I'm very interested in getting a LAW Closer or Professional but can't locate any actually for sale. Does anyone know if they are actually available, or when they will be?

Whittaker's in KY ought to be able to hook you up.

Thanks.
I also posted on Ask the Gunwriters so probably should refer future comments to that Forum

They are available. I handled a professional earlier this week at my local Sportsmans Warehouse.

What did you think of them ?

From a previous post of mine:

I'll 2nd what Darren said. Also just fondled one last week for a 2nd time. Also a 300 Mag, the example at my Sportsmans overall was a really nicely balanced rifle. Fit & finish was 1st rate, the action was darn slick. I could own one of these in a short action and be happy to hunt with it.

Anyone know the mag box length of the short actions?

2.85"

Thanks. Was hoping they did a 3".

Why, to match their slow twists......

No man...looking for good things that will work when I rebarrel it.... Just joking. It looks like they went to a 1/9 with their .243. Would prefer a 1/8 but could live with the 9.

I'd guess 98% of hunters don't give a rip about twist or mag box length but I could be wrong. I'd like to see it a bit longer myself, but not a deal killer.

If 98% don't care and there's no downside to a faster twist, shorter throat and/or longer box, why not do it that way?

John

Great point.

Maybe you can ask Ed Brown, or Bansner?

You're the one that made the statement. That's why I was asking you.

John

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I figure Bansner, Brown, etc know way more about it than 99.9% of the people here that always bitch and moan about twist rates. Nosler did the same thing with the Patriot, and speaking specifically about the short action 7mm08, it's extremely accurate.

I'm guessing you are right, in that they likely know more than you.

[bleep], there are more than a few Nosler bullets that you can't shoot in Nosler rifles. That's marketing brilliance.

There is NO downside to adding a 'little' twist, but the stupid never seem to understand that.

Once again, you have nothing to offer but your loud mouth. Business as usual. Nosler can't even keep up with demand for their rifles or bullets now, with the possible exception of the E-Tip.

When I start having trouble killing stuff, I'll holler at you since you've proven to be so good at it.

rec'd this message yesterday from LAW:

"Thanks for the inquiry. We just signed a new rep group to the Southeast, you should begin seeing new dealers in that area listed on our website soon.
In the mean-time, you can order from any dealer and have it shipped to your local FFL dealer.
Talley Rings are available from Talley; be sure to order them to fit the Nesika Bay receiver, which matches our scope base hole spacing. Otherwise, any Weaver or Picatinny ring will fit the bases that accompany the rifle.
Sincerely,
James Diehl
Production Manager"

Thanks SKane: just bought one from Whittakers in KY, 308, someone bought one elsewhere and traded it in there, LN, 1299. Hope it's good and I don't end up wishing I'd got another cooper 54.

I'm real interested in hearing what you think of that rifle garCH. Professional or Closer ?

I think I handled that one last time I was there. Pretty nice stick...

It wasn't bought elsewhere and traded. It was my pre-production sample. You won't be disappointed. Had it been any other chambering, I would have never let it hit the shelf....

How are the actions ? Smooth ? Well machined ?

They're exceptional rifles -- at least what I've seen.

The actions aren't silky smooth, but that's the Cerakote. I'm sure they'll polish in time. The fit, finish and machining is superb. Again, just my observation from what I've seen.

Lots of features of a full custom build at a portion of the price.

Thanks. If I get one, the CeraKote will be the first thing to go.

I ordered a Professional in 280ai. Amazingly, turn around was only a few months. Received it in early July.

Pretty happy with it so far. Haven't had a chance to shoot it,due to work.

Tony

will report how I like it after I shoot it.
Thanks for the background shortactionsmoker, reassuring.
it replaces a Weatherby Lightweight Sporter (not ultralight) in 308 that was stolen a couple weeks ago, along w my Tikka 695 in 300 WM and Dakota 76 in 270. i actually specifically wanted 308 and cerakote. fortunate to have found another 695 in 300 WM unfired; not going to replace Dakota which I got just over half price new in 1997 and with which I have shot a black bear and numerous deer. time for new memories I suppose.

Got a chance to handle a LAW professional in 26 Nosler today at the LGS. As many have said, it appears to be a very well finished product. The main difference I could see, besides barrel fluting, removable muzzle break, 3 pos safety, etc, is that the stock has a slimmer wrist, and overall slimmer profile than the Nosler Patriot, which is also a very well finished rifle and great shooter. Bolts cycle very "slickly" in both as well.

That's the exact setup I'm leaning toward. I've been debating between 280ai, 7RM, and 300WM. The 280 would be the most versatile for my needs.

recd it today, LAW Closer in 308. I have a Conquest scope and Tikka rings coming so hope to shoot it next week. Certainly VERY pleased w fit and finish, trigger pull using snap cap, weight and balance, etc. Some ceracote rubbing off on bolt but I don't mind

I bought the Professional in 280AI. The rifle looks awesome but sucks in the accuracy department. After seasoning I tried 4 different factory ammo from Nosler. Best group was 1.1 inch at 96 yards and the worst was 6 inches. Sent the rifle back due to major accuracy issues. The 1.1 inch group was 3 shots, the group after letting the barrel completely cool and shooting 2 more rounds was 3.2inches. I tried several different bullets and powders in reloading. The accuracy was still junk. I called Legendary and talked with JD. He stated that there is some stock issues with the 280AI and 300 Win. Mags that first went out early in production. He had me send back the rifle. They sent back the rifle and a test target. The test target with factory Nosler ammo was shot by Legendary after the fixed the issue and to verify accuracy of 1 inch or less with factory ammo per their guarantee. The test target showed 2 groups. The first was a group of 1.885 and the second a1.1inch. Even they couldn't get the to shot 1 inch or less. I call and they stated that they fixed the stock issue and for me to shoot the rifle. I shot took out the rifle with all Nosler factory Amos and some different hand loaded that I had already tried. Best 3 shot group at 96 yards was 1.229inch and the worst was 4.375 inch. The best 3 shot group turned into a 5 shot group of 2.992 at 96 yards. I talked to legendary today about the accuracy and my true disappointed. They want me to send it back again! I sold all of my rifles to buy this one and a G7 BR2 rangefinder for hunting. I was supposed to do a backcountry hunt Aug 30 through tomorrow the 4th. Well that didn't happen due to not having my rifle. My experience so far with these rifles and Legendary arms is not good at all so far. At this time I would not recommend them. Just my experience so far.
Brian

My Closer in 308 is very accurate, maybe even .5 MOA so far in just 2 outings to the range, using hand loaded 150 grain sierra pro hunters or hornady interlocks over R15. did NOT like 165s. I am happy!

Glad to hear your 308 in the closer is doing well for you. The guys have stated several times that the issue is with the stocks. This issue is with the 280AI and the 300 Win with serials of 400 or less. That is per 3 different guys at Legendary. After the stock was fixed and sent back to me. The accuracy was very inconsistent still. Still won't shoot under 1.100" at 96 yards with any ammo for a 3 shot and a 5 shot of 5" with group shift.. This is under perfect conditions at a bench. So it is going back again. This rifle is so inconsistent that I will not hunt with it. To hunt with it would just be so unethical. I could only trust it hitting its mark at less than 25 yards.
Brian

Whoa. I wasn't expecting that as a field report. You guys keep the reports coming.

Anybody that would sell all their rifles to buy one from a new company for a backcountry hunt in the not too distant future can't be the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Higbean,



This contributes to the thread?

I see your point, but we all love new rifles and bansner has been rock solid in the past. I'd probably take this bet too. What rifle looney has not been impetuous?

Reports like this are better than a bunch of flowery fluff bs that often times is not truly deserved. So, it's worth weighing the report at least.

Can anyone hang pics?

David Petzal has a blog over at F&S. About a month ago he did a review on the Professional. His experience mirrors Brianc74. He was able to get it to shoot submoa, but it wasn't a good time getting there.

I don't need a 7 Rem mag, but I want one. I've been trying to make a decision between a high end Sako A7 series, a Cooper, and the LAW Professional. I've had a Cooper, and regret letting it go. It's the most expensive option of the three, but I know it'll shoot when I get my hands on it.

Si Cabrón.

Higbean,



This is from a mature person or a young teenager?

If calling you Cabrón is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

If you do not have something to add to the field report. Then just read and go on. If all you are going to do is make comments about the poster in this thread and nothing about the the actual thread titling. Then keep to your self and drive on.

For the people adding their experiences and knowledge about Legendary Arms Works. Keep it coming.

Brian

Brian,

I was pointing out the major rookie move on your part because I'm skeptical how much shooting a guy who'd sell all his rifles for a range finder and a brand new companies rifle right before hunting season actually does. Sorry for this inconvenient fact, but that is how it comes off.

Higbean,



Again, how does this contribute to the thread? You see your opinion is just that. Not back up by much. And worth less.

And again. Back to the actual point in this thread. The experiences and knowledge about Legendary Arms.

So to (Higbean)

Here is a little on my shooting background.
I have been reloading and shooting LR for 30 years
I have shot Fclass and 600 and 1000 yard competition for 20 years
I was a Army over watch (sniper) for 5 years
I work for a very well known rifle smith in Idaho. I build custom loads for his clients and their new custom 1000 LR rifles.

I had owned the gen one Gunwerks BR2 rangefinder. So I am well ad versed in that item. I gave that to my son and bought the Gen 2. The Gen 2 works the exact same as the Gen 1
I wanted a lighter rifle than what I have been toting around. My previous rifle setup was 12lbs. I wanted something under 8lbs.
I was just going to build a rifle using my Rem700 action.
But then in Feb. I started reading about Legendary Arms and what Mark B. Was going to be offering this year. I bought the rifle when it arrived at my Sportsmans Store Aug. 10th. This would give me 3 wks to work up a accurate load before my hunt. I don't work and shoot out at the shooting club daily. So 21 days of load development.

