I just completed my Fly weight Mountain rig a month ago and with I couldnt be happier.

I always wanted to put together a fly weight mountain rig and came to the conclusion after handling many lighter weight rifles that if you want quality light weight, its gonna cost you $$ . My expectations were surpassed with the finished products I put together. I started with a new Kimber Montana 84m in 308, topped it off with a Leupold VX6 3x18 Firedot with Talley light weight rings. Total weigh almost doesnt feel real at around 6lbs. It feels like a toy and its balance is perfect. I took the Montana apart and the kevlar stock is built like a brick house except it weighs nothing. It fits the action better than any composite stock I have ever seen and is beautifully finished even on the inside. The build quality and attention to details Kimber put in this rifle makes it a bargain. The trigger breaks at a clean no creep 3lbs and needs no adjustment.

The Leupold VX6 is Leupolds halo optic and is easy to see why, it sets a whole new standard in rifle optics. Eye relief is ridiculously long even on 18 power. I hunted with this same scope this year in some very nasty weather and it is now a top requirement for every new hunting rifle I own. Every rig is only as good as its weakest link and I think I have eliminated every weak link except the trigger man behind the gun.

The entire rig oozes quality with a outstanding fit and finish but you could still get it wet and beat the crap out of it knowing it will hold up.

My wife gave me a little money for a Fly Weight Mountain rig I have been talking about since October....This was my Christmas gift to myself this year.



I want to first report the conditions of the range today in Central Pa. HORRIBLE 30 degrees with 15-25 mph winds with gust over 30 mph. I was the only guy out there other than a truck that stopped briefly and left. Thats the only bad I can report. The Kimber Montana 308 with its Leupold VX6 3x9 Firedot made me look like a hero in those crappy conditions.

My first shot after only visually bore sighting the gun in at 50 yards was this.......




I have never been so lucky with a new gun and scope mounting to be that close to a perfect bull with its first shot.

I then adjusted the scope up and walked out to 100 yards through the wind. I couldnt even keep my hat on and had to staple the target down many places. With the target fluttering violently, I walked back to shoot its next 2nd 3rd and 4th shots while cleaning the barrel after every shot.



Lightning struck again. I managed to get 1/2" moa under the worst range conditions I have shot with a new gun. A contributing factor to this was the very mild recoil of this 6lbs rig and a trigger to die for. I was expecting more recoil but found it much less than a sportster weight in 270Winchester. Geometry of the rifle and stock construction also must help with the recoil for such a light setup because I could have shot all day. The claw extractor was just like my Winchester. Very smooth extraction and depending on the speed of the extraction, the empty case will slowly and deliberately lift out of the gun or if you rack the bolt back quickly, it will flip the case out way out of your way. The bolt also took bullets out of the blind magazine smoothly. It didn't seem to matter if I fed the gun each bullet as I shot or loaded the magazine up 4 +1 and had it strip each bullet and seat it into the chamber. The safty is also the typical 3 position "wing" safty common on the Winchester M70. For such a light weight gun, it still had a quality feel with safty clicking very deliberately and precisely as well as the bolt release button. All had a very silk high quality feel. Tolerances on the gun were tight and the fit and finish is perfect. The kevlar/carbon fiber stock puts to shame any of the synthetic stocks either factory or after market stocks I have ever owned or handled. Its a shame to even put it in a synthetic stock catagory because its in its own league. The Pachmayr recoil pad fit tight and looks like it was built into the stock with no lips or gaps. I really couldn't find anything on this gun I would have improved upon. It feels like a full blown custom rifle.

The first ammo of choice was Federal Fusion 165 grain. This gun will stack these bullets under better conditions. I then switch ammo to Winchester Power Points in 150 grain. They produced 1' groups about 3" higher but still excellent given the wind. I then tried Federal Fusion in 150 grain. They printed sub 1" moa but 2" lower than the Fusion in 165. I would bet both 150 and 165 will be under 1/4" moa with better conditions and the Winchester PP has a 1/2" MOA in them. All three loads were excellent for hunting and would be outstanding in no wind. I like the 165 grain Fusion. I could see they handled the wind a bit better and will be a great do-it-all round.

