Been looking at a new rifle, new school or old school ? I have everything to reload the 270. Would have to buy most all for the 6.5 PRC. Brain is dead looking at ballistic tables and such. It seems it is a matter of 2 inches or so. wind, drop etc. Then on to rifles.. Sauer, Montana Rifle, Steyr, Bergara, it is getting complicated…

Keep it simple....

Why don't you just get what makes you happy or interests you and not worry about what anybody else thinks?

Yea that is a good thing, have to keep the boss happy, the 6.5 PRC is expensive. Brass hard to find, and I have everything 270 on the shelf. Have had Steyr's. Good to go but I would agree the Pro-Hunter is butt ugly. It does however work very well. I have a Sauer 101 Classic select and it is good to go. Know nothing about the Bergara other than the muzzle loading barrels are very good. Montana rifles, combination of the Pre-64 Winchester and the Mauser Model 98, my favorites in a bolt rifle.

Unless you want to get into long range shooting, stick with what you already have.

I don't think there is anything hunting-wise that can be done with one but not the other.

While I'm not one to talk someone out of a new rifle, I ran the ballistics and costs and went with a .270 for Daughter #1, Remington M700. Loading it with 150g LRAB for as close to 2950 as I can get. Development loads use IMR 7977 and H100V with Hodgdon data as the basis.. I was able to load to a COL length of 3.466", as shown in the photo.

If using factory ammo only, I'd go with the 6.5PRC.

The photo below shows a hand-loaded 150g LRAB .270 cartridge compared to a Winchester 150g Power-Point factory load, (I know, the handload is .126" longer than SAAMI COL.)



Using 7000 feet above sea level and MPBR zeroes for a 6" target, 10mph xwind:

6.5 PRC / 130g Scirocco II @ 3050fps
600yds = -46.6", 2331fps, 1568fpe, 14.9" drift

.270 Win / 150g Long Range AB @ 2940fps
600yds = -50.2", 2294fps, 1753fpe, 14.3" drift

That's what I am seeing as well. The 270 is old like me, but new powders and bullets also help the old ones.

Look apples to apples 143 ELDX vs.145 ELDX, about 2-1/2" more drift at 500 based on factory numbers. If your that dialed in with all your riggin, then it might mean something.


Not even worth the worry in my book.....

You mean I have to hold 3.6" higher and .6" more into the wind at 600 yards? Wow as soon as I get pictures my 270 Winchester rifles are going on the classifieds! Of course the 270 have an additional 195fpe, which makes all the difference in the world1

For all practical purposes, the 270 and PRC cases have the same capacities, so comparing like bullet weights, in equal platforms, at equal pressures, should equal like results.

Like the 6.5 Crapmore, the PRC was not designed to replace or displace any other cartridge, but to load a mainstream cartridge with better BC bullets in factory firearms that are twisted correctly to stabilize them, and supply reasonably priced ammo to feed them.

Or, if you love 270 calibre, but want more jam, go with the 270WSM. Still à SA cartridge like the PRC, still 270 like your 270Win, but faster than both, roughly equivalent to a 7RM, but with lighter bullets. Good cartridge.

One reason for the 270 Win for Daughter #1 was she doesn't reload - although her hubby and I do. Worst case she can always but factory ammo. Bought a box of 180g WW Power-point loads at Sportsman's Warehouse a couple days ago - just under $19 for the Win, something close to but under $40 for the WSM.

Thanks for this thread. Been looking at both but think I'll just pick up some RL26 and some 145ELD-X and call it a day. Probably do a lot more good than spending money on rifle,dies,bullets, brass, etc.. Don't worry, I'm still a rifle looney at heart.

I'ma tossing the BS flag on that..... cheapskate at heart. till the end..... Loonies HAVE to try.

Could always blow the extra $$$ on a 223 and shoot the piss outta heavies. It'll help you learn to manage that "extra" drift...

We really haven't come a long way since 1923 when Winichester developed the 270 Winchester, Jack was right! IMHO all the BC crap. is BS. Not a dimes worth of difference in drop and drift within all practical hunting ranges it just doesn't matter. 270, 280, 7 mag, 7 08 30 06, all as good as the 6.5 PRC, and better than the 6.5 Creedmoor.if you are a sane and ethical hunter. I see the 750 yard kills on TV with the 6.5 Whiz Bang, they just cut away and edit out the crippled. lost and wounded animals. JUST CHANGE THE CHANNEL!

