I have never been attracted to Savage rifles. The aesthetics basically left me holding my nose but I've sighted in a couple of scoped Savage rifles for friends. It always pissed me off that they shot so well with that cheap flimsy plastic stock.

I have an older friend from church who is completely new to guns. He just bought a Savage Long Range Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor with the Accustock and asked me to help him get it set up for target shooting and hunting. That Accustock impressed me in how it takes a cheap plastic shell and makes it completely serviceable. Well,I got to reading up on Savage rifles and now I'm intrigued. I've seen at least one high end custom action that also uses a floating bolt head and a barrel nut to make those two accuracy increasing steps easy to accomplish.

Just how good are the Savage Long Range Hunter rifles? I wouldn't mind owning a long range gun in 6.5X284. From just a quick study it seems like a cheap way to get started. Let's even go so far as to say a guy shot out and replaced the barrel with a premium grade barrel,and maybe even a nice McMillan stock. Is there anything in the Savage action itself that makes it just not worth spending money on,other than not having the bragging rights of a big name custom action?


Take another example of their Light Weight Hunter action that is milled down to reduce weight. Is there any reason not to put one of those in an Edge,maybe even with a premium tube? Yea,I know you would have a lot of money in a Salvage,but aside from just the name,on its merits only as a tool, would it be as good of a tool and maybe even a more accurate one because of the floating bolt head and barrel nut design?

I've noticed other people touting the floating bolt head too. I get it, the lugs can both seat. But here's a question: What guarantees that the plane of the bolt face is perpendicular to the centerline of the chamber?

I always turned my nose up too. I bought a Hog Hunter because it has a threaded barrel. It was 350.00 dollars. The first load I tried shot really well.

I have two of the M-10 FCP-SR rifles. Both shoot great also. Both are 6.5 Creedmoor. Accurate rifles for the price. Any price really!

Must be sumpin' - they seem to be consistent shooters.

I have been enjoying my lightweight hunter synthetic/stainless 6.5 cm this hunting season. It was consistent at the range sighting it in. The fluted bolt is a bit rough in the action at first. Nothing a little work on the sharp action edges couldn’t fix. Savage are just reliable and good, not expensive or great though. I don’t know if I will ever shoot out the stock barrel. It does get warm fast at the range, when shooting more than 3 shots. Mine helped me fill my tag for a California blacktail buck this season.

Salvage has came a long way.....current production LRH series are a good way for a guy to get into the LR shooting game

I've been messing around with Savage actions & custom barrels nearly 20 yrs........my first Savage..bought on a dare was a 223 around 1998

10FP Police rifle......ugly tupperware black stock...blind magazine.....3 screw factory trigger...20" matte blue heavy barrel...4.27 action spacing

man did that sucker shoot ! Older 110's were LA....even in SA cartridges....Now Savage offers something for all shooters......but still ugly to some

I use the Target action on my last 4 builds....p/dog rigs......20 Practical...20-222.....223 AI.....6.5x55 (pic) usually Pac Nor barrels......also have got

some buddies into swapping barrels......you have many options for Savage aftermarket parts & on the shelf SS match barrels now...Northland

Shooters Supply even offer machined barrel nuts & lugs..with a barrel nut wrench...action wrench & barrel vise you can easily switch tubes...the newer

smooth barrel nut need a newer wrench..or a Dremel..cut it off & replace with older knurled style nut..custom bolt handles also add a cool look too...

One thing to remember..Savage has two barrel shank sizes......small the most common.....large shank on their target action series...along with some

older 'M' series actions from the early 2000's.....pic is my 6.5x55...28" Pac Nor tube...6500 Bushy 4-30 glass....Choate stock......Target action..........

weighs 18#.......not your typical carry gun........WSM's were also large shank actions.......

http://northlandshooterssupply.com/

as a gun dealer for many years those Savage rifles shoot very well just out of the box. myself I own many savage rifles all shoot very well. matter of fact I have a new savage 6.5x284 in the weather warrior . that 6.5x284 savage I have is probably the most accurate standard out of the box hunting rifle I have ever shot ,it has a 24 inch barrel,nice clip and I will be using it in Montana Thanksgiving week .

Like a Volvo, ugly but good.

Savage is notorious for rough barrels, at least the cro-mo ones.

