I'm in the market for a mid-level (at least as I define it, anyway) bolt gun, walnut stock, blued. This will primarily be a deer rifle but might occasionally be called into service for other game (hogs, cow elk, etc). I've narrowed things down to three choices: Model 70 FW in 7mm-08; M77 Hawkeye Standard in 7mm-08; or, the wild card, a CZ 557 in 6.5 creedmoor. (I have a little stockpile of 6.5 ammo from a previous rifle.) I'm already sold on walnut, blued, calibers, brands, etc. (I.e., I've held Tikkas and Kimbers but not interested. Don't care for Weatherby triggers. Not planning to dump action in a new stock, etc. The guns are the guns and will be used as they come.) So here are my questions:

1. Aside from small differences in fit and finish, the main point of debate between the 70FW and M77 seems to be the open vs. closed trigger... with some people thinking the Ruger is better suited to rough conditions. Is this important enough to make any difference for 99% of real world hunting scenarios or is this way, way, way out in the weeds? Right now, I'm leaning 70FW, but I do need something that will hold up in freezing cold.

2. Does anyone have insight into the stock finishing process of the 70FW vs. the M77? I realize wood is going to be wood when the weather is bad, but I do think differences in sealing could be important?

3. I have zero experience with CZ-American rifles. I'm not tied to controlled or push feed. The 557 looks like a classic but for whatever reason I'm having a hard time convincing myself it should cost the same as the Winchester or the Ruger, even with a slightly longer barrel. (And especially when they make you buy their $80 rings on top of it all.) Thoughts on this one? (Would anyone happen to know if the detachable mag is metal or polymer? I'm not a big fan of plastic on a rifle costing more than $400-500.)

Thanks very much for the help!

In my biased opinion,buy the M 70 Featherweight and go kill game with it.

A fixed 4x or 6x or a 2-7x variable scope would also be my choice.

I have always been a huge Ruger fan. The Hawkeyes are built hell for stout. The FW will feel better in the hand, will be more refined, will be less likely to be defective, will likely be more accurate and won't gouge the ever loving piss out of your brass.

Pick the one you like best. I'm a Model 70 fan all the way, but in this case, you pick. But look at the good side, at least you din't have a 700 in the mix...

I’d go w/ the M70 FW every time no questions asked. It’s just right to me; Ruger is too heavy for what you get.

Kimber and Tikka are both too light...

I have a Mk II that certainly does that. Is that typical for their bolt action? (roll call here) At least you know what brass goes with what rifle.

The Winchester will have a smoother cycling action by a large margin.

It's not uncommon but it is easy to fix if you're not a total retard. They do tend to be rough in the feed ramp, underside of the feed rails and sometimes the edge of the chamber. A few minutes polishing in the right places and they're golden.

Model 70 FW

Rogers have always been rough as hell IMO.
The open trigger debate is much ado about nothing.

A FW that doesn’t say “Portugal” on it is what I’d choose

For sure.

Thanks for all the replies. I've been leaning Winchester and seem further in that direction now. I will say, though, that I have another FW (bought before I knew anything about the open vs. closed trigger debate ) that was made in Portugal and the fit/finish is immaculate.

The CZ is still intriguing, but likely out now. I just can't stomach being forced to spend $80 on rings without any options other than CZ's.

I’d agree with these guys

Have you considered an xbolt hunter?

It's apparent from your post you know more than 90% of the group. I have both and would flip a coin given the same chambering in both.

Geo

Had a Ruger m77 now own 4 push feed model 70s look no further

My two Hawkeye series shred it. Especially the Predator 6.6 Creedpuff. My 77 M2 doesn't.

I really like the blueing in the Rugers. Are we talking new guns here?
Walnut blued Id pick ruger. Stainless, I’d pick Winchester.

Yes, brand new.

No, haven't really looked at the Browning. How are the triggers?

I like Hawkeyes, but I find that the placement of the safety and bolt handle are ergonomically far superior in Winchester 70's (and Kimbers, although they weren't on the list).

Welcome to the Campfire. I really like my Browning X-Bolt. Good trigger, easy to adjust or just drop in a spring from Ernie the Gunsmith. I like the ergos of the stock too.

Thanks for the info. How solid is the mag? (I.e. is it plastic?)

Which ever one you choose, set aside a few dollars to get it glass bedded and free floated.

Thank me later.


Okie John

Already done on the new M70

Have handled a few Winchesters but never owned one. Have a safe full of Ruger M77, MKII and Hawkeye rifles and love them. Only one leaves marks on the brass, the M77 7mm RM I bought in 1982. It leaves a tiny scratch near the belt that tells me how many times a case has been cycled through the rifle. I suppose i could fix it but I find it handy when determining case life.

If you get a Ruger, the first thing I would do is float the barrel and reseal the channel. I do that to mine and haven't found bedding necessary o get good accuracy. I did bed one just for the experience, but keeping the screws torqued correctly has been enough. (Angled screw very tight, rear tight and middle just tight enough to keep it from backing out.)