I did my research via internet and talking to all 3guys at Legendary. All three guys stated if I bought that exact rifle after giving them the serial number that guarantee it to shoot 1inch or less with factory ammo and that they would expect with custom reloads to shoot under 1/2 inch at 100 yards. This rifle did not even come close to 1 inch consistently at 100 yards
This rifle consistently shoots 3 inches at 100 yards off the bench with me shooting it. I had another gentleman shoot it at the public range. He shot a 4.5 inch group with the most accurate load for this rifle.
The rifle is in route to legendary at this time. They paid for the return to them again. The paid for the cheapest way Back to them. I shipped it out to them last wk. FedEx tracking shows delivery to them on the 14th.
Like I have said before. At this time, I would not suggest this rifle. My experience with this Legendary Arms Professional 280AI is not good. The rifle looks great, but shoots horribly.

Brian

Hope this one shoots better...

Brian, I sure hope you get your gun back and it shoots lights out in time for next years hunt. If not, let me know and I'll send you out one of my loaners. Ringman would probably do the same but with the caveat that you don't shoot more than two rounds what with throat erosion being what it is....

Thanks for the offer. I just want to hunt with my own equipment.
Got off the phone with Bob at Legendary Just 10 minutes ago. I guess he is the General manager. I asked for my money back or just send me a new rifle that meets their guarantee. He passed the buck off to Mark Basner and said he can't make that decision. I left a message on Marks personal cell yesterday. Still have not gotten a call from Mark in regards to left message. just my opinion. They just plan on being legendary in words not in action. If people notice. Because I have. Guys that have done a review on a Legendary Arms rifle. These reviews do not show a couple of consecutive groups that are 1inch or less at 100 yards. I am finding this odd.
Just me maybe.
Brian

Roy-
Nice looking setup!!!

You're obviously very well qualified, and thanks for your service.

Dang.....I'm interested in these LAW's, so I appreciate your candid observations. Please keep us posted how it turns out if you don't mind.

Well this takes that rifle of the possible list. Appreciate the candor. jorge

I've got a LAW Professional in 260 Remington ordered, and now you've got me nervous. I was about to have Hill Country Rifles build me a 260 but the Professional had everything I wanted (except for the muzzle brake) at half the cost and all the reviews were favorable so I ordered the LAW. The rifle is supposed to be in by now, but haven't heard anything. Will report on how it shoots.

I think Jorge is right.
To the other poster, I would use Pete Peiper of Precision Barrel Work in Hempstead, Texas. I've known Pete for over 20years.
Check his website: http://www.precisionbarrelwork.com/index.htm
Pete probably has the most complete 1 man shop, with multiple new lathes, mills, and CNC equip. He always keeps the latest new machines to do the best job. He has to farm out nothing.


You may go to his gallery with the photos. I believe the first fancy BR rifle used to be mine and if you scroll down, you will see a photo of a 5 shot 200 yard group I shot in Houston in years past. A .153 group. Pete builds an incredibly accurate rifle.

I bet LAW will get stuff figured out and start turning out good guns. Seems to be some growing pains with all these start up companies.

i am in China until the 19th, when i get home i'll shoot my 308 Closer more extensively and post some target photos

Sorry to hear about your trouble. Hope this doesn't turn into Forbes II.

It would be smart of them to make this right PDQ. Stuff gets around pretty quick these days.


Good luck.

I guess the Green Mountain barrels ain't that good.
If I were having to pay for a rifle, I'd specify my brand of barrel.

Did Pete ever mention to you why he won't work on Weatherby Vanguard actions?

Not Butch, but my guy told me the barrels are fitted very tightly in Howa actions. He didn't say he wouldn't work on them, just that it was a pain.

Wonder if Pete would work on bare actions?

So big surprise. I was told by Bob the general manager yesterday that Mark would call me yesterday, (Bob Guaranteed it). NO PHONE CALL. I called Marks personal cell today. He answered. I asked for a new rifle that will shoot 1 inch or less consistently per the guarantee that Legendary Arms Works has, or just give me my money back. Since they couldn't even get the rifle to shoot 1" or less per the targets that they sent back with the rifle. Mark said no. That when the rifle gets back to them on 9-14-2015 it will get his personal attention. He said after he fixes it again. If it shoots 1inch 3 shot out of a few 3shot groups then it will meet their guarantee. And he will ship it back.

So I guess that the guarantee of Legendary Arms rifles to shoot 1 inch or less with factory ammo. Is really that this 280AI Professional will shoot close to one inch every once in awhile. I truly do not trust these guys.

Brian

The question I would have is about how it made it out of their shop like that. Do they
test-fire for accuracy, or just have some kind of ISO-ish procedure in place that should yield the accuracy they promise?

I forgot.
So talked with 2 other guys today. John bought a 300 Win and Stan bought a 280AI. Stan has already sent back his rifle and got it back. He is having the same accuracy issues. His rifle has yet to shoot a 1 inch group as well. He is getting ready to ship it back again. John was at the shooting range that I was at today. His best groups are 3.5" at 100 yards. I told him the issues that people are having with the Professional chambered in 280 AI and 300 Win. I told John my story. I told him that they know that the first 400 rifles per Jd the shop manager have stock issues that prevent the rifles from having good accuracy. John said he will be sending the rifle back next wk. he said he can't trust a rifle that shoots that bad. He bought the rifle to hunt with on the 10th of Oct.. Deer opener. John said he has other rifles. He will just use one of them. He said it really suck. I told him I know. So this means that 3 out of 4 rifle sold from Sportsmans Warehouse have been sent back due to really bad accuracy. The other one is a 26 Nosler. Per a few of the guys at Sportsmans. The guy was going out to a public range with the rifle today.
Brian

NOTE TO SELF......

When Bansner got into financial troubles a few years ago he lost a lot of his good smiths and stock builders. The owners of Trop Elite brought in $ and bought a share of Bansner's business, thus forming L.A.W.

What stock problems are there?

That's a chickenshit 1" guarantee.

From what JD said. The stock issue is ( The action screw holes are machined to small and the front aluminum block is not put in the stocks correctly.



I think there are more issues then just those. They fixed those problems when I sent the rifle in the first time. The Rifle still shoots like crap.

I had the same accuracy problems with a $3,000 Brown a few years ago. After several attempts and failures I called the credit card company. The lady told me, "The sooner he gets the rifle back the sooner you get your money back." It went back that day.

The the guy, I think his name is Mark, had the gall to keep my action for a $750 ransom.

I would call the credit card company. But I paid cash at Sportsmanship Warehouse in Nampa Idaho. They told me all warranty work is to be with the Manufacturer. I don't hold them responsible for a [bleep] rifle. They only sold it. They did not build it.

Brian

I am really sorry to hear about the problems you are having.

This rifle was on my short list, but I'd never risk it now.

Thats a shame. Nice looking rifle. I thought they might have something there. Them not willing to send you a new rifle or get back to you quickly tells me theres a good chance they are overwhelmed with warranty issues.

Mark yesterday. Did state. That my rifle is just one of over 100 rifle in the last month that he has had to take to the range after being fixed.
I said. Then what is this telling you sir. The rifles are not going out the door being proof checked.
Mark muddered (what the $uck)

I truly believe that Mark Basner does not have a good team surrounding him anymore. I believe he does not have his heart in it anymore. I think that the bottom line is. He does not care to put out a great product anymore. He only wants money. He does not care about the individual anymore.

Brian

Is this a fact or rumor Butch ?

I shot a 3.593" group today with my T3 7mm-08.

At 400 yards.

I truly do not understand why people spend thousands on a maybe when you can just buy a freakin' Tikka.


P

Because accuracy, while certainly important, isn't the only quality that many people desire in a rifle.

The first LAW I saw was the rep's pre-production sample. It was pillar bedded in lieu of the bedding blocks. The bedding was flawless and was truly a work of art.

The second LAW I saw was the pre-production sample they sent me in 308. It had the bedding blocks in lieu of pillar bedding. They sent me the rifle with the original extractor. Feeding wasn't terrible, but needed a firm bolt cycle to be "perfect". I spoke with Mark on the phone about this and he told me to return it as they'd changed extractors and were also cerakoting some of the parts a different color. I did and it came back perfect.

I shot that rifle enough to know it shot really well. The barrel was smooth and didn't foul. After playing with that rifle a bit, I put it back on the used shelf at the shop. garCH on here bought that rifle and has commented on the accuracy.

I like the action and especiall the three position safety. If there are kinks to be worked out, I'm sure they'll get them addressed....and yes, they should have been worked out before shipping.

Thanks for the info. I hope you're right about them getting things right. No doubt there's a lot of pressure to start getting product out the door and payment coming in; a totally different situation than running a custom shop.

Well on Friday. Mark said he would let me know when it got in on Monday (today). He said the rifle would get his personal attention as soon as it arrived there at the shop today.

Well big surprise. The rifle was there in the am, and I have heard nothing. Not even we got it.

These guys really suck. They really have zero follow through on what the say or promise.

Brian

I bought a 26 Nosler about a month ago. The fit and finish on the rifle look great…I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, and after reading this thread Im concerned…

Billy

I received a phone call this evening from the CEO of Legendary Arms Mr. Dunn. He said how very sorry he is for the way I felt, in the case for my Rifle and its accuracy. He said that they will get this rifle shooting for me and make sure I am very happy with the performance of my Profesional in 280 AI. I got the impression that he was indeed truly sorry for this situation. He said he will be in contact with me, to give updates as updates come up.

I really do think that he does care at this time after that phone call.

At this time. I would say thankyou Mr. Dunn
I will update you guys as I am update

Brian

I'll bet it will shoot when you get it back.

I hope he can enjoy it if it does. I've tripped rifles down the road for less even after they've been completely fixed. Once I'm soured on a rifle it's over for me.

David

Surely, brianc must know how much Mark's personal attention costs? A lot. About 6k. No one is paying that for these rifles.