If you use it like a tool then you will probably be happy with it. If you are thinking you can put lipstick on a pig and make it look like Kate Upton, you will be disappointed.

I have owned several of the 10/110/16/116/112 series of rifles and I was never happy. It was always a compromise. They were good shooters except one heavy barrel 308. The old stagger feed caused me some problems while hunting. I thought I had chambered a round and it didn't pick up anything. The center feed seemed to help since I never had it had it happen with one of them. It's a safe action. If a primer blows or you over charge it, you will probably be ok. I always hated the ergonomics and lines of the damn things. They are fugly at best. They always seemed to balance wrong for me and the bolt had lots of slop. Plus there are way too many parts on the magazine, bolt release, and trigger/safety. I am not an engineer, but surely there would be a simpler way to do it. The barrels on all of mine were very rough except an old 7mm08 I had purchased. Resale is terrible. You will be lucky to get 50% back on your investment. If you like to tinker with rifles there will be plenty of aftermarket stocks, barrels, etc. In summary, it wasn't for me, but I would never look down my nose at someone who had one.

They are ugly and they are getting more expensive every time I turn around. I personally don't care for them, but have friends that love them. The best attribute to a savage is they are damn accurate rifles, but horrible in aesthetics and ergonomics...

I have been hunting for 7 years now with a Savage 10 in 308. Its the most accurate rifle i own. Every year, go to the range, shoot 3 bullets and they are damn near touching. I have the weather model with the stainless barrel and syn stock. Its light enough, handles recoil well. I would buy another (if i needed one) today. They are fantastic rifles for the money. Mine does NOT have any roughness on the barrel or anything and when standing up next to my Win M70 or my Marlin X series they all look the same to me. Savage is know for their accuracy and my rifle proves that to me.

To be explicit I was writing about roughness in the barrel.

I recently bought a LWH in .308. Have only tried one load, Nosler with 165 gr BT, about 1.25 inch groups at 100 yards

I play with them, and this is my latest project pulled from a different post. I really don't own a factory Savage rifle, I use them mainly to try cartridges that the factory isn't offering. I've pretty much replaced everything I could on this rifle, even have an aftermarket trigger waiting to be dropped in when it gets home.

IMO Savage allows the average guy to try things without huge gunsmith bills. Just purchase a couple of tools and you can swap barrels on your own and set the proper headspace. Don't get me wrong it still isn't cheap to play with a Savage, but you can do it a lot cheaper than I did.

Savage 10 action reprofiled by Steve Field
PT&G Parallel Recoil Lug .187" ground down to fit Accustock by Steve Field
SS X-Caliber #3 contour 1:7 twist 5R
Rayhill Bolt Handle & Bolt Lift Kit
Prairie Ghost camo WTP on Accustock
Tan Cerakote (Steve picked color not sure the exact one)
Barrel & Bolt fluting by Twisted Barrel











Glad I waited to go with the Cerakote color until I got the stock back. Steve talked me into waiting as the applicator he sent the stock to had never used that print before. Based off the pattern I had picked off the online sample, the Sage Green I chose for the metal would have been a serious mistake.

Don't Drink the Savage coolaid, to late your Hooked!!!!!!! ha ha ha join the Party n enjoy, my 270 wsm md 14 American Classic, looks as Beautiful as my Remy bdl delux,, funny theres no ruffness in her chrome moly bbl ,she'll stand toe to toe with any of my Customs and shoots just as Great with my proven handloads, 6.5 creedmores beware .....bou ahaw bou fricken dee du....lol Savage ROCKS

Get a Powerball ticket.

I own 3 Savage centerfires and love them. Two LWH that after rebate cost me about $450 out the FFL door and an 11 Prairie Dog Hunter that I bought for $280 from Cableas. All of them are silly accurate. I like them.

If.......you wanna bench gun.........stationary p/dog rig........no worried about weight........usually 18# when complete.....

Savage s/shot target action is where to start.....Accue trigger with lighter springs........about 10 oz.....

You'll be $2K in components w/decent glass........Pac Nor tube....

OK,serious question. What does it really matter if the barrel is rough if it shoots well? Does it just mean that I will have to clean it more often?

as mentioned.......Savage barrels are rough & will fowl much more..........

Tikka/Sako barrels are smooth compared to Savage..........

