So, let's say that I'm on the market for the lightest factory rifle on the market chambered in 7mm-08, and have decided on these two (pretty easy to do since these two said rifles are the lightest out there in factory terms that I can find).

This post is aimed at those posters that have one of these rifles (or did) and will comment on them, both positive and negative.

Let's hear some thoughts and opinions!

Just looking for a way to spend an Alaskan dividend.......... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If you get the Kimber make sure that the one your getting has the three position safety. I did see one Montana 84M with the old two postition type. It can be changed at the factory for $75 but thats a hassle.

I wish the Montanas had come out a couple of years ago and then I would have favored them over the wood stocked Classics. I already have plenty of wood stocked rifles.

Look at the two guns yourself and buy the one that you like.

We've two examples of the Montana in 7-08 in our truck cab most days. They've accounted for a few critters already as well as a few paper plates at 700 yds, though we have less than 100rds through the two combined.

Stick and MB have 3 Ti's between them, and we've put some time on them.

There's a thread somewhere not too long ago in which Stick summarized his opinions of the Kimber.

Neither he nor I would likely trade the other. I don't think you can go wrong with either, but the Ti can probably be had for a couple hundred bucks less.

I paid $1050 for my Montana, and it weighs 6.75lbs all set up.

I really like the Montana,but my sole bitch would be throat geometry/mag confines. There are ways around it though.

My Ti bitch is the cock block shroud..................

I own a Ti'08 (Montana was not available at that time) and my brother has the 84M in '08. The Ti is capable of shooting itty bitty groups but so is the Kimber. I like the action of the Kimber better and would probably go that route if buying another one. If it matters, I would think the Kimber will hoLd it's value better in the long run. NO FLAMES PLEASE. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I recently went through the same decision but it was in either 7mmwsm or 7mmsaum , for me living in New Zealand i needed a rifle that was easy to work on if its a non shooter , so i choose the titanium , i also noticed the high amount of people who have had to send montanas in for feeding and accuracy problems , they all seemed to be happy with the service from kimber but for me thosands of miles away, i took the safe option , but both are very nice rifles .

That's just it, I have looked at them both quite bit and handled each one while at the local gun shops. I like them both, but alas, I can only get one and I need to decide soon. Honestly, I doubt I can go wrong with the one that I purchase, but I still want to seek out some opinions on both rifles.

Bearstalker, when all is said and done I think the quality of the Kimber is quite a bit higher (I've not owned the 84 but had an 8400 MT). That's no knock on the 700, but it is what it is... a "gussied up" 700. The Kimber's metal work is very precise and the trigger is fantastic. I dislike flutes and "creative milling" so the 700 doesn't appeal to me on that score either. Also, being prejudiced toward's CRF I prefer the Kimber action as well as the three position safety that locks the bolt in the "on." The Ti stock is not in the same league as the Kimber. The Ti's stock is chopped glass throughout, whereas the Kimber is laid glass sheets which, done properly, is a lot stronger. I know first hand the Kimber stock is done right!

For me it's not a contest, good rifle though the Ti may be. I plan to have a Kimber Big Sky in 308 or 708 soon... or at least when I can make up my mind.

Try a Sako Finnlight. Much better than either IMHO. My 7-08 will shoot 1/2" groups at 200yds if I hold still enough, and has shot 3/8" with factory 140 BST's. You won't be sorry---2MG

The "cock-block shroud" is about $75 to a mucho better mousetrap...........but you knew that.

You are about $125 away from a better trigger, with at least a $25 core charge........but you knew that.

Then send it to BCBrian's buddy for a $300 dab of epoxy, and you will be in the berries ! ..........but you knew that !
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Midway is running an anti-cock-block tune up special,for 38 bones.

I went with a red anodized striker,on mine and think highly of the conversion unit.

A sub 1lb trigger would tickle me....................

stick, you saying them midway shroud kits is worth the money?
i was wondering about 'em ...
the midway matte steel adl triggerguard was as advertised and well worth the 29 i paid.

Where did you get that information on the stock compositions for each rifle Brad ? I understand both are predominately graphite, not glass.
What did you understand ? Are the skins on the Ti chopped glass, or are you refering to the webbing area ?
I'm curious as to the details. Would appreciate some details. E

E, I've had a couple of Ti's... dig into them, there's no shell from solid sheets of glass... just chopped glass/graphite. While it's ok for most purposes and is nice and light it's not the same strength-wise as glass sheets forming the skin like McMillan, Borden, Bansner, Brown, etc. I have a friend at Kimber and he's explained the stock making procedure they have. It's time consuming and epensive done "right" and is the reason a good stock from a Co. like McMillan cost's more than the Bell and Carlson mfg'd Ti.