Aalf, looks like you don't care for the 6.5 CM

Depends on what your definition of "practical hunting range" is....

Some of us like to shoot and play well beyond 1000 yards, so BC is not "crap", and it does matter. So while it may not make a schitt bit of difference to you or some others, I can make my own mind up to what is practical to me by stretching my own limits.

Not true at all, I'm just heavily invested in the 47 Lapua case, so no need for a CM......

BTW....Litz has the BC of the 270 150 LRAB at .543 & the Swift 6.5 130 at .490.

In my PRC I have my pointed 140 VLD's at 630 BC at 3040 FPS...............

I actually don't have a 270, never have. My son has one so I have everything on the shelf except the newer bullets to reload. My Sauer is in 7X64, basically the same as a 280 Rem. It has a shorter barrel, and seems to also be a slower barrel as it has been 75 to 100fps below what the Hornady manual says it should reach, even thought it is the exact same rifle they used. I used the same exact recipe as well. I know every rifle is different. New hunting area with SIL has me in a stand on a clear cut so 300 yards is a possibility that could happen often. I have always been a deep woods hunter, MN, NB, WI, MI. So most of my rifles are setup for shorter range. (scopes/barrel length) As I am getting older I find I do not like the big heavy magnums anymore and they have gone to new owners. Up to 30-06 levels don't bother me but the 30 mags and up I don't like anymore. Looking at a rifle that is flatter shooting that I can learn to hit with at 300 yards. Picked up a scope already with a BDC and already have a Leica range finder. looking at the cost of rifles now days The 6.5's are popular and more expensive than the same thing in 270 and others. Brass for the Nosler's is very expensive, around $3.00 a case.. (26,28) The 6.5 PRC is reasonable but most have it as out of stock.

Quick search found at least three places that had PRC brass in stock......plus found this tidbit:

Your 7x64 is pretty much point-n-click to 300 yds, on deer anyway. Zero it dead on at 200 with a 140 NAB and it's less than 10" low out to 325. You could hold dead center on a deer out to 275. Favor high just a little at 300.

What more do you want?

I've got a .270 and a 6.5 Swede. I have an empty spot in the gun safe. Therefore, I want a 6.5 PRC.

I handled a sauer 100 xt today at sportsman's. At 699 it seems like a really good gun. Amazing trigger, nice stock, and smooth action.

I went through my range crono notes, and with a 140 the 7X64 was only hitting 2800 and barley. I could firewall it I suppose, but don't really like doing that. It's closer to 12" low at 300 from what I see, zeroed 2" high at 100 yards.

I was surprised on the lack of PRC brass at the usual haunts. Leads me to assume the popularity is picking up, and also seeing a lot of loaded ammo online as well.

Bodes well for the round's future......

The PRC will be successful because it is marketed as the Creedmoor's bigger brother. Elk hunters and sheep hunters and those who buy into the long range hunting or shooting events will snap them up.

It would be hard for me, if I was shopping for a rifle cartridge of that type, whether I would go the PRC or the 270WSM.

The 270WSM deserves to be more popular. I consider it the equivalent of the 7mmRM, but in a short action. When I say the equivalent, I mean up to the 7mm 160. Beyond that, like the 175 7mm, obviously the 7mmRM surpasses the 270WSM.

Wonder if they’ll neck up the 6.5 PRC to 7mm and flood the market with accurate hunting ammo, thus putting both the 7WSM and 7SAUM in the coffin.

I thought Hornady screwed the pooch by not necking down the 375 Ruger to 338, 300, and 7mm rather than the RCM rounds.

At least they finally saw the light with the 300 PRC........maybe 7 on the way.....

This seems logical and well thought out

The 270 will not kill elk!

They apparently did the .300PRC 10 years ago but just recently introduced it. Per Hornady video, don't recall which one. Dave Emary, I believe, was doing the talking.

I'd use it until I had to hold off. Can still hold on hide @ 12". JMO, worth everything you paid.

You should probably get a new gun anyway, just to help out the gunmaking brothers and to entertain yourself.