Finally after all my test shooting I wanted to see how 3 quick shots would group not allowing the barrel to cool down and without any cleaning between shots. I made 3 shots as fast as I could shoot them. I am guessing 9-12 seconds for all three shots. Once again the end results were outstanding and the Kimber Montana didnt seem to care if the barrel was cold or warm. Given the windy conditions, I am more than impressed with the accuracy. The gun seems to shoot sub 1" moa with anything you feed it. Trigger pull was perfect. I shot with and without gloves and the trigger break was spot on with no creep.

To say I am ecstatic with the performance of this set-up is a under statement. Its not a hard gun to shoot and seems to want to shoot anything you feed it. I am soooo looking forward to another day at the range on a calm day. I tried to save all my targets but a few blew away and I wasnt gonna catch them but the ones I did save gives you a good idea of the day.



It was a great day at the range despite the wind and icy conditions. I am always a little apprehensive with a new rifle and scope. You never know what their accuracy will be. I am very picky with accuracy and my expectations were surpassed. This will be my goto rifle. It likes me and I like it.

I had the rifle out two more times on less windy but cold days and confirmed it is a honest 1/4" moa with Federal Fusion 165 and Hornady SST 165 Superformance.

Nice write up and nice rifle....I think if you flip your talleys around it'd be perfect. Lol it's your rig run it how you want. The 308 is hard to beat for a lw do all rifle.

I needed to have them that way to get the scope back where I like it. I love the Talleys. I have always used Leupold mounts before and will gradually switch them to Talleys.

Congrats.
I'm a big fan of Kimber Montanas

Thanks for the report.

You gotta be happy with a new rifle that shoots that well the first time out, and in bad conditions to boot!

Congrats!

I have a very similar rig, Kimber Montana .280 AI with VX6 2-12

It's a nice rifle for sure, I've spent a bit on my rifle trying to tune it a bit better, but it's not the best accuracy wise.

Ocean Raider,

What size talleys do you have on your 2-12 vx6? Any problems with bolt clearance?

Congrats on a great rifle!

Just a thought.....The rear Talley needs to be turned around. No way the bolt handle isn't rubbing it. It over hangs slightly and it has to be making contact. Flipping the back ring won't hamper the position of the scope.

Mine has medium size, as others have said turned the correct way, bolt clearance is fine, there is a bit of excess between the barrel but I think lows would be to low

Some good looking rigs (this and your other thread) and some good shooting ones at that.

Personally, I don't care for the 30mm scope on such a petite rifle. Nice that it's still somewhat of a free world and we can put whatever we like on whatever we want.

Mine are Talley low mounts. The rear mount is symmetrical so my bolt doesn't touch it. That was a selling point with these mounts, they can be turned either way to adjust how far the scope can come back. I purchased mine directly from Talley and confirmed the universal direction when I ordered them on the phone. I am sold on this system. Its surprising how light weight they are and they are also a good old USA company.

I bought a Kimber Montana several years ago. The machine work looked as though it had been done in 8th grade shop class. There were deep tool marks everwhere. The underside of the raceways that matte with the mag box were so roughly cut that they were actually serated. I took the rifle back for an exchange.

Although I was not happy with that particular rifle, I really liked the feel of the overall package. I hope to handle another, and will eventually own one. I just don't see many this far south.

Looks like you got an awesome Christmas present.

Nice rifle.

Those groups are not 1/2 MOA, nor are they 1/2".

How does it balance? Seems like it would be rather butt heavy.

Looks great! Hard to beat the Montana as a hunting rifle.

Kimber Montanas beg for a VX3 2.5-8. Big scopes don't do them justice.

This rifle should weigh around 6.5lbs how did you get it down to 6lbs?

My scale has it at 6.2lbs. That's why it's labeled at about 6lbs. Lets put it this way, with its optics and out the door weight, its noticeably lighter than a bare M70 Featherweight.

