Could I have a campfire brainstorm?

Remington ADL
...

Good way to save weight, reduce cost, and shift the balance point forward.


Okie John

Also makes for comfortable carry, it will be warmer and usually more rounded, to me it feels better in hand.

Also eliminates the possibility of the latch opening and dumping cartridges.

....Winchester 670 (not sure if all were)
Barrett Fieldcraft
Kimber Montana
Forbes
NULA
......

Absolutely zero weight difference between ADL & BDL.....

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Colt Light Rifles

Marlin XL7 and XS7

Winchester 670 and (maybe) 770

aalf, I have converted several Mausers to blind magazines and it results in a good weight reduction.

Agree on the M700 no weight advantage either way

Lots of older savages too

Model 70 winlite (some)
Remington 700 ks (all)
Remington 700 ti (gen1)

Blaser R93
Blaser R8 "S" model.

No biggie either way. My FC is 12 or 13 oz. lighter than my Alpine. Both balance and carry well.

OTOH, mags that stick out the bottom are annoying to me, others love 'em. Access to the action, by floorplate or removeable magazine is handy at times.

It seems to me THAT is ignored or not mentioned by many.
Also if anything gets below the follower of a blind magazine, the stock has to be removed
to clear it out.

My first REAL deer rifle (AFAIC) was a 700 BDL in 1975. In all these years I never have
had a floor plate to pop open or get opened unintentionally.
*now I know of one a hunter had that opened UNintentionally; care to guess what
BRAND it was ?

Jerry

I'm good with either. Neither is a disadvantage to me.

It can make for a significant weight difference with some rifles, (4-6 oz), not so much with others. As long as the weight difference isn't huge I'm OK either way.

Most of my favorites are adl. But, as others have said, I’m ok with either.

Only thing I don't like is jacking out the live rounds through the bolt. Made me cringe when I was teaching my daughter how to empty her ADL .243. Other than that they are great to carry.

I never fully chamber a round when emptying mine. Just push the bolt forward until the cartridge pops clear of the feed lips, then open the bolt and rotate the rifle to dump it into my hand. Repeat as needed.

Yep

Howa offers blind magazine rifles, and some come with a detachable magazine conversion kit in the box too.

I personally have no use for blind mags.

I like them. No issue on emptying the mag without chambering a round.

Yup. I was futzing around with my Fieldcraft trying to figure out if the mag box was floating free, and got the follower cocked. Had a bit of a time getting it back in place. Didn't want to pull the stock since I left my 80 inch-pound driver in my other pants (the ones I never had).

The lack of an opening in that one is a concession I'm willing to make, everything else considered. But I like the Alpine almost as much, it has a floorplate, and cost about a third of the price.

Most of us could lighten our load not on our rifles, but on our waistline.

Drop ten pounds and you wont give a damn about 4-6 ounces.

Sorry, but my standard retort to that logic is that I carry my rifle with my hands and arms, or slung on my shoulder, and that's where the difference is felt (probably not 4-6 oz though), not by my legs or lungs. Paring down one's ass is well worth doing, as is exercising to gain strength, endurance, and lung capacity. Been using a rower for a month or so, and can already feel a big difference.

A similar subject is the use of tactical-type scopes on hunting rifles. My main gripe with those (aside from the reticles) is not the 20+ ounces, but the bulky form factor that it results from. I find tall turrets, side-focus knobs, large eyepieces and objectives and high mounts decidedly unwieldy on a rifle that gets carried a lot and shot a little, and also slow to mount, aim, and shoot. Edit: I just mounted a 20oz Tract on my FN .270, a pretty heavy rifle even bare, and sighted it in. After handling it a bit, I ripped it off and replaced it with a closeout Weaver V7. Dropped 9oz, but more important, improved the balance and feel a bunch. Still goes over 9lbs, but might actually go hunting now.

Like the ADL style, no problems for me.

I think it is a matter of how often you're going to empty and reload your rifle. Personally I don't care for blind mags, because there are scenarios where I might need to unload and load again several times in the course of a days hunting, and cycling the rounds through the action each time's a bit tedious. In fact that is part of the reason the majority of my repeaters have detachable magazines.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks all, for your thoughts and contributions. Especially for the makes and models.

I was thinking - KISS.

Keep it simple, Stupid.

A blind magazine, stainless short bolt action rifle in .308 Win. balanced on the front screw with a 18" threaded barrel and suppressor, stiff composite stock, a Montana Sling and Talley Lightweight or Leupold Backcountry Mounts holding a Leupold FX 6x36 scope with LR Duplex.

