Hello friends, got my new Winchester JOC Custom Tribute yesterday and to be honest, never been more disappointed in a gun in my life. The major issue was the checkering. The forearm checkering felt like velvet and the right side of the forearm has a series of 3 ridges about a half inch apart The checkering honestly looked like it had been sanded down and filled with linseed oil or a wood finish. The next issue was the ebony grip cap. The cap is about 1/32 an inch higher than the wood where it joins the stock. Not a lot but you can feel it easily when you slide your hand up the stock and you can see it when the gun is held horizontally. Then I checked the barrel and it is only floated about 10 inches and then makes contact with the wood. I couldn't get a piece of paper or a crisp 20$ bill to go past 10"'s. Finally, the metal butt plate extends about 1/16" below the stock and overhangs both sides about the last 1/3 the way down. Can't figure out what happened here but I am very disappointed. I called Winchester and they sent me a UPS label for pick-up and said they will look at it and see what they can do. I got the impression that they think I don't know what I am talking about but I know good checkering when I see and feel it. My Kimbers, my Brownings, even my new model Winchesters all have very sharp and clean checkering. They said to expect 4 weeks so I will update on the site then but for now, I couldn't be more disappointed in the quality I received in that gun. Maybe I should have just gone with the Kimber Super America and had the O'Connor floor-plate installed? What a waste of the most beautiful piece of AAA walnut I have ever seen in my life. Maybe they will get it fixed, we'll see. Sincerely, Jim.

Sorry to hear of this. They should never let one like this out the door. Good luck getting it fixed.

Take pictures the next time and post them.

Are you going to get the same gun back?

From the ones I have seen the checkering was not well done or designed.

The fleur De Lis is too large

That's a damn shame. What sucks is if its corrected or even replaced, you'll still have a sour taste in your mouth. I'm sure it wasnt cheap either.

Hope it ends well.

Not much of a finish on that wood either , The grain looks wide open !

Your first mistake was thinking that a public held company like Winchester gives two chits about anything other than profit.
You fell for a marketing scam and we're sold an over priced under quality product so the parent company could meet profit margin demands and keep stock holders happy.

Or she may come back better than you'd expected.


Travis

I can't imagine the amount of money and maybe time you spent waiting to get this rifle. I would just want to get a refund and not look back. In my opinion, there are many other rifle makers out there, Cooper being one, who would make you feel you're getting your money's worth.

The wood finish that looks like the surface of the moon does not help much either. :-(

Shame on Winchester for allowing a poor quality but high dollar product leave their door.

I sincerely hope they make this right for you. Winchester should know that expectations are high for a custom model like yours. I picked up a custom high grade featherweight .270 over a year ago and it is beautiful. The quality of these Model 70s should not be hit or miss.

The dude is wearing this one out...

Nothing $15,000 dollars can't cure if your check has an apostrophe in it.

Quality of the stock finish is sad, as noted by Jess.

Saw the crap you took on anohter forum for saying you had a problem with the rifle from the JOC rifle fan boys. I've looked at one in Cabela's in Kansas last summer, and I didn't feel it was worth the money just for being associated with JOC. Anyway I hope Winchester fixes it the way you want it.

i have an fn supergrade in 270 and it is flawless. i certainly hope winchester fixes or replaces you tribute model. sad commentary on what should be an outstanding rifle. best of luck with your rifle.

Man what a shame. Keep us posted on how it turns out. The fleurs are just fine in size. Look very similar to Geons fleurs.
My 1st post. Hello all

Welcome Va98.

IIRC,JOC stated he prefered an oil finish on his rifles,not a high gloss.

Is that you Jim?

I'll let everyone know how this turns out and I do have confidence that Winchester can get it right. I kept the barrel, bolt, and floor-plate and I am hoping they can re-cut the checkering, mill the butt-plate to where it fits properly and finish the ebony forend tip so that it is even with the wood. I can't help but think now that somehow the walnut shrank on the stock over the last year or so. I figure the gun was likely made in 2012 or 2013 and this was the best looking wood I have found on a JOC Custom Tribute so I went ahead and purchased the gun via Gunbroker. The pictures did not show the flaws but the person who took the pictures may not have known what to look for anyway. When I called to discuss the gun the salesman told me that the shop had 2 come in about a year or so ago and the boss wanted to keep that one for himself and they put it away. Now the boss is selling off some of his collection so I went ahead with the sale. I don't know how or why the wood could shrink but either the butt-plate, barrel, and ebony forend all grew larger or the AAA french walnut somehow shrank. By the way, the picture posted on this thread is not my gun. Don't know who's gun it is but mine didn't look anything like that grain at all. I'll post the pictures I got to see before I bought the gun. I hope to report back that all is well and the gun is the gun that I thought I was getting all along and that it is truly a tribute to a great writer and a hard tack hero of my youth.