The rifle should shoot, no doubt. As well as a cooper I would hope.

But, all this crying about immediate attention is unreasonable.

If these rifles carry like a Bansner, which they should because the stock is the same, then that is one of the most endearing qualities of the rifle. We all expect MOA accuracy at this point I agree.

Mark's stock design is a real joy to carry for miles and shoot. It is an experience.

Can anyone post groups of their LAW rifles that shoot well?

If Mark said he would call and let Brian know when his rifle came in, then I would expect Mark to call.....not just hand out lip service!

And he did call. Not as early As the OP whined about. Hope Mark makes it right and that all rifles coming out live up to Marks standards.

Your comments are idiotic.

The rifle wouldn't have required any of Mark's attention if it had been sent out right the first time. Or the second time. Anybody that claimed his rifle was an MOA rifle because one 3-shot group out of three fired was inside of an inch would be laughed off this board. I think he has shown remarkable patience.


David

No he didn't. Somebody else did. Its not whining to let others know that you're not receiving the quality of merchandise you paid for and subsequently getting the run around. What is your affiliation w/ LAW rifles?

David

Anybody can put out a lemon. If it is returned then sent back and there is still a problem then the company is no longer in consideration. I'm willing to give someone a second chance.....after that, if they say it's good and it's not then there is not much use in sending it to them again.

Hopefully Brian will get it back with all issues fixed and shooting dime sized groups. I hope he updates us either way.

No affiliation. I feel that not receiveing a call the first thing on a business day is not an issue. Had it not happened by the end of that day an issue it would be.let's see what happens? I too am interested in the outcome as I am hoping to add one of their rifles to my safe.

Read what he posted and look at the time stamps again (if you haven't set up your time zone in your profile, the time stamp will be off). Mark said he would call him when the rifle was received, he verified that it was delivered in the morning through his delivery svc. At 5:40pm Central time he posted that he had not gotten a call from Mark. Later in the evening the CEO (not Mark) called him and he posted that (and was more positive about it than I could have been).

He isn't whining. He paid a lot of money for a rifle with an accuracy gurantee. The rifle didin't shoot as delivered, was sent back "repaired" and it still didn't shoot. This is it's 2nd trip back, Mark's third shot to make it right and he's giving him attitude about what the MOA gurantee actually means. I'm incredulous that anyone has the balls to defend that kind of response from LAW.

David

I hate to pile on here, but there are 500 dollar rifles (T/C) (Savage?, Weatherby) that will do MOA, and they advertise as such. So I don't think the OP is being unreasonable either. Especially since this is strike two.

I really wanted one of these rifles. This year. I think I'll wait.

I have to agree with you on this. With the $$$ spent there should have been one trip made if there was a problem. When they started asking for serial numbers it tells me they were fully aware of a problem.

I recently purchased the Professional in 300 win mag. I topped it with Warne rings and a Leupold VX3: 4.5-14x40 (Parallax is an issue - big mistake on my part). I've got 37 rounds down the tube so far. The first 10 rounds were break in rounds (shoot-clean-shoot), followed by standard load development with 3-shot strings and random cleanings.

Honestly, the first few shots were exactly what I was looking for, right around 1-inch. Those first 10 shots were break in shots consisting of a fairly decent load of H4831SC and 180 grain Hornady BTSP Interlocks (only had 10 at the time). That being said, it's really hard to definitely say what it was doing between cleanings and a cool barrel - not a 4 shot group.

My goal has been to shoot Nosler A.B's and/or Nosler Partitions. So far, it's pretty obvious the rifle doesn't like either of them. But like any other narrow minded rifle looney, I'm going to keep trying because I just bought a box of 200 grain A.B's.

I found another box of Hornady 180 gr BTSP's that I'm going to start over with. Maybe I got lucky and found a node and a bullet the rifle likes...

I'm just sharing my experience so far and will update the group as I continue load development. This rifle reminds me a lot of my "former" Kimber Montana 300 WSM. The Professional is a dream to handle, but its pretty hard to shoot accurately. The muzzle break does help. But.. It's still a relatively light weight rifle. I purchased some snap-caps to work on my technique and trigger pull. Maybe that's part of the problem folks are having.

I know that Petzal's review of the rifle clearly discussed his challenge and frustration with finding a load the rifle liked - And I think he was using factory ammo.

Bottom line is that experience is telling me this rifle is going to take some effort to figure out. I was hoping for out of the box idiot proof, but it's obviously going to take some finesse. I'm trying to not get discouraged by reading some of the comments on this thread as well. Sure there's a lot of rifles on the market far cheaper than the L.A.W. The L.A.W has some bad-ass components, far exceeding all of the similar priced competition! I love shooting paper targets, but I also love a rifle that looks and feels as indestructible as the Professional! And, when my brother accidently throws a bone saw at the stock when we are gutting my elk (like he did last year to my 300 H&H Ruger No. 1), I won't lose as much sleep!

Just for the heck of it, try some IMR-4350 if you have any with the 180's (try 180 Nosler BT's if you have em). Start with 70 grs up to 72 grs. I have always found IMR-4350 to be very accurate in 300 WM's. Right now I'm using 76 grs of H481sc in my 300 WM with Nosler 180 Combined Technology bullets and it is very accurate with that powder as well. Get's 3100 fps as well.

Gator145
Try H4831 and a Fed215m with the Nosler 200 Accubond
Try the suggested load out of the Nosler manual
I just finished load developement for a customer of Ed Sweet's in Boise Idaho. His load is H4831(70.0), Fed215m, 200 Accubond 5thou off the lands, doing 2780fps out of a 24" barrel 1-10 twist. This load is shooting
1/2" five shot at 110 yards.

I did hear from JD at Legenday Arms today. He did not have any new news about the 280AI I sent back last wk and that they received in the am of Monday 2 days ago. I will update when I am updated.

Brian

Brian, I hope you get you rifle shooting, but I'd also like to know what the problem was/is.

I've found good barrels don't take much, if any work. I've found that just about all 'bad' barrels can usually be made to shoot, but it typically takes 2 pounds of powder and 1000 primers to find that load.

Any time something is stated as 'proprietary' I look someplace else.

I don't [bleep] with picky rifles very long. If it ain't the bedding or the trigger, it goes down the road.

Spending a considerable sum for a rifle, then spending another one to find the one load it will like doesn't interest me.

Too many off the shelf rifles with a new handle on them will do everything I need.

JD from Legendary called today to update me. He said they are still working on my rifle to figure out the cause of the bad accuracy.

I will update you all when I am updated.

Brian

With two tries at this I do not understand why there isn't a brand new rifle with a signed test target with load data on your door step with a brief written apology.

If LAW hadn't made such a big deal on all the gun boards when they announced these series of rifles I wouldn't be as disappointed as I am. I foolishly thought this would be a controlled feed Cooper (with Cooper accuracy and quality at a smaller pricepoint) with a floorplate and a safety I wouldn't have to search for.

Bedding. Tell us about the bedding.

Legendary Arms uses a Hightech stock. The install a rear pillar and a front bedding block. They do not bed the action to the stock that I am aware of at this time. They put 50-55 inch lbs of torch on both the front and rear action screws. This was per a conversation with JD the production manager.

Brian

HS Precision suggests 65 inch pounds of torque with their stocks, IIRC. That's pretty tight, takes a good bit of force to get there. I guess it's to compensate for any irregularities in fit between their aluminum block and the action.

I like to skim bed those stocks and I think I can get by with 45 inch pounds or so, as the fit is assured.

I agree with Steelhead and others, if I pay for a high end rifle, I expect performance. Legendary Arms needs to step up to the plate and do what is right.

DF

With all the trouble this rifle has generated it seems like they would have had their best machinist fit and chamber a Krieger, Bartlein, Broughton, or whatever barrel, had their best bedding man put it in a new stock, and sent it back with some smoking test targets and a heartfelt letter of apology by now.

FWIW, I told my rep about this thread. Companies need to put more stock in forums. I don't think they fully realize how it impacts sales and influences opinions....and they'll never be able to quantify the true losses. This stuff is always at the top of the chain when guys do Google searches on "x" rifles.

Someday, somebody will figure it out...

Great point.

I hope your rep logs onto this site and does a Google search for his product. He may get educated.

LOTS of people Google something before they buy. Negative reports can be a poison pill to a vendor.

DF

Problem is a lot of these guys probably have more than a few gray hairs and still think that a couple of good write ups by Boddington and Simpson are all that's necessary.

They need to hire some younger consultants with a good grasp of modern marketing.

For Christ's sake their website won't even display on my apple devices!

Good point.

With social media and the internet so active these days, a vendor needs to keep up to stay competitive.

The rule 10 years ago is not the rule today. Not even 5 years ago. Marketing is a rapidly evolving beast.

Legendary Arms may not be "legendary" very long if they don't get it together.

Just saying...

DF

Yes it is

Wasn't there a mucky muck from Legendary on here awhile back that Stick tried to set straight on throating and twist rates?

Yes, Paul Reed Don't think he's working for them anymore.

It's called search engine optimization. Someone with good computer skills can get your product at the top or close to the top of a search list by using certain key words in your web page display that, say, Google likes. It's a lot more complicated than that, but that is the basic premise.

I'm sure Stick was dead on right.

Wonder what Paul thought after Stick got through working him over...

DF

No one saw this coming.

These clowns would be better off buying RARs, coating them, putting them in a good stock and selling them as "legendary". ha

You should have a brand new rifle in your hands already.



Travis

Too lazy to cut metric?

Doesn't know how to cut metric?





Travis

Obviously not.




Travis

Good one haha

I know he's a bit of a showman, but look at what Kenny Jarrett does with rifles like that. He has them mounted on his wall, in pieces, cut up by a chop saw. And, no matter who you are and how good you are, you don't always hit a home run.

Legendary need to buy a chop saw and do some Jarrett type showboating, plaster that video all over the social media.