Can there be a more simply thought-out blueprint for big game hunting?

Then I realize, thats a Kimber Adirondack and I suddenly loose interest. LOL



Where am I wrong?

Add the Winchester Model 54.

You’re not wrong and other than going 20” on the barrel that’s exactly what I put together this year.



Rem 700, 308 cut to 20” threaded for a muffler
McM mountian rifle ADL
Triggertech
Nightforce sitting in Talleys

I have 3. High Brass' Savage 110 .243 we bought him for his first rifle, Rem 660, and my Win M70 classic stainless in a Winlite stock. I like a hinged floor plate better than a detachable mag or blind mag.

I really like blind magazines! For rough country they typically offer a lighter weight, a more rugged rifle that has a nice feel to it and there is no floor plate to open at the wrong time; as has happened.

I refuse to buy a rifle with a blind magazine. Used to own a Kimber Montana but one hunting season cured me. We are required by law to empty the gun anytime we go into a vehicle moving from spot to spot and (obviously) I do the same whenever I get home... and I unloading by cycling the action was a huge pain.

I much prefer flush fit mags (ala Browning X Bolt and Sako 85). Hinged floor plates are fine too.

I prefer a blind magazine, and love the Barrett and Kimber... I just can't relate to the "pain" of that first world problem of having to cycle the bolt to unload.

This, and generally I’m not getting in and out of a vehicle very often when hunting so it’s really not an issue.

I like not having my hand on cold metal when carrying my rifles hunting as I’ve never grown fond of slings. That and I’m cheap, so no bottom metal usually saves me money on hunting rifles. Pure range guns are another story.

Plus like fubar mentioned, I prefer the more rounded bottom of an adl style for carrying a hunting rifle.

Do you prefer boots that weigh 5 pounds apiece?

Have you any idea what the weight savings would be is starting a custom project from scratch and going with an ADL style bottom on a 98 as opposed to a full steel hinged bottom?

Lol, so true... ask any world-class cyclist if he wants to lose weight off his bike... not all weight is created equal, and the idea body weight is the same as gear weight is misinformed at best.

And btw, I don’t have any weight to lose... I’m pretty close to my ideal weight, but I’ll shed weight on gear anywhere I can.

What the horse has to carry to the finish line is the reason you don't see any fat jockeys.

To each, his own.........and having said that, I prefer a floorplate that will allow me to unload the rifle that way, rather than one cartridge at a time. As far as weight goes, the difference is of no concern to me, and I doubt it is enough to ever matter.

Same way with accuracy. I have a Remington LVSF in 243. The factory story was ADL style. I never liked it, and put a B&C Alaskan T1 stock on it, BDL style. Not one bit of difference in the accuracy department, and I like the rifle a lot better now.

Never been that broke that I would have to settle for an ADL
These days I am DBM

Fixed it.🤡

Sorry, just picking low-hanging fruit.

It depends.
We also have to completely unload for any vehicle ride, so,
on the few occasions I have hunted with a group driving, and had
a blind mag, it sucked. In that situation DBM is the king.

But I rarely hunt that way.

Mostly I hunt several hours to a whole day without the need to unload.
Then, it really doesn't matter. Although as some have said, blind is often
shaped better and warmer. Another thing, the stock doesn't seem to show
the wear of my hand as fast as a floorplate does.
But I like to see that, good honest use.

Yep, amazing how many people don’t do this.

ADL is my preferred style for a hunting rifle hands down.

Can’t figure out the unloading argument here, as it takes me about 8 seconds to unload any of my fully loaded rifles with blind mags. No need whatsoever to fully chamber the round so the safety argument is another one I don’t get.

I like DBMs, they offer flexibility in COAL and I guess can be seen as handy in some situations. Will probably give a M5 type a try on my next build, which is going to be a mid weight, just to see how i like it. My only concern is how it will carry in hand.

Hinged floorplate is my least favorite. I don’t see the benefit or draw to these at all. Most of my rifles in the past were this style, still never found one advantage.

To each his own, just my opinions. But I’ll take a blind mag every day for a hunting rifle, especially light/mountain style that I’m normally carrying.

Nice.

20" is my limit, having done the shorty thing about 50 years ago. No plans for cans either at this point. Not sure if they're legal for hunting here, and ranges all require protection even if you're the only one there. One or two shots while hunting ain't gonna hurt me at this point, and there are other options. Would definitely get one for use on the little Virginia farms around here, if any of them would let me hunt!

