Which do you prefer for a youngster hunting for deer.... a 6.5cm in a Remington model 7HS or Remington 700 mountain rifle SS ...or a 243 in a Ruger M77 RSI or M77 ultra light? Or a Tikka superlight in either...

Which one recoils less....

.223 with the right bullets.

DF

Tikka superlite in 6.5cm hands down. Nothing wrong with a 243 though but Tikka will hold it value, it's super accurate, ammo availability is everywhere. I do believe there is a slight advantage to the 243 in recoil but will not be noticed when hunting.

243.

Get it with a 22" barrel.

Load an 80-ish grain bullet. No need to demoralize a youngster with recoil.

But I do agree a 223 could be even better, depending on the child.

Never shot a deer with a 6.5 but I bought an old rem model 7 youth with 20” barrel and loaded some 100 gr horn RN with a fairly mild load of H4895....couple of my buddy’s sons made their deer all fall over with it.

I also recently found a little Remington... I think LVF in 6.8SPC.... recoil is extremely mild. Shoots well under an inch. Probably going to have to see what the 115 fusions do on our tn white tails.

This, and it ain't even close.

I agree. I own and am very pleased.
If I had to start over with zero firearms, 6.5Creedmoor would be the only short action cartridge I would own.

HSM is loading reduced recoil 6.5Creedmoor, https://www.wholesalehunter.com/Product/Details/11308545?fs=1

I have 2 Tikka's in 6.5 , I load one in 120 bt, one in 140 bt, . You can load down with 120's and the recoil isn't much difference than my Savage 243 with 85 gr hpbt bullets. Believe it or not my Savage will out shoot all my Tikkas and Remingtons.
A Savage youth would also be a good option, actually that's what my buddy bought for his kids.
My daughter is only 100 lbs and shoots a Tikka compact in 7-08 loaded mild with RL15 and 120's. shoots it with no problem but I did start her out with a .223 with 55 gr barnes.

I love 243 but I think it needs good MV to work really well and don't like youth loads in it for deer.

My son used a supressed 7-08 with 120gr hornady soft points starting out at 2,400fps. It worked very well and his bucks didn't seem to go any further than with full power loads.

Of the two, I'd go 6.5 CM. Especially with the Rem vs Ruger options listed. Tikkas are all built on long action. Can't like that for SA cartridges.

243 for under 100 yards using a 85gr BTHP Sierra and 23gr of IMR4895 or H4895.

Of the two choices asked....243 with a 80ish grain bullet.

There is a noticeable difference in recoil between a 243 and 6.5 Creed to a CHILD or most LADIES. The fact that a 200+lb dude doesn’t feel they recoil is totally irrelevant to them. What you feel had zero bearing on what THEY feel.

I wrote this another forum. Of course the “my daddy said” types what read or understand any of it-



As an example and for comparisons because its like a broken record:

Guys love saying “no recoil”, “light recoil”, etc. For some reason they do not take into account the massive size, strength, and muscular differences between them and children (women too). If we compare common rounds that will be suggested for your daughter, and then adjust to what it would feel like to an average male (200lb, 5’8”) it becomes rather illuminating.

F-lbs recoil all in a 7 lb rifle (btw- that 7 pound “lightweight” rifle to your daughter is approximately a 35-40 pound rifle to you).

A 243 with Barnes 85gr to your daughter is about like a 300 Win mag with 200gr bullets to you.

A 260 with 130gr to your daughter, is approximately a 338 Win Mag with 250 grainers to you.

A 308 with 150’s to your daughter is a 458 win mag with 400 grain bullets to you.



Now, that is not exactly correct as a larger percentage of your daughters total weight is made up of organs, versus muscle mass and bone density. So in reality, it’s worse than the above.

Now how about a 223 with 77gr bullets? That’s like a 6.5 Creedmoor/260 to you.





There’s zero chance I’d be doing anything other than a fast twist 223 with good bullets. And there are .224 bullets that will kill, and do way more damage to deer than you will want.

243 with an 80 grain Sierra SPBT will kill deer just fine despite it having a Varmint bullet designation. Same with the Sierra Varminter 85 grain spitzer.

I have not personally used the boattail as my 6mm prefers the 85 grain SPT but my best bud has used the 80 with complete satisfaction on quite a few mature deer.

There is also the 80 grain Ballistic Tip. Look up some of Judmans posts on here. He is a fan of that BT.

Deer are pretty fragile despite what I have read on the net. Doesn't take much to kill one.

No idea on a 7-08 load. I have owned a couple but never killed any game with the. Can't imagine it works a lick better than a 243 on a 250# or less deer.