I'd float the barrels on all my rifles if they don't come that way and would do the Winchester, too, and would probably bed it as well.

I'd buy the Winchester just because eI've never had one.

Buy the one that feels best in your hands. I examined a 557 not long ago, and it's NOT a replacement for a 550 in my mind, though it may shoot just fine.

I like the Hawkeyes a lot, but the M70s look better. Don't GAF about the "Made in Portugal" business since the last I read on that is that they're assembled in Portugal with American-made barreled actions and the same Portugese made stocks that the SC FN ones also wore. Other Brownings, including transitional A5s (pre-Japanese) were also assembled there, and so marked. FN builds stuff all over, wherever it makes economic sense, and Terry Wieland, who wrote the last review of one I've seen, said it was the best-made he's seen. Personal preference, so do what makes you all tingly.

The Winchester for its overall better quality, especially if it is a Portugal gun.

When the first 77s came out, one reviewer took one out of the stock between firing shots for a group. The result was respectable. Maybe a torque driver, uncommon at that time (for shooters anyway) might have helped tighten that up a bit, but still it demonstrated that the design was sound. My main complaint with current Hawkeyes is that the ejector position makes using my Hornady OAL tool a pain. The lack of an undercut where the extractor rides on the bolt is another minor quibble with lovers of "real" Mausers, but no biggy for me. Two regualr Hawkeye AWs have had pefectly usable, crisp triggers as-is, and the two-stage on a Predator is really sweet.

Not surprisingly, I applaud your choice of chambering; the 7-08 is very versatile across the range of uses you are planning for.

I really like the M70 FWT because of the contour of the barrel. The lack of the shank takes out a bunch of weight from the barrel w/out making it whippy. Everyone is correct that the Ruger is hellforstout, but I don't think you really need the extra weight that is the flip side of that equation.

I would prowl Cabelas or Sportsmans Warehouse until I found a M70 with wood I liked. Then I would inspect the metal work for any flaws or bobbles (are the screw holes true and does the crown look good?), metal to wood fit, and basic safety/trigger function. It it passed that test, I would buy it and a box of factory ammo and take it out to my truck and test for smooth feeding from the magazine (hopefully without shooting my truck). If it didn't feed well, then I would take it right back in for a refund. Those are about all the things you can check for without firing it.

And those, by the way, are things I would do regardless of the brand of rifle I am buying. No way am I letting them go into the back and bring me a boxed up rifle and buying it without some diligent QC inspection.

Since the Stainless FWT rifles are back, this would be my pick.

I agree on the OAL gage interference. A little irritating but still workable.

Of the guns discussed...I have an M77 Hawkeye SS 7-08 and Browning X-Bolt Hunter in .243.

I love(d) my XBolt but I would stay away from them due to the lack of magazine reliability. I have three magazines for my .243 and the first magazine has stopped feeding the second round reliably because the follower drags. I took the mag apart and cleaned it very well, but the follower is still having issues.

Pappy - what didn't you like about the 557? I'll admit that I wish the creedmoor had a metal floor, but that's just me thinking a $700+ gun shouldn't have plastic parts and the CZ's mag is metal but with a polymer bottom. I saw a review where the guy took out the action, etc., and I was surprised at how well put together it looked. The recoil lug was fit for a tank. I can't really put my finger on why, but I like the look of the walnut 557. I don't mind it being a push-feed and the shroud/guard both seemed to be decent metal (unlike a Tikka).

I also like the look of the B-14 Woodsman, but I've read quite a few reviews about the firing pin having issues that lead to a bolt shroud blasting back into your face... which I'd prefer to avoid. But again, metal floor and guard. Just seem like what a mid-level rifle should have.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I prefer the Hawkeye. I've had a couple of Hawkeyes (a FTW Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor and a regular stainless 7mm-08). I still have the 7mm-08. I also had (and since sold) a M70 Featherweight from ~ 2012 in .257 Roberts.

I prefer the Hawkeye trigger, which can be made very good with a new spring and about 20 minutes of polishing work.

It's only 3 rifles, but my two Hawkeyes have been more accurate than my one M70 Featherweight.

Can’t go wrong either way IMHO. I’ve got both and like em both. Walk a lot while hunting, get the Winchester. Tree stand gun, get the Ruger.

Ok. New contender in the mix. Anyone used one yet?

https://ruger.com/products/HawkeyeHunter/specSheets/57104.html

I would go with the Hawkeye .My 2 cents

No, but I'm an admirer, just not in the market.

Wish they'd offer tge two-stage trigger on more models, or as an option or just for sale.

Mainly that it's not a 550. Don't like plastic on wood and steel guns either. I'll willingly pay more for traditional construction when it's on a "nice" rifle. I willingly admit that I'm a fussy old fart about some stuff. I wouldn't kick too much about the bottom of a DM, though. No doubt they're good rifles, just not quite to MY taste.

