In Tennessee we can shoot until 30 minutes after sundown but lights and NV not legal.

And I'm not talking about shooting deer in a field at last legal right in your state; rather a rig for deep woods on overcast afternoons until at least sundown.

Seems a lot darker in the Swamp than it used to be even 10 years ago, so my age is probably a factor. I've let several bucks walk in the past few years when it got way to dark and blurry to take an ethical shot.

Oh yeah, shots less than 100 yards.

Wondering if any of y'all had put together a rig for those conditions and how it worked.

My thinking is get a European 8x56 and put it on a bigger-than-.30-caliber with Barnes-type bullets to ensure two large holes to bleed from if high shoulder shot isn't possible. Thinking .358 or .45-70 at this point.

Thoughts, photos or anecdotes appreciated.

Dunno the cartridge choice is a solution, but you might do well with an illuminated reticle or red dot sight.

Was perusing and saw some makers offer IR dots on crosshairs. The Docter 8x56 doesn't have one but it's also only one under a grand.

I'm mainly want that 7mm exit pupil to let me see branches and thread bullets through.

Trijicon Accupower 2.5-10x56, set at 8x or under, will give you 7mm exit pupil and an aluminated reticle for about $800 or less. I honestly wouldn’t worry about needing a bigger caliber. I’ve used the 130gr TTSX in a 308 and they leave big exits. I bet the same for a 7mm-08 and 120s.

I have a Remington model 7 in 308 for just such events. I had the factory skinny barrel screwed off and put on a sporter contour and had it cut to 21".

Meopro 6x42 with a #1 reticle. You can see it easily 30 minutes after in the swamp.

Nice.

I've got a little .358 on a M7 with a 21" Douglas #3 that's much the same. Used a 6x42 Heavy Duplex in it for years. The Meopro/Nazi 1 would be hard to beat.

I like your rig there GH. I have had several Model 7s and "upgraded" them to sporter weight barrels! I am tall, and usually kept them 24" though. I am going to try a Ruger 77 338RCM 20" for a shorty, see how I like it. I've has good results with the Leupold 1.5x5; 2x7, 1x4 in SE Texas thickets.

Not sure why the need for .35 or .45 in your neck of the woods. A 308 Win or 7-08 Rem sporting a good scope, possibly utilizing a scout scope setup, which is ideal inside 200 yards for quick shots on stationary or moving game seems a much better choice in timber. The 308 Win utilizing 150 gr loads up to 200 gr loads is quite the versatile beast.

Yeah, a 130gr TTSX from a 308 doing 3100fps, knocks the WET right off them.

Which reminds me, I still need to cut down a tree to recover one that went through a deer a few years ago.

Gooch,

I'll check out that Trijicon vs the Docter for sure and other variables with objectives bigger than 50 and prices south of a grand.

I've had a couple of 20" .308 rifles for this role, one with a Trijicon Accu-Point and the other with a Leupold VX-R. Both were effective for making those last few minutes count.

Seriously, check out the Meopro 6x42 with either NAZI reticle, 1 or 4.

I’ve got several set up just for such use....but I’d recommend staying away from red dots and scout setups for low light use. Neither does well for hunting your stated scenario....they’ll go dark before your naked eye does, most likely. I’ve used 2-7 and 3-9 VX-Rs, 1-4 Trijicon, illuminated full field E1, Leupold 1-4 w/German #1, 6x42s, 56mm stuff, etc.

A few thoughts: I have not found the 6 plus power, large objective to be any advantage in low light <150yd, woods/swamp hunting. Fields, cut overs? Sure. Good glass and 5+ exit pupil and 3-6x is more than enough. Much more than 4x fades out limbs and vines in between (for me), and your holes turn out to not be holes. Some illum and tritium isn’t dim enough, and hurts rather than helps, sometimes. Heavier bullets that penetrate in a worse case scenario (limb, bad angle, etc) don’t hurt. Before anyone misconstrues: not talking about ‘brush busting’, but I’ve nipped a limb or vine I didn’t see on occasion, and still hit the deer. Penetration and two holes help there, and a lighter bullet doesn’t likely have the ass of the heavier bullet once deformed any. Can’t ‘know’ any of that. Just what I’ve seen. I often use a 357 max with 180-200gr SP or WFNGC cast lead, in a 16” encore with a 2-7 Terra or 1-4 VX2 w/G1....heavy reticles seem to do just as good or better than illum. Maneuverability for awkward positions to shoot through a hole is often a thing. I do the same thing with other, smaller bores just fine most times, but there’s some variables once it starts gloaming in the timber. No ‘expertise’. Just experiences.