Pac Nor is a custom barrel......and others..... they would be smooth as a baby's butt....

just expect to spend more time getting copper out..its a game rifle......shoot it/clean it....

fill the freezer........

I like them for toys, easy to change barrels on, accurate. I really don't like the safety on them but they generally are well worth the money.

Rough barrels often do require cleaning more often to keep shooting well.

I suppose you could mitigate this with Dyna Bore Coat.

I bought a long range hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor. It shoots great. I also jumped on a good deal when they had the lightweight hunter model on sale with rebate. I have a .308 that, loaded with a sling and Weaver 4.75x fixed power scope, weighs under 7 pounds. It doesn't suck for carrying, and shoots great as well.

For the money, the lightweight hunter was really a good buy IMO.

Tubbs final finish on both. They don't copper foul more than my other rifles.

Rough barrel...maybe thats the key why many shoot so well right out of the box.

This Weather Warrior 16 22-250 doesn't like a clean barrel in fact the first range test was disappointing until about 20 rounds down the barrel. When aggressively cleaned it requires a fouled barrel to regain sub-moa accuracy.

ER SHAW builds all there custom rifles around the Savage action that should say something.

Same for MOA Precision.

I have an old 116 (long action) in .223. It's ugly as sin --- with a too flexible forearm on the plastic stock. I put a Sharp Shooter's trigger on it --- had to hog out the trigger recess in the stock to get it to fit. It's extremely accurate with 55 grain Ballistic Tips. It's my stay in the truck all year gun. Dropped a far away Coyote with it last week.

I mostly shoot Savage but to be fair the list of rifles I wouldn't own is much shorter. Every one of them on my safes are shooters. I do have a 270 that took some figuring out but now she shoots .5 MOA.

I own several. All are good shooters. I have a Stevens 200 in .270(Timney trigger added), stainless Axis .270 (Basix trigger added), Model 10 .308 w/accutrigger, a Model 16 in .300 WSM with accutrigger. I formerly owned a 1961 made M 110 in .30-06.

The Model 16 took me a couple weeks to figure out, which is probably why I got it really cheap. But now it's 3/4" for 3 shots at 100 yd with factory ammo.

Yep, they're overpriced! Roughly $1000 for a Savage in a Boyd's stock. I have no problems sinking a grand into a Savage obviously, but I have more options in my Savage for the same money than Shaw offers.

Does anyone have any recommendations for stiffening the front end of a Axis stock?

Salvage, ugly as a fence post but shoot almost like a custom.

I have 3 that I shoot, 223 260 223Hog Hunter, 1 Stevens 200 in 300WM waiting as a donor. 22-250 barrel was replaced with the 260 Criterion. All have been .5" shooters, the Hog Hunter is a dog at 1" and I haven't played with it. Just generic reload and shoot it in the pos floppy stock.

I'm contemplating going to pick up another today. With the rebate it's a steal for this particular model.

It says they want to cut corners.

Yea whatever

Cheapest and most effective is to buy a Boyd's laminate stock.




Do you own one a Shaw Mark VII? They're charging $490 for a Savage action, but what work has been done to it, has it been trued in any way? The stock looks suspiciously like a run of the mill Boyd's because the prices match up closely, and they don't currently offer a synthetic version. Sure you can get a helical fluted barrel and some other options like a muzzle brake but you're nearly $1K into the base model rifle that probably won't shoot any better than a factory Savage.

I can pick up a Savage rifle with a $50-100 rebate, drop it in a Boyd's stock, and have it shoot as good as the Shaw MKVII and save an average of $300. Or I can skip the Boyd's stock and drop the barreled action in a McMillan for the same price as the Shaw, or if I buy a long action then I can use a B&C Medalist and save about $200 on the MKVII.

I really have a feeling Shaw isn't doing anything special to the actions and just assembling a rifle with off the shelf actions and calling it a custom. The way I look at it I can buy a Kimber Montana for the price of a base model Shaw and if I don't like it get my money back. If I buy a tricked out MKVII I'm almost the cost of a new Barrett Filedcraft, and I again know which I can get my money back out of it.

There is nothing wrong IMO opinion if a guy wants to have Shaw assemble a rifle for them in a cartridge that isn't standard offering. However with patience a guy could assemble the same rifle for less money with better options. I'm just over $1100 into my build I posted pictures of with all the work shown and started in August of 2016 when I bought the barrel. It then took me until Feb 2017 before I found the right deal on a Savage action.