Kenny is saying in all that, he has his standards and if a rifle doesn't measure up, doesn't suit him, no one gets it. It's cut up, the pieces hung on the shop wall. That does make quite a statement.

Legendary need to take note.

DF

Didn't know that about Jarrett but he just went up a notch in my book.

His stuff's not cheap, but crap never leaves the Jarrett shop...

DF

I was one of the first people to put one of the early LAW Professionals in 300 Win mag on layaway. I have the belief that I better put together a new sheep rifle every year. So for this year, I figured the LAW.

I have read many of the different accounts of accuracy problems and issues with bedding. The accuracy issues seem to be bedding based with good accounting of everything else.

I have called the PA folks several different times. I eventually reached Bob who is the COO and shop administrator. He explained to me that there have been 16 rifles out of the 354 that had been sold up to that point returned. This is less than 3%. This is not perfect but LAW knew what was causing their problems.

One of the eight machines that worked on molding the stocks was having difficulties. They said that about 1 in 4 or 5 rifles with stocks built on his molding machine has this issue. They are trying to take care of this as quickly as they can.

One thing that JD noted is that when they are doing accuracy work that they shoot a string of 3 shots with little time for cool down. This means that the third shot sometimes walks a bit because the barrel even if fluted has a petite contour.

I am going to try it but I probably won't get the scope for it for about a month.

Sincerely,
Thomas

20-25% defect rate is dog schit.

Less than 3% returned means a lot of shooters with a crap gun. Maybe they are to dumb to figure it out?

Regardless, still doesn't excuse the OP getting jerked around.

That's BS. A properly bedded rifle w/ a stress relieved barrel won't do that. It's understandable when you buy a factory rifle for $500, but not for what this rifle costs.

David

So David, let me get this straight... A barrel with a more slender contour that heats up is not going to produce more deviation in its groups and wander than a the same exact rifle thicker barrel. I always thought it was the other way around that the heavier a contour of a barrel and the more time allowed between shots would make the deviation less and the groups better.

Think I know what David means....SOME light, stress relieved barrels don't walk;some do.

I know Dober had a bitch of a time with a light contour custom which is very popular and has an excellent reputation for accuracy. They are stress relieved far as I know.I won't say the name of the maker....no point in it.

I've had very good luck with light contours in 270/7mm made by Kreiger and Douglas. Both are stress relieved pretty extensively at various points of manufacture.

I expected great results from the Kreigers;have to admit the Douglas tubes I've had caught me off guard...better than expected.

I hear you Bob, I had a 92 Chevy S10 that was a great truck. Sometimes in the really hot weather when pulling a load it would vapor lock, but that by in large I've had great luck with it.

PS: I like eggs.

So, they know what the problem is but keep producing it and instead of replacing the faulty rifles they try to "fix them"?

"Legendary"...

I didn't say a slender barrel won't produce more deviation in its groups. It shouldn't start throwing shots just because its hot.

David

From what I have seen, a light contoured barrel can walk shots after the barrel really heats up. This is why we shoot a 3 shot group not a 5. With a much larger countour barrel like a sendero, a guy can shoot a 5 shot group before you see any walking. From what I have seen. A rifle put together with less stress shoots inconsistently and a barrel installed to a action and then fitted to a stock with stress or not all put together with out stress will shoot very bad or inconsistent. This rifle shot really bad. Shot 3 shots and point of impact would be at 11:00 of point of aim. Let the barrel totally cool and shoot another 3 shot group with the exact same ammo. The group would hit at 3:00. So a six shot group at 100 yards would be an average of 6" and each 3 shot group averaged 2.25" With this perticulary rifle. I would expect there are a few issues not just one.

Brian

Kobuko68
I was told as well, that only so many rifles had been sold. So Bob state 300, JD just 2 days earlier stated 600 and Mark 3 days after Bob said 1000. When I talked with Mark a few weeks ago. He said he has been at the range a lot. He said that he has been confirming accuracy with a little over 100 repairs over the last month. It maybe just me, but I am hearing conflicting numbers from different people. One would think Hmmm?

JD said that all of the 300 Whichesters and 280AI of the 400 rifles, they think have the stock problems. I do know that all the rifles in these chamfering locally have had to go back after bought. I have been pm'd by 7 different guys that have had to send their rifles back due to really bad accuracy. 5 of those six had to send their rifles back after receiving back from Legendary arms just like me.

Talked with Bob last Wed.. He said they are continuing to shoot my 280AI trying to figure out how to get the rifle to shoot as their gurantee of 1" or less at 100 yards with factory ammo.

Continuing to just wait on a rifle.

Brian

Just went out to his site 7400 bucks on average.. 4 times the price

I know exactly 2 people that own them and they are tickled with them

Brian

I've seen the same thing, owned rifles that behaved like that. I had a Rem Model 7 that would keep 5 shots in an inch if you were careful not to over heat it. Get it hot and the groups opened up to 3". I didn't think that was so bad for what I paid for the rifle.

The Kimber Montana I replaced it with wouldn't shoot as accurately 5-shots were generally 1.5", but it didn't make any difference how hot you got it. From stone cold to too hot to touch the shots didn't walk. Had it rebarreled w/ a Hart barrel and now it will put 5 shots inside an inch (most groups are less) as fast as you can pull the trigger. This is a considerably lighter contour than a #3.

David

How hot do you think this barrel was by the time Larry was done shooting?

http://youtu.be/TRRahHX9Zkg

See any light barrel heat induced POI walking?

David

I think in this case. The issue has nothing to do with a skinny barrel. I think it has many issues. I think the action to stock fit, and possibly barrel, and barrel to action fit. But I won't know till I get it back again.

Brian

A guy over at OpticsTalk just bought a Professional in 6.5 Creedmoor and reported around 1' groups with factory Hornady 120 SST's and around 1/2" groups with factory AMAX's. Only issue was a very heavy trigger pull.

I agree, just following up with my discussion w/ kaboku68 and the comments he got from LAWS. I sincerely hope you get your rifle back soon and that it exceeds your expectations when you do.

David

They are overpriced, IMO.

But, Kenny is obsessed with putting out a top product. His crew works up loads, spends a lot of time breaking in and developing loads for each gun.

If a gun makes it past the chop saw and out the door, it shoots.

I guess you can do that for 4X's the price.

I'm thinking it could be done for less than that.

Just me, just saying.

And, as mentioned earlier, these aren't $500 factory guns, churned out in great numbers. Customers paying more than factory deserve more than factory.

DF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw-E_NJhnao

This is what I was talking about.

If a rifle strings shots because the barrel gets hot it means there's something wrong. The truth is a 3-shot MOA guarantee is really a 5-shot 1.5MOA guarantee - I note he didn't say that you can expect 5-shots in an inch if you wait 20 minutes between rounds.

Firing hand loads voids the warranty. I stopped watching there, I've seen enough.

Thanks for the link.

David

That's the craziest thing I've heard. I was once interested in these, but not so much anymore. I hope the OP gets his rifle sorted out too. Seems the LAW guys are taking their merry time with it though.....I know I would not operate that way, especially when bringing a new product to the market.

If you were trying to do LAW a favor, you didn't.




Travis

When LAW was on here completely ignoring the advice of shooters here who've actually shot out barrels in multiples about what they want in a rifle, I knew they weren't really destined to be the next amazing thing.

A quick perusal of this thread has me asking this.

If they knew - specifically that they had problems with stocks on 2 specific cartridges (which doesn't make sense as would a stock be cartridge specific and not action length) why wouldn't the "repair" to simply be - replace the stock and go about your day? Surely what they've spent in bad press and multiple returns on rifles has exceeded their production/product costs on a new stock.

Unless of course - the excuse is complete BS. Which I'm more inclined to believe...

That IS pretty bad....more than a light barrel contour. Something else is going on.

I saw that.

My light rifles don't start moving at the third shot like that. My Kimber .308 with 23" Broughton will stack three under a half inch almost every time, occasionally 3/8".

But, I bedded that one...

DF

Pretty arrogant attitude when they can't seem to keep their third shot in the group.

They know everything, handloader know nothing...

Thanks, but no thanks...

BTW, that .308 barrel can't be blazing hot after three rounds. I know mine gets warm, not smoking hot after three. Now, my 26 Nos with a #2 contour gets pretty hot after three...

But, this is a .308!

DF

I am pizzed that my POS $1000, 6# 270 Win Montana only averaged 3 in a shade over an inch at 100 on its first outing with the 140 gr TSX. Dearly hoping I can manage to hit an elk with it in a few weeks.

Unless you shoot 10 shot groups and measure them with a caliper down to the nearest .0001 you're doomed on hitting an elk

Yep, minute of an elk is pretty big...

Loonies like tight shooting rifles.

And, they'll still kill an elk.

Plus shoot very small groups...

DF

Yeah this ain't no "stock" problem me thinks. If they knew where the problem was coming from, they'd fix it and give the OP his rifle back.

I purchased the Professional in 280AI a couple of months ago as well... the rifle is currently on its second vacation to PA. They didn't fix the problem the first go round. Thing still shot like crap. Had some 3 round groups where I could stack the first 2 and the 3rd would land 3" off the mark. Other groups where rounds would land in no particular pattern into an awful 4-5" group. Not sure what's going on with my rifle, but let's just say I'm not confident the problem is going to be addressed this trip either. This will be it's last trip to PA. If it does not shoot I will take it to one of the many competent smith's in this area to have it bedded properly and, if necessary, rebarreled. Seriously regretting this purchase. How's that saying go? If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

A $300 Ruger American will shoot better groups than that.

DF

Agreed. I had one in 6.5 creedmoor that was quite a shooter. Bought the wife a tikka t3 to fill the void left by the legendary arms works rifle. That tikka is a nice shooting rifle. Less than half the cost of the LAW and no comparison in the accuracy department. That tikka does live up to its sub moa guarantee.