Big scope?? Nightforce is a big scope. Look at the Z6 or higher end Zeis and the Leupold VX6 line is trim for all that it does. After using a VX6, I wouldn't go any less than the Leupolds Halo VX6 line with Firedot. The rifle is extremely balanced.

Where is the balance point with a loaded magazine?

Doesnt seem to effect the balance point with or without a full magazine since the balance point is at the center of the rifle. Its pretty near perfect. I am running a Blackhawk Mountain sling on it. I am very sensitive to a unbalanced rifle. In the past, I would rather carry a heavier balanced rifle than a lighter unbalanced one.

Do you think the rifle is lighter than factory specs, or the scope?

Buy both...and see.

Don't know. I know the scope looks like it would be heavier than it is but its not. In fact its about the same weight as my German Docter 3x9 40mm. I compared the specs from other 6x optics from the European companies and the Leupold is the lightest weight and the others don't have a firedot at their weight.

Seriously considering a 3x18x44 for my 223!

Getting smokey in here?

Forgive my ignorance but what does that mean?? Have not heard that phrase before and I was a forum moderator on a few forums.

I think it means you need a new scale.....

Ah, perhaps. Either way, I don't think a couple of oz either way effects how the gun will carry or be used. At least I cant tell a few oz either way. If I start to , I will just leave my snuff can at home when hunting.

Nice shooting rig there. Congrats.

And a new set of calipers.

The rig shot 1/4" moa in better weather conditions. I didn't think necessary to document every target shot given the crappy weather conditions or even after its first initial range visit. I was just happy to get the targets off the board before they blew away.
I suppose I can take some more pics next range visit if there is any skeptics in the crowd.

Its nice to see a rig come together so easily.Congrats on that! But I need a bowl of popcorn here real soon.........

Thank you. Its a holiday, kick back with a beer. Its 10 degrees here so its got to be colder in MN. My sister lives in Minneapolis. We usually get your weather a day later.

Great looking rifle. I like the VX6 and thought about putting the 2-12 on my 270. The 3-18 wouldn't be my first choice, but looks like its working great for you.

I ended up with the Swarovski Z3 3-10. Light scope and lots of ability with the BRH.

Swarovski is a good scope. I had a older Z3 on a 300 Win I carried for years. Had the VX6 3x18 only come in a 50mm, I wouldn't have gone with it. I have had 50mm before and don't find them necessary with today's optics for my needs.
The difference between the 2x12 and 3x18 was only 2mm and they both have 30mm tubes. 42mm verses 44mm. After I hunted with it, I knew I would be buying another one for this Fly Weight Rig I was planning. The Firedot is great and am sold on the concept. I had the opertunity to scope over a few deer out at 200 yards in some heavy sleet with my other rifle that has this exact scope on it. It made a huge difference in less than ideal shooting conditions. Leupold also gives you a free custom CDS turet. I have not had them make me one yet. I have to finalize my loads when its warmer. You can find a competitive price on these VX6 optics if you look hard enough. They have a VX6 4x24 that just came out. I am thinking about one for a new predictor rig but we will see, I spent my rathole money on this rig.

You won't regret it AF. I really like mine.

Nice rifle and scope mystro.

Looks like a keeper, I'm glad you wrote this up I have been looking at those VX-6's for awhile and would love to try one sometime.

Everyone that has one seems to rave about it. You can find a pretty good deal if you look around on line. I was scope shopping for about 3 months so I could see most all the premium optics in person. The VX6 is a real standout. The way the firedot is enclosed, automatically turns on with motion and is totally water proof has been well thought out.. Check out some of the torture videos. The VX6 strapped on the ATV wheel is cool.






Here is a better pic of my other one. In the box you get a set of bikini caps, neoprene cover, Leupold sticker, coupon for free CDS with serial number on it. I think that's it.

I spent a good bit of time comparing the VX6 2-12 against a Swarovski Z3 and a Zeiss HD5 and without a doubt I walked away convinced that the VX6 was the standout winner. Seems like there's been a few cases of QC problems with the VX 6 here on the campfire which concerned me a little bit. I ended up buying a vx3 3.5-10x40 that ended up having to be sent back for repair anyway, so go figure!