I paid $250 plus shipping and transfer for the used .223 Savage Accustock with DBM, I sold the barrel for $75, scope for $35, and extra youth stock for $35. So after buying the recoil lug, bolt handle and lift kit that leaves me about $200 into the rifle. 6X45mm X-caliber barrel $300 on sale, action work, barrel, and bolt fluting was $332, Cerakote, engraving and Hydrodip on the stock was another $300. I have $450 that I spent for the scope, rings, and bases that have yet to go on, but that puts me at a total of $1582 in my build, to get something close to what I did from Shaw will run $1300 without scope.

1K for a salvage, LMFAO. Rube Goldberg bolt design, [bleep] bottom metal.

Couldn't have expressed my own feelings about them any better.

They are hideous rifles I tell ya. Couldn't even enjoy my hunt with this ugly thing hanging out in front of me.



https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/se...dia/33481148250/large/1510439479/enhance

I just picked up a pair of Savage Axis II's in .223 & .270. I happened to be perusing Cabela's website online and saw they have a wood stocked Axis model now.

So then it also happened that they had them on sale from $479, reduced to $299.

The hardwood stock is a Boyds Classic apparently, the recoil pad is marked Boyds. There is quite a difference in the wood stocked version compared to the Tupperware version, it feels like an altogether different gun.

The gun comes with a Weaver Kaspa 3X9 scope with ballistic plex recticle, supposedly already bore sighted, but I'll check it.

So the gun with Weaver Kaspa scope, Boyds stock and accu-trigger was on sale for $299, then a $50 rebate from Savage, 10 dollar off coupons compliments of Cabelas made them $239 out the door from the Delaware store since there is no sales tax and no NICS fee.

Certainly not the greatest guns in the world, but pretty hard to beat for the price, and the wood stock makes quite a difference in the feel of the gun, I must say.

They had me when all of the sudden it was easy to find one in 260 up here around 2010. I bought a 16fcss (stainless, metal detach mag, accustock) and as the rumour went it shot real good probably the best of any out of the box rifle I've messed with actually. Then I figured a lightweight hunter also in 260 would be a sweet little thing, poor man's mountain rifle Then a heavy barrel 12 in 223 followed me home oh, and a mk11 .22 Don't do it, if you buy your first Salvage good chances you'll end up with a few of these but ugly abominations in your space.

And those have the AccuTrigger that wasn't a deal .......................................it was a steal.

Ed, I was thinking the same thing when I picked them up, I said to my lady that I should have ordered a dozen of them. Garry

Didnt Lazzeroni use Savage actions on their rifles?

We know the barrels are made in house but the actions are not. So why would ER SHAW just slap one of there barrels on somebody else's receiver without truing it first? I'm certain this question has come up more than once. ER SHAW has been in business for a long time. They would b the one to ask first before spewing out such statements before knowing. I'm assuming they do but it's a question I will be asking them soon.

I have a savage American classic in 308 very accurate gun and not too ugly

I don't know much about gunsmithing,but I was under the impression that Savage's floating bolt head negated the need for truing an action.

Don't think they do that anymore, but they did at one time for a better price point than their custom actions.

Agreed, they're not too hard on the eyes at all.

They are more consistently more accurate out of the box than the Kimber Montana.

I don't know if I was spewing, I was asking if you knew something about the Mark VII rifle. I can save you some trouble, I found an email chain I had with someone named Chris that works/worked for ER Shaw back in 2008. I'd forgot I had even inquired about them until this morning when i found a quote for a build from Shaw in one of my old files on my computer. It was for a .338-06 stainless synthetic rifle, obviously I never bought it.



I can tell you this is probably the reason I didn't buy one. I had been burned once before by a promise of a custom rifle by paying up front, and the idea of paying upfront a second time didn't appeal to me.



I've paid for a Savage action to be blueprinted on a 1:7 twist .243 I built for launching 105-115 grain bullets. It also had a 1 lb Sharpshooter competition trigger, Sharpshooter bolt handle, Sharpshooter .25 precision ground recoil lug, HS Precision stock bedded by Kevin Weaver, 20 MOA EGW base, Viper 6.5-20X50, sitting in lapped Warne Maxima rings it weighed over 11 lbs and it was consistently a .5 MOA gun at 300 yards for five or more rounds. However, I had a factory Stevens 200 .243 Win with only a tuned trigger that shot .75 MOA at 300 yards with 95 grain NBT and 100 grain Sierra PH bullets with a 3-9X40 Vari-X II scope for five rounds. I decided after that there was no reason to blueprint another Savage action.