E, BTW... you thinking of a lighter companion to your M70 308? That Mc-stocked Fwt of yours is still one of my all time favorites of any I've seen on these forums... great rig!

BA

I have a long action Ti. I really like it, but I have to say the Kimber is probably a better stock from the factory. Barrels are about equal. Actions are more a preference. Ti is less money, but Kimber better out of the box. Yet, I bought mine w/ an eye toward the future.

Kimber is about as customized as it can be out of the box. Replacement stocks aren't common, calibers are limitted to WSM or short action standards. Remingtons can be had in any caliber short or long, even Mag bolt face, when opened up & a Sako extractor installed. Barrels, stocks, triggers, etc. are easy to find and easy to install. Actions need less tuning/truing to be exceptional.

This is my plans for the future. Brown, "pounder" Kevlar stock, Alum. bolt shroud, I worked the trigger, did the bedding. Next is the caliber & barrel change.

I don't think you'd go wrong w/ either.

Beartrack, Kimber will be adding LA's this fall with the Big Sky version coming out after the new year. The line up will be 270, 7mm RM, 30-06, 300 WM and 338 WM initially. I still wish they'd offered the MT version with bottom metal, but I'm a bit old fashioned that way...

Well, I am going to wait for one of those as my "geezer gun" as I have yet to find a Montana that felt right to me and sending guns back to the USA for warrantee is a huge p.i.t.a.

I just had a new Kimber TLEII sts. .45 pistol put away for me at one of my usual gunshops, looks like a very nice piece. After Katrina, I feel like owning a few more "target" guns, if you get my drift; we are due for a tectonic shift here in Vancouver and looters just don't impress me much.........

E, I would be interested in a picture or two of the rifle Brad is talking about!

Chuck

Kute,
Before you let them swipe your Visa, scrub the bore of the TLE and check for signs of rust. Not sure why, but Kimbers can be shipped soaked in oil, and still have rusty bores. Finding this out AFTER you own the gun just starts things off on the wrong foot.

TK2

Chuck, I too was interested, so I did a little digging. Here's a link to a pic of the rifle. Great blueprint, E.

Eremicus' rifle

This post is not directed at anyone......

I agree that the Ti's stock is a bit cheap. I have a hole in one of my Ti 7-08 stocks. I'll post a pic after church if I'm home.

It appears their is a 1/8" void between the outer shell of the stock and the composite material they used. The material does not appear chopped though. I'm not sure if that is consistant for the entire stock, but I have a feeling it is a production mistake to have a void in that spot. So much for a tough stock..........

Brad, do you know if Kimber has any plans for a 17 HMR. They have the Mach 2 but I wish the would go with the HMR. I called them the other day, and the guy on the phone had no information on it. Thanks

Bonzi, I didn't want to give the impression the Ti stock was no good because I don't think that at all. I'll bet it could be pressed into a life of service without a hitch. I recently put together a little M700 270 Mountain rifle with one. I think it's a heck of a stock for the money. The point I was trying to make is when you add everything up the Kimber is a bargain for only fifty bucks more than the Ti (around here). One negative about the 84's and 8400's (to me) are the feed ramps. IMO they're too darn steep compared to Rem and Win's. Perhap's that'll change in the future.

17 HMR? Not sure...

I looked at the Remmy, being a Remmy fan, and chose the Kimber. IMO, it is a great rifle. I spoke with lots of folks, with Kimber, and with Melvin Forbes of NULA who consulted with Kimber on how to build their stock, before ordering my Montana. Yes, it did have to go back for feeding work, but the adjustment was done quickly, and the rifle consistently shoots 5 shot groups in the .8's with a variety of bullets. I love the stock design and the triggers are outstanding for a factory gun. I just took delivery on a custom ultralight .338 that cost three times what my Kimbers did, shoots no better, and was promptly sent back for a variety of problems. If I had known Kimber was coming out with a .338 I would not have considered going the custom route - no need.... I just checked the Kimber web site and edited this post. They make no mention of a "Big Sky" or a long action Montana. Is this internet rumor or accurate info?

I asked about a 17 HMR and Kimber does not have an action long enough. Sales of 17's were hot and now are not.