Prove it.

We have yet to see a 1/2" group from the rifle.

Just any FYI, inches and MOAs are different systems of measurement.

18x on a 6 - and - change pound mountain rifle. Sounds perfect.

I am aware that MOA is 1.047" at 100 yards and not exactly 1" but is that really a issue in these informal discussions about a hunting rifle? O.k my target that I took a picture of shows a 3/4" group in a 25mph wind on a 30 degree day with a 6lbs and change rifle. It was just a example of how the rifle performed on that given day under those conditions.
Perhaps I just assumed everyone would under stand that a 15-25 mph wind in the cold will probably effect accuracy in a negative way and should be considered as such.
You honestly don't think I can pull off a 1/2" group or better on a calm day???
Since you are double dog daring me Prarie_Goat, I'll take some pics next range trip. Perhaps this Saturday, suppose to warm up a little and I have two other loads to try out.

You never can tell with any optic. Stuff happens, This is my first experience with the Firedot system and I hope it holds up but its a Leopold gold so regardless its covered under warrantee.

I believe he's referring to the difference between inches and MOA. You referred to 1/4" MOA when it should be one or the other. I'm not trying to split hairs or get caught up in small details, though.

I will say that an honest 1/4" rifle is tough to come by and such claims aren't generally taken lightly. Especially when other claims are a bit on the optimistic side. That takes nothing away from your very fine setup, but rather is intended to explain why you're getting called out a bit.

I am new here but I think you will find out over time with all my post that I push accuracy to the limit when I can with either handguns or rifles. This is in part from a competitive shooting background with handguns. I am picky as hell with accuracy. I'll try to set a more constant parameter of where I am comming from with my accuracy expectations.

I have duplicated results similar to this with my Kimber on a calm day. I consider this a excelent 4 shot group and was one of a many great groups I shot with my JOC 270. If I do my part and with the right load, I expect results close to this.

From the looks of that target your rifle is working alot better than your scale.... seriously that's some good shootin!

Thank you...My best group with my JOC Rifle at 100 yards was this 3 shot group. This was a beautiful 60 degree day with no wind. I didn't have the guts to shoot a 4th shot. After my second shot, I walked down to my target to see a single hole. The final third shot just cut the first hole. If you look close you can see the third shot barely cut the first and second shots hole.


Anyway back to the Kimber rig. I noticed that the Kimber didn't need as long for the barrel to cool down between shots as my 270. The 270 gets hot very quickly but the SS barrel of the 308 will shoot another 2 shots before it gets as warm?? I don't know why and wouldnt think there is that much more powder between calibers. I would be interested in any ideas???

Have to wonder were this a Rem 700 or Tikka would anyone question the accuracy? Just wondering?

Yes, for the reasons I mentioned above.

All we need now is for you to put VX6's thru some tracking drills, like 20 shots each of shooting your zero and then give it a full revolution and shoot again, to see how reliable the tracking is...

Your rifle seems to be a good shooter; I'm glad for you and don't mean to demean your shooting or the rifle. But as has been mentioned, claiming it to be a 1/4" or even 1/2" rifle is pretty extraordinary, and extraordinary statements demand extraordinary proof.

Shooting one or two great groups looks nice, and makes for good bragging, but isn't necessarily a good measure of what a rifle will do on a consistent basis.

I've owned five Kimber Montanas, and I would be extremely hard pressed to claim any of them as consistent MOA shooters, though the jury is still out on my recently purchased 223 AI, as it is doing great....though it has been rechambered, and has gone through the shortactionsmoker accurization routine.

The Inch vs. MOA post was made in regards to writing both together, sorta like saying the speed limit is 55 MPH KPH.

I've also noticed most of my super groups from hunting weight rifles were three shot groups. When I started shooting five shot groups (which is a much better measurement statistically), reality set in that my sporter weight rifles weren't going to be winning any benchrest matches.

