or the 300 RUM with good bullets.Pretty much what one will do,the other will do...and that includes brown bear as well.......that was my point.

But to expand a bit on what you say,200-220 gr bullets in the 300 RUM seems like a really good idea to me, too! I doubt the elk will tell the difference....

Alright Huckleberry I'll bite.... Tell us what does your .338 Win Mag do that could be done with a .338-06 or a .35 Whelan for that matter?

The point is people like them.

IF they can shoot them well, that�s fine� if not, they sell them and move along.

It�s like a person who likes Jeeps (like me) saying �What�s the point of Sports Cars?�... Some folks like my bride, like them.

Things are what they are, given you like the 30-06 and can handle it� that the round for you, If you want a bit more range then a Magnum is just your Ticket, given you can shoot it well�

Me I like the 338WM�

I say make those darn Ultramags and Weatherby mags illegal. That will end the argument.

Seriously though, I say use a cartridge and bullet that are capable of cleanly dispatching your game under any and all circumstances in which you would take the shot (and are capable of placing the bullet on target). No more complicated than that.

Now if you will excuse me, I have to go clean my Ultramags and Weatherby mags.

I would have to say that the NEED for an ultra mag would be for those who hunt in locales that would justify long shots on tough game. I don't hunt out west in say Montana or Wyoming on a regular basis. But, a good friend of mine lives in Cody and is an avid hunter. Some times you get a 50 yard shot sometimes it's 500. If I regularly hunted elk or sheep in mountainous terrain I would own a 7mm or 300 Ultra Mag. Not that I couldn't stalk closer to the animal but sometimes day light is running out fast and packing opportunity on it's back. So in that case a cartridge that hits as hard at 500 yards as a 30-06 does at 100 might be worth a look.
I live were my shots are within 100 yards usually and they may come up quick. Therefore I hunt with a Ruger#1 RSI 30-06. It fits the terrain. You'll only get one accurate shot and comfortable carry are what count. Not saying this rig won't flatten an elk at 300 yards!

I`ll agree with the OP in part.

But as long as one "CAN" consistently handle the recoil and shoot them "WITH" consistent accuracy, then there is no real reason not to own a big magnum,,"IF",,one chooses to own one.

On the other hand, if anyone cannot handle the recoil, which leads to flinching and a reduction in accuracy and finds them less enjoyable to shoot, then it is better for that individual to use a more manageable, a more enjoyable cartridge to shoot and hunt with that will still get the job done.

Needed or not, more speed and power sells, whether it be in a car, boat, plane, from bullets, or anything else where forward motion is involved. Human nature in many dictates more speed and power.

The problem with a few shooters and hunters, is that they sometimes go beyond their tolerable limits in picking a magnum cartridge, using questionable judgement in the process and in some cases later regretting their purchase. With some, their original motives might have been to keep up with their buddies who own the bigger magnums.

Where most of us wouldn`t, if someone instead chooses to own a 300 or 338 RUM as examples for deer and elk hunting where 300 yards is their max range, then why not as long as he can effectively handle and enjoy them.

In and of themselves, there is nothing wrong with the "big" magnums. The problems instead lie with those, whom their desires and wants clearly exceed their physical and/or tolerable capabilities.

The OP does have a lot of valid points. I am fully aware that I could cleanly and humanely kill any deer in Texas with the proper bullet and a well placed shot with my .223. A .458 Lott will not make it any deader. I have many rifles in many calibers and I shoot as much as I can. The fun for me is in the variety like some people have said. I like to try new and different things. You can't make all comparisions of calibers on paper either. Some rifles just fit me and others don't. If they fit me they give me great confidence in shooting them if they are fairly accurate. I don't know how to make paragraphs either.

Why can't it be that some people just like to screw with stuff. They get a gun all figured out and move on to something more interesting and challenging. Mags have a place in the hunting and shooting world it just depends on the users needs. My father always told me "dead is dead" and that is very true reguardless if it was killed with a .17 through the eye or a .338 throught the heart. I ventured away from the Mags and went to .25 cal rifles but now I am back to them shooting at distatance and have a new found respect for them. I love my 257 wby and think that it is the stuff for deer and antelope sized game. I have yet to have an animal take a step after a 100gr bullet running 3700fps hits their side. But, out past 600yds that longer bullet with a higher bc is what you have to have to be consistantly sucessful at longer distances.

Yup. Gonna need a razor blade reload for this one.

I like guns. The more the merrier and the more variety the better.

Reading a poorly assembled wall of text that aSSumes a bit too much is more irritating than the choice of cartridge someone else makes..

I need a chiropractor from just watching.

I own 2 magnums, both 7's. I like 'em and they are fine shooting rifles. The recoil is not what I would consider bad, but my wife would probably not enjoy shooting either one.