I would like to thank the folks here that have apparently taken one for the team. I was all-in on one of these but thought I'd hold out to hear some initial reports.

Sorry you gents have had to deal with the frustration.

Yep, that's a big disappointment.

Those guys need to stay on Legendary until they get satisfaction or their money back.

Information/knowledge is power and thanks to the Fire, we get a lot, some of it actually useful...

DF

One thing I notice about "new" rifle models is that they all seem to have these "problems". Especially as they move from "custom" status to mass manufacturing methods. None of them seem to work right and shoot perfectly....at least some of them.

Seems to take awhile before the monkeys are worked out and makers get their act together.Which is why I generally sit back and watch before reaching for my checkbook.

Just more evidence that CNC and computer driven machinery and holding parts to tiny tolerances,synthetic stocks,and modern barrels are not the only answer to a quality rifle.

They still have to be assembled just "so". It's the difference between a great rifle, and a POS that's frustrating to own.

My "problem" with all this is not that there are some issues associated with the launch of a new rifle. It's the apparent lackadaisical attitude in getting it right with the customer. I mean, taking a miffed customer's rifle out to the range to verify whatever is a sign to me that they don't know what to do about it, or don't really care. Good grief, give the man a brand new, proven rifle muy pronto and worry about the non-shooters later.

Yep.

They could call Kenny Jarrett for advice on handling clunkers. But if they chop sawed their bloopers, how many would they have left??

The way they're handling this is a bigger problem than the problem with the rifle, IMO.

DF

If it takes a company this long to sort out a poorly shooting rifle it means:

A) They don't care.
B) They're incompetent.
C) They have a myriad of issues they're dealing with.

Me takes C for $1400...

I would say that the Nosler 48TGR in 338 Win and 48 Patriot in 26 nosler were both accurate out of the box. My Cooper model 52 in 3006 is also very accurate.
My JOC Tribute is very accurate with a smaller contour barrel. I would imagine that with the extra care that went into it and its price point that it fits in this space.

What I find interesting and I will soon find out if I am part of the group of those disappointed is that many of the Kimber owners are only reporting accuracy potential with an after market barrel.

I am curious about one minor thing that when I say it will make everybody go hmm. I notice that the Boddingtons have a 300 Win and 280 AI in professionals and that they are very accurate at least on camera. I also noticed that they had Talley scope mounts. I am wondering if the bases that are supplied with the rifles have been examined? Bases with irregularities can cause lots of problems.

I bet Boddington's rifles didn't just "roll off the line"

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I figure Bansner, Brown etc know WAY more about warranty issues than 99.9% of the people here that always bitch and moan about a poor shooting rifle.

I can't speak for the other Kimber owners that had their rifles rebarreled, but mine was capable of meeting the LAW 3-shot MOA guarantee as delivered. When I first got it I had a problem because I didn't realize the Talley supplied screw was too long for the front base - that isn't a Kimber problem. Once I got that sorted, the rifle shot pretty good. I never bedded it with the factory barrel, that probably would have improved it some also.

David

You're an expert smartass, as verified by you taking "shots" at a kid with one good hand, and one hand missing. Remember that pearl? Bet you're a nice guy in person though. Nevertheless, I'd still bet those LAW's mentioned do indeed know way more about it than 99% of the posters here, including you. It's their motivation to please a customer that bothers me.

I have a stock kimber mountain ascent in 280AI. It's meets and exceeds sub moa. Really wish I would have bought another kimber instead of the LAW that is currently sitting 2000 miles away in PA.

Show me where I EVER took a 'shot' at a kid? You're reading comprehension rivals that of rock.


Sweet Jesus you are one stupid Mofo

More funny stuff. Wondering why others care what someone uses to load cases, then jumping in with both feet on the 222 Rem thread getting into others for using it to deer hunt. Of course all of this is based upon your vast experience.

The ASTUTE saw this coming from the get go...but the fhuqking Texans are still stumped. I can only lead the STUPID Fhuqkers to water and very much enjoy it,when they don't drink.

Never been tough to cypher who shoots and who don't.

The GLARING Obvious

Hint.

Laffin'!

You're not worth the time or effort to search for it. Tom264 remembers it well I bet, as it was his kid you took a shot at. Pretty pathetic, but par for your course.

Mine was an early model with a problem barrel that Kimber didn't seem as excited about as I was. I could see a constriction with the Hawkeye and feel it with a tight rod, around 2" from the muzzle.

A 23" SS light contour Broughton 5C sure cured that...

DF

Greetings All,

I have been away from the forums for a bit but want to let you know that in May I began some new career adventures and am no longer working for or associated with LAW. I have had a few PMs and have directed them to the LAW Website. I’m sure that my former colleagues at LAW will get things worked out with a bit of time. Mark is a superb gunsmith with a proven record and I wish them the best of luck in their endeavors.

Thanks
Paul

I hate to laugh but holy [bleep] this is hilarious
Unless you bought one of LAW's tomato stakes .condolences to those that didn't drink

Bansner will be jumping ship next.

Anybody seen the ads for NEW Legendary Arms Works?

Haven't seen the ads... what makes you think Mark is leaving?

Still waiting for my rifle to be shipped back to me. Bob assures me that they have gone through the frifle with a fine toothed comb and will be over - nite shipping it back to us on Monday. Communication has not been good. I continually have to call for updates after being assured they would provide them regularly. This will be the last trip this rifle makes to PA. If it still doesn't shoot it will become a donor action, stock, and trigger for a new project. Unfortunate. The Mrs had big plans for this rig this season.

Don't know anything of the sort. There are no ads (that I'm aware of). It was just a remark based on the post above announcing the departure of Mr. Reed, which may or may not be related to the problems described here. Bansner has a great reputation and this is probably driving him nuts. Looks like another example of the difficulty of carrying the quality and detail of a custom product over into a semi-custom or production environment. I wish them well, but someone had better get a handle on this soon or they're done before they really get started.

Great idea, poor execution

Yep, a small custom operation being turned into production operation is a big step.

Unfortunately, most start ups fail. I know this isn't a from scratch start up, but that leap from custom to production is essentially a start up from a business model.

I wish them luck.

DF

I wish them more than luck... I picked up a 28 Nosler and I'm tickled with it... still working on loads but getting better than 1 moa at 200 with what I'm trying. I trust they'll work through the learning curve and hope they stick around and deliver on the promise so the next time I get the itch they are an option. near custom quality for that price point ain't bad. Like my coopers but like the LAW balance, weight and slick action a bunch.

Welcome to the Fire.

DF

Just got my 280AI Professional back from its second trip to the factory. No change in performance. No consistency whatsoever. Beyond frustrating... not to mention expensive. Some groups exceeding 6 moa @ 100. Not even sure what to do with this thing at this point. It is obvious that they are not serious about addressing product defects.

WOW! Unreal...

OdinofWyoming,



Small claims court?

Scope/mount issues?

Negative on the scope issues. That's what I thought it had to be at first too... I mean, it can't be the $1600 rifle right? Wrong! This rifle has had the mounts checked and rechecked, several sets of rings, and 2 different Vortex Viper HS scopes on top of it. Some major issues going on here. Really sucks as this was to be the wife's hunting rig this year (including a wyoming bison tag). This experience has been a complete disappointment. Luckily the Tikka we bought her for a quick replacement shoots lights out.

Odin,

Don't know if you saw this:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10524122/Range_report,_LAW_Professional#Post10524122

Even if you don't want to attempt repair yourself, I would be curious as to whether you have the same issue.

David

I just joined after coming here to read up on these rifles. I'll usually take a flyer on a new rifle at the $1500 price but think now I'll buy another Cooper and sit this one out. A few of us that hunt a lot on Snipershide were all set to jump on these as the dealers, most who are pretty reliable here in Colorado, were pretty high on these. Glad I found the site, can't believe I didn't know about this forum.
Thanks,

Unbelievable. The same failing business model that keeps rearing its head. I'd think someone planning a startup would do some research and speak to some other folks that couldn't make it work to find out where the sticking places are so that there is a procedure in place when Murphy rears his head. Not yet. Just like Melvin, I'm sure Mark knows how to make a rifle. Neither obviously have much business savvy. Nothing wrong with that. It seems that the businessmen and their models are the ones doing the failing here.

It was pretty obvious that LAW had already determined they knew everything they needed to know.



Travis

They do, and they all think it is a consumer issue.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10524122

I found out, by knocking off the duplicate part of the link, it will light up for click activation.

DF

Could be I skimmed the thread too fast but it seems like the issues reported were all 280ai... Did I get that right? Been a while but did Brian C get his back and sorted out?

If you buy cheap you get cheap.

I received my 280AI last wk. they got it shooting to 1" depending on the load. They had to bed it. When I talked with them 2wks ago. Both Dave and JD said they bedded the action. When I got it. I took the rifle apart to see the bed job, expecting a Profesional bed job of the complete action through the lug. All was bedded was the front aluminum block nothing else.

They supplied me with hand load info with groups they shot, shooting 3/4" to .550" When I shot those loads it still shot 1.1" to 1.5" at 100 yards. I brought the rifle home and looked at how the stock to action, bottom metal and trigger fit to the stock. After close examination. I saw the trigger was bound against the stock aswell the bottom metal was aswell still. So after some stock relief. They really should have seen that and fixed it.So I retorched the action screws to 55"lbs in the front and 50"lbs to the rear after grinding out the stock. Took the rifle to the range again and the rifle now shoots 1/2-3/4 consistently with the loads that they supplied me with. I have really noticed you have to have great and very consistant form while shooting a LAW rifle.

So I bought the August 12 and was still working on it through yesterday Oct 10. Now this is just my opinion here. I have had more frustration and time along with good money on this Rifle and company then I have ever had with a production rifle. I have had many Savage, Tikka, and Remington's in my day. And yes plastic stocks often need replaced with a aftermarket and the trigger needs some tuning. But that is for a $350-$600 rifle. When spending $1700 on a rifle and you still end up spending close to another $775 on it and 2 months of the company and your self trying to fix the rifle.