OrangeOkie, my name is Jim. Do we know each other? Forgive me but I do not recognize the handle.

I like the wood in your stock. Nice figure.

FWIW, walnut shrinks approx 4% to 8% when dried from green down to 6% moisture content. And consistently air/kiln drying thicker pieces of wood (eg: gun stock blanks) can be difficult. For the dimensional changes you are talking about, in my mind, it is entirely in the realm of possibility that maybe the stock blank was not as dry as it should have been, maybe in a "dead spot" in the kiln charge relative to air flow. And if the finished stock/rifle then spent a year or two sitting in a dry climate like AZ or NM where the wood continued the drying process... Just speculation on my part. But you get the idea.

I wish you the best in your dealings with Winchester. That is a nice piece of wood. I hope it works out to your satisfaction.

My only fuss with the JOC rifles is: No Left handers...

JR270 not directed at you....just general comments and not dumping on the OP's rifle, nor meaning to offend but...

Expectations may be high but the price is not in accordance with what is expected for top end work; never has been in factory shop "customs",which is why I have always avoided factory "tribute" rifles, and stayed away from factory "custom shop" rifles.

Mostly they have been built deliberately attractive enough to snare the unwary and indiscriminate buyer who really thinks they are going to get Al Biesen or other high end maker fit, finish, and function for a fraction of the price of top quality work. Such rifles will bear superficial resemblance to, say, JOC's rifle...but that's about "it".

Factory wood will be "green", punky, open pored, not properly cured; workmanship will be indifferent compared to the good stuff; finish will be uneven and the checkering not of top quality. A properly cured and sealed high end walnut blank will be as stable as a slab of granite and take years of use to move around. A good stock maker won't use anything but...

I'd rather cowboy up and use the $2k as deposit on something really good.

For an example of a truly nice custom wood/blue rifle at a bargain price(a steal really), take a look at the rifle built by George Betzinger (sp), recently sold by Steven Dodd Hughes for $2500 bucks in the Classifieds. You couldn't get the stock work on that rifle today for the cost of a JOC tribute. Someone recognized this and stole it while many of us slept. Such deals are out there; you have to really look and shop discriminately.

It's the same old story and it will never change....you only get what you pay for. Barring some odd circumstances common to the marketplace, it simply cannot be any other way.

I suspect the factory will swap out the stock for another, but sort of doubt anybody will be laboring over this stock to cure any defects....I could be wrong though.

Well said Bob. I was interested in one of these rifles, until I got my hands on a couple of them to have a good look. A standard featherweight barrelled action with a 2 dollar tacky laser engraving on the floor plate and trigger guard, a two dollar stamped steel butt plate installed on the more expensive tribute, super grade sling swivels and a classic stock style with fleur-de-lis checkering and dark for end tip on wood that varies from quite nice to some of them being rather plain with fit and finish no better than a $750 featherweight. I don't think Jack O'Connor would be really impressed with these guns being sold at the price point their asking.

Good points gentlemen and I do understand the point of getting what you pay for. I do however own 2 other custom rifles but I also own 3 Kimber rifles, 2 Classic Selects and 1 84M Varmint, and they both have beautiful French Claro stocks with impeccable fit and finish, expertly floated barrel channel, rock solid action bedding and pillar bedding on both action screws. The checkering will grate cheese or bloody your hand if you rip it across it fast enough and the accessories including grip caps, recoil pads, etc., are fit perfectly on all 3 Kimbers. However, the price of each of the Kimbers was less than half of what I paid for the JOC Custom Tribute, so I expected the JOC to be comparable in workmanship to the Kimber rifles. I also own a few, actually 4, out of the box 2000 era Winchester M70 Classic actions and the stocks on those were actually fitted and finished better than the JOC, although the grades of wood are obviously in two different spectrums. I couldn't expect the detail I received from Kenny Jarret or the work of art from Montana Rifles but the JOC gun should at least be equal to their Super Grade in fit/finish and detail. I really wanted the gun because I am a fan of Mr. O'Connors work and his great stories of hunting in the west not far from where I grew up in Oklahoma. I guess I thought that somehow Winchester would be able to come close to reproducing his beloved #2. The pictures I saw sure made me think they just might have done it, closer inspection upon receipt has left the experience wanting. Surely Winchester will make this right, I can't see how they won't but the last thing I want is another stock that isn't of the same quality and figure of the one I sent in. I'll keep everyone up to date along the way with progress reports but I do have faith that Winchester will make this right.

