Was wondering if anyone has any experience with this round on Fox and Coyotes. It seems like we're getting more fox around here and wanted something that'll pull double duty and work for both critters. Obviously its not the best caliber for Yotes but I think sub 250 yards it'd be fine. Anyone have real experience with a bullet that'll work for both in terms of saving pelts/terminal performance? I hear good things about the 30 grain Texas golds but don't think there available anymore. Is there another .17 cal 25-30 grain non-tipped bullet still available?

There's the 25 grain Berger, accurate but has a poor bc, works in 10 twist barrel. The 25 VMAX requires a 9 twist but has a good bc and is also accurate. Wish we could get hold of 30 grain .17's with a good bc for out past 300 yards.

The 25 gr Vmax is what I shoot out of mine. It has a 9 twist barrel though per above. Shoots in the 1/2 moa range in mine and I’ve dumped a couple of coyotes with it. It’s really not far off the heels of my 17 Remington in terms of velocity either. It’ll go further than 250 yards for a coyote too.

The ultimate bobcat/fox caliber. You won't even tell they've been shot unless you hit bone and even then sometimes no damage.
BC on this caliber is irrelevant. If it's a cdl sf or model 7, you lucked out.

the problem is none of the bullets that work very well are made anymore. the best from what I have heard is the 25 grain berger match. I have killed 8 coyotes with 20 grain vmaxes. not really intentionally just it was the gun that was handy and in my hands. it worked but never dumped them on the spot and about half needed a second shot. I have some 25 grain hornady hp's no longer made but that is my bullet that I think would work the best that I have on hand.

to close to the truth.

I doubt Nagel bullets are available any more. I have had good luck with Hornady spire points & 30 grain bergers. Not sure what distances you are thinking though I might consider an all copper bullet like the Hammer offerings in todays market.

25 gr Vmax in my .17 Rem...loaded down to around 3600-3700 fps is the shizz on fox and bobcats, VERY fur friendly. I like a bit more horsepower for coyotes personally, but it has been made to work. A sample...

I shot both a coyote and a fox with my 17FB. The coyote was quartering to me at about 200yds IIRC. I tucked the 20gr VMax inside the onside shoulder. It bucked like a bronc and then rolled down the ravine it came out of. 17 caliber entry, no exit. I shot the fox at 70yds broadside, just behind the shoulder. Same bullet, 17 caliber entry hole, exit was somewhere between a dime and a nickel. No problem sewing.

I would still have that Remington Model 7 Predator, but I had become a huge Kimber, three position safety fan. I sold it and had a Kimber 84M Montana rebarreled in 17Remington which I thought would be more likely to feed properly with no modification, than the shorter 17FB.

I calculated my max range by the energy my 22-250 had at my furthest shot on a coyote which was about 450yds. For the 17FB, that max range was 200-225yds. Add about 30yds to that range for the 17Remington.

Thanks for the replies everyone, guess the hard part is just finding the right bullets. Wish Hornady still made a 25 grain lead tip over the v-max

Every time I read one of these .221 Fireball cartridge derivative threads I seethe a little because the original .221 Fireball cartridge gets so little respect. It is like the the Rodney Dangerfield of cartridges and for no reason because it is a great cartridge. Locally .17 Fireball and .300 Blackout factory loaded stuff is everywhere and guys have wildcatted it up and down, yet a .221 Fireball cartridge or mention is non-existent.

I have had a few 17 Mach 4 and 17 fireballs. I always used the 25gr bullets, the Berger Match and Hornady HP's. Both worked great for me. But they are hard to find now. Luckily I still have enough to burn up a barrel or two. Getting ready to have a short chambered 17 rem built on a Howa mini.

that is really not hard to figure out why that is. just down load a 223 or shoot a 223 from a short barrel to duplicate a 221. the 17 FB is a flat out amazing little unit. it kills way beyond what you think, Recoil is about like a 22 LR when you run it suppressed. I have took varmints to beyond 350 yards with mine. it launches 20's in excess of 4100 fps. It will flat out explode starlings and flying vermin. I have seen people see me shoot mine and after a just right hit on a varmint, howl in shock and disbelief at the traumatic effect it had. add that much speed to a very fragile bullet like the 20 grain vmax and it has true grenade effect.

I’ve shot both fox and coyote with the .17 Fireball. I’ve had great results with 20 g v-max on fox. For coyotes, you have to stay off the shoulder bone with the v-max or you’ ll probably have a runner.

I don’t have a 17FB but have shot a fair amount of varmints with 17 Rem. 20 vmax has been terrible for me on coyotes. Usually “splashes” and blows a rather large hole on entrance. Probably shot 8-10 with it and finally just gave up. Never a bang flop and always had runners. Shot a few with the 25vmax and it seems much much better. Have called a few bobcats and foxes in and killed them all bang flop and zero fur damage so I ordered 500 25vmax. Hope they continue to be as good as I think they are.

I’ve shot a few coyotes with the 17 fb, using 25 grain Berger’s. It killed them, but generally not on the spot. I much prefer more horsepower on coyotes.

17 mach-4 always been good on coon and fox but little week for coyotes less they under 100- 150. 221 f.b. sweet round for fox/coyotes out to about 200 yards. Both lost out due to another cartridge being better.