I wish the firearms and ammunition manufacturers well. Having a financially profitable and stable firearms and ammunition industry within our own borders is a key component to supporting the Second Amendment and national security. However, I am getting to the point of "NCF"... New Cartridge Fatigue... All of this blather over 3" of drop and 1/2" of drift @ 600 yards??? Give me a break...

While I appreciate the improvements in bullets and powders over the past several decades, I have to agree with the premise of one of the recent threads that questioned if we could have stopped cartridge development after 1925... Flame suit on...

I agree with you, Orion, as far as hunting is concerned. But most of the recent development has been aimed at competition shooting and hunters have just come along for the ride.

You know as well as I do, whether it's NASCAR, track & field or shooting, serious competitors will about give their right nut for 1/2% advantage!

I would love to see gun manufacturers quietly change the twist rate in some of the popular cartridges to take advantage of the high BC bullets now available, and throat them appropriately for magazine lengths. Had they done that with cartridges like the 22-250, .243, .260, 25-06, and .270, I wonder if we would have even seen the development of things like the Creedmoors and the PRC. Though there is the short action factor, and I happen to prefer short actions...

All that being said, the 6.5 Creedmoor is currently my favorite cartridge. They just got everything right with that one. I don’t know much about the PRC, but perhaps it is a short action 6.5-06? If it gets factory support like the Creedmoor did, it might go far...

John

Hitting barley is always bad. I prefer to hit antelope in a hay field.

Why "quietly"?

If I was a manufacturer, I would jump at the opportunity to gain market share with fast twist barrels. And I'd let the shooting world know with a marketing campaign.

You mean they've risen from the dead?

@Tyrone, Understood and agreed... Just venting...

Yep, I can't spell and spell checker is not my friend.. Perhaps it was the hops.

LOL

No chit, I bought a used 700 BDL in 7SAUM. They really do feed like crap..... on to the DBM....

Concept wise the 6.5 PRC is in the same performance window as the 6.5 Rem Mag (52 years old) with the advantage of 3.00" magazine rifles and Hornady Ammunition behind it. Remington has a way of turning it's back on good ideas. Regardless, the 6.5 Rem Mag can hold it's own today with any in a finely set up and tuned 3.00" magazine rifle. The newest things aren't really that new there just refined. To your question, the 270 Win can do anything in the game field that any 6.5mm can do including the 6.5 PRC or 264 Win Mag. Even the 26 Nosler and 6.5-300 Wby, while they are fast and flat offer little over the 270 Win on game at shooting distances. They do however give provide advanced throat erosion, muzzle blast and recoil.

Well, the 26 Nos has some reach on the .270.

But, IME, they both kill stuff pretty dead. Have both.

DF

A Corolla offers little over a 911 Turbo on the suburbian streets that many people drive. But there are people out there that can and do take advantage of the mechanical superiority of the 911 Turbo, just like there are people that are able to shoot accurately at distances where the 6.5’s and 7’s do have a real advantage over the bullets flung by factory rifles chambered in .270 Win.

I would agree, but in all honesty when comparing 6.5 PRC and 264 WM that advantage doesn't really take effect until charting almost 400 yards of wind and the gap doesn't start to widen greatly until 600 yards. The 270 Win with the 145 eldx will hold it's own way out there and is hardly a corolla. It has for all intense purposes a magnum trajectory and should be zeroed at 250 yards minimum. Are there more preferable cartridge choices for long shots, sure. Do most hunters kill game at 500-400-300 yards, no. Statistically most are shot inside of 200 yards. I guess I would say the 270 Win is a very practical long range cartridge in the game field, not terribly different than the 7mm Rem Mag in many ways. Only one man's opinion.

Differences at typical hunting distances is mostly academic, loony stuff...

To the LR target shooter, maybe a bigger deal.

There are those into LR hunting, some actually qualified, many thinking they are LR hunters, shouldn't be.

Getting enough energy to a critter for a kill is not the same as getting a bullet to a target.

So, to answer these questions depends on the situation. No simple answer, one size does not fit all...

IMO.

DF

If I'm reading you right then a vanilla 270 or 7x64 is more than plenty for your requirements. Hitting out to 300 yards is easy peasy with 308 loads mimicking LC Match ammo, basically a 165/168 around 2550 to 2600 fps.