Just got off the phone with Winchester and talked to "Dave". He said it is likely that the stock has changed shape and possibly shrank from the time it was produced and the time I purchased it. He said the stock should be able to be corrected but woodwork is normally very labor intensive and I can expect to wait about 2 months for the stock to be finished. Although I do hate the 2 month wait, this does give me hope that I will be able to keep the stock I paid for and it will arrive back in the condition befitting a Custom Tribute rifle, particularly one with Jack O'Connor's name on it. literally. I'll call back in a month and try to get an update. He also said that Winchester will be mailing me a service number and some particulars regarding the work they are doing and the schedule expected for delivery. I told him that I was a little more than uncomfortable having to send a stock via UPS and all I had for any receipt was the UPS pick up label they emailed me. He assured me that this is perfectly normal and that is why I will be receiving the service number, etc. Updates to follow......

Tenring,

Sounds to me like Winchester is making at least a credible effort, and this is good. I hope that the rifle you get back is as nice as you hope for or even better. I will be looking for your update in March or so.

Safariman, love the quote regarding the CRF and fastest among its caliber, that is awesome. And I agree wholeheartedly.

After all the trouble I have had with my new Winchester Jack O�Connor Custom Tribute rifle I thought things were turning around yesterday with two items found in the mail on the doorstep. First in the mail bundle was an info card on my rifle and its progress at the service center. Unfortunately the service card lists my gun as a Springfield 30-06, that must make Jack roll over in his grave, and when logging on to check the status is appears that mid-April is the earliest I will see the gun stock again as it will be re-checkered, refinished, and the metal parts re-fit. I tried to call Browning (the actual name on the card) and they were all gone for the day so I'll have to clear up my card/account errors lest I get back a 30-06 of some variety(yuck). The second glimmer of hope rested in a box from Clewiston Idaho which I knew contained my complimentary rifle case from the Jack O'Connor Hunting Heritage & Education Center. Much to my surprise I opened the box and found the custom embroidery spelling Lewiston as "LEWISION". Who knows, maybe Mr. O'Connor moved from Lewiston at some point to a township known as Lewision but I doubt it. Anyway, the rifle matches the case perfectly right now. Designed well, well thought out, but executed very poorly in the production phase. I enclosed a picture of the spelling error on the case and I doubt I'll return it because it probably isn't worth all the hassle anyway. I had planned to use it as a travel case in the vehicle when I went to a hunt club or back home when the gun needed a "Grand Entrance", you know what I mean. Anytime I needed to high hat it just a bit and show off my Winchester. For now, I'll just set back and wonder if this ordeal will ever end and now I can't help but have serious concerns about the rifle function, accuracy, and performance when I get the stock back and get it together. I know manufacturing isn't always a process of perfection but I hate being the guy that apparently got "that gun" but at least I have the case to match! I'll enclose a picture of the case. Kind of funny huh, I guess no one checked the work at any point in the process of these cases and they are named for a writer that was a meticulous wordsmith and editor of the highest quality. I bet he would have caught the spelling error .......... but it is likely that no one would have handed him the rifle I received or the case that I received either. Well, the gun has a history and a story to go with it and it has never had a round chambered, not bad huh?

The lesson here...
Most modern corporations are simply riding on their historic reputations.
Its called" resting on your laurels".

Because of the spelling error that case might actually end up being the real collectors item and worth far more than the rifle ever will.

Wow, tenring. You really seem to be snakebit on this project. Sure hope Winchester steps up to the plate and fixes it right for you.

Had a thought from another member who inquired the manufacturer of the new gun case. Figured it wouldn't be hard to find out so I removed it from the box, looked inside and yup, MADE IN HENRICH CHINA from materials of HENRICH CHINA. Don't know who embroidered it but figured it was probably them too. Unfortunately I feel this thing is a long way from over and I can't help but feel I am going to get the shaft before its all over.

No wonder Elchols needs 160 hours to get a M70 working right.

Lewision is how Lewiston is pronounced in China.

Not sure its politically correct but I am laughing anyway....

