Joel, Post your results. I'm interested,,, I'd like to have a LAW but it's looking like the idea of it was better than the doing. I have a deposit with my LGS for one but.....
Just got mine back yesterday. They had it for 3 months bedded, replaced fp spring, re-crowned. Sent it back with test target and hand load info for 162 gr hornady amax and 140 gr nosler bt.
What did the test targets they sent you show? Have you got to the range to test it yourself? Part of the reason I'm so distraught with all this is Trop Gun is my home town gun shop and I have wanted one of these since spring 2014 when one of the guys I know who is working for them told me about them acquiring the rights for the 704 action. I was going to have them build me a 338 lapua but was told they wouldn't be doing full custom stuff for a while. Got Robert Snyder, rwsgunsmithing to build it and am very happy that I had him do it, great guy to work with and he had it done fast. I'd walk it into there shop in Adamstown but I don't get back to PA all that often these days and don't feel like shipping it and waiting or trying to call in a favor and get them to push it up in front of guys who have already been waiting months. I'm about to get going on it now so I'll take some pictures to show the problem areas and when I get to the range I'll get pics up of how it shoots if it has been remedied. Never took pictures of the groups before as they weren't anything worth photographing other than to complain about, visualize 2 rounds within a half inch with a third 2-3 inches away and then the next 3 shots moving way off 4-6", and exactly where the first group would form wasn't consistent, somewhere within 3 inches of POA at 100 yards. With all the hype like a lot of guys I was hoping for a light weight Cooper, the accuracy of this compared to my Cooper Phoenix 243 is terrible. I haven't given up hope as I think the gun has potential with a little TLC to be the gun I hoped for.
Having had numerous ' problem ' rifles since the 1960s I can understand a guy feels when his rifle malfunctions regardless of how much it costs. At one time it seemed like living here in Canada meant ' Too bad, So sad " when it came to any sort of warranty regardless of make.
With that in mind I was very skeptical when I bought my LAW because of all the rightfully negative comments, and also having just parted with a ' headache ' rifle. But, stubborn me, I went ahead and bought an LAW Professional in 28 Nosler. And now after nearly a hundred rounds downrange I could not be happier, function is flawless, the 28 is a bit fussy about bullet weight ( I think ), but like the rest of you I guess time will tell. And I seriously hope that all of your rifle issues will be addressed...
Joel, I have not gone to the range with it as it was just delivered Saturday evening. I actually listed it for sale in the classifieds as I am not set up to load for the 280 ai. I'm assuming it did not shoot the nosler factory ammo or they would have sent targets with it. Of course you know what they say about assumptions. The 162 amax target I would say is just under an inch and the 140 nosler bt is about 0.5 both with H 4831. My targets were just as you described before I sent it back in October. Communication was poor during the process and the three month wait right when I needed the rifle the most has me disinterested in It now.
Howdy, In full disclosure, I am a dealer and have sold just under a dozen LAW rifles. The first few had problems and the company was overwhelmed. As a dealer, I felt my job was to stay on top of the returned rifles and none took longer than 4 weeks to be sent back, from leaving my door to returning. The 26 Nosler did not shoot well, but the .280AI and the .300 Win and the 28 Nosler all shot sub moa.
In my opinion, Mark was not prepared for the difficulties and demands on his staff when going from 5K to sub 2K rifles with the expectations that performance would be similar. They lost a few people and some are still under par. Their new guy, Steve, is stepping up and solving problems, best of all, he is returning calls when he says he will and doing what he says he will. A few others have a problem with that.
The bedding is fixing the problems and the last rifle I shot produced a 5/8" group. The LAW remains a great action, in an excellent stock with a functional barrel. As a company, they have disappointed me and I have had some sharp conversations with them. I feel they are on the right track and will keep producing rifles, having learned some hard lessons.
Got the rifle all taped up, applied releasing material, gooped up and dropped the action in last night. Similar to what Hicountry did I elected to do just the front area of the action through to the chamber area as I have done other rifles this way and haven't ever seen a need to do the rest because this seems to do the trick. Popped it out this afternoon and everything looks great. Since it was apart I tweaked the trigger a bit and it feels much lighter and crisp. Reassembled the rifle and plan on heading to the range tomorrow to see what I got. If it did the trick I'll get some pictures up of the problem areas, how I dealt with them and how it shoots. I actually found an old target that may be hard to make sense of but should be a decent comparison (I wrote all over it with different colored sharpie in an attempt to triangulate the groups during an load development after barrel break-in).
Well I got to the range today. Things have improved but the third plus shots start walking high and to the right as the barrel warms. I put three through as fast as I could and the first two touched with the third being about 1.25" higher. I adjusted the scope and let it cool to ambient temp which was 52 degrees today. Then ran five through as fast as I could, first two touching and then the next few started walking. I measured the barrel temp with my IR thermometer after the five and it was right at 130 degrees which is a pretty big swing and explains the walking in my mind. I then let it cool back to ambient and fired one and let it cool for three rounds allowing it to cool between every round and they printed right at a half inch. This was with Box ammo, not handloads and I know the powder isn't temp stable so the walking could in part be from the powder burning faster in the barrel as it warms up, can't verify this as I wasn't using the magnetospeed today but if velocity was going up from the temp that explains the rise. We will see what handloads do for it. All in all I'm now satisfied. None of us should have to do this with these rifles ourselves and they should be there out of the box but it was a easy fix. Having the third round be right there with the others would be nice but this is a hunting rifle and the first two shots are all that really matter for hunting, don't know many guys who have got a game animal on there third shot after missing there first two. My advice is if your having issues relieve the stock and bed it yourself or if your not comfortable doing it yourself get a buddy or local gunsmith who is and get it done and back to you fast. It took me less than an hour aside from the wait time for everything to set up. All targets were shot at 100 yards on a bench with a bipod and rear bag, targets were 1" stickies on computer paper.