Re: Cartridge development in 1925....one might back up to 1894 and 1905.......covers ALOT Of ground.

Aalf, I misinterpreted the crapmore comment I too have a 47....the most pleasant and easiest round I have worked with next to the 6BR Norma.

As to the PRC, nothing in stone Re: it's success but yes it's marketed as the CM big brother....Hornady saw a void in 6.5s, they sell a lot of Grendel, and CM ammo, as well as components no doubt, the PRC will likely have a respective following.

No doubt much overlap, but industry support matters as the post above on the RM...Rem has dropped the ball so often on it's own creations. Hornady prevailed.

Remington has dropped more than one ball.

There is a list.

DF

Well said, DF-

This whole 6.5 mania has deluded a lot of folks into thinking that just buying one automatically makes them a LR hunter. I will venture to say that the vast majority of hunters have no business taking shots at game beyond 300 yards with any certainty of a fatal hit, much less at the 600 to 1000 yard ranges often touted by the 6.5 fans. Like most fads and industry-hyped trends, eventually it will fade away, but not before a lot of wounded game gets away, never to be found.

bighorn,

Your point about people who buy 6.5 Creedmoors (and rifles for other long-range hunting cartridges) is well-taken, but I am afraid your prediction about the upcoming demise of the Creedmoor is not. Here's why, from a post I put up yesterday on another thread:

Yes, there are reasons beside the "recent" publicity on the 6.5 Creedmoor for its extreme popularity. I put "recent" in quotes because the cartridge was introduced a dozen years ago, and has kept growing in popularity since then. Most new factory centerfire rounds only sell well for 2-3 years before starting to fade. That's because publicity can only do so much, and factory PR departments can only afford to flog some new cartridge for a short time before the cartridge must stand on its own. (In a way, it's like book publishing. If a new book doesn't continue selling after the initial announcement and publicity, then the company eventually quits printing copies, because there's no sense in printing books that never leave warehouses.)

Cartridges that become profitable within that initial period usually stick around for a while, and those that are selling FAR better after a dozen years tend to become world standards, meaning that just about every company making sporting rifles chambers them, and just about every ammunition company makes ammo. That is exactly what's happened with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Not only do major American companies produce both rifles and ammo, but so do many European companies--and that trend continues to spread.

One of my friends is a South African professional hunter who also owns a big sporting goods store. A few months ago he told me that the majority of new rifles he sells today are 6.5 Creedmoors. The reason? They work, not just for target shooting but the constant commercial meat-hunting that takes place in SA, since game meat can legally be sold in supermarkets and restaurants. Such meat-hunters like the 6.5 Creedmoor because of its accuracy and light recoil, allowing them to precisely place shots to ruin the least amount of valuable meat, along with affordable, accurate factory rifles and ammo. Such "cullers" are among the most practical hunters in the world, and since they're in business to make a profit, are not likely to spend money on the latest "fad."

But according to you, and others like you, the 6.5 Creedmoor's world-wide and growing popularity, a dozen years after its introduction, is totally due to publicity.

You mean that not everyone is ranging a big critter at 800 yards, dialing, pulling off the perfect shot, then posting a selfie on Instagram? What? Not using up all the windshield and taking hints and being led to water and all that jazz?

Wtf?

So if I got this right, you're saying that I could buy some decent ammo, then practice with it, then shoot something around 300 yards maybe? Like if I do my part all day long?

My apoligies! Didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, certainly not yours.

I couldn't agree more. My longest game shots came under pronghorn distances in Wyoming. Always grabbed the 7mm Rem Mag and 140 Nosler BT for the chore. Have an inkling to build a 6mm Creedmoor now. Think it would be a very good chamber for western plains game without the shoulder bite.

^^^^THIS^^^^THIS, and more of this...…..

Can't see much performance difference between the two for the hunting I do, but that's just me. Another question, in the short term at least, is can you find a rifle you like at present for the PRC? It's very likely the available choices will increase with time.

Also, FWIW, I easily get 3080fps with a 147gr ELD-M, with a 24" barrel, and a properly put together handload in my PRC.

I hunted with a .270 for 30+ years and know it well....

