Digging out the old 700 25-06. That is the straight on the trigger. Mine has been around.Serial #A659XXXX.

Is it something I need to be concerned about or just a bunch of talk?

Pull the metal out of the wood, clean and degrease the trigger housing and anything you can see any accumulated gunk on..
Lube with a thin protective oil ( Remoil is good)
Re-assenble, and rock on...


( unless someone who doesnt know what hes doing has been dinking with the rigger.... )

This is sorta in line with Scott's post, but is there a consensus as to which aftermarket trigger is best? Shilen? Timney? Basix? Jard? A Jewell is a little rich for my blood for my sporter rifles, but my HB .204 is gonna get one. (Replacing X-Mark Pro)

Let�s take a look at some of the objections:

"It�s an anti-gun conspiracy / CNBC is biased."

Yes, CNBC is biased, and their story contains slanted perspectives and misleading information. What did you expect? However, just because the presentation is biased doesn�t necessarily mean that the core issue isn�t true.

"It must be caused by people fiddling with their trigger adjustments."

No doubt some of the problems are indeed due to improper adjustments. However there are lots of rifles that have adjustable triggers that don�t have anywhere near as many complaints. Something else is going on.

So let's take a look at what it is:

Here's the Remington 700 trigger cocked:



The Remington 700 trigger is a bit unusual in that it uses an extra piece, the trigger connector, to refine the trigger pull. The tiny red area is the engagement between the connector and the sear.

When the trigger is pulled, the connector goes forward and returns to this position:


For this trigger to operate safely it is essential that when the rifle is cocked the trigger connector return 100% to the proper position, pushed there by only the light weight trigger spring.

See the red area between the trigger shoe and the trigger connector when the rifle is uncocked? That's the problem area. Any tiny speck of dirt, rust, ice or other material that gets in there will prevent the connector from engaging the sear properly. This can result in the safety keeping the sear from falling instead of the trigger connector. When the safety is released, the gun fires.

With all this in mind, let's take a look at a couple more objections:

�I�ve owned a Remington 700 for forty years and fired thousands of rounds and never had a problem.�

Good for you. This problem doesn�t happen very often, simply because it�s fairly difficult for stuff to work its way into the proper area of the trigger. But this is not a question of a few defective guns; it�s a design weakness that could affect any of the millions of guns with this trigger. If you haven�t had a problem, it�s because nothing has worked its way into your trigger.

Yet.

"This only happens on dirty or neglected guns."

This is more likely to happen on a dirty or neglected gun. However, a grass seed or a bit of pine needle could make this happen on an otherwise pristine gun.

"There wouldn't be any problem if they followed The Rules of Gun Safety."

True enough. You should always treat your gun as though it could go off at any moment. That doesn't excuse making a rifle that actually does it.

I've used everyone you listed and have all but a Jard and Jewell trigger at present (and will NEVER have another Jard).

That said I just ordered ANOTHER pair of Shilen triggers, that should tell you something.

That tells me just about all I need to know. Thanks, Steelie.

The issue with 700's firing without pulling the trigger is REAL, but extremely RARE. I happen to own a 1974 model that has done it on a few occasions over the years. In my case there was not a round in the chamber the times it happened. My trigger has never been touched since leaving the factory and my guns are clean and well maintained.

I've retired this rifle and no longer use it. I suppose I could have the trigger replaced or send it back to Remington, but I have other guns I like better anyway and I'd rather keep it as is just to prove to the doubters that it can happen.

Years ago a Remington was the only rifle I'd have, but I've drifted away and have come to prefer the CRF Winchesters. It had nothing to do wth concerns over the gun firing own it's own. Heck, I've known about that issue since the 1970's and still bought many Remington rifles. Still own 2, including the one I've retired. If I had a Remingotn I liked I'd use it, but I'd be aware of the problem and use extra care.

Great post natman! I wouldn't own a 700 without the new x mark trigger or an aftermarket one already mentioned. Peace of mind is worth it to me.

natman -

Excellent post but you omitted an important fact. By Remington's own records, up to 50% of new rifles using the Walker trigger, like the 6xx IIRC, were susceptible to the fire-on-release failure and Remington had to modify manufacturing procedures as a result.