I could drive out and talk to Whan Hung Lo if he's there....

Boy this thread from another site tells a different story. I sure hope you end up as happy with your new rifle in the end as this guy seems to be.

Best wishes OP.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529518

Good luck with Browning/Winchester service centers stock work. I had them respray a faulty finished xbolt a couple years ago. It took 3 times longer than quoted, came back split in the wrist, and the finish looked nowhere near factory. Checkering was half filled with finish. They claimed it was damaged in shipping but both boxes were perfect. Dunno what happened but they ended up refitting a new stock and covered it under warranty. Whole thing took about 8 months IIRC. I would never have them do a refinish again.

Hell, this dude is posting right above you now... here

What do these rifles sell for new?

Looks like $1600-$2200,depending on the grade.

Some of the posts on that firing line thread are hilarious!

Twofish, that fellow actually did respond to one of my posts on that very message board but comparing our guns is an apples to oranges argument. We have different stocks and the guns are assembled with different components. His is a Tribute series and mine is a Custom Tribute. The action and barrel are pretty much the same as the Super Grade model 70's on both guns but the tribute is stocked with grade AA walnut and the Custom has AAA, the tribute doesn't have a checkered steel buttplate or the jeweled bolt and extractor that the Custom Tribute has. All of my issues are with the fit, finish, and workmanship with the stock and those components which differ from the Tribute series. I have no idea how the gun will shoot but I doubt it will perform as well as he claims his does on a regular basis. I read his postings, and while anything is possible, I have never seen any sporter weight rifle with a 22" barrel shoot half inch groups at 300 yards and manage to get the same point of impact, with the same sub MOA performance, with 2 completely different loads from factory ammunition using 2 completely different bullets, as he claims he did. I am not saying it is impossible but it is a lot easier to take one target shot at a much closer range and use the sharpie to enhance the story and exaggerate individual abilities or performance. And all of this remarkable marksmanship was performed next to another fellow at the range who had a multi-thousand dollar benchrest rig, with the latest and greatest anemometers, clothing, and optics available, while he shot from a sandbag fashioned from some old clothing and a sewing needle. I swear to you that is what he posted but if I remember correctly he removed the majority of his posts because the story became so ridiculous that his credibility was in obvious jeopardy. Of course he outshot the villain when they went at it side by side and the villain with the big gun sulked and walked away after being embarrassed by such a marksman with the magic gun. He's pretty loyal to the Winchester brand as well and seemed to take my dissatisfaction with my poorly made rifle personally. He even sent me personal messages reprimanding me and insisting that I remove my posts until Winchester had been allowed what he considered sufficient time to correct the deficiencies with my rifle. Of course I told him that refused to be censored by anyone and that I had every right to expect the quality that Winchester advertised the moment I opened the box and inspected the rifle. It is just as likely that he is no more than a simple 14 year old who knows how to utilize photo bucket and trolls for arguments than who or what he says he is, or does. Any examination of his prose and grammar in what he has labeled, �his write up�, indicates that he is certainly no scholar, nor is he a writer of any substance. I do however hope that I am just as happy as he appears to be with his purchase when Winchester returns my stock and the rifle finally gets to the bench minus the obsession. I will be realistic in my expectations however and hope for groups that approach 1 MOA with premium components and meticulous handloads unless I can find some of those �magic bullets� he found at the local Wal-Mart (I believe he said it was a Wal-Mart but I can�t be sure). Regardless, I am sure he will be along following this post shortly because I fear that my gun may have become an obsession to him. His posts will be easy for all to spot. Most of his ramblings look much more like the original manuscripts of Elmer Keith than anything that ever came from the Smith-Corona of Jack O�Connor. Much like Mr. Keith, I am inclined to believe he fits an old saying popular from my youth out west in Oklahoma; He�s all hat and no cattle. I�m confident we will not have to look too hard to find him �����

Horseman,
I have heard far more of this type of story than what I was hoping to hear about the Winchester/Browning repair center. That is why we have these forums I guess and maybe others will benefit from our experiences. The time frame has already changed twice on my problem since this episode began and your story is consistent with many others I have heard from as well. I'll post the final results and hopefully the ending is a happy one.

Tenring-Your stories would be much better to read if you'd occasionally use paragraphs instead of ongoing typing.

Having said that, apparently you know little of the 270 cartridge. There are a few calibers out there that will be different weight bullets to basically the same POI at a given distance and the 270 is one of them. I believe the 257 Roberts is another one. If you don't believe that read some of Jack O'Connor's books or better yet, try it for yourself.