I know this wasn't on your list, but I have gone with the 6.5 Grendel for my daughter. She only ways ~ 60 lbs and can handle the recoil just fine which seems less than a .243.

I load my Model 700 6.5 CM full throttle with 140 grain bullets, and my Model 700 Youth 243 with the Sierra 85 HPBT for the grandkids. If there is any difference in the recoil, it is so slight as to be of little consequence. I'm also shooting a Model 7 Predator in 243 with a 90 grain Nosler BT, and can't see any difference between it and the 6.5.

My nephew has a 260Rem and my young cousin has a 243. I loaded both with light loads of IMR4198, 100gr Hornadys in the 260 and 85gr Sierra BTHPs in the 243. Both killed deer very well and the recoil difference between the two was negligible. That said, the 223 and good bullets is, IMO, the way to go, but the fathers of the boys I mentioned wouldn't go for such a puny round for deer.

Well I would take the Ruger over the Remington, but if the Ruger is a 243 and the Remington is a 6.5 I'd have to ask what the mission of the rifle will be.

If it's deer and nothing larger were on the list I'd go with the Ruger in 243. If someday he may want to shoot bear or elk the 6.5 is going to offer a heavier bullet that may be more in line with the tasks you'd ask of the rifle.

Also keep in mind that in future years, if larger game is on the list it's likely a larger rifle could be purchased too.

And then there is the option of just ordering the Ruger in the 6.5

I own both calibers but have killed more deer with a 243 than any other caliber I own. Not a notable difference in recoil to me. Either will kill deer just fine.

I would say depends on size and how young, but recoil and muzzleblast that is insignificant to experienced shooter can be significant to young and inexperienced. Personally, prefer to start with 243. Use the hornady lite loads if very new and move to full power loads once gets hang of it. Started my son that way and he has been slaying deer, pigs, pronghorn, whitetail, and recently mule deer with no problems.

Lou

7-08mm My girls first rifle at 12 Years old

Can you read?

After seeing Form's pictures of bullet wound channels, and then killing one myself with it, I'm pretty sold on the 77grain TMK in .223.

High RPM 223,with a scope that tracks...which means Fixed Fhuqker. Hint.

Tough to beat an M4 configuration there,though I obviously prefer turnbolt COAL latitudes and projectile advantages. Hint.

Kchuntis could almost afford the TG on her poor selection(pun be intended). ALMOST. Hint. Laughing!

Bless her heart for trying though!

Hint.

Laughing!.....................

there goes another thread

Kchuntis,

I'll feign my GREAT "surprise",that besides being a Brokedick CLUELESS Fhuqk,that you are also a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit. Didja' yet again "forget" about your "heralded" Imaginary Pretend Ignore? Hint. Congratulations?!? LAUGHING!

Are you making payments on the TG? Hint.

Bless your heart for crying.

Hint.

Laughing!..................

Thus far I've started 4 grandkids off with a 223. After they each killed at least 1 whitetail I moved them to a 243. Today I watched my 10 year old grandson shoot a m70 super grade (in 270 win) which I gave him a few months ago. He said it didn't kick too bad. His 3 older sisters probably won't go larger than the 243. They have no problem killing deer with it and we 100gr blue box ammo. For me, the 243 is perfect for kids. I have 8 more grandkids coming up. Same story for them, 223 to 243 then larger if they want to continue hunting.

If you are a handloader, you have another way to control recoil other than caliber. This is what I have done with my grandkids. Hodgdon shows reduced recoil loads on their website. Their approach is that you can load as little as 60% of the maximum H4895 load listed for a given bullet. By using this reduction in the amount of H4895 used along with some of the lighter bullets for caliber listed, you can reduce recoil drastically. There's a world of fine cartridges between the 223 and the 6.5. Pick the cartridge you want and fix recoil with the load.
Phil

hence my suggestion of the 7mm-08

120 bt and h4895 was my girl's training load and she will never outgrow it.

The 6.5CM was not around when I started my kids. So around here, of the two the OP stated, it would be a .243 Win with a 95gr NPT. I also handload, so, one grand daughter got started with a .270 Win shooting 110gr Accubonds at an accurate middle of the road speed.

I started my son on a 243 Savage, and when he got older, switched the barrel to a 308.

No regrets, but if there had been a 6.5 Creedmoor back then, I would have started at 243 and ended at 6.5 Creedmoor.