I take slight issue with your final statement:


No, there would still be a problem. Treating a gun as though it might go off at any moment does not eliminate the problem but rather mitigates the consequences if the problem exhibits itself.

I'd get the trigger taken care of or move it. Think about it being passed on to a relative or someone you care about after you're gone and the possibility of the trigger taking a dump on them. If you decide to get rid of it make sure the buyer knows it's the old style trigger, etc.

What is the opinion of those on the CF about the new X trigger. Is it safe compared to the old trigger? Durable? I have seen the pics of the broken one but I am asking about the parts that I can't see.

X mark pro triggers are no bueno. Had four...two crapped out in record time...one before the rifle was ever fired...
The other two never had a chance, I changed all four back to old style trigger...

Swampy needs to chime in and offer his opinion..It is very valued around here

I had a 700 with the x mark pro trigger for one full hunting season. I ended up selling the gun as remingtons no longer float my boat so to say, but for that very limited use it was very crisp and had it adjusted down nice and light. I would yield to others here with longer experiences with it and suggest you go aftermarket.

FYI The newer X-Mark Pro adjustable version (with the adjustment on the trigger itself) seems to be a little better than the original X-Mark, in my experience. It's still not great, but better.

For what it's worth I had a problem with my Remington in 300 Weatherby Mag as it would fire when you released the safety on occasion. I had taken it to several gunsmiths and the safety would work flawlessly out of the stock as a last resort I was going to Paulson's gunsmith replace the trigger assembly with a Timney trigger assembly. Before I took the rifle down to him I put some of the wife's lip stick on the trigger assembly and inserted the barreled action into the stock and set the safety. When I removed the barreled action from the stock I found lip stick on the stock in the area of the safety, the safety wasn't fully engaging. I carved out some of the wood and I've never had a problem with the safety corrected it self and worked correctly ever since.

Paulson's gunsmith made the statement to me as to why would I want to replace the Remington trigger assembly as it was one the finest adjustable triggers available.

I replaced all my rem. varmint rifle triggers with Jewells, the 2 sporters still wear the old style Rem trigger, I cant stand the new Xmark pro trigger, its not adjustable like the old style which I dont mind in the least.

ihave 5 shilens; one jewell.

I had a 700 with the original Xmark that fired one time when I closed the bolt.

This is why I asked my son to give back to me the 700 BDL Deluxe 30-06 I got him for Christmas and I replaced it with a Savage.308 w/Accutrigger. Just didn't ever want to face the possibility.

I see your point. I should have worded it slightly differently. A gun that goes off without pulling the trigger is a definite problem, even if no one is injured.

My brother had one with a bad trigger. After cleaning & trying to "adjust" it, it still had the same problem...BUT only when the temperature got below about 40 or so...at least that's the conclusion we came to...right or wrong, I have no idea.
Swapped it out for a Timney & haven't had the problem again...that was back in the mid eighties. The last time I looked, it appeared that Timney had changed the trigger from the model I used, so I can't comment on the new ones, but I've never had a problem with a Timney trigger. If you can afford it though, I'd suggest putting a Jewell HVR on it...


ETA: The problem he had was that he'd push the safety off & pull the trigger & nothing would happen till he tried to lift the bolt handle...then boom.

A Timney doesn't cost that much. I'd change it and then focus my attention on something more important.

I bought a Remington 660 this year from a friend. When he took it out of his gun cabinet to show me the rifle it dry fired when he closed the bolt. He sent it back to Remington to have the recall done replacing the trigger. After I bought it I got a trigger bolt locking kit made by NULA and installed it. The bolt locks again but can be released to open with the safety on. I adjusted the trigger pull down to 3.5# and life is good.

Thanks, Natman. That explains alot of things.
I'm of the opinion that the potential problem causing material that gets into a Remington trigger group can easily travel down the safety lever. I was under the impression that this stuff would have to build up to cause a problem. But, odviously, all it takes is one wrong item, in just the wrong place and one has a problem.
My personal solution, besides an after market trigger, is to close the gap for the safety lever and go with an M70 style safety. E

Wow! 26 posts on a thread about Remmy 700s and no Swampnut drivel??? The Lord can come back now.

My first post. This is as good thread to start as any.

I was considering buying a 700 from a friend. It was built in 82. Now i'm having second thoughts.

Maybe I should just stick to my Swedish Mouser. It's become an old friend over the years.