Now this is only my experience here and my opinion. I do think that at LAW and Mark Bansner want to do well. But I have the impression that there are lots of management, and very little workers and that there is very poor communication and follow through.I was told and promised a lot of things. At the end of it, about 20% was delivered.

As for myself. NEVER AGAIN

Brian,

I'm glad you got it sorted! Hopefully you can put your experience out of your mind and enjoy your hunts this year.

David

Good news. Legendary Arms Works agreed to give me a full refund of my money today. Glad to have my money back, but would much rather had that rifle in a copy that shot well. Such a nice rifle in the hand and a company I really wanted to support (veteran owned). Maybe some other day after they've worked out all of the kinks.

To all of you that offered comment, thanks for all of the help.

Now what to buy to replace it?

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10562562/1

First post...
Thanks for the info on LAW. I bought a Pro a few day's ago...took it back today! #16$...300 Win...

Secondly, Holy crap!

Noticed the same thing.... Light heavy recoiling rifles drive me nuts... Dwight Van Brunt had a pretty good article in last month American Rifleman on shooting light rifles... Only way I can get a light rifle to shoot consistently is to rest my left hand lightly on th scope bell

But glad you have a solid shooter now... Please share load data on the tighter loads when you get a minute

Whyd you take it back? Details man!

I bought it after reading the fluff pieces from the gun writers...
I really liked the fit and feel (fierce felt good too)
I'm a light/mid weight fan, and the rifle really seemed to fit the bill at the price.
Then I started really digging into the real life reviews. Too many issues, I also rate a company by seeing if they answer the phone...
other forums have dropped the threads with the negativity..
Boddington has them as a sponsor (Fluff)
kimber has too many issues for my money as well.

I would rather spend more money on a proven product than have issues..

catnipper did you ever shoot it?

Too funny...

nope....

OK. Just wondering.

Thanks.

Can you return a gun after it has been shot? If you can't from the dealer catnipper bought it from, I'd be inclined to do the same thing he did.

I wouldn't. Cant know a thing until you shoot it.

I know some shops that won't take a return after it's been fired. Once fired, it becomes an issue between you and the manufacturer.

So I won't cast stones because he dumped it back on the dealer before he shot it.

Especially if it was in the 2 calibers that seem to be having all the trouble.

I held one locally and did like the fit and feel.

For me, these are competing against cooper and cooper has fallen short in the lightweight area still. But, cooper is a sure thing accuracy wise.

Not many big rigs carry as well as that bansner stock though.

Get it together LAW.

A Cooper 54 Excalibur can easily stay at 7lbs all up..

Cooper supposedly coming out with a lightweight 52 next year, supposed to be around 6 pounds.

I wish they'd put a decent stock on the current Excalibur offering and they'd really have something.

I hear you. I've been wanting that sweet little cooper to be something it is not for a long time. It's not a long action or a short mag or a long mag. And that's just not enough juice for my situation.

Did any one ever get their issues resolved with the LAW Professional? My wife bought me one back in August and I just finally started shooting it and just like a lot of guys its not performing. Mine is a 300 Win Mag, Serial LAW-017X. At first the gun looked and felt great but once I started shooting accuracy was quite poor and its developed two other issues. The bolt has begun hanging up on the rear of the receiver and takes some force to get it past the snag point. This isn't heavy bolt lift from excessive pressure, its actually the bolt rubbing on the receiver just in front of the bolt shroud. This wasn't the case until after putting some rounds through it so something flexed/bent. Also with whatever is happening I can no longer get more than one round in the mag without the follower canting and binding up. Anyone who got somewhere on this please let me know.

-Joel

I purchased a professional in 280 AI I Oct. After 2 boxes of factory ammo with less than moa results. It went back to the factory the first part of Nov. I called LAW in late Dec to follow up and was told that the bedding blocks had been honed out, the firing pin replaced, and the action bedded (iirc, that was everything). It was in line for a new crown to be cut then. Last week, my dealer got word that it was waiting to be test fired and would ship back to us in a week or two. I plan to post results after the first chance I have to shoot it.

So 2+ months turn around? That sucks! I tore the gun down after the last post. The mag issue was due to the mag spring steel sliding from recoil I guess which I got slid back in place and am going to throw a dab of epoxy on to keep it from sliding again. The mag follower was pressing into the box causing upward pressure on the bolt which was causing the rear of the bolt to press down on the receiver, so the bolt issue hanging has been remedied. There are multiple points where the action isn't in proper contact with the bedding blocks and a few points on the barrel has paint transferred to it from the stock, so the barrel isn't properly floated or the action in equal contact with the stock. Decided to take care of it myself, sand paper and bedding compound project for this evening. I'll take pictures and post results from the range when I'm done if anyone is interested but will be following a similar method to what hicountry did so probably not much reason to other than whether it solves the accuracy issue which I believe it will as most groups would have two touching and a third flyer and then complete shift in POI. This wasn't temperature induced either as I was using a IR thermometer to ensure I kept the barrel cool and consistent from shot to shot.

-Joel

A goat phuuck as was called by many here
Hope you guys fix your"rifles"

Joel,
Post your results. I'm interested,,,
I'd like to have a LAW but it's looking like the idea of it was better than the doing.
I have a deposit with my LGS for one but.....

Just got mine back yesterday. They had it for 3 months bedded, replaced fp spring, re-crowned. Sent it back with test target and hand load info for 162 gr hornady amax and 140 gr nosler bt.

Paul,

What did the test targets they sent you show? Have you got to the range to test it yourself? Part of the reason I'm so distraught with all this is Trop Gun is my home town gun shop and I have wanted one of these since spring 2014 when one of the guys I know who is working for them told me about them acquiring the rights for the 704 action. I was going to have them build me a 338 lapua but was told they wouldn't be doing full custom stuff for a while. Got Robert Snyder, rwsgunsmithing to build it and am very happy that I had him do it, great guy to work with and he had it done fast. I'd walk it into there shop in Adamstown but I don't get back to PA all that often these days and don't feel like shipping it and waiting or trying to call in a favor and get them to push it up in front of guys who have already been waiting months. I'm about to get going on it now so I'll take some pictures to show the problem areas and when I get to the range I'll get pics up of how it shoots if it has been remedied. Never took pictures of the groups before as they weren't anything worth photographing other than to complain about, visualize 2 rounds within a half inch with a third 2-3 inches away and then the next 3 shots moving way off 4-6", and exactly where the first group would form wasn't consistent, somewhere within 3 inches of POA at 100 yards. With all the hype like a lot of guys I was hoping for a light weight Cooper, the accuracy of this compared to my Cooper Phoenix 243 is terrible. I haven't given up hope as I think the gun has potential with a little TLC to be the gun I hoped for.

-Joel

Having had numerous ' problem ' rifles since the 1960s I can understand a guy feels when his rifle malfunctions regardless of how much it costs.
At one time it seemed like living here in Canada meant ' Too bad, So sad " when it came to any sort of warranty regardless of make.

With that in mind I was very skeptical when I bought my LAW because of all the rightfully negative comments, and also having just parted with a ' headache ' rifle.
But, stubborn me, I went ahead and bought an LAW Professional in 28 Nosler.
And now after nearly a hundred rounds downrange I could not be happier, function is flawless, the 28 is a bit fussy about bullet weight ( I think ), but like the rest of you I guess time will tell.
And I seriously hope that all of your rifle issues will be addressed...

Joel, I have not gone to the range with it as it was just delivered Saturday evening. I actually listed it for sale in the classifieds as I am not set up to load for the 280 ai. I'm assuming it did not shoot the nosler factory ammo or they would have sent targets with it. Of course you know what they say about assumptions. The 162 amax target I would say is just under an inch and the 140 nosler bt is about 0.5 both with H 4831. My targets were just as you described before I sent it back in October. Communication was poor during the process and the three month wait right when I needed the rifle the most has me disinterested in It now.

Howdy,
In full disclosure, I am a dealer and have sold just under a dozen LAW rifles. The first few had problems and the company was overwhelmed.
As a dealer, I felt my job was to stay on top of the returned rifles and none took longer than 4 weeks to be sent back, from leaving my door to returning. The 26 Nosler did not shoot well, but the .280AI and the .300 Win and the 28 Nosler all shot sub moa.

In my opinion, Mark was not prepared for the difficulties and demands on his staff when going from 5K to sub 2K rifles with the expectations that performance would be similar. They lost a few people and some are still under par. Their new guy, Steve, is stepping up and solving problems, best of all, he is returning calls when he says he will and doing what he says he will. A few others have a problem with that.

The bedding is fixing the problems and the last rifle I shot produced a 5/8" group. The LAW remains a great action, in an excellent stock with a functional barrel. As a company, they have disappointed me and I have had some sharp conversations with them. I feel they are on the right track and will keep producing rifles, having learned some hard lessons.

Adios,

Got the rifle all taped up, applied releasing material, gooped up and dropped the action in last night. Similar to what Hicountry did I elected to do just the front area of the action through to the chamber area as I have done other rifles this way and haven't ever seen a need to do the rest because this seems to do the trick. Popped it out this afternoon and everything looks great. Since it was apart I tweaked the trigger a bit and it feels much lighter and crisp. Reassembled the rifle and plan on heading to the range tomorrow to see what I got. If it did the trick I'll get some pictures up of the problem areas, how I dealt with them and how it shoots. I actually found an old target that may be hard to make sense of but should be a decent comparison (I wrote all over it with different colored sharpie in an attempt to triangulate the groups during an load development after barrel break-in).