Youngster starting out on deer? To be true to your original post inquiry, 243. Why? It is an excellent deer rifle, even for full grown men. It also recoils considerably less than the 6.5 Creedmoor. Having said that, since the intended use for the rifle is deer, I will go out of your criteria and choose a .223. Others above have given good specs and reasons. I think a lot of us make a potentially huge mistake when we buy youngsters (size dependent of course) a higher recoiling rifle as long as it's in a youth stock and then, when they "grow into it", we can just get an adult sized stock. In my opinion, this is a mistake. Get them the less-recoiling rifle. As they grow, feel free to sell that to another parent with a youngster and move up in caliber if needed, assuming the youngster, though older now, can actually tolerate the recoil. Many grown men still, at times, use 223s for deer.

100 gr bullets with minimum powder charge in a .260 Model 7 give very, very light recoil and keeeeulll. I witnessed such a load using a Hornady bullet break both shoulder bones just above the elbow of a 120 lbish doe whitetail and the 7 yr old in my lap was unaware of recoil, for good reason. I expect the 6.5CM would perform similarly. Want to use heavier bullets later, no problem. But can deer tell the difference between a 95 gr .243 and a 100 gr 6.5 at minimum powder charge? Doubt it.

There is nothing wrong with a 243. With decent bullets I have no doubt it's capable. But the 6.5 just doesn't recoil that much more and it opens up a lot more possibilities later on. If you think 6.5 recoil is too much,then pass over 243 for 223.

True. As I posted in my earlier post, I cannot tell any difference between a 243 and 6.5 CM recoil wise. I'll also add that if anyone is recoil conscious, it is me. I was a skinny, boney shouldered 15 year old kid when I started hunting deer with my daddy's Remington 760 in 30-06, shooting 180 grain bullets. It would leave my shoulder black and blue, and because I didn't know anything about ear protection, my ears would ring for week. As a result, I have never liked shooting any gun that kicked, and it has been very hard on me over the years to keep from flinching. Today, although I have a pair of classic deer rifles in my safe, a 270 and a 7X57, and for 25 years the 270 was my go-to deer rifle, I no longer hunt with either. I can shoot better with either a 243 or the 6.5, and either one will kill a deer just fine.........regardless of whether you're 12 or almost 70 as I am. By the way, although the 223 will work just fine for deer, I would pick a 243 over a 223 any day of the week. It is just a better choice.

You’re not leaving a lot on the table with a fast twist .223 and the right 75 gr bullet.

Deadly. About the most killing power with the least recoil and blast.

DF

I won't disagree, but it's just hard for me to want to go with anything below the 243.........and I've killed deer with a 223 and a 22LR. As a matter of fact, I'm probably going to carry a 223 some this season myself.

.243 Win.

Get a rifle that fits the youngster,along with a good recoil pad,a recoil shield (for shooting off the bench) and light loads would be a good start.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3566

6.5 CM in a Tikka that has a stock that has been properly fitted for the child, and a threaded barrel with a brake.




Recipe for success as follows:

Get a T3 Lite (plastic stock) in 6.5 CM. with a threaded barrel

Buy a wood "take-off" stock.

Thread on a muzzle brake.

Remove the full size plastic stock on the rifle, set it aside for when the child grows into it.

Take the wood stock and cut it to proper length (including a flip flop pad) for the child, when he/she is wearing hunting clothes.

Have the child practice shooting, wearing both earplugs and muffs.

Top it with a good scope like an SWFA, that matches the terrain and hunting style, in quality rings and they are good to go.

They will then have a nice quality rifle that they can use as an adult.



The recoil from such a setup will be minimal. I did this setup with a .308 for my (at the time) sub 100 pound daughter, and she could not tell the difference between a .308 shooting regular 155 Scenars and a custom 6mm Rem T3. The recoil was never an issue. She eventually grew into the full size plastic stock, and the short wood stock was set aside for her younger sibling.

The more recoil the better! That way the kids will shoot a lot less! Saves bullets

Personally for the grandkids I'm useing a 223 tikka superlight that I shortened the stock, cut 2" off the barrel and mounted an SWFA 2.5X10X32 superlight on it.

I have them practice with a mild load and when we go hunting I slip in the hot loads with a 55 grain Barnes TTSX. When pulling the trigger aiming at a deer they don't notice the difference


Trystan

BTDT with several kids.

If your state allows, then a .223 just flat out works.

I never had an issue with the 243's or the 6mm Rem capability to quickly dispatch a deer from a wide range of angles. Did feel the velocity was a bit more than I cared for in terms of leaving behind more blood-shot meat than I may prefer. I have been using a bolt action 6.5 Grendel for the last 4 years to fine effect.

A Ruger American Ranch Rifle in 6.5 Grendel would probably make a great little rifle to start a youngster out with for deer hunting. An AR-15 in that caliber would work great too with a collapsible stock to adjust for their short length of pull.