Haha no shiit

There are only a few rifles out there right now for the 6.5 PRC, two I like are a Sauer 100, and a Montana Rifle that is beautiful but expensive. Ton's available in 270 many that I like. Saw a Cooper Jackson Hunter in 6.5X55 that I also like, and looking back at my 6.5X55 notes, I can't get to 6.5 PRC levels but can go up and beyond 6.5 Creedmoor levels. (Sako Finnbear so 60K ish) I have sold a couple of very nice safe queens, so I have the budget. Time to choose and get to a range. I will admit I have not hunted at long range (to me beyond 200 yards) so a bit of a learning curve coming up. New scope with BDC and the whole enchilada on hitting reliably at 300 yards. In the deep deer woods I am used to the 9.3X62, works very well with a Kahles 2X7 #4. Not going to work very well beyond 150 yards..

Any comments on the Montana or Cooper rifles? From what I have read both have had their issues and growing pains.

If I were buying a new rig off the rack it'd be a something CM though. And if Joe Average was questioning his 270's "performance", I'd tell him it's crap and offer to buy it outta mercy....😉

Man, your heart is huge!

Truth. The donkeys at work I recommend a 6.5 creed simply because all the cheap badass ammo available. That said the 6 and 6.5 don’t horn me up but the 22 does.... waiting on broughton for a snout right now.

PS , all the shiit I killed this year was under 80 yards, glad I had that 6.5 bee built!!! Grin

Am liking my 6.5 PRC for the same reasons.

Anybody who likes the .270 should like the 6.5 PRC. But apparently some think they would be be traitorous....

John hopefully the some makers start chambering the prc... besides the $1500+ makers

I’d like a Tikka.

So a 270 is like the fat old gay guy down the road the 6.5 PRC is the skinny jeans hipster?



Speaking of Tikka......22" SL in 6 CM would be a doozy, but not sure how it fits in the realm.


Could be transgender.

Not sure about that, the 6.5 PRC is a rather short porky little bugger. Almost makes the old 270 look rather slim and trim. At any rate down to two riles, the Sauer 100 in 6.5 PRC or a Montana X3 in 270...

How will you be using it? Out to 800 yards, I would go with the 270 as its easier right now to find components. Because of the high BC's f the 6.5 (ELD-X .277 vs .264), I would go for the 6.5PRC or 26 Nosler or 6.5-06.

Which of the Short Magnum actions out there have long enough magazines to accommodate the 6.5PRC OAL ?
Are the Kimber 8400, and the Win70 WSM long enough ? Shorter isn’t better in this caliber

I asked a similar question on this board. Some might say that the Rem 700 won't allow for the "proper" OAL for the 140 class bullets. They will but you'll have to swap out the stock mag. But to your question folks I know are using Defiant and Savage actions. Rumor had it that Berger is working on a 150 class .264 boolet.😯😯😯

I asked Tikka HQ about a T3X in 6.5 PRC and they said "no production plans in 2019".

Judman,

You can buy a Sauer 100 for $799. I strongly suspect there will be more.

338Rules,

I "built" my 6.5 PRC on a "short magnum" Remington 700 action, since it was already a suitable rifle, the 9.3 Barsness-Sisk that Charlie Sisk built over a decade ago, with a pillar-bedded Bansner High Tech stock and a #4 Lilja barrel. Simply had Charlie stick on another #4 Lilja 6.5 barrel.

Then I decided to see how the rifle shot with various bullets seated to 2.86", the max length that would work in the factory magazine, before installing a long box. Turned out at least three of the bullets I hoped to use shot BETTER at 2.86" inch than when seated close to the lands. This isn't unusual with high-BC bullets, in my experience, and particularly with the Barnes LRX.

I love my .270, and I like the idea of the 6.5 PRC. I like to hunt and go to the range and shoot, but I doubt I'll ever seriously compete in any shooting competitions. From my perspective as a guy who tried a lot of different cartridges on both sides of the .270 Win, I just dont see the paper ballistics of the PRC vs. .270 transfering to real world hunting situations I find myself in. That's my only issue with the PRC and the many other cartridges I've tried, and why I keep going back to the .270 Win.

Kinda like being loyal to a tire size🙄.

Can't see me getting one, mostly because I'm getting too old to chase everything that comes along. Got too many components to burn up before I go under as it is!

This one oughta put the skids on some 6.5/06 projects.