The floating bolt head may make sure the lugs both seat. But how does it then make sure the plane of the bolt face is perpendicular to the center line of the chamber/bore? What does it do to ensure the bore and action are coaxial?

I have 2.... One is a 16 Lightweight Hunter in 243 and the other is an Axis 223... The Axis serves its purpose as a truck gun that shoots cheap fmj ammo fairly well. The LWH has been a big disappointment though.. It will be for sale shortly. Id have already posted it but I will be gone for 2 weeks and am just going to wait til I get home. From the rugh bolt to the cheap stock to the not consistent accuracy... color me not impressed. I hope the others perform much better than the one I have. Might be something as simple as torque sequence on the stock but Im over it. Only accurate guns are interesting.

^^^^^^^^^This. Savages have never been a bargain, do they work most certainly but they are not for me and I am far from being a gun snob. They initiated the current run to the bottom with their line of Axis rifles.

The designers of the Remington 710 take issue with that comment.

Both of my LWH rifles will shoot 100 yard 3 shot groups sub MOA. I haven't tinkereed with them at all, that's straight out of the box. Mine are 223 and 6.5 Creedmoor. What kind of accuracy are you getting out of yours? My Savage model 11 Prairie Dog Hunter will do 1/2 MOA.

Salvage Rifles

I'm not sure I'm understanding completely. I told you I didn't know much about gunsmithing. Are you saying that the lugs might be making full contact but be off to one side or the other?

If the floating head has to tilt to make both lugs contact, then will that not throw off the alignment of the bolt head face since it tilts right along with the lugs?

Deleted. Wrong thread.

I have a couple. One in 223 and one in 308.




The 223 shoots great but isn't the most reliable at feeding rounds.




Just bought this one and haven't really played with it too much yet.

Nothing much of anything shot good. 95 gr nbt. 85 gr partitions, 80 gr ttsx, 95 gr sst... Only thing that would group consistently well was the Barnes. A really good group was .7-.8 and the exact same load the next day would be 1.5...... Just a piss poor excuse of a rifle for the price.

They are kind of klunky. But all I have messed with shoot pretty darn good....but a rem VT will too....also I always had great success with the mod 70 push feeds they are real nice actions and have always shot great.....if you want a cheap accurate beater truck gun the savage is it....if you want to trick out a bolt action start with a good platform....a push feed model 70 can be had cheaper than a savage and you get a good trigger and 3 pos safety and you don't have to look at that hidious barrel nut...

Here’s one I picked up, waiting on rings to arrive.

I've got Savage rifles in 204, 243, 308, 30-06, and 300WSM. They are all shooters, but yes I agree they are not the prettiest rifles in the rack. The tight little groups make it easier to forget about the looks. They are solid rifles and I would recommend them to anyone.

The Savage 110E in .22-250 Dad gave me had about 2000 rounds through it and would still print 5 shots into a 100-yard group you could completely cover with a dime. Daughter #2 was being kind when she called it "homely". But it shot, so I didn't care.

The .243Win FXP3 I picked up used for $295 was going to be a donor for a 6.5-something-or-other until I loaded up some mid-range Hornady 95g SST loads and tried them. Crap, damn thing was under .5MOA. And yeah, its got an ugly synthetic stock. Not going to touch that rifle, need another donor.

I tried Savage and never liked it enough to stick with it. It was accurate but that is it. It looks and feels like crap but they shoot. I have a friend that think it is the best thing since toilet paper but I would not get another one.

I have had two and both had feeding issues from the blind magazine. Maybe they have changed things though. One was a 300mag and the other a 308. In both,the round would prematurely clear the lips causing the round to pop out and not feed.

I would disagree on this statement, at least with my 10 Predator Hunter in 260 Rem. I think it looks great and the ergonomics are very good. The Accustock is nice, just takes a bit of fiddling to put it together properly if taken apart. Very accurate, feeding could be a bit better but it works.