Well I got to the range today. Things have improved but the third plus shots start walking high and to the right as the barrel warms. I put three through as fast as I could and the first two touched with the third being about 1.25" higher. I adjusted the scope and let it cool to ambient temp which was 52 degrees today. Then ran five through as fast as I could, first two touching and then the next few started walking. I measured the barrel temp with my IR thermometer after the five and it was right at 130 degrees which is a pretty big swing and explains the walking in my mind. I then let it cool back to ambient and fired one and let it cool for three rounds allowing it to cool between every round and they printed right at a half inch. This was with Box ammo, not handloads and I know the powder isn't temp stable so the walking could in part be from the powder burning faster in the barrel as it warms up, can't verify this as I wasn't using the magnetospeed today but if velocity was going up from the temp that explains the rise. We will see what handloads do for it. All in all I'm now satisfied. None of us should have to do this with these rifles ourselves and they should be there out of the box but it was a easy fix. Having the third round be right there with the others would be nice but this is a hunting rifle and the first two shots are all that really matter for hunting, don't know many guys who have got a game animal on there third shot after missing there first two. My advice is if your having issues relieve the stock and bed it yourself or if your not comfortable doing it yourself get a buddy or local gunsmith who is and get it done and back to you fast. It took me less than an hour aside from the wait time for everything to set up. All targets were shot at 100 yards on a bench with a bipod and rear bag, targets were 1" stickies on computer paper.

-Joel

Wanted to get these photos up of the areas I found to be causing the issues with my LAW 300 Win Mag. I'll get info up whenever I get back to the range with handloads to see if I can improve upon the groups I previously posted and whether the third round flyer is being caused by a velocity spike that may be temperature induced. I'll be using one of Hodgdon's extreme powders so hopefully it will eliminate that.

-Joel

Just adding the last image of the bolt where it was dragging. Sandpaper to relieve the stock, bedding the action and adjusting the mag spring resolved all the issues.

-Joel

If you don't mind my asking, what did you pay for the rifle?



P

Pharmseller ,

My wife bought this rifle for me as a birthday gift. They typically sell for somewhere in the $1500-1750 range, msrp I believe is $1850.

-Joel

I have officially lost both my patience and interest with this rifle and company. 3 weeks ago, my dealer was told my rifle would ship in a week or two. I followed up on week three. I left two messages on voicemail that said I would get a return call within 24 hours. After not getting called back 7 days from the first message, I called a third time and someone finally picked up the phone. Now, I'm told that they don't have any "good" factory ammo, so its in line for handload workup by Mark with no clue as to how long this may take. They have had this rifle for nearly three months and can't figure it out.

This is completely unacceptable in my opinion and my dealer agrees. Why these guys didn't just ship replacement rifles out that met their guarantee immediately is beyond me.

I'm done.

I was in a LGS yesterday, and the subject of LAW came up. In short, they have had such horrible luck with the first 7 or 8 LAW rifles they sold, they wound up sending them all back, trying to get them fixed, sent back again, etc etc etc, they cut ties with the business and won't carry them anymore. They basically said "as schittty as the rifles are, the company is even worse to deal with. Customer service is by far the worst we've ever dealt with from any manufacturer."

It's almost like they don't want to succeed.

All of this, and I now see on their website that they are charging a premium for the 280 improved chamber.

I want to start by saying it really sucks to hear that this is the kind of experience that guys are having with LAW and I'm not writing this to rub it in anyone's face, just writing a follow up like I said I would after I got back to the range. I appreciate that you all shared your experience because I was ready to send mine back too but after hearing about the long turn around and lack of results when guys finally got them back I decided to address the issues myself. I bedded the action and relieved the barrel channel and tweaked the mag spring which fixed the other issues. That being said I made it to the range today and shot a OCW test using Berger 210 Hunting VLD's seated .005" off the lands and retumbo from 75.5 gr. to 79.5 gr. in .5 gr. increments. Retumbo wasn't my first choice as its a bit slow but I have a ton of it that I bought for my 338 Lapua but the Lapua took a liking to Reloader 33 so I figured I'd give it a go in the LAW 300 win mag. I wasn't using the magnetospeed as I didn't want to make a decision based on velocity which I've done in the past, I wanted to develop a true OCW load and figure out velocity for it later. I ended up with a nice node from 77.5-79.0 grains where groups were all right at 1/2" inch and there was only a 3/8" vertical between the 4 charges with the 77.5 and 78 having nearly zero vertical dispersion to group centers and 78.5 and 79 also having nearly zero vertical dispersion. These were shot round robin as a OCW test should be to avoid favoring a load due to the amount of barrel fouling being higher or lower from one charge to the next. I'm going to be loading up some more of these four charges and head back to the range as soon as I get the opportunity to see which I'll be going with as long as I have similar results and I'll be using the chrono next go. I'm also hoping things may tighten up group wise as not having to put 27 rounds through the rifle it won't be nearly as fouled for the last round which is where the groups opened up to the 1/2" range.

On the reloading side:
My finished cartidges are about .250" longer than SAAMI spec so I'm increasing usable case capacity by a noticeable amount. There were no pressure signs on the cases with the 79.5 gr. charges so if I do see the velocity is much lower than I'm looking for I won't hesitate to go up, as Quickload and the Berger manual give pretty similar velocities with SAAMI numbers and comparable charges. When I adjust Quickload for my seat depth then the velocity and pressure drops (obviously) from the increase in usable case capacity. When I shoot with the chrono if the velocity isn't in the ballpark of what I'm seeing on Quickload I will be ordering more strain gauges so I can set up the 300 win mag on my Pressure Trace unit so I can get a better idea what is going on pressure wise.

-Joel

Decided on a load for the LAW 300 win mag. Retumbo wasn't giving me the type of velocity I was looking for, just couldn't cram enough powder in there. Switched powders and came up with a load that gave an average of 2798 fps with a SD of 8 and put 5 into a half inch at 100 yards and charges a half grain above and below also grouped well and landed at the same point as compared to point of aim. The max load I tried showed no signs of pressure and Quickload gives a predicted velocity of 2812 fps with my seat depth, measured case capacity and charge (gives me a warm fuzzy when real life velocity is close to predicted) and it is well below max pressure so I will be working up higher to see if there is another accuracy node at a higher velocity as this gun won't be getting shot a lot except around hunting season if I decided to take her out and I'm not too worried about giving a little barrel life up for the extra velocity and range.

-Joel

I live in the Reinholds,Pa area where the Law rifles where being built,I stopped in at Law to Mark who has been a long time friend,To my surprise there where guys cleaning out the facility ,I ask for Mark and a guy told me Legendary is moving to Harrisburg , Pa and Mark is no longer with Law, I spoke with the machine shop who made the actions and as of April 15 2017
Law is no longer as there are some financial differences!!!!!!!

I have a Professional in 280 AI, it shoots pretty good with Nosler Trophy Grade 160 Partitions. For some reason I can't screw the brake off!

So glad I didn't buy one.

I had to use a small shaft but long screwdriver to get the brake off the first time.

boliep--thanks, I didn't want to bugger the holes on the brake, I'm good at that kind of stuff!

What problem did anyone have with the action ???????????
email me direct at [email protected], cell 610-603-6760
whether pro or con Please Jack

As a representative of LAW Holdings, parent company of Legendary Arms Works, I readily deny Jack Lyons’s claims regarding the state of Legendary Arms Works. LAW has not ceased producing rifles and continues selling them through Cabela’s, Sportsman’s Warehouse and over 140 dealers nationwide. LAW is in the process of moving to an improved facility in Harrisburg, PA and enhancing its production capability, to include improved material procurement and supply chain management.

Legendary Arms Works continues to produce the rifle actions Jack Lyons is attempting to assemble and sell. Should you choose to purchase actions through Jack Lyons you will be purchasing counterfeit merchandise produced without the consent of LAW Holdings and Legendary Arms Works. We encourage you against doing so. If you have earnest interest in owning a true Legendary Arms Works or 704 action, please go to www.legendaryarmsworks.com.

I am glad that you are still in operation. My cousin bought one of your rifles in 280 and has been very happy with it.

Is the rumor that Mark Bansner left your company true, or not?

Ha what a schit show

Can't wait to see Winchester Jack's response.

I bought a LAW Bobcat a month ago and was disappointed to see it come through with a 12.5 LOP. I called LAW about it and was told that I was the first per person to point out that the website states a 13.5 LOP for the Bobcat.

I was asked for my phone number so that Mark Bansner could call me back. That was more than two weeks ago and I never heard from him.

I would like to hear a public answer from "LAW Holdings" on this issue.

donsm70

Sorry to hear that, Don.

Don't hold your breath...

Even a reportedly good guy like Mark, given enough misery, enough stress, can go underground into avoidant mode. I'm sure he's not happy about it, but his hands may be tied. We just don't know all the details.

DF

Love my Law too.

Well, I got my answer today. Mark Bansner called me back and apologized for the delay. He offered to find me a 13.5 LOP stock for the Bobcat and then I told him that I had already sold the rifle.

I then went on to tell him that I found ANIB Professional in 6.5 Creedmore and we ended up talking for nearly an hour. He was very helpful.

Legendary Arms Works is moving its operation to Harrisburg, but Mark is no longer part of that group. He did say that he will continue to support the Professional line for some period of time.

I enjoyed our conversation and feel much better about my new purchase after having talked to him.

donsm70

Great to hear.

Thanks for sharing.

DF

Don - great news. And I can't say I'm surprised - Mark Bansner is good people.

This is my LAW experience take it for what its worth!!!!

Be careful what you wish for 300 win mag:

About two years ago, I decided I needed a 300 win mag to be cool like the rest of the guys. Traditionally, I always hunted with a Weatherby Vanguard 30.06 rifle. I wanted to hunt wide open spaces and make far kill shots like the guys on TV. I needed a 300 Win Mag it was gonna be my dream rifle. I mostly hunt the Ozark Woods of Central Missouri with no need for such a large caliber rifle.