Can’t quite understand why you would spend the kind of funding a good 50mm objective scope would cost to shoot approximately 100 yards. Most 50mm scopes start at 5x and many start at 10x. The purpose would be to take full advantage at long distances to utilize that magnification, i.e., 400, 500, 600 yards. Having a large objective lens with higher magnification does not render greater light gathering to the eye. Exit pupil, your eyes ability to capture light is based on objective lens and power with the greater number offering more light to the eye. Your 50mm on 5x gives an exit pupil of 10mm and not really a great field of view at 100 yards. By the same comparison a 2x-7x-33mm will provide an exit pupil of 16.5mm, quite a bit more than the 50mm. Even set at 3x it provides an exit pupil of 11mm. Whether set at 2x or 3x that is plenty out to 200 yards with greater field of view than a 50mm objective lens. No offense but would not achieve more light gathering capability to your eye and would be spending a great deal more money than necessary for your stated hunting condition.

An exit pupil over 7mm is probably of no benefit. Given a usable exit pupil and the same quality glass, magnification will help see more details and the image will appear brighter. You'll be missing a lot more detail at 100 yards in low light with a 2x and 16.5 mm exit pupil than you will with an 8x and 7mm exit pupil.

I wanted a really bright scope with good illumination for my AR and went thru a Trijicon 2.5-10x56 with a post reticle and a Docter Clissic 3-12x56 with a #1 reticle and just bought a Schmidt and Bender 3-12x50 with a L3 reticle.

The Docter wasn't illuminated, if the Docter had the Trijicon illumination I would have stopped right there. Bobby ended up with the Docter and rated it right with a S&B.Watch the eye relief on the Docter's if that's a burden to you. I like the Docter's, I have a 6x42 with a A7 reticle in inventory in case I get a rifle it will work on.

While you see more detail at 100 yards with something like an 8x56, you’ll see less detail between the muzzle and 100 yards. In the timber, those detail in between sometimes matter more than counting eyelashes at 100.

At least for me, that’s been true. Not saying that more is the wrong choice, either....just be aware that more magnification looks through more little stuff up close, and you have to account for it. If you’re talking variable 2-10x56 or such, you can accommodate for that easily. I’ve traded some loss at range for reticle and depth, and using smaller scopes, but that’s my eyes. I’d still run a 6x or 8x on a pure stand rifle and not lose sleep over it.

ha, Dan when I read the Title, YOU immediately came to mind.
You were the First respondent.

Jerry

Just picked up a BLR in .358. I believe the 1.5-6x42 meo with the German 4 will work for the same purpose as mentioned.

^^^^Very similar to what I’ve hunted for years...those and a Marlin in 356 W, but bowed out of the bigger 35s a while back.

Whiskey, I have a different opinion. 90% of what I hunt is deep hardwoods where it can almost block out the sun. So low light for me needs to be #1. I picked up the new Meopta Optika 6 in 3-18x56 with #4 illumination and I can say that the illuminated dot is fantastic. The lowest setting is so low that is is visible in low light but doesn't overpower your pupil to create blindness. The highest setting is daylight bright but that's not what I wanted it for. I need the low light of the 56mm and illumination. There was a non-shooter 6 pt eating acorns approx 50 yards away. It go so late that I could see the deer clear as day through the optic, however I couldn't see it with the naked eye. I decided to turn on the illumination on lowest setting to see how it would do. I continued to watch that deer following it with the red dot for a while until my son was wondering if I was ok because I didn't return to my Ranger just yet. The only thing I didn't do is look at my watch to see how long past legal shooting (here in Louisiana) it was. But I can tell, I continues to wath that deer until I got off stand. Some illumination dots are too big and too bright thus over power the reticle and your eyes and basically make the useless. I think the meopta optic I have hit it out the park. Plus the 18x gives me the option to hunt my newphews place where shots can be 300-400 plus.

oh and mines mounted on a Tikka T3 lite .308

This describes hunting in 90% of western Washington, 90% of the time. We usually have heavy overcast during hunting season and it’s usually raining, so all of my rifles are set up for this. For years I used a Leupold 4x with a standard reticle. I never felt that I missed an opportunity because of the glass, but I came close during a Roosevelt elk hunt (story here: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11623852/First_Elk,_First_Roosevelt) so I switched to a Leupold VX-R 3-9x40 with the Ballistic Firedot reticle (details here: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...inated-leupold-scope-for-cz550-in-375h-h).