Speaking of Bergara, a few weeks back a guy at my range had one that sheared off the shroud, just in normal use. Didn't get to look to close, but seemed like it might be a MIM'd part. Don't like that crap either anywhere it might be a danger, like auto-pistol slide-stops for instance (Kahr economy line and at least some Kimber 1911s). Somewhere I read that MIM parts have 95% of the strength of "real" metal, and Kahr makes their MIM slide-stops larger than the machined ones, but that doesn't address the possibility of voids in the part, like the rear sight that sheared off on a Kimber Target II I bought my son when he graduated from college.

I have owned M70's all my hunting life and they have a special place in my heart. Go to some gun shows and handle some of the pre 64's and get a feel for them...this will get into your mind and might help you a little when you handle others out there. Last one I bought was a 243 in the stainless that came out of the SC factory by FN, and it stacks up with the older Classics that were built in the 90's that came out of New Haven, Conn. I am probably going to buy a 6.5 CM in the M70 that is now made or assembled in Portugal and the review by Terry Wieland was the best-made he had seen. The Model 70 for some has to grow on you, but like the Ruger it is one fine gun too, but I do feel the fit and craftsmanship goes to the M70. I have a M70 in stainless that was made in early 80's in a 308 that will shoot anything you feed it, and wouldn't trade/sell anything for it. I just like the 3 position safety and controlled round feed of the Winchester, and like I said, they will probably have to grow on you, but once you own one, you will be sold. Sorry I am a little late on this one, but hope this helps you decide. Have a blessed New Year.

Winchester all the way. They just work and feel right. After owning lots of rifles over the years, the hunting rifles in my safe are all Winchester Model 70’s.

Well, except for the AR’s.....

My choice would be the M70, though I am also a big fan of all my tang safety M77's. As others have stated, choose the one that feels best in your hands. You can't go wrong with either one.

Just a bit curious...why the aversion for Portgese M70's. I have two FN 70 Featherweights made in SC and in my opinion, they are some of the best built M70's I've ever handled. Is FN's QC lacking over there? If it's because they're manufactured off shore, I understand that completely. Just trying to understand what the issue is. Thanks.

Winchester..I'd rather not have a cheaply cast action that requires someone to beat on it with a mallet to straighten it as is required of a Ruger.

M70FW. I like the older 80's push feed models. If it doesn't shoot well, have a #2 Shilen put on it. I never had an issue with a closed trigger of any kind.

The closed trigger "issue" is mostly fantasy land.

Redneck sold me on the Trigger Tech Primary. They deliberately put gunk, debris in theirs in testing and it still worked swell. But I can't say I ever had a rifle that got that filthy, not the way my dad raised me, ha. Later on, as a soldier in Germany, learning how to keep an M16 running while living in snow/freezing conditions was a challenge, but we did it. At that time, whenever you were training near the Border, you acted like the "Mad Czechs" ( surrogates of the "Mad Russians") were going to come streaming over, so you just stayed , well, "ready". I also kept a functioning M60 close at hand

I have a model 70 featherweight in 7-08. Absolutely love it. very accurate and fits me well. I had a model 77 in 3006. very good gun but the bolt hit my trigger finger whenever I fired it and i didn't like the safety, it was too small for gloved hands , other than that a good rifle. I prefer the model 70 even the made in portugal ones.

My two cents; buy the Ruger! It’s all American made and assembled, and the money all stays in the U.S. and, they are damn fine rifles! I know a lot of others don’t agree, but that’s how I feel about the issue, FWIW. That said, it’s your money, spend it like you want. So will I.

How about a Bergara? About the same price, better trigger, better barrels, super accurate right out of the box and if you watch some very nice wood stocks.

Been contemplating selling this one in 6.5CM, PM me if it is something you may be interested in.

Thanks but too late! Went M70FWSS. I liked the look of the Bergara but read so much about firing pin issues and I already had a M70 FW in 708, so I went known quantity.

The Winchester Featherweight is one of the classiest rifles ever produced., congrats.

FWIW: I know of around 1/2 dozen guys with B-14's, none have ever had an issue with firing pins. Actually have not heard of any issues with any of them at all.

Now you have.
My Woodsman in 7-08 had an accuracy issue. I sent it back and they corrected the situation, but it took them over 8 weeks to do so. They couldn't find a replacement in their inventory that would pass either. Finally, they were able to get one to shoot. The replacement rifle and the original both have the barrels skewed way to the left of center in the barrel channels. Shoddy build and poor QC.

Sorry to hear that, my barrel lays right down the middle. Nicely spaced on each side, floated and pillar bedded from the factory. Have shot enough groups in the 1/2" or under range to make me think it's pretty dang accurate. I find the overall build and QC much better than the last couple of 700's that I owned. I'd buy another one if I were in the market.