Damn you're dumb.

Well it shoots one hell of a lot better than my Kimber Montana, I have spent a bit of money on mine to attempt to improve accuracy. It tightened a little but nothing even close to yours.

Well done

The 270 uses more powder.

Love the rifle, not crazy about the cartridge, HATE the scope! But youre the only one that has to like it...Good luck.

Why do you dislike the scope and cartridge?

What would be your ideal setup?

mystro. Welcome to the 'fire. I personally wouldn't give a ratsazzz what anyone thinks of your targets, calipers, rifle, scope, etc. That's some great shooting, with a great caliber, with a damnfine scope. You're thrilled with it, that's good enough. If that VX6 is anything like my 2-12 you've got a real winner.

I understand what you are saying but it seems that you are comparing apples and oranges. I've never seen any need for a hunting rifle to group more than 3 shots. That's why target rifles have heavy barrels. They are expected to be consistent over multiple shots in a relatively short amount of time. The target rifle and hunting rifle are designed differently to accomplish different things.

I would consider multiple 3 shot groups spread over several days to be a better gauge of a hunting rifle's consistency and accuracy than it's ability to shoot tight 5 shot groups. I would much rather own a 6 lb. rifle that could put 2 shots in the X ring on any given day than a 9 lb. rifle that can do the same with 5 shots.

Spot on. Three shot groups is the way to go for a hunting rig in my opinion. Nice Rig and great accuracy Mystro.

I will also add that most of my groups were done with a Clean Cold Barrel after each shot. The first CCB shot is the one I REALY care about.
I managed to get some outstanding groups in better range conditions. On my first outing in horrible conditions, I did shoot a quick 3 shot string just for fun and to show the rifle wasn't heating up or changing much.

This is a 3 shot group in (10-12 seconds) total. I wasn't bearing down but more of feeling the rifles natural shooting ability without concentrating on each shot. I believe given the terrible range conditions, any hunter would and should be more than happy with a quick three shot group like this from a sporster weight rifle, let alone a fly weigh rifle. IMO.

You still better turn that back ring around! The square portion of the bolt will rub the bottom of your base. The Kimber bolt has too much play for it not to make contact. The bottom of the base slightly over hangs and there isn't enough clearance to be trouble free.

Trust me, I've owned a few....and I use Talley LW's on them all.

No, not even close to touching. Now you are making me take needless pics. There is about 1/8"-1/4" clearance between the Talley mounts and my bolt. I am even pushing it forward with my finger to take up any bolt play. Talley mounts are drilled symmetrically for my rifle. Thats one of their selling points that they can be turned universally to adapt for different scopes. I called them about this before I ordered mine directly from them. I was worried about not getting the scope back far enough. They recommended to turn the mounts around if needed and added they were designed that way. You cant even screw these mounts up even if you tried. The front and the rear are even drilled in different places so you cant mix that up. Perhaps the Kimber is different? The way I have them turned now keeps a nice wide grip onto the scope and they both are pointing in the same direction. I know my OCD could never live with it rubbing.

I do want to go one record in thanking everyone for your warm welcomes and respect. Its obvious I have been around awhile on other forums and its nice to have a new group of guys to share my interest with. Its also nice to share some of my past stories, and experience with to a new bunch of guys. I tend to not take stuff that serious and like to use humor alot. I have a large gun collection and tend to use it as a reference. I forget many dont know all of my past experiences with my many guns so I will try not to take such liberties without noting what I am talking about.
Once again, thanks for all your input and welcomes.

The first round is on me...
[u][/u]

Friend mystro. Welcome to the campfire.

I must say, you have a very nice looking rifle. While I have a safe full of nice guns that shoot great. I still find myself wanting a Kimber Montana in .308, I have a Kimber Classic in 308 that has nice looking wood stock. I'm still wanting a Montana.

Take care and again welcome to the Campfire.

Nice rig. Nothing wrong with flyweight groups like that in those conditions. It should make a handy killer.

Very nice set up...