I saw the groups shot by Mystro and have no doubt the group size was just as he depicted in the photos and don't understand why you would doubt that he shot such a group. What would be the motive?

You go from forum to forum whining about this rifle you purchased. Why don't you just sell it when it gets back as I'm sure your magnifying glass will find yet another small flaw to complain about.

Maybe it is a coincidence that all the "Mystro" fans joined this forum in the fall of last year, maybe not. But as I suspected he was easy to find and couldn't help but expose himself.

(new paragraph) I would like to set the record straight and again assert that "while anything is possible", it is doubtful that the postings are credible with the rifle any more than I believe the man made an offhand shot with an iron sighted revolver at 175 yards taking a deer cleanly. I suppose it was a deer, I can't be sure because I didn't see any blood, antlers, or the telltale tongue sticking out of the mouth that I recall deer having after they have expired. Looks like an animal that was struck by a vehicle more than one harvested with a firearm.
(new paragraph) Why do liars lie? Why do cheaters cheat? I have no idea. I am an educated man but regarding the motives for the behavior displayed by dishonest men, I admit that I am not qualified to speak.

(new paragraph) My first new rifle was a 270 Winchester (Savage 110G) and I currently own six others of that caliber from various manufactures as I type this, including one from Winchester that remains disassembled sans stock. I have no idea what is meant by "There are a few calibers out there that will be different weight bullets to basically the same POI at a given distance and the 270 is one of them". The writing is familiar because the grammar is atrocious and the sentence structure does not allow for accurate interpretation so I will assume that the overwhelming majority of script is unmanageable as well.

(new paragraph) I do appreciate all of the valuable comments from those who have had actual dealings with the repair center in Morgan, Utah to help me with my dealings and preparing me for the obstacles that may be ahead trying to get some satisfaction at the conclusion of this saga. However, if you just want to argue about nothing or want to censor me for whatever your obsession or reason then please feel free to not post anything. If my post frustrates you then simply do not read any further and feel free to not leave a reply and unburden yourself of the bondage that my rifle and I bring you.

Very good.Thanks for the paragraphs. You mentioned something about his being a kid. He cant be a kid, all you have to do is google his name and he shows up all over the place. Here he is on the Hornady web site.

http://www.hornady.com/team-hornady...-xtp-240-realoaded-ammo-david-aka-mystro

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...areer-high-point-175yard-shot-629-a.html

Tenring-Just get your M70 back and enjoy it.

Please just be a gentleman and leave where you are not wanted. I do not want to argue with you any more on this forum than I did on the other and I do not know why you insist that I remain silent about a problem I have with MY rifle. Not your rifle, not your problem, not your business, please go home.

I have no idea why I shouldn't assume that it couldn't be a child TROLLING for a response that is not going to come. Wait, maybe we can ask Manti Te'o what he would do if it were him?

Go home TROLLSTRO......

See, I told you he would come......

Tenring, the running battle between you and Mystro on the other forum was amusing to read. However, dragging it into this forum and starting it anew is obnoxious. You guys have two different threads going, one about your problem rifle, one about his glorious specimen. Why not just leave it at that?

Those who are interested in either rifle will follow the respective thread. My guess is that you two won't be happy until you lock horns here too, and that's just bad form seeing as you're both new to the forum.

Just my two cents,
DeWayne

MSRP for the Custom Tribute M70 (which is what Tenring purchased) was $2,599 at release.

MSRP for the Tribute M70 (AA Walnut vs AAA in the CT and a recoil pad) was $1,999.

Tom

Amen!!

There is one in Scheels in Sioux Falls discounted to $1440. Looks pretty well crafted although I haven't looked at it closely.

Sounds cheap. Does it come with that nifty rifle case that says Lewision instead of Lewiston???

Some enjoy making life difficult and then getting to bitch about it.

Tenring: Sorry to hear of your disappointing Rifle!
How did you purchase said Rifle?
Apparently you bought it without seeing it before hand?
Anyway I hope the replacement makes up for the disappointing first Rifle.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Dewayne, I have no intentions of ever having any type of conversation or exchange with the fellow from the other forum ever again. You are right in one sense, if he did follow me to this forum that would be bad form and if I was in fact a new member who simply joined this forum to find a new audience for an argument, that too would be pretty childish. However, I have been a member of this forum since the summer of 2002 which is a little more than a decade here. I don't post a lot because I just read most of the time and I try to pay particular attention to the amount of time someone has been in this forum and weigh their comments and advice accordingly.