Well after a lot of thought, comparisons etc. I bought a rifle. Found a NIB Sako 85 synthetic for $899 in 270 Winchester. That and I have brass, dies, and 11 suitable powders on the bench made the decision easier. I'm sure that the new Sauer 100 is a good rifle, but it would not be a Sako, and the price was less than $200 difference. Now a lot of range time..

When that 270 fails to deliver, just sell it. 😉

Well until the Looney kicks in.. Any one interested in A Sauer 101 Classic Select with a Minox ZA5 2X10. I am guessing if I do my part the 270 will do just fine. The Sauer will be kept for the deep woods.

Curioser, and Curioser !

What were the OAL when seated to the lands ?

I believe that this is the same 700 SA magnum that you so traitorously discarded an accurate 7Saum barrel , because of bullet length issues. Your co-conspirator in all these shenanigans , CharlieS must be truly persuasive 😉

I look forward to reading more about your findings with the 6.5 PRC , especially in the context of your experience with the 26 Nosler and 6.5x300 Bee. No doubt, you’ll feel compelled to drag out the 256 Newton in your historical preamble.😎

Happy New Year

Are we still talking about shots to 300 yards on the outside?

Saw these last night at SW for a cool grand. That's a good price.

Saw them for 699 last week.

If you want a 6.5 consider the 6.5-06. Pick up a used 30-06/270 rifle of your choice & rebarrel to 6.5-06. Nothing to to change or alter.Rebarrel & shoot. Get 6.5 PRC exact ballistics for a fraction of the cost with mountains of inexpensive 25-06/30-06 new & once fired brass. Yes the 270 is a decent cartridge but I sensed you really want a 6.5. The 6.5 will allow bullets from 85gr to 160. Will handle any thing from mice to moose with the right bullet. Plus mild recoil. If deer is you target a 100gr Barnes or Nosler Partition. For long range the 6.5 bullet selection goes on & on.

All true if you reload (which the OP states he does). I think much of the appeal of the creed, and prc by extension, is being able to buy quality factory loads relatively inexpensively. Why no one makes a 6.5/06 factory load in this era of everything 6.5 is probably a question for JB (or has been covered before.)

Well I went with a Sako 85 in 270. Range will be possible 300 yards shots. 6.5-06 is interesting, and I have a possible donor sitting around. A push feed Winchester Model 70 that is currently a 243. It is however a long action. One of those mid 70's XTR Models. When the looney kicks in again that one may get some attention.

Try the 150g LRAB and H100V. Makes the .270 Win better than the 7mm RM loads I used for 20+ years.

I have the Hornady ELD-X and the new Sierra Gamechangers on the way, will get some LRAB's as well. The Accubond in 130 is the favorite load in the Steyr (6.5X57) that I gave my daughter. 130's to 150's in the 270 seem to be the best for deer and up. Lots of range time coming up, new scope with a BDC and actually shooting at the yardage instead of how many inches up at 100 yards...

Definitely try the 150 ABLR.

My 6.5 Creedmoor loves the 142 ABLR and the bullet performs extremely well on game, near and far. I’m liking it better than the ELD-X.

Tag to follow up 150gr ABLR loads and results...

150 ABLR's were horrible in my 270. I'd guess R26 would push them better.

Dang, that is a good shooting load right there. Might be tough to top that one!

Stick a vanilla 130 on top of about 55 grains of "4350" and you'll be golden.

It's only 300 yards. I believe you're overthinking it. Am I a lone voice crying in the wilderness?

Nope. 300 isn't very far A box of WW 130g Power-Points will do just fine at that range.

I've got RL26 and 4831SC, 150gr ABLR's, and an 1:8" twist Lilja fitted to a Stiller action. Need to go play next week after the wind dies down...

The more you shoot it, the closer it is too....I went Hornady 140 BTSP's Customs. .486 BC @ 2,940.

Easy peasy.....

Heck, I've gone to 308 loads with 165 Ballistic Tips at 2550 fps +/- for 300 yards and in.

Agreed. 20 years ago I thought 200 yards was a pretty long shot because most of my shooting was at 100. When the range was reconfigured I started shooting 300, then gradually out to 600, then clay pigeons at 600.

These days 300 seems close.

You guys are dashing my 6.5 PRC dreams...now it comes down to 270...or 280