I own tons of 700 and model 7s most still have the factory triggers.. never an issue BUT I keep them clean

I have seen several folks brought me that were gummed up big time from wd40 or some cheap oil. very dangerous. old factory oil isn't great either

clean them once a year with lighter fluid and leave them. no other oil is needed.

I will say that the Shilen trigger is what Remington should have built. I own severla for some varmit 700 and they are perfect.

many custom builders will glue or screw the connector to the trigger body making it one piece and elinminating any issues...fairly simple to do actually

I've owned 2 different Rem 700's in 25-06 cal. for the past 35+ years and never had a misfire from working the bolt or otherwise. Last year, one of the guys in our hunting party had a misfire on his Rem 700 30-06 while unloading. A guy I work with also told me had a misfire while unloading a couple of years ago. I didn't see either misfire myself. I'm a bit concerned, but my little 25-06 is accurate and one of my favorites. Though I might consider a trigger replacement, I won't be getting rid of the rifle anytime soon.

Excellent posts Natman and well balanced, what I find interesting is Mike Walker the engineer that designed the trigger to begin with, in his own words stated that had Remington implemented the 5 cent fix and if he had been still overseeing the QA dept. Remington wouldn't be dealing with this problem. He stated that there was a design problem and in a passing comment remarked that after the airing of the interview by CNBC that he was probably going to be in trouble with them (Remington). I agree that there is bias on CNBC's part, but IMHO the most germaine comments came from the man who designed/engineered and promoted the weapon to begin with....and in his own words he stated that there was a problem. As far as I'm concerned thats enough.
That said, I will also say that I currently own several 700's of various vintages.
Am I worried about the triggers? No. I had the recalled triggers replaced by Remington, but more importantly, I don't feel that there is a problem as long as you implement the proper maintenance to insure they function properly. If you treat or care for your firearm with with the same casual disregard that some homeowners show to a common garden hoe then you should and can expect your rifle to fail and therefore the burden of responsibility should be on you.
JMHO,
BD

The problem with thinking like that is it doesn�t deal with reality. People make mistakes under the best of circumstances. When they get tired or distracted they make more mistakes. While �you� might treat the rifle properly a to avoid injury in a FOF incident, you might also hand the rifle to someone else, and �they� might screw up. As a manufacturer, Remington knew this and chose to save $.05 per rifle rather than fix the known problem. In doing so they put profits above the safety of the public. Shame on them as far as I�m concerned.

Best to have a rifle that functions the way it is intended and doesn�t fire when the safety is released. My M700 .308 Win went back to the factory while my M700 .30-06 is too new to have the problem. If I get another used M700 I�ll likely replace the trigger with a Timney.

I've been thinking of replacing the triggers in my 700 BDL 223 Rem. and 700 Classic 280 Rem. How do you like the Timny? I was looking at their trigger assembly that comes with the safety. Are they easy to install or should I have a gun smith do it?

I got my 700 BDL new in '88 or '89. and the 700 Classic new in '97 if it matters. A friend of mine did a trigger job on my BDL and it's super SUPER LIGHT, like ounces not pounds. My son (10) enjoys shooting it so I want to make it a little heavier. And I like the idea of the safety blocking the trigger and it being adjustable.

Thanks, NYH1!

What I'm amazed at is there are those who refuse to believe that Remington had a problem(even though the % was extremely low) with the 700 trigger. I have to agree with the Mike Walker statements. Looks like the bean counters were hard at work back then as well as today.

I have one of those magical Model 700s.. bought it in 1980.. I has discharged 4 times on its own over the years...

I treat it like it has NO safety... some say I should have dumped it, but I wasn't going to morally stick someone else with it..

probably should have sent it back to Remington, but the first couple of times I thought it was something I did wrong...

It went off once and could have taken my foot off... missed it by inches... thought I had done something wrong..it was slung over my back with muzzle at the ground... my dad taught me to carry a rifle that way, so that it would not discharge into the air... he was in the Air Force... so I assumed that was his reasoning for that one..

The other two times it made me jump, but was not aimed at anything or anyone unsafe... due to the first time...