I did purchase the rifle without ever seeing it in person via Gunbroker. There were several pictures of the gun but none so close that would reveal any of the flaws found when handling the gun.

I didn't spend a lot of time inspecting the gun during the FFL transfer because I really just wanted to get out of there because it is a very, very small shop and it was far too crowded with no room to actually inspect the rifle anyway because the place is covered in glass counters that they don't want anything put on them and the floor space is covered with racks of long guns for sale. The thought never entered my mind that a new in the box rifle of this quality would have so many flaws.

I have purchased several guns via Gunbroker over the years and have been very happy with the results. I still didn't feel like it was the dealers fault that the gun had these flaws but I did include them on every email sent to Winchester and I sent them an email before I contacted Winchester just to let them know that I had a problem and would be sending the gun in for repairs. I also called the dealer and spoke to an employee to verify that this gun was not a factory second or previously owned and he said that the gun had only been out of the box for pictures since its arrival from the distributor but he did not take the pictures and did not know who did.

I really believe I just got a lemon from Winchester which could happen to anybody but I wanted to post my issues just to find out if anybody else had any issues with their JOC Custom Tribute rifles, particularly with issues similar to mine, but to date only 6 other people have sent me responses stating that they returned their JOC Custom Tributes to Winchester and 2 of those were barrel issues and not wood to metal or stock workmanship issues. I just hope Winchester does get the stock right and all ends well.

I planned to hunt with the rifle anyway so I expected some loss of value but I do plan to take care of the gun and hope to retain as much value as possible. Being a fan of Jack O'Connor since my youth I probably built the expectations for this rifle a little too high. I know it doesn't look exactly like Mr. O'Connors rifle, and likely wont shoot as well as his did either, but it should be a rifle he would be proud to own if it has his name on it.

You may of joined 2002 but only have 37 post and 1/2 are about that rifle. You have no history here.

You'll find some of us do post on other sites and you did join FL and first post was the review of that rifle. You have what 29/30 post about that rifle on FL in less than month.

I post on difference sites no law against that.

Roper,
your right, I don't post a lot because I don't have a lot to say regarding most posts and I generally try to avoid childish pissing contests like the one your trying to bait me into. If I have experience on a particular subject, or solicit someone for experience that may be of help to me, then I will post. I don't want to argue with anyone, especially about things that do not matter because there is no benefit to either party.

This thread is about my experience with my JOC rifle. If you have nothing to contribute to the post regarding the subject of the post there is no need for your input. I'm sorry I don't have more time to break down the metrics of your posts and follow you on other forums but the fact is, I just don't have the time, and if I did, I wouldn't waste it on something so ridiculous.

Also, there is no need to reply to this post because I have no use for your input unless it is relevant to my original post. I subscribe to the theory of George Carlin who once stated, "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.�

Tenring, you say you "try to avoid childish p*ssing contests" yet you have a lengthy post above implying Mystro's accuracy claims are bogus. This is just one example. My point is that you don't have to be talking TO him to be obnoxious, talking ABOUT him will suffice. And in no way am I defending him - I think he was all too happy to follow you here hoping something like this would break out.

At some point, you gotta recognize that the internet brings out the worst in people and just walk away from the impulse to right the world's wrongs in every post. Just let it go, man. It doesn't make either one of you look good.

DeWayne

Couldn't resist,and not to change the subject...but here is some of the stuff I learned over on that Firing Line thread:


"......the man under the big had was much more correct in what he was saying than Jack. Keith dealt in real world application. Jack dealt in idealism that relied on bullet technology that simply was not present at the time. Had the Barnes X been around at the time, Jack would have been right. It was not around and Keith had much more practical application given the bullets that were available at that time......"


I had no idea the elk, moose, grizzlies,sheep, black bear,African,Asian, and Indian game that JOC killed with the 270 were shot with bullets based on "idealism"....how did he ever pull all this off without a Barnes X ?

Seems Elmer was not the only one who sort of "missed" the whole Partition happening...some today still don't "get it".How did anyone kill anything before 2001?

I also learned from another (who also posts here),that today, we know as much or more about BG rifles and bullets as JOC did, even if we have never hunted further west than Westchester County NY, or further north than Vermont.(?)

Wonderful place....the Internet.