Do the same, but how many times does one have to unload a rifle before it becomes obvious?

Truth is most times when hunting with floor plate rifle I often still empty it this way.

I'm okay with any technique for magazine access as long as the gun consistently cycles and produces moa or less accuracy. Have owned blind mags and always unloaded by half cycling a push feed bolt.......have always wondered how controlled feed bolts do this without chambering the round ......but if you half a 3 position safety it's a moot point I guess.

With CRF you feed the shell only part way, then pull the bolt back-slowly-then pick the round off the extractor. It will be sticking off at an angle and is easily removed. Then you put them in your pocket, one at a time.

Addition: If it means anything, I’ve had more rounds go to the ground when using a floor plate than removing them one at a time. NBD unless you have to go digging thru snow to get the round.

You do the same with a CRF as a PF. Actually you don't even need to go half way with the CRF. Once the cartridge is out of the mag and under the extractor claw just pull the bolt back and the ejector will release it. Just do it slowly so the cartridge isn't kicked out of the loading port.


By the way I have both CRF and PF rifles. I can live with both. Could probably warm up to a detachable mag as well.

All of my bolt action rifles which are repeaters have hinged or removable floorplates and most are just fine. However, a rifle with a blind magazine can be shaped to be much more comfortable in the hand.
For a friend of mine, I put together a 280, based on a Model 70 action, and it has a blind magazine. It is a very nice rifle to carry. The same guy has a couple of Kimbers, also with blind mags, which I really like.
If I decided to build myself a new hunting rifle, I would be inclined to build one with a blind magazine. In addition, a three round magazine would be just fine. This way, I could keep the rifle slim and shallow in the midsection so it would feel comfortable in my old, arthritic, hand. I always strive to get the balance right at the front guard screw, regardless of the overall weight. Whether or not the rifle has a blind magazine has little or no bearing on this since the weight is in the midsection anyway. The important thing, to me, is how comfortable the rifle is to carry and how easy to shoot. The blind mag can improve the former and has no influence on the latter. GD

Bill, a Brown Precision stocked M70 with a blind magazine will hold 4 down... regardless, 3 or 4 is plenty!

Would add, I genuinely dislike how McMillan offers a blind magazine profile on their M70 stocks... they're squared-off rather than rounded.

Yes sir...I was unpleasantly surprised on my first blind mag M70/MRC1999 order.

I like a blind mag on hunting rifles, especially lightweight rifles. I don't have a need to load/unload often....mainly just put one in the pipe/remove one from the pipe....no driving around for me. If feeding is good, I like blind mag.

I have recently moved a few BDL rifles (mainly Model Seven's) to detachable AICS mags. Lot's of options on bottom metal and mags now like the Curtis Custom and Ruger's 3 round that are very close to flush fit...actually on a squared off stock they feel better to me than a flush fit when carrying when my hand under the action. The biggest plus to me of the AICS mags/bottom metal is feeding.....especially for something like the .223AI. Someone really needs to create a flush fit AICS 223 mag with plenty of room for OAL.

Pro's/Con's both ways on all mag types. Choose what you like and put it to use.

Never really mattered to me.

Carl, theres really no issue with them except here in some states you are required to have an empty gun in your vehicle, or if it has a detachable mag, for that mag to be out. Unloading a blind mag continually is a pain in the ass...but I dont live in those states so I dont care.

All that said, I like a mag I can unload from the bottom...just seems handier..

Brad,
The most comfortable rifle, to carry in my hand, that I have, is an H&R Officers Model Springfield replica. Of course, being a single shot, the stock can be round and not deep. One time, when I was out looking for grouse, I was reflecting on how nice the old Winchester Model 67 was to carry and decided I should try to make one which felt kind of like that. I had a Sako single shot action with a 308 boltface so I barreled it in 260 and made a stock which was shaped, in the action area, sort of like that little 22. It is my most packable scoped rifle.
It became common practice among custom stock makers, to produce stocks with crisp lines and sharp edges. This included producing the little flat, sharply defined, around the bottom metal. It looks sharp and, if it is minimal and the the sides of the stock meet up with it smoothly, it can be OK. Sometimes, though, it just makes the rifle feel like you are carrying a board. GD

have several ADL's as well as 2 BDL's Rem 700's. Either way is fine by me. But what I really like and its just my personal preference is my Browning Abolt Medallion 7 mag that has a BDL style hinged floor plate but has a internal removal box magazine that mounts to the floor plate. "If" and it has never happened to me in 24 years of having that rifle, if the hinged floor plate were to happen to open while in the brush, the clip is actually snapped into the floor plate. It won't just fall out. I wish there was an after market BDL system like that for my 700, but I have yet to find it.