The first rifle I built was a 17 Fireball. After much research it seemed to be the ticket for efficiency and speed. I screwed up the first barrel in the threading process set that barrel aside and started over. The resulting rifle spits 20 grain Noslers with amazing accuracy and has taken thousands of Prairie Dogs. The barrel I set aside was eventually used on a smaller action (Zastava M85) and still in 17 Fireball. Killed 3 coyotes on my place at 50 to 100 yards and they were DRT. So this year I decided to park my 788 222 that I use for night hunting and give the M85 the reins. Killed 8 yotes in October with it but midstream switched from Berger 25HP to 25Vmax. The Bergers just did not seem to anchor them like on the spot.

Was reading this thread this week and happened to be be retracing my steps in load development with the Vmax in the M85. Finally got it back to sub 1/2" now all I need is some colder weather to get the yotes moving again.

I have all the makings for a .221 FB build and since I really don't need another Prairie Dog rifle, I'm thinking I'll build the .221 light enough to carry and will ultimately use it for yotes at night. There are some dandy light weight bullets in 22cal so it should be fun. I'm not trying to save the fur but I am trying not to wake the dead at night blasting off high capacity charges. I have not jumped on the suppressor wagon yet but that's probably next.

If your still looking Blackhole may have something to fit your needs. Not , cheap but what is now days.

Just gonna count and paste from one of my other rposts but the KAK 17-5.56 might be something to look at

So I've been pretty bummed trying to figure out how I could go about having a low cost .17cal center fire. Wanted to build my own on an AR platform but custom barrels,brass and and other stuff have been getting irritated. Sorry but for something I want just kinda like a play around gun ( I got everything I need already twice over I juat like playing with stuff) I can't see myself dropping $1500 on a custom/semi custom deal. And as I've posted before .17rem fire ball and the like brass is just a friggen pain to find or even find the parent brass to form. Big thanks to the guys who offered me some of I went and got one though. Well like my prayers where answer this just popped up on my 50th something search. I know these guys make some nice off the wall AR stuff like a 300wsm and 358win upper and this looks like it might be the answers to my prayers !!
Barrels are only $200 too !
Now before someone wants to say something about 17-223 please show me who's making affordable barrels and dies you can buy right now, I'll wait because I haven't seen anything since 2019. With this legit all your doing is taking cheap easy to find .5.56 brass and running it up in their die and boom ready to load. Now apparently from chatting a little with KAK ( nice folks) they have re worked some stuff with their reamer design and apparently have fixed a few problems the .17 rem and 17-223 have had relating to donuts neck turning and some other stuff







So idk looks pretty promising, hoping to have a barrel and dies in by February to re build a old upper with if every thing goes good.

[video:youtube][/video

I found this thread pretty interesting. Got me to do some QT down range calculation between 3 cartridges.

I had a 17FB for a little while. I only shot a total of 3 coyotes with it and all 3 shot with the Hornady 25gr hp.

Ironically 2 of them were pretty far shots, at least for the 17fb.

The first yote I shot was working her way downwind and had no choice but to stop her and take the shot before she got downwind. 325 yds straight on shot in the chest. It stumbled about 20 yards and fell over.

The second yote was out the truck window as a couple were running away through the pasture. I barked and the last one stopped to look back. Guessed holdover as I had no clue what the range was and let it rip on a broadside shot. She spun in circles for about 5 seconds and fell over. Rangefinder confirmed it was just shy of 400yds but a lucky shot to the heart put her down pretty fast.

3rd yote (big male) came right into the call and shot at about 70 yards broadside but I shot just a smidge too far back. It ran about 50 yards and fell over.

Overall I was pretty impressed with its performance.

I ended up selling that rifle regretfully but I actually just found another and should be getting it in this week. I’m excited about using the 17fb again. I’ve always had an attraction to the cartridge

Use a suppressor with the 17 fireball. It completes its magic powers.

Not much there to suppress. LOL

17-556 Kak, Snake oil. LOL Not any better than 17 Rem. if all they use is a 20 gr. bullet which is crap for coyotes, plus bullet to light to fly straight at longer distances and will shed energy sooner.

Calling it snake oil and you only know the bare bas....never mind I see where this is going but:
The point is you can easily have a .17cal center fire without a bunch of extra hassle. Tried getting into .17 cal centerfire on a budget days ? Not the easiest thing. [bleep] just the fact I can form my brass from cheap and easy to find 5.56 and build a upper / buy an upper for less then $600 is more then enough reason not to look at all the 100yr just ass good bullet cartridges out there.

What you trying to do is fine if trying to save a buck. But if you are going the 17-556 route you not saving anything. If the maker has pat. on dies you going To pay extra for them and anything else you get through them. Save money just go the 17-223 route as its good enough for 100 yards. To make a 17-223 case you just neck it down that's all to it. Good luck.

This.

here in Minnesota where i live our coyotes are a little bigger and any 17 caliber or 204 is very iffy for a quick kill shot for many of us, a 22 caliber or bigger is better i prefer my 220 Swift better with 60 gr. Nosler Partitions , fox die easy with any centerfire big or small. good luck,Pete53

Pete

What's the average weight of your coyotes ?
In eastern MT. The big males usually weigh 38 lbs.

Hal

Coyotes run about the same here in weight Hal with few odd balls showing up a little heavier like 43 pounds. Been killing them for years with 17 Rem. and 17 Predator shooting 30 gr. bullets.

17 works great on fox and coyote here in PA. I prefer the 25 gr berger but just because that's what I have.