-Joel
Last edited by JCraig8; 01/12/16. Reason: Fixing grammer
Wanted to get these photos up of the areas I found to be causing the issues with my LAW 300 Win Mag. I'll get info up whenever I get back to the range with handloads to see if I can improve upon the groups I previously posted and whether the third round flyer is being caused by a velocity spike that may be temperature induced. I'll be using one of Hodgdon's extreme powders so hopefully it will eliminate that.
Just adding the last image of the bolt where it was dragging. Sandpaper to relieve the stock, bedding the action and adjusting the mag spring resolved all the issues.
Just adding the last image of the bolt where it was dragging. Sandpaper to relieve the stock, bedding the action and adjusting the mag spring resolved all the issues.
-Joel
If you don't mind my asking, what did you pay for the rifle?
P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
I have officially lost both my patience and interest with this rifle and company. 3 weeks ago, my dealer was told my rifle would ship in a week or two. I followed up on week three. I left two messages on voicemail that said I would get a return call within 24 hours. After not getting called back 7 days from the first message, I called a third time and someone finally picked up the phone. Now, I'm told that they don't have any "good" factory ammo, so its in line for handload workup by Mark with no clue as to how long this may take. They have had this rifle for nearly three months and can't figure it out.
This is completely unacceptable in my opinion and my dealer agrees. Why these guys didn't just ship replacement rifles out that met their guarantee immediately is beyond me.
I was in a LGS yesterday, and the subject of LAW came up. In short, they have had such horrible luck with the first 7 or 8 LAW rifles they sold, they wound up sending them all back, trying to get them fixed, sent back again, etc etc etc, they cut ties with the business and won't carry them anymore. They basically said "as schittty as the rifles are, the company is even worse to deal with. Customer service is by far the worst we've ever dealt with from any manufacturer."
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
I want to start by saying it really sucks to hear that this is the kind of experience that guys are having with LAW and I'm not writing this to rub it in anyone's face, just writing a follow up like I said I would after I got back to the range. I appreciate that you all shared your experience because I was ready to send mine back too but after hearing about the long turn around and lack of results when guys finally got them back I decided to address the issues myself. I bedded the action and relieved the barrel channel and tweaked the mag spring which fixed the other issues. That being said I made it to the range today and shot a OCW test using Berger 210 Hunting VLD's seated .005" off the lands and retumbo from 75.5 gr. to 79.5 gr. in .5 gr. increments. Retumbo wasn't my first choice as its a bit slow but I have a ton of it that I bought for my 338 Lapua but the Lapua took a liking to Reloader 33 so I figured I'd give it a go in the LAW 300 win mag. I wasn't using the magnetospeed as I didn't want to make a decision based on velocity which I've done in the past, I wanted to develop a true OCW load and figure out velocity for it later. I ended up with a nice node from 77.5-79.0 grains where groups were all right at 1/2" inch and there was only a 3/8" vertical between the 4 charges with the 77.5 and 78 having nearly zero vertical dispersion to group centers and 78.5 and 79 also having nearly zero vertical dispersion. These were shot round robin as a OCW test should be to avoid favoring a load due to the amount of barrel fouling being higher or lower from one charge to the next. I'm going to be loading up some more of these four charges and head back to the range as soon as I get the opportunity to see which I'll be going with as long as I have similar results and I'll be using the chrono next go. I'm also hoping things may tighten up group wise as not having to put 27 rounds through the rifle it won't be nearly as fouled for the last round which is where the groups opened up to the 1/2" range.
On the reloading side: My finished cartidges are about .250" longer than SAAMI spec so I'm increasing usable case capacity by a noticeable amount. There were no pressure signs on the cases with the 79.5 gr. charges so if I do see the velocity is much lower than I'm looking for I won't hesitate to go up, as Quickload and the Berger manual give pretty similar velocities with SAAMI numbers and comparable charges. When I adjust Quickload for my seat depth then the velocity and pressure drops (obviously) from the increase in usable case capacity. When I shoot with the chrono if the velocity isn't in the ballpark of what I'm seeing on Quickload I will be ordering more strain gauges so I can set up the 300 win mag on my Pressure Trace unit so I can get a better idea what is going on pressure wise.
Decided on a load for the LAW 300 win mag. Retumbo wasn't giving me the type of velocity I was looking for, just couldn't cram enough powder in there. Switched powders and came up with a load that gave an average of 2798 fps with a SD of 8 and put 5 into a half inch at 100 yards and charges a half grain above and below also grouped well and landed at the same point as compared to point of aim. The max load I tried showed no signs of pressure and Quickload gives a predicted velocity of 2812 fps with my seat depth, measured case capacity and charge (gives me a warm fuzzy when real life velocity is close to predicted) and it is well below max pressure so I will be working up higher to see if there is another accuracy node at a higher velocity as this gun won't be getting shot a lot except around hunting season if I decided to take her out and I'm not too worried about giving a little barrel life up for the extra velocity and range.
I live in the Reinholds,Pa area where the Law rifles where being built,I stopped in at Law to Mark who has been a long time friend,To my surprise there where guys cleaning out the facility ,I ask for Mark and a guy told me Legendary is moving to Harrisburg , Pa and Mark is no longer with Law, I spoke with the machine shop who made the actions and as of April 15 2017 Law is no longer as there are some financial differences!!!!!!!
JACK LYONS GUNSMITHING 532 Adamstown Road Reinholds Pa 17569