Do they flatten the trajectory vs. a 7/08 or 280.....a little.

Do they carry more energy than a 7/08 or 280.....a little.

One of them is a 7RM that sports a 26" tube and long action, so there is a trade off in weight and size. The other is a 7WSM, short and compact, so with it you can have your cake and eat it too.

Are they necessary? Nope, not for most of my hunting. I bought them because I love 7MM rifles. I have a 7/08, 7MM Rem Mag. and 7 WSM.

Some may say that is dumber than buying a magnum and I would have to agree, but since it's my money, I figure I'll buy what I like.


JM

Cal has quite the figure. He must workout......

Uh...okay. So you draw the line in sand in front of the .338 Win Mag instead of behind it. Good for you. One could place your .338 WM into the same category as the ultra / Weatherby mags too, couldn't they?

So, what's the point of.........................ranting about someone else's choice of firearm? What's the skin of your nose if someone choose to hunt whitetail (or groundhog) with a .375 H&H? Why do you give two whits what someone chooses to hunt with? And who get's to decide that 500 yards is no longer a "hunting" distance but a "killing" distance? You?

It sounds as if someone with a bigger gun than yours mocked you for your choice of a "whimpy" cartridge and put a burr under your saddle.

Oh, and I don't own a single rifle that would qualify under your "pointless ultra mag" unless the 7mm RM is one...

My response to the OP is:

Cuz we can. It is the American Way.

Why do I usually take my 300+ fps compound bow deer hunting instead of my old compound that thows them at about 225 fps to deer hunt, they both kill them when the arrow is properly released? Cuz I can. It is the American way.

Why does the housewife up the street have a Cadillac Escalade to go to the gym, salon and grocery store? Cuz she can. It is the American way. You sure aren't going to see me drive a SMART car to work because it is sufficient to get me there.

Why did my parents neighbor build a 4500 square foot log home with a 5 car garage when it is just the two of them and no kids? Cuz they can. It is the American way.

OK. Now my rant is over too.

I think the biggest point of some of the larger cased magnums is that it allows a hunter to decrease the margin of error associated with the rifle. It also allows for a heavier-for-caliber slug that takes advantage of ballistic coefficient and sectional density to project power further downrange. In order to harness the benefits, the hunter has to know exactly what he's doing.

Then, as the OP suggests, there are guys who buy a heavy magnum because its a man cartridge and they want to be more man than the next guy. They could benefit from a lighter-kicking cartridge and are probably not good enough shots in the field to notice the 3 or 4 inch flatter trajectory over a 300 magnum vs a 30-06.

But, I do think there are people who are good enough to harness the benefits of the RUM cartridges and such. They know how to use the cartridges and I tip my cap to them. I'm not one of them, so I won't buy a fast magnum and think I'm any better than I was with my 270 or 30-06. Just because its not for me, doesn't mean I'm not going to support the person who feels that they are the bee's knees.

I think that new cartridges and rifle variations are what keeps the firearms industry in business and I thank the bigger-better folks as they consistently trade up and put more money into the companies that continue to make great 270s and 30-06s.

What's the point of a 30-06 or .270?? When other rounds can do it better??? Tons of rounds are great,I sure wouldn't want to be limited to just standard rounds, That would be no fun at all!I also wouldn't want the standard rounds to go away. What's the point of MY 338 edge?? Well the point is it does excellent at long range and is super accurate, that's the point...

Show up on any given range day just prior to a hunting season and I'll show you a pant load of folks that can't shoot a 270 & 30.06 accurately.

LOL. The week before the season can be a scary time at any range down here. I make it a point to be elsewhere the 1st month leading up to deer season.

Shiott. look out man. I've seen a guy shoot his bench and another sit down at one and load up a rifle during a down range with folks yelling at him. At least he was wearing ear protection....One time a guy brought his wife and a small baby and sat them down on the bench behind the line. No hearing protection on either one. He must have wanted them to watch daddy shoot his gun. LOL.

It made me wonder how many people have been accidentally killed by friendly fire in past wars.

Hey, my idea of proof reading: You give me something 86 proof or higher with ice and a splash of water, and I'll read your stuff. By the time I'm done it'll make perfect sense.

Magnums are about marketing, not ballistics. Gotta keep interest and sales up, otherwise the factories would go out of business. Firearms last a long time, why I got some that are almost as old as my underwear, meaning they don't wear out like plastic Chinese vacuum cleaners.

I used to rant about people who shot long action cartridges. I always thought short action stuff worked fine. Then, one day I discovered a 280 Remington in my hands.

There is no substitute for cubic inches. More powder equals more speed.

Conversely, more speed does not always equal better performance.

It's all about bullet placement. I do truly love my 280 but now I hunt with a 300 WSM & my trusty 308.