A long action on the 8400 is due out now. The initial caliber will be 30-06 and then the 270 Win. This will be in the Classic only at first and is on price pages sent to dealers a couple of weeks ago. I was told that the feed ramps were redesigned but this does not mean that they are in production.

This is my take on the feed ramps is that they will be more gradual on the long 8400 and get phased in at some point on the short 8400's and maybe the 84M's. The 84M's feed ok for me as they are now.

Just spoke with Kimber. They told me there was no plans for a long action version of the Montana. The gal made no mention of a long action being available in the classic. Sounds like savage99 may have a better source of info than the receptionist at the Kimber 800#. 99, any word on the reality of a LA Montana?

After the first of the year...

I built what IMO is just about the perfect rifle for just about any game under 500 pounds.

You can read more about it here:

VAC Rifle Link

This afternoon I recieved an email from a Kimber rep that states they do plan a stainless rifle in a long action. He didn't say when it would be available but it is coming. Sure wish I hadn't laid down the $$$ for the disappointing MGA .338.

Really?... a LA Kimber Big Sky? Hot digity dog!

Hey wait... haven't I been saying that throughout this post? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

MTBrad

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Brad if you said "hot diggity dog" before I don't recall it (grin)

As a southpaw I just set back and get to dream of the options you normal folks have.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I bought a Kimber Montana 300WSM this fall and am very pleased. It feeds and shoots very well. No problems. I have two Dakotas on synthetic stocks and I much prefer the Kimber Kevlar stock over Dakota's. The Kimber required no break-in as did my Dakotas. The first three shot group was .8 something with a 2.5X with a huge post reticle....I though this 6.5 pound combination would kick like hell but it is very mild.

Now I can retire an old Remington Pump gun and send it to a leftie in Fairbanks. It's at least ambidextrous .......and he'd give his left arm to be ambidextrous!

Montana's nick name is the the "Big Sky" State. I doubt they will have a rifle called "Big Sky" and a rifle called the Montana. It's kind of a redundant.

Never overestimate the intelligence of a marketing department. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Here, here. Sako and/or Tikka and you"ll get it right the first time!

Steve

Good grief, some folks are slow on irony!

It's my own made up name for the Kimber Stainless... ya know, living in Montana and all...

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I resemble that remark Vern! Can shoot a handgun either hand makes no difference to me. But a rifle going up to my right shoulder is like watching your average girl try and throw a ball. Not a pretty sight.

Well, thanks to a certain gun shop in Eagle River and their ability to hook me up with a really good deal, I shall soon (like tomorrow after work <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) be the owner of a Remington Titanium chambered in .260 Remington. I decided against the 7mm-08 at the last minute and wanted to try out the .260 Rem. for the first time.

Now if my leg will heal fast enough so I can take this rifle on a deer hunt next month.

I'm guessing with a Leupold 3-9x40 riding on top will have my rifle setup well under 7 lbs.

Bear, let us know how she shoots... now if I can just talk you outa that hulking scope and into a 2x7x33 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh, oh, Brad, according to Sitka Deer that is the worst bastardized scope Leupy offers. But I like em too, have one on my sheep rifle and one I purchased from the Binster as a backup in the safe. Only time I was disappointed in it was one early a.m. on a guided moose hunt, had a moose cross the river right by camp, was wishing for my 1.75x6 it's an older one with the bigger bell and can't remember exact size, but no one else could count brow tines on the moose with all the other scopes in camp, so prolly was no loss.

1ak, I've used the 2x7 as my mainstay since the late 80's. The new VXII version is quite an improvement over the old Vari XII and is about like the VariXIII 1.75x6. I've never wanted for more.

I'm not sure. I really like those Leupold 3-9x40 scopes.

Bear, no doubt the 3x9x40 is a great scope... for me it's just out of place on a petite rifle like the 84M. YMMV.

bearstalker, if you want to try the 2x7 I could probably loan you mine to see how you liked the fit and performance as I stated previously, I have an extra.

The Ti won't be a pig in a poke. You know it will be highly accurate.

The 3-9X40 Leupold is awesome.

Holy thread resurection!

On a side note, I will own a real Ti someday, Ill settle on faux ti's for now.

Damn, old thread! Too bad retard had to post on it...

Wow, people were polite to each other in 2005 around here.

Well why did you do it then?

Just to add to the old post. That trigger guard on the old version Ti is silver painted, NOT stainless steel. Can't vouch for the new version but it weighs more and costs much more.

It's always been aluminum. It weighs more because the stocks are now made by Bell & Carlson.