Mystro,

I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'm just trying to help. I'm on my 20th Kimber and the Talley LW's are my preferred mount. In fact, they're the only thing I'll use.

I pulled a scope and turned the base around for illustration.

Your picture depicts the bolt at full throw. This isn't the problem, because after it cams the bolt moves slightly rearward. The problem is getting there. The picture below illustrates my reference.



You can actually feel the upper portion of the bolt handle making contact with the base. After I worked the bolt about five times, I removed the base for inspection. Note the shinny aluminum. The bolt is making contact with the bottom of the base -- enough to remove the finish and get to bare aluminum.



I've never owned a Kimber that didn't share this common trait. A picture is worth a thousand words. As the bolt is raised, the upper portion of the handle is slightly higher than the action. Any base that overhangs will make contact. Maybe I've been unlucky...like 0 for 20.



This is the last post I'll make on the subject and I wish you the best with your rifle. Bolt handles and bases don't mix well, nor do large scopes on flyweight rifles in my opinion. I try to eliminate potential issues before they arise.

No absolutely. Thank you for bringing this up. I see when moving the bolt it cams itself closer. Under further examination working it back and forth real slow, mine just misses it. I think it could go either way with different Kimbers. You are totally right with your concerns. I can see how some may slightly graze it. Total disclosure and I appreciate you bringing it up. I lucked out but I can see how some might slightly hit it. I think its easy enough fix with just nipping the back lip of the Talley mount with a file or sand paper. You would only need to remove about the thickness of a sheet of paper on the back right side only. It might even self correct since its aluminum against SS. It wont take much to correct if the problem should occur with another owner. Kinda wish there could be a sticky on this like other forums.

Glad to see the OP got a good one. If I didn't already have a good light .308 I might risk another Montana

FXII 6X36 7MM08

ive got a FXII 6x36 on my 84M in 260.....good fit....

I have to agree with prairie_goat on this one based on the pictures mystro posted his rifle while having acceptable hunting accuracy, it isn't even close to a sub 1" shooter.



Based on the two three shot groups pictured I'd put his rifle at a 1.5" +/- rifle. Of course I don't know if any scope adjustments were made between groups or not, the info wasn't there or I missed it all together. Now if no scope adjustments were made he does have similar sized groups but the POI has changed from right to left. According to his pictures as well the two different groups were shot using the same ammunition in similar conditions.

Regardless, I'd still hunt with that rifle shooting like that and I'd be very successful.

[quote=mystro]

I want to first report the conditions of the range today in Central Pa. HORRIBLE 30 degrees with 15-25 mph winds with gust over 30 mph. I was the only guy out there other than a truck that stopped briefly and left. in those crappy conditions.


Finally after all my test shooting I wanted to see how 3 quick shots would group not allowing the barrel to cool down and without any cleaning between shots. I made 3 shots as fast as I could shoot them. I am guessing 9-12 seconds for all three shots. Once again the end results were outstanding and the Kimber Montana didnt seem to care if the barrel was cold or warm. Given the windy conditions, I am more than impressed with the accuracy.
[/


There were all kinds of adjustments made trying to deal with the crappy weather conditions.
Doping the wind, playing with the right/left scope adjustments, and shooting speed is mainly why the two targets are different. I was just trying to roughly sight the gun in.
Its one of those days where you want to shoot your new gun because you have a day off but no other sain shooter was going to the range to shoot in such miserable and cold conditions. I have had much better results in calmer range conditions since the intial first outing but since there were some skepticism by some that dont believe the gun is capable of better grouping in calm range conditions, I have agreed to take some more pics on my next visit to the range to give a more accurate representation of how it may shoot when conditions are better.

So lay your targets that you shot on calmer days on top of each other that you used the same ammunition on. Mark where the bullet holes correlate to one another on one target. 4-5 targets where you used same point of aim should be enough to tell you exactly what kind of MOA rifle you have. Shooting one group and stating it's a half MOA or inch rifle isn't exactly true.