Good advice sonvolt, "just walk away from the impulse to right the world's wrongs in every post". I'll heed that and let the subject go. Now, do you have any experience with the Winchester repair center in Morgan, Utah or any experience returning a Winchester rifle for service? Any experience you can share is appreciated and may prove useful.

there ya go readin DumbDon's posts ...

I loved that rifle! If the timing hadn't been so bad I'd have snatched that one up. But with trying to sell two houses buy a third and pay taxes I knew I shouldn't even try.

To Mr. BobinNH and ALL,
I would have to agree with your assessment (and others) of the other site. I figured I would go ahead and put a post there to see if anyone else had the same issues as I did, in hopes of getting some insight on what I might expect regarding repair time and the quality of the repair work. As you could see from the posts, that didn't happen. I did receive a couple of PM from others who had issues but they preferred to avoid the "line of fire" (quote is from another member that bought a JOC and had issues) and just tell me what he went through, and is still going through for almost 4 months now.

I have seen some "banter" on here through the years but never anything so personal and never did I see anyone try to tell another member they shouldn't post an issue they had with their particular gun, or firearm related item, simply because they had no issues and knew no one else with any issues. I think I'll stick to this place and one other that I have been around for more than a decade.

In defense of the other site, I did receive an email that the poor judgement of the other posters did result in admonishment and the administrators agreed to shut the post down at my request The thread looks a little odd because some removed their comments but I had no problem with that. Had I authored anything like some of those posts, I too would have wanted the record cleared.

In the interest of full disclosure, I never should have allowed the ridiculous direction the thread took and I own that, that is my fault. I should have simply ignored the bait and/or contacted the administrators and been done with it. I should have listened to George Carlin's advice about arguments and experience. Lesson learned.

I'm not sure what all the naming calling is for if you want to talk about my post do that and leave kids games out of it.

I never post anything that's not true sorry you don't like that. You got great leadership skill for ex navy chief but that to be expect.

Moderator has been notified regarding the above post.

What did you do, belly ache to them like you have here? I perceive you are the trouble maker.

Really!!

That is the funniest post that I have ever read on here.
Hope Flave was the mod.

I'm on the TFL and it is a little over moderated, if I don't get at least one warning a year I figure I haven't stirred the pot enough.



We have moderators here?

Funny chit right there. Another case of sand in the mangina

So...forgetting all the irrelevant rubbish, what is the status with the rifle at this time? I am truly curious to see how Winchester resolve this.

CarlsenHighway,

There are no new status updates. The stock remains at the repair center in Morgan, Utah waiting in line for repair. I will update with new information when I have it. I do not expect any updates from Winchester unless they contact me prior to, or immediately after, the work and let me know what is/was needed. I don't see any benefit to call for an update too often because I will only get to talk to someone who has very limited information on my actual rifle stock and probably isn't a stock maker or gunsmith themselves.

I do plan to call at the 3 month point just to request any update they can provide and I'll share the story and final outcome on here in hopes that others may benefit from my actual experience. I don't want to turn this into a Winchester bashing thread or argue with anyone about the quality of Winchester products because I obviously have some faith and experience in Winchester or I would never have invested that amount of money in one of their products. It is my hope that this story shows how anybody can get a "lemon" that slips past Quality Control but also shows that Winchester has the people and policy to make things right with their customers in the event that something does go wrong.

There are 2 other gentlemen who have contacted me and exchanged their issues with this particular gun (at another venue) but I do not feel comfortable sharing their story. I have encouraged them to share their experience on here as well but they can speak for themselves and don't need a spokesman. I will include their end results providing they have no issue with me sharing it on here.

UPDATE ON REPAIRS,

I just went to the Browning website to get a phone number to order a short barrel for my new A-5 and noticed a repair tracker tab, so I clicked it. Sure enough, I put the numbers sent to me on a postcard with my item #, Service #, and web PWD and this is what I found:

Serial Number: GUN COMPONENTS
Received On: 03 Feb 2014
Est. Completion Date: 08 May 2014 *
PROGRESS

JOBS
Job Description Status Amount
SPOT RECHECKER STOCK JOB COMPLETED 0.00
TOUCH UP STOCK JOB NOT STARTED 0.00
CHECK OVER & TEST JOB COMPLETED 0.00
FIT BUTTPLATE JOB COMPLETED 0.00

The status is listed as updated today (20FEB14) so this should make things easier and save me time on the phone. I knew Winchester and Browning were both owned by Herstal but I did not know there was an online tracking service. I should have known because the information is printed on the back of the post card I received from the Winchester/Browning Service Department. When I received the card I just put it in the safe to have the service number handy when I called for updates.