Last time I had loaned it to a friend who wanted an 06 for Elk hunting.. I warned him about the problem... I was with him at the time...its an ADL, so he was unloading it and cycling the rounds out of it...I had turned away, and he changed direction working the bolt.. and it went off...

about 25 yds from a guy who was getting into his new Chevy dually pickup, brand new, set up for pulling a 5th wheel... custom paint job and the whole bit...

the 180 bullet went thru both fenders on his new truck, that the plates hadn't even arrived yet..

needless to say the guy was livid... my buddy was pissed at me, like it was my fault...

the barrel got pulled and the rest of the rifle's life it has been used as a single shot rifle at the range and for shooting varmints... but mainly target practice..

I pay to hunt so my opinion doesn't count. Good luck with your Remingtons

Don't forget that after the trigger fails, the bolt handle will fall off in your hand just after the extractor fails....

I just installed my first Timney trigger on Model 700 this past Monday night. Previously I had installed two Jewells in other 700�s. It is simple as pie, in fact their instructions showed me a little easier way to do it than I had done before. You just tap out two punch pins, remove the old trigger, put in the Timney and drive the pins back in. You will need to bend the bolt release lever to engage the bolt release. The instructions said it may take several tries to get it right, I got it on the first try.

Super simple to adjust as well. Loosen the lock nut and turn the adjustment screw in or out. I adjusted mine to a very consistent 1 � pound pull. You will need a small proper sized wrench to loosen the hex nut that locks the adjustment screw (1/4�? � what is the proper size?) but a smaller adjustable wrench would also work. I slammed and slammed the bolt to try to get the striker to drop at that 1 � pound weight but it wouldn�t. When I adjust a stock Remington trigger below about 2 pounds it's not hard to make it slam fire.

Oh yeah, I did have to file out the front of trigger opening in the stock just a tad as that adjustment screw sticks out of the housing further than the Remington trigger does. A small round file works well for that.

Total time spent was about 20 minutes.

Tools needed:
Hammer or mallet. I�m as hacky a hack gunsmith as ever lived, so I used a standard 16 ounce hammer.
Small punch or if you don�t have any punches like yours truly, a proper sized drill bit works too.
Needle nose pliers or the pliers on a Leatherman work fine.
Small wrench which I actually had. It�s the same size as needed to loosen the lock nuts on the New Haven M70 triggers. Again, it you�re a hack like me pliers will work too if you don�t mind scratching up the lock nut.
Small round file or even coarse sandpaper wrapped around a pencil.
Some Tru-oil, varnish or other wood finish to put over the wood you just exposed.

http://www.scilowcountry.org/kenny_jarretts_rifle_cleaning_tips.htm from Kenny Jarrett on trigger maintenance plus other rifle cleaning and maintenance tips. He recommends lighter fluid squirted through the trigger so it runs out the bottom. I think that Jarrett built some of his rifles on M700 actions, but do not know if the factory trigger is usually kept.

All a bunch of horse $hit/Liberal Media Lies.

Keep your finger off the trigger.....

Even if it was true you would never admit it and tarnish your beloved 700!!!

Nah Kenny builds his rifles on his own actions. He gave up on anything but an older Rem Action a long time ago.

I have read and copied the diagrams posted. I have cleaned the old girl and cleaned out the trigger with alcohol and lacquer thinner. waxing the underside before I put it back in the stock.

I have tried to get it to malfunction and cannot et to fire any way but the way it is supposed to fire.

The plan it to adopt Steelhead's method and keep the chamber empty until I am ready to shoot.

Thanks for the help.

There's no need for that. There is no issue.

Really??? Like you would know ???

If the guy feels better running an empty chamber who's to say otherwise???


Better to be confident with your weapon !!!

The 2 dozen people killed and 100+ injured by the non-issue will be relieved to hear that.

remington issue

Why don't you get it fixed ? (not to mention why you have continued to use it after the first "discharge" )

Are you serious?

There may be no need for it but after reading here about hunting with an empty chamber I decided to do the rest of my hunting that way. I read what was posted and weighed it with how posted and made my decision. End of discussion for me.

See Steelhead, and old dog can learn...

I've own many Rem 700's and never had a misfire either,although just recently my 17 year old 700BDL 7mm/08 wont cock.
I assume the cocking issue is a result of dirt in the trigger mechanism too ?

Bet it is dirt in the bolt assembly.