I don't know. I'm on a savage kick lately just for the versatility. I put a 338 fed barrel on a striker, waiting on a 338-06 barrel for a model 110 action I bought cheap, and swapped my buddies 300 WM for 338 WM on his moose rifle. I'm kinda liking that. They seem pretty damn accurate so I can overlook the ugly.

I've owned a couple Savages over the years and while they did shoot very good I just can bring myself to keeping them.

Owning an ugly rifle that shoots well is about the same as being married to an ugly woman who can cook. You still have to get past the ugly part. I never could

When I was a teen, a girl asked me to a party. I said no, and one of her friends asked me why I told her that. I told her friend that I thought the girl was ugly and I didn't date ugly girls. That girl ended up inheriting over a million dollars later on, but her looks never changed. I feel the same way about Savage rifles. I know they supposedly shoot good, but I think they're ugly, and I've never owned one, nor had any desire to.

Years ago, I used to do a little gunsmithing for some of the locals. Mainly minor repair and scope mounting and sighting in. I had several guys bring me their Savage 110's that they'd bought at Walmart with the scope mounted and boresighted, and wanted me to see why the rifle didn't hit the target. I always told them that boresighted only meant that it might shoot close, and was never an indication that it was ready to take hunting. Those rifles were generally accurate enough for deer hunting, without a doubt, but those were the roughest actions I'd ever seen. I'm sure a lot's changed since then, but I'm still not a Savage fan.

Hmmm not sure about that Volvo reference., they are truly one of the worlds greatest POS cars I would say more like Nissan

^^^^^^ This^^^^^^^^ I would stop shooting rifles if that is all that was offered.

AFU - but generally accurate. IMO. And I own ugly rifles, which shoot very well... Right price, i'd buy one.

I'd rather own an ugly rifle that shoots than a beautiful rifle that won't.

I'd put my $295 Savage FXP3 in .243 Win up against many production rifles costing many times that.

I have a Stevens 200 in 22-250 and an Axis II in 223. I put Boyds stocks and metal trigger guards on both of them. Right off the shelf they both shot 1/2" with hand loads with minimal load development (like find a load with Varget, H322 or H335 in the Lee manual, take it to the range and shoot ragged holes). The action on my stevens 200 is nice, the Axis leaves a little to be desired but quite honestly I don't care because of how well it shoots all different kinds of loads. There is a little bit of me that is regretting buying my Weatherby Vanguard S2 in 25-06 and not the hardwood axis but I was hung up on a 24" barrel.

I am always confused about all the Savage hate, every one I have seen has been incredibly accurate and not picky. In the future I would only buy an Axis with the new hardwood stock, that makes them like different rifle. I should state that mine are predator calling rifles so I do not require much in the looks dept. I hated the flimsy stock on the axis and got tired of the camo one that came on my Stevens 200. They both function 100%, shoot 1/2 MOA and now feel solid with the Boyds stocks.

I am glad I can get past the ugly. It has allowed me to come into possession of quite few rifles that are some of the best bargains in the industry. And make no mistake about it, Savage rifles are ugly. Good thing folks don't worry about or can get past their scopes being ugly. If not SWFA wouldn't exist.

I have never really been a huge fan of savage rifles due to the way they have looked and felt for my tastes over the years. That has however slightly changed as I have bought a couple savage 12fv rifles on sale at cabelas recently and they are great shooters. I still struggle with the looks to some extent but work well for what I bought them for.

I own 3 Savage rifles. Two 116 SF WW and one 10ML-II SST/LAM all are impressively accurate by ANY factory rifle standard and the only bad thing I will say of them is they are heavy. My 116's are especially guilty as both are of the blind magazine type and both weigh more than my M700 with DBM in 338wm.

My only complaint with present day Savage rifles and the company in general is due to their ever rising popularity, they are getting IMHO expensive. There was no more compelling selling point to a Savage rifle than they produced a very accurate OOTB rifle for a very reasonable price. They still are producing very accurate rifles, just now, again this is IMHO not as affordable as they once were and quite honestly they are in danger of pricing their product into a class of rifle that will shoot likely as well but be a more attractive rifle. Such as the Tikka t3 Lite. If my choice is a Savage or a for $100 more a T3 Lite, I'm going with the Tikka.

If weight is not an issue in some but not all of their models, you will more than likely be very happy with a Savage rifle.