I own examples of both, but really prefer the blind magazine. It feels easier to carry and it doesn't dump your cartridges accidently. My latest blind mag rifle is a Winchester M70 pushfeed, manufactured in 2001.

How many of you have ever "accidently" hit the floorplate release button, and dumped the cartridges?

I've hunted with BDL style rifles for a long, long time, and never have.

I have hunted all My life, 34 years of deer hunting logging thousands of hours with BDL type bolt action rifles and never once dumped the magazine ...I am no big fan of blind mags and prefer a DBM (ala Tikka T3x) but most of my hunting rifles are Kimbers with blind mags so other features that I value more are in play here 👍........Hb

40 years of hunting and never had it happen on a M700 Classic.
Never had a bolt handle fall off a Remington 700 either.

I have two blind magazine rifles, both left handed Remington KS Mountain Rifles, one in 300 H&H and one in 375 H&H. Takes only a few seconds to unload in the manner previously mentioned. No need to fully chamber a round. I guess I've never been in such a big hurry that an extra 8-10 seconds to unload at the truck impacted my day, or my attitude.

I built a M700 with a PT&G Oberndorf bottom metal and that damn thing would pop open everytime...... I re-engineered it and it is mo betta now

I have, more than once, and I don't think I'm particularly clumsy either. Cold and gloves were factors.

That said, in order of preference I roll: 1) DBM 2) hinged floorplate, and 3) blind.

A floorplate that can be dumped without deliberately operating the release is poorly designed or adjusted, or has a weak spring. Same can be said for DBM releases like the Howa Mini, which is just cheap.

One of my sons had a Classic SS .270 with a floorplate that would pop open. He fixed it by cutting the notch for the latch a bit deeper.

Both my Mausers have the slide-off version with a little button. As long as you close it properly, it ain't going anywhere.

Yep had one of them too , mine would open upon shooting sometime. fixed it with a stronger spring.

Yup.

Lost 20 pounds last year before elk season. Those hills were a LOT easier to tame.

ADL is NOT about losing rifle weight for most of us...

Going to lighter boots, pants and long John's nets big dividends IMO and IME. I use to wear Danner Canadians exclusively and two years ago switched to a much lighter boot. Made a huge difference in the mountains with no downsides.
I've played quit a bit with light rifles and for me there are definite downsides to using them in the field.

The round does NOT have to be chambered to remove it from the magazine--that's one of the first things I taught my son with his ADL.

Amazing how many people haven't learned that........

Carl,

A rifle that fits your blind mag requirement in 308 Win is the NULA M-20. Light, accurate, expensive. But another option to consider.

I had one of the original Kimber Montanas (not the current model) in 308 Win and had no complaints about either carry weight or accuracy. Another one you might want to look for, lightly used.

BTW, I assume you’re not looking for an AK DGR. A good Rem M700 ADL would seem to fit your requirements for your hunting as well as anything that’s been recommended. Just my 2 cents.

I grew up shooting a tang ruger with hinged floor plate, so all my rifles since 1973 have been so equipped. I traded into an adl years ago but sold it quickly. Blind vs hinged is merely preference . They all work.

Have some of both. No disadvantage in the field for ADL. Either is fine with me.

ive had situation where the floorrplate didn't latch properly and gave way later on...mk-V Wby IIRC.
[my carelessness]..but still Any machine with more moving parts means more potential problems.




apart from the issue of balance [which is more about weight distribution], weight also effects other dynamics,

Harry Selby slimmed /lightened the stock on .416 Mauser to make the rifle more swingable
[reduced inertia] for the demand of fast-shooting situations
you know like where he could be called on to empty a full magbox on a 'sudden explosion of lions'...

I do know that when I went to a lighter synthetic stock on my Roys and carried 10x25 Leicas
instead of 10x42 Zeiss binos, I became somewhat happier.

Even just putting a heavier higher mounted Zeiss on my .270 Roy annoyed me cause it effected
the dynamics-handling and weight
, so went back to a lower lighter Leup. 2.5-8x ....smiles again.





Paying more for less, sound counter-intuitive, but the merits are there.