As far as your testing I don't know how you do it you didn't say, but the targets from what you posted were shot in similar conditions same wind only you didn't put temp on one. Point of impact was different in both, and I assumed you used same point of aim on both. If you're as good as a shooter as you claim to be from shooting competition pistol then the speed at which you shot the second group shouldn't have moved the POI by 3/4" or more left.

Like I said as well I'd be very happy to hunt with that rifle, I could kill a lot of animals with it.

Taylorce1,

I was adjusting the scope between targets. If a POI moved that much without adjusting the scope, there is a big problem and something is loose.
Wind was very inconsistent from 15mph to gust to 30. I went back on a calm day and fine tuned my POI. It was almost impossible to do it on the first visit. Thankfully no surprises and the groups keep getting tighter each time I take the rifle out. Thats where the report of the better groups are coming from.
Got about 4 boxes through it so far.

Moderators generally don't know how to mount scopes correctly, measure groups correctly, or weigh rifles correctly.

VX6 for a light rifle? You must not climb very big mountains.

How would you know????
When its your rig, you do what you want. Why do you care about mine to chime in with such helpful commentary???? I will make sure your observation is given the attention it deserves.

Sounds like a normal winter day in the Northeast.

More importantly those conditions are pretty normal here or out west during fall hunting season. So,it's worthwhile to practice under those conditions and let the groups fall where they may.

I dont mind shooting in the wind and cold but hate sighting in a new rifle in them. This new rig gave me a reason to go to the range and get out of the house. Any day at the range with a new gun is going to be a good day. Our big game season is over in January with a late muzzleloader and bow season. I started predator hunting a few years back for somthing to do this time of year.

At first I was excited to go shooting on Saturday with a freak warm up we are getting the next few days but after the last few big snows this past week, it isnt going to be a stessless few days. Our big concern today through Saturday is unseasonably warm and rain on a 18-28" snow pack in the valley and more in the mountains and up north.
I have a few buddies as well as family that are in flood terain and last time this happend was not good. I have a feeling I will be moving furnature and appliances all weekend. I live on top of a mountain with no danger of flooding but the valley might get hammered.
We had a big one of these a few years ago and many are still recovering.

I don't miss those North East winters, especially the ones like youre having this years! Just thought id through a little salt in wounds Sorry couldn't resist.

That's alright. I have been to Nashvile on many buisness trips. Beautiful country.
I live on a mountain at the end of this stretch of canyons actually called the Pa.Grand Canyon. It empties into the Susquehanna Valley. You can see why when the snow melts in the canyon to the valley, it can be serious. This also why we have such record size Black Bears.

It's pretty mystro, PA was high on my "places to retire" list. The wife wanted milder winters. So we picked TN, about 90 miles east of Nashville.
Pretty liberal hunting season too!

What is the temp in Nashville today??
We truly have four seasons of the year in Pa. Many do retire here from like NY, Baltimore, Philly, etc.... Then our locals either are the snow birds when they retire that go to Florida in the winter or move their permantly. It certainly keeps you hearty. I have a neighbor that owns the next hill over from mine and she is 96 and still going strong. I care take her property with mine and she still planets her own garden, plays with her flowers every day. She is also full of spit and vinegar. We are the folks that Obama commented on years back when in Pa that "are clinging to our Bible and guns and don't trust the government."
Most of that thought that was high praise.

65 today, 74 tomorrow

Oh, man.......that's perfect. That's my kind of weather. I am at least 2 moths away from that tempature. Today was 43 and it felt like a heat wave.

Wait, what? You have large black bears because the what?

Geographic isolation, good genetics, and ample food source.

400-600lbs black bear are not uncommon and are fairly normal. 600-800 lbs are getting more common and are regularly taken each year. Then there is the big hogs that are always shot every other year. One was killed illegally last year and I think it was just under 900lbs.

I live on the border of the Clinton and Lycoming county border. Both counties are always the #1 and #2 highest harvests in the state each year. Are local bear weigh stations are always packed like a music festival to see the bears come in to be weighed.

This was a 800lbs + Pa Black Bear taken last year.