That’s my setup for now, but I really want Nightforce to start making their fixed 4.5 with an illuminated Forceplex reticle.

As for cartridge, anything from 308 Winchester on up should be fine. Not sure that I'd go with a mono because I'd want something that I know will expand on a lung shot and the monos tend to need bone for best performance. Honestly, the 8x57 Mauser would be a strong choice. It has plenty of diameter, velocity with US factory ammo is about perfect for shots inside of 100 yards, and there are a zillion ultra-cheap 98 Mausers out there for a base rifle.


Okie John

That would be an interesting scope. I like fixed powers...prefer a 6x42 but the 4.5 would be pretty sweet.

I'd like to see the illuminated Forceplex in their NXS 2.5-10 line. The ability to set the illumination very low in the NXS line is much better in low light than the SHV 3-10 and NX8 1-8 in my experience....of course the NX8 1-8 wasn't designed with the idea of low light use.

We aren’t saying anything really different. My comments were geared more to the fixed 6-8x 42/56 as ‘ideal’. I also wasn’t addressing versatility needs for hunting long, outside the timber. I’ve hunted several different parts of LA....swamp, timber, and field. You don’t say what magnification you used during that encounter, but I’d venture it wasn’t above 6x. I’ve done the same thing on many occasions, and inside 100 yards, the huge objectives did nothing for light, at the magnification practical/useful, that any of my other scopes would do....that I could tell, at all. Open areas, 6-10xx50-56 has sometimes given me detection and ID a little farther out, but we are still talking around only 50-100 yards more.....and bright binos can’t be overlooked, either. It’s good that particular illum goes low enough. I have a few that do, also. If I was limited to picking one gun to go hunt all situations, and the OP was asking that, bigger scopes would come into play, and I like great glass and brightness as much as anyone. My timber only guns just don’t need big glass or much magnification to be plenty bright and work far past legal hours, inside 150. Reticles are far more important.

Can’t recall if this was a 2-7 or 3-9 VX-R on my 356/358 ‘Edge’ rifle....but it was for hunting in dark timber and overgrown edges and new stand, etc. worked well.....it worked fine close and dark, but could connect on out, if needed.

As a European I have some experience. Woods lowlight is hard on optics.

Light transmission, objective size, magnification, reticle brightness are key but its a higher risk proposition and my dog has saved my ass a couple of times.

My experience is that 95/96% light transmission makes a noticeable difference, higher mag brings increased twilight factor which matters more to my eyes than exit pupil and critically the illuminated reticle must go down to nearly nothing to avoid overpowering the eye.

7-08 or 308 is fine for me and a can helps remove muzzle flash plus helps hear where it runs too

I wonder if the ability of the vender with AR coatings makes any difference? I wonder if a 42 mm with Zeiss AR coatings would out perform a 56mm meopta?

I was thinking of a dedicated deep, dark woods at the edge of night rifle. A specialty rig not a generalist, fellow gacksters.

I was thinking about using larger/homogenous bullets two gaping wounds to bleed freely for trailing , not punch brush based on experience.

Have had 300 grain .45/70 JHPs stopped by hide offside on close range deer; and had 270 grain .375 H&H tumble and hit buck sideways at 75 yards after hitting half-inch branch en route. Those animals were found fairly soon because they were shot near sunrise.

Always been kind of a lukewarm optics person, but I'm starting to study the science more thanks to you more learned posters.

Keep 'em coming.

FWIW, a 357/358 cast in 180 on up, running 2000-2500, doesn’t seem to want to stop going, either. Saw an incident where a 200 went through a field deer (in LA) at 75 yards, then traveled another 75 yards, passed through 20ft of privet screen, entered and exited another (unseen) deer, killing both. Pure chance we even discovered there was a second deer. If you can go big on glass, it certainly cannot hurt in low light. How much it might help is variable. Then it’s down to reticles. If you can shoot bigger bores, it can’t hurt.