So I purchased the best Sako 300 Win Mag Gray Wolf rifle and mounted a $1500 Leupold VX-6 scope on it. It shot like a dream (sub MOA all day) but would not eject a shell casing to save its life. The fired casing would hit the bottom of the scope and sent it directly back into the action, which of course jammed the action. I had at best a one shot wonder of a rifle. I shot a running Kansas buck at 375 yards and he kept trucking. I needed a follow up shot, which of course was not going to happen because with gloves on, I couldn’t unjam the rifle. I ended up losing the buck on the neighbor’s property, but they kindly let me track it and recover it. After that I decided a fix was in order, I mean if I was gonna hunt Moose, Elk, and Bear a follow up shot might be in order. I tried working with the manufacturer and they would do nothing to resolve the issue. (google it they know about the ejection problem but they will not fix it) They said sell the scope and buy a smaller one. This was not an option as used scopes just don’t bring any money. SO after reloading a hundred shells and taking my time seasoning the barrel and loving the rifle, I sold it for a loss. I explain to the guy that bought it. You can’t use a 30 mm tube scope on it. It won’t eject. He didn’t care he had a Sako. I was never found of the silver barrel and pretty wood anyways.

I thought you need a real expensive Weatherby Mark V to show off at deer camp. But then, I had a deal coming on a new rife that was the cat’s meow. So after that, I came upon a sweet deal on a Legendary Arms Works 300 Win Mag (The Professional), never fired. New in box. It was priced at what was a steal. About 60% of what they retail for in the store if you can find them. I bought it from one of their factory reps. I had learned my lesson, buy American. It was listed as one of the best rifles in Field n Stream magazine. Editor’s choice from several others. A cerekoted dream of a boom stick. It was love at first sight. I mounted my scope VX-6 scope on it and relished it. I had finally found a good rifle.

So next was the range. I shot it. It was all over the place. I tried 3 different brands of shells. Sub MOA my - more like 3 or 4 MOA at a hundred yards. I had never shot a gun that grouped so poorly. I had a friend who shot competitive bench rest matches shoot it. His best 3 MOA. So, I contacted the company. They said “we want to see that rifle”. They over-nighted it back to the factory. I then contacted them two weeks later and they said, your rifle is in line to be worked on by our best gunsmith, it will take a month. So five weeks later, they call me to tell me that they shot my gun and it sucked. They want to rework the whole gun the barrel is substandard. So a New barrel, sand blast, re-cerekote, range test and ship a less than MOA rifle back to me. Better than new. A reworked rifle by “custom gunsmiths” at no cost to me. Sweet deal right there. Finally someone who will stand behind their product. Made in the USA.

So a few more weeks go by. I hear nothing, I call and they say your rifle is all built. We are gonna range test it, clean it and send it back to you immediately. I say to myself be patient your gun will shoot one ragged hole. So I wait about a month and no gun. I have tried to call them atleast 20 times but their voice mail boxes are all full. So you can’t leave them a message. No real person will answer the phone. No updates. No rifle. I am at my wits end with this company. No rifle for deer season. It doesn’t take 3 plus months to work on a gun. No email addy no nothing. Do I contact the BBB with a complaint? Do I send a certified letter, for all I know they closed up shop and skipped town.

I reached into the safe, and dusted off my old trusty Weatherby Vanguard 30.06. It shoots Sub MOA. Another gun season in the books. No 300 Win Mag. I guess I should have coughed up the dough and bought a Weatherby Mark V like I wanted too. It’s my fault. I tried to save a few bucks and be cool. Most of all buy American made. Maybe by x-mas I will have my gun back if the folks at Legendary Arms Works aren’t out of business.

Two weeks went by I sent emails, I called no answer. I finally just started pressing buttons and ended up in accountants payable who actually answered. I was transferred to a new "CEO" who said they would check on my gun personally. I was told the persons that I had been dealing with no longer worked there and there was a problem with the phones. The CEO called me back in 45 min and told me my gun was still sitting on a self not having had the new barrel put on yet. I was floored I mean a few weeks before I was told it was all done just needing a range test. I was assured my gun would be a top priority and fixed right ASAP.

Part 2:

I received my gun back on November 21st. It was at Legendary Arms works for over four months.

I called the CEO a week prior to receiving it for an update on its status as in an earlier conversation I was told if I didnt hear anything in a week or so to call back. I was told someone had reportedly notified me the week before on its status by the CEO, but no one did. Then I was later told they left me a voicemail, no voicemail was ever received. I never pressed the issue about not receiving a call or voicemail.

I was then told my gun was fixed and it was going to be fed ex'd back to me in a few days. I was told I would receive a call with shipping information. Never received a call. My Fed Ex app let me know that my gun was on the way back to me. I was able to sign for it and receive it with no problems due to the Fed Ex app.

SO one thing I can say is they still have a customer service problem.

Now onto the rifle. It came back to me with a slightly heavier barrel as far as I could tell a few ounces maybe. It was in flawless condition. Included with the rifle were some targets that were shot by "Mark Bansner". Several different kinds of factory ammo (4 different ammo brands total from 168 grain to 180 grain) were tried. I could see by the targets that the more the rifle was fired the tighter the groups were getting. On the last target there was a sub MOA group (measured .775) with Barnes bullets. There was a note written on the target that said "Shot # 19, 20 , 21 another 10 to 20 and it will be broke in" Signed "Mark Bansner" the gunsmith who started Legendary Arms Works.

So I took the rifle and mounted my Leupold VX-6 30mm Scope back on it. I made sure it was tightened to specs and level. I used talley one piece low rings. I went to the range the next day. I took a blue box of federal 180 grain "cheaper" 300 win mag, a box of Vortex with Barnes Bullets 168 grain, and a Box of Hornady 200 Grain ELD precison hunter.

I fired the rifle using three shot rapid fire groups allowing the rifle to cool at least ten minutes in between groups. The results were impressive to say the least. The rifle with its 704 action ejected the spent casing flawlessly. Never hitting the scope. It shot all three types of bullets under an inch MOA. The best was Hornady 200 grain ELD with a group of .625 with three other groups under .700

I have not seen that kind of grouping from factory ammo in a 300 win mag in a long time. With handloads that LAW rifle should group atleast in the .5 range I would guess. My Sako grouped .785 at its best group with handloads. It was about .850 average with factory ammo.

I have tried to be fair in my review. The customer service absolutely sucks. The rifle however is well in my opinion Legendary.

I look forward to the 2017 hunting season to try it out. As for this year, I tagged out with my old 30.06 that I had tossed in the gunsafe and forsaken once I got bit by the 300 win mag bug.

I'm glad your rifle came back to you and it appears it is better than you may have expected. Congrats.

I've just never been in full custom buying mode, but I do like the Bansner stocks! I recently took one to a local smith and had $180.00 of mill work done to get it inletted for my M70. This is an expense you'll need to figure into your overall price when ordering their stocks, as they need a lot of fitting and finish work. But, I think they are worth it.

I am sure they did not put HART, BROUGHTON Barrels on these guns , I have built many 1000 yard guns for Pa club , bedding is important, althought at that time we used mauser ,enfield, ect, as there where no custom actions , But if used a cheap barrel you are might get lucky to find one that will shoot, Don't waste money on cheap barrels!!!!!!!!!! the barrel is 96% of a gun that will shoot , There are no cheap barrels on the firing line

Jack, you were their Contract Manufacturer in Reinholds PA. I imagine you would know who supplied their barrels. Not going to step into the fight between you and LAW on Manufacturing rights on the actions but "leading the witness" seems like poor form. Maybe you have a non-disclosure so it's the best you can do to push direct to consumer action sales. It just seems a bit off to portray yourself as a unbiased person questioning their Manufacturing. I admit the action is intriguing and I saw your sale ads in another forum. Full disclosure if possible is best. It would be great if you spin off with Mark into a different entity but I am sure contracts prevent it.

http://tltechnologiesinc.com/tl-technologies-capabilities/case-studies/

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/classic-hunter-actions.3929369/

.

Curious if anyone has handled one of these.

Saw one reference to the action needing truing on a LAW rifle but to his credit Jack was asking questions about the action. He seems to really care about the perception and feedback. It was used on Ed Brown rifles but not sure if EB did anything after receiving them. For the price even if it needs truing it may be a good deal.

I have a LAW rifle and like the action. Which, like you said, makes this seem like a good deal if it's like it.

I bought a LAW rifle in 6.5 CM. I talked to Mark for the best part of an hour. It is my "go to" rifle for tree stand hunting in western PA. It is very accurate and dependable.

I really like the 704 action.

It is a keeper for me.

donsm70

looks like they are also making stocks for howas....

https://www.legacysports.com/catalog/howa/howa-alpine-mountain-rifle/

?????????

That’s not news. Mark was stocking Howa barreled actions beforre LAW emerged. I do wonder if there are anymore alpines or if they’ve all been made at this point.

I did call last week- before I noticed this thread to find out about getting a few Remington 700 stocks. Left a voicemail and that’s that. Never heard back. My hope above all else is that the stocks remain in or return to production and with the same quality that they have historically had.

Sent them an email a few weeks back inquiring about stock availability, no response yet.

I picked up a Professional on here, a scope I purchased didn’t work with the Talley’s I bought. I have some more coming so once I get my 3-10 mounted on my 30-06 I’ll update y’all on accuracy.
I reload and have a pet load from another LW rig I had, but this range trip will be factory loads only.

Any new news on the status of production, etc...

They have likely now lived up to their bravado and passed into "legendary" status... ie, a memory.

Alright fellas, after much time has past I finally had the chance to take her out yesterday. I reload, but as of late have been too busy to press a few rounds. That being said I took 8-9 different factory loads to the range to test accuracy. First off it liked the 180’s, I tried several different 165’s, 168, 178 and 180’s. Most were 1-1/2 to 2” groups. The best group funny enough was with Remington 180 Cor-Lokts where I achieved a .75” group.

Rifle handles very well, but I’ll be getting the bolt polished as it’s a bit grainy when cycling round after round. Granted over time it might work itself out.

I’m certain once I roll my own this rifle should be a 1/2” shooter.