I would love to own a Rem Ti...The factory bolts are KOOL!
My Kimber Montana rocks!

All 700 TI stocks new and old are made by B&C. The new one had the full bedding block.

I have a Gen I TI that I like very much. Nothing wrong with a montucky either. Very nice rifles both. A bunch of us have most likely spent a lot more for quite a bit less.

Sounds like you don't own a magnet, or a Ti?

I still remember when folks shot and Hunted...long before it was "fashionable" to do neither and for Window Lickers to guess about same like they had.

Poignant reiteration here within,as the dilldoes were few in retrospect,feedback was garnered by doing and Imagination was yet to come into vogue as a viable "answer". Now it's deemed as being "acceptable",for Do-nothin' Dumbphucks to espouse imaginary tales,imaginary factoids and to feign they've an imaginary clue.

Spent primers remain the Supreme Tutorial and it really ain't a stretch to savvy who do and don't. Very easy to discern the influx of idiots,their timeline and the advent of Imagination.

Cracks me up,that the idiots cain't savvy why they are idiots,or why they ain't coddled by all. Swampy and Jeff-O being the primest of examples and from all angles. They've zero qualm talking out their asses,about things they've never seen or done and will go the "extra" mile and chart with relish...to remove all [bleep] doubt.

Too funny!...............

Likely 'cause that predated the appearance of certain members who now tend to pollute the atmosphere with BS and bad manners?

Just a guess.

Where do these clueless liars come from?

This rates right up there with the guy who posted he saw a mountain lion dragging a mule deer buck up into a tree to eat it.

Remember that one!

holly crap this is an old thread! since this i've acquired two Ti's and a MT. give me the TI for the SA and the MT for the WSM's...

Yep..
I would own another S/A Ti if they ever make the original again.

The original Ti stocks were not made by Bell & Carlson. Ti triggerguards were and have always been aluminum. Even if they were stainless, a magnet wouldn't stick to them.....[bleep].

You're dead wrong there...

The original Ti stocks weren't made by B&C ? Coulda swore they were. Who made them then ?

The original Ti's, the new Alaskan Ti's, and the LVSF stocks have ALWAYS been made by B&C. Swampy's just a dumba$$, don't pay him no mind.

You have exceeded your dumbphuckitude rating by a country mile. They have always been made by B&C if you think not supply facts....

Friendly, polite Campfire in '05 where like minded individuals talked about hunting and shooting. Guitar playing, dope smoking, Obama loving hippy joins on 4/21/07 and things have been going downhill ever since. Do the math.

Nope, they weren't made by B&C.

All 3 of mine are/were.

If you say not then who did make them?

Google....google....Remington brochure.......google........$hit!

Don't tease us. Were they made in China then ?

Lol. Kiss my guitar-playing, hippy ASS! How's that for polite for ya, wanker-breath?

Actually, if the truth even matters, Stick got banned in '07 not long before I joined and you and about a dozen others went batshit and screwed the place up for years...

you really are a [bleep] genius......just cause stainless steel makes a poor magnet does not mean it aint magnetic.....so long as the alloy doesnt have nickle you can pretty well bet you can stick a magnet to it....those with nickle, well it depends....most the time yah cant stick a magnet to it some times the attraction is real weak....

"Too dumb to operate a magnet" is probably listed as cause on many of his exit interviews.

I'd also enjoy finding out who made the old Ti stocks if not B&C. I bought the first one I ever saw, and though I'm sure it isn't the first one ever made it has a B&C stock.

Guns Magazine had an article when the original Remington Titanium came out. It states the stock was made by B&C.

The original Ti stocks were always made by Bell and Carlson.
The original Ti triggerguard was always steel, never aluminum.

Nonsense.....

My Gen 1 Ti has an aftermarket aluminum trigger guard, the original steel one is in the original owners gun case.

They had alloy triggerguards. The stocks were initially made by a very well known major stock company. Soon afterward B&C took over the project.

you do realize stainless steel is an alloy......

Birkenstocks ?

None have ever been made of stainless steel. Remington has used satin nickle plated steel triggerguards on some other models.

Swamp,

You're the perfect example on why two people (your parents) with bad genetics should NOT be allowed to breed.

Your the perfect example of why people and animals shouldn't breed.

Finally, something I can agree with.

I enjoyed this post very much...

You guys do realize that you're arguing with...

(A) one of the world's great trolls

or

(B) one of the world's dumbest people

Either way, you CAN'T win and I would encourage you to disengage Maverick.