I debated on putting my service number and web password on this site for anyone who would like to track the progress to be able to do so but because the actual gun serial number is on the site I have decided against it. At first I thought it might be interesting for some who have never had this experience to follow along but I quickly had thoughts and visions of some of the juvenile posters on this site who would probably do whatever they could to interfere with repairs and laugh about how stupid I was for putting such information on the web. And they would be right.

There is some personal information on the site as well but I have never had any issue with putting my full name and address on any post I have ever placed on any forum. I know it is only the cowans, eavsdroppers and cowards who make the childish posts and troll for arguments. I fear the internet age has produced a generation of cowards who hide behind their keyboard and are never held accountable for their words intended to incite others.

Kind of funny though, I didn't know there were that many retired and active duty Navy Chiefs on this forum until the derogatory post was made about our fraternities leadership abilities. I sure hope he doesn't post any contact information, I don't want to see any of my fellow Chiefs in trouble with the law.

Meant to comment on this and then thought it really wasn't worth it, and just realized I had obviously hit the reply button. Way it goes sometimes.

Maybe you'll get better work than my xbolt stock. Mine was done in Missouri. I was under the impression that's where all the Browning/Winchester service took place.

I won't go into all of the details on how I ended up at this point, you can look back at previous posts and see the trail. But here is where the trail shall end, for me anyway. The rifle came back after about 8 months for repairs on the stock. The metalwork was fixed very well, the barrel floats perfectly, the finish on the gun is above average and the checkering looks like it was done with a pocketknife by a drunk, in the dark. I've got pictures and I do hope to post them here. If not, I'll post them on the website I open up based on this experience. The tragedy for me is that I'll never be able to buy another Model 70, Model 94, Super X or any other Winchester/Browning related products without holding them in my hands first. Over the decades I have probably filled at least 3 of my safes via Gunbroker and other online auctions, but not anymore. This experience fixed that for me. If you want a quality gun, you better go find it. Never had any trouble with Weatherby or Kimber rifles online and all the Browning shotguns I have purchased have served me well, but that was then and this is now. I'll take no more chances. The gun doesn't look horrible to the point that you couldn't hunt with it, I just can't. I'll hate it everytime I look at it and think of all the hassle I went through and all the money I spent on something that is of inferior quality to a standard M70 being produced right now (at least I hope it is). Don't think I'll ever shoot it. I'll just hold it till someone buys it, and we all know someone eventually will. The only question is how much will I lose in all of this? Never again!

Tenring,
That really sucks. When I first saw this thread I was thinking maybe you were being a bit too picky but when I saw the pics, I had to agree with you, especially when you pay extra for a commemorative firearm. After looking at your pictures of the checkering in your last post, I had to go look at my M70 FWT that is just a run of the mill off the shelf gun. The checkering looks way better than what you got back.
Sad state of affairs and you have my sympathies.
Too bad you can't just get a whole new stock and be done with it.
I'll relate a short story and you can do with it what you will. A friend of mine bought a Ford pickup. He is younger and his buddies all had Toyotas and such but he is a patriot and wanted to buy American. The thing would die on him at the most inconvenient times and have to be towed to the dealership. Every time it got there it would start right up and they would say there was nothing wrong with his truck. They finally said there was nothing they could do.
He got Ford's 10K filing that listed the addresses of all of the board of directors and officers and wrote each and every one a letter explaining what he had gone through trying to get his truck fixed. A few weeks later he got a call from the dealership and they fixed his truck.
If I were you I would make some noise.

We get what we pay for.

The JOC is a nice enough rifle for the money,but not a true "custom". So what can we expect for a bit north of $2k?

That's true, but my standard FWT has sharper lines and it was less than $800 NIB. Couldn't they have used the same machinery to cut both? Not arguing, just wonder what happened for Tenring's checkering to look like it does. Pretty grain though. If it was mine I'd just use it. It would still be a bragging rifle at our camp where only a few of us still use wood.

I sold nine of the Custom Tribute JOC rifles and kept one for myself. None that went through my shop had anywhere near the figure of the ones pictures above. The one I kept is speckled with color from very uneven and random fiddle back lines. It looks OK but not what I would call AAA. I let the customers chose which rifle figure they liked and I kept the last one. It has a unique serial though. At least I got mine for cost.