Outdoor life did a story of my area a few years back. Our deer camps turned into bear camps because of the bear hunting being so good.

That's a biggun. I guess NC has to be #2 for heavy black bears.

I have seen some pics of some big bears from NC. I am not sure where NC ranks in Black Bears in the country??? You have a big bear research with your fish and game there don't you??

Spring and early summer on my 270 acre property is bear central. We have to take in all bird feeders and get very creative with our garbage cans. My dogs keep most at a safe distance but one year I had a big 500lbs male that would wait just in the wood line and watch me take my trash cans out to the end of the road. He would pick up my very large can and drag it 200 yards down in the woods to get into it. One time he bluff charged me and poped his jaws several time as I was dragging the can out . I could hear him bouncing up and down on trees and having a fit. The smaller bears in the 150-250 lbs don't bother me at all but when they are in the 500lbs range, the hair on your neck stands up and even a 44mag on the hip feels under gunned.

Agree that Clinton and Lycoming counties historically have large numbers of bear shot, but the largest black bears in the world are found in the Pocono Mts. and their foothills. The bears shown in your pictures were taken in Lackawanna, Pike and Monroe counties over the last few seasons. Wayne and Luzerne counties are also known to produce world class bears.

I wouldn't say always. Heck, Clinton didn't even make it into the top five this year and Tioga was number one. Not that Clinton and Lycoming haven't been historically godd; they absolutely have been. A northwestern county made the top five this year which is kinda neat to see.

On the big bear note, 58 bears topped 500 this year.

Oh and nice Kimber by the way. That rig should serve you well.

#800...damn that's touching Grizzly size! The largest Black Bear I've seen was in a dumpster in PA a town called Shihola Falls(might have spelled that wrong)I was told it was #400. It filled up that dumpster!! I think it was a 3 yd. dumpster.

Why do PA bears get so big?

There was a bear that weighed more than 750lbs taken a few miles from my father in laws, in Lackawanna county. I thought it was the biggest bear taken this year.

http://wnep.com/2013/11/26/hunter-bags-772-pound-black-bear-in-lackawanna-county/

How much did the heaviest bear ever taken in Pa weigh?

Climate, genetics, geographic isolation and food sources. I think genetics being the main reason. When Outdoorlife did a story on this years back, they had all kinds of contributing factors why the bears get so big in Pa. I still have that magazine somewhere. I always knew we had big bears but it wasn't until t.v hunting shows started to show other black bears being hunted around the country that I was surprised what they thought a big black bear trophy was.
They were calling 300-400 bear "massive". There is a big difference between a 300lbs bear and a 600lbs bear. You see a 600lbs bear in the woods and it will disturb you if your not bear hunting. A 800lbs is epic. You have the "Hog" bears with the round heads and the "dog" bears with the elongated head. The hog bears are what you want.
Our bear season is only 4 days long and no baiting or dogs, allowed.

This is one of the pics from the story.

Genetics and grub....

Jack,
You wouldn't happen to have any links or info on that massive record size bear that was shot illegally last year would you??? I think it was shot with a crossbow?? I know WNEP 16 reported on it.



Jack helped me out where to look.
This was a legal kill. The media put a anti hunting spin on this hunter when it was initially reported. (which is pathetic.)


Shot legally in Pike County Pennsylvania,
This is the potential #1 World Record Black Bear. The results should be in after the 60 days of letting the skull shrink. I am still looking for final verdict.

He had a field dressed weight of 744lbs and live weight of 879lbs

Just like Clinton county is not always number 1 or 2, this bear was not shot last year.

Shot two or three hunting seasons ago 10/11 season. I cant find any follow up reports to see if it made the #1 in the World. There hasnt been any bear close to this size that I have heard. Last specs I have we're for 2012, but it looks like 2012, 2010, 2009, 2007,2006,2004,2003 Clinton was #2 and Lycoming is a better than Clinton in almost every year. I cant look back past 2003 for stats. I don't really keep track every year.
Do you work for Pa Game? You really know Pa game statistics of the top off your head. Its impressive.