The girls are afraid of firearms. There is no safety issue unless they pulled the trigger with the safety off, which is exactly what they did.

You sure showed Timney, Shilen , etc. by not buying one of their triggers by god....

Yep...swampy's right...Remington was just pulling everybodys crank when they admitted they were aware of the problem...

Read my signature line....

The XMark original triggers that I have are both working wonderfully so far.

It is so easy to swap out a trigger of something other than the original design, that this really need not be an issue for anyone considering the purchase of a used Remington.

It is also pretty easy to superglue the connector to the trigger body and eliminate the problem as well.

The designer of said trigger a Mr Walker said the device was faulty..but you go girl.

Jorge, you are correct. I have allowed myself to fall into another cauldron of fecal matter by one that believes he can polish a turd.

Fixed it for ya.

I now have a Remington just about every version of trigger they've offered. Original ADL 243(bolt lock safety on) , Sedero 25-06(pre x mark), 7-08 varmint (original x mark), 257 Bob classic(x mark adj in trigger shoe), 223 XCR tactical 40x trigger.
The original has dropped the firing pin on me before "but" never before I adjusted it. Cleaned ,readjusted and kept dry it hasn't since. It will be given to my son one day and will be replaced before doing so. The Sendero and varmint after proper adjustment work good. The Classic x mark adjustment screw in the trigger shoe sux azz. 40X is the best of the bunch.

I've thought about have my two sons Rem 700 BDLs in 270 (matching LH (handed down from his grandfather) and RH (handed down from me) bought in the late 60s (RH) and late 70s (LH)) triggers replaced with Shilens. I probably will do so, but since Norm Thompson adjusted the triggers and the RH one has seen 40 years of hunting and at least 15 years of 100 days / year hunting and taken some hard falls without a glitch, I find it hard to take out such a fabulous trigger.

the only time that I had an issue of the trigger going off when the safety was pushed off was when I had the trigger adjusted to light.

Shilen triggers are hard to beat, jewels are very nice but it depends on how much dirt you plan to get in a trigger.

Had one go off after being adjusted down to a mere 4lbs. None of the other screws were touched, and still had the factory glue over them.

Gun was hunted in the rain the day before, not sure if that had any bearing. Flipped safety, BOOM! My other remmys only wear aftermarkets now.

Only one I've ever had go off was with an aftermarket trigger. Point being, nothing can overcome a wrongly adjusted trigger and just cuzz it weren't made by Remington means not a thing.

Empty chambers rule.

I'm gonna tell this little story and you can make of it what you will; I'm not saying that with all of the rifles that Remington makes, a dud doesn't get through every once in a while but.....I bought a nib Varmint Special (Rem 700). I took it apart, cleaned it well, and adjusted the trigger to a crisp 32oz. I bounced it on the floor, I put the safety on and pulled the trigger, and then took the safety off, etc. Everything was fine. That evening, a friend came over and I proudly showed him the rifle. He took it, cycled the action to make sure it was unloaded, put the safety on, brought it to his shoulder and flipped the safety off. The "CLICK" sounded as loud as a thunder clap. We looked at each other big eyed. He did it again. Again "CLICK". I took the rifle and couldn't get it to "fire" when I took the safety off. WTF!! Long story short, my friend's manner of handling a rifle was to place his index finger lightly on the trigger as he held the rifle. When he would flip the safety off with his thumb, his index finger would automatically twitch. Enough to trip the hammer. Once we figured this out, he still could not keep his finger from moving just enough to trip the hammer. I, on the other hand, didn't put my finger on the trigger until I was ready to fire.

Improper adjustment of the sear will malfunction at any pull weight.

You convinced me of that a long time ago. Not so sure how well it will work with my muzzle loader but I will carry an empty chamber on my modern stuff from now on.

Safer yet to keep your ammo in your pocket.

That's how I do it with the #1s, unless, of course, I'm hunting something that may be hunting me. I won't hunt with a bolt gun that doesn't readily and reliably pick up the first round when the bolt is worked; takes no time at all, and it sure won't go off before that.

Why bother to load it at all? Just leave the components on your reloading bench.

Leaving them in the magazine works just fine for me.

Hmmm....I have paid little attention to this issue, but now I just remembered the 8mm magnum in the closet. Never had a problem with it, but....

Reckon a Timney is in store for it...