I was out shooting my muzzleloader yesterday and I ran into an issue. I am rather new to the black powder world so this may be normal. I have a CVA Wolf and was shooting BH209 and 375 grain cast bullets with bore butter. I have the BH 209 breech installed. On several of the shots I took, the primer would swell and I needed to use a small screwdriver to pry it out. Most would come out easily, but 5-6 out of 20 had this issue. I use CCI 209 primers. The ones that swelled also came out covered in residue, the ones that did not were still brassy.

Is this normal, or is there a problem in here somewhere?

Thanks

Scott

Have you used the drill bit to clean out the carbon buildup in the channel? Did the primers from the first shots come out easily? Can you see evidence of swelling or are you judging by seeing stuck primers? BH209 creates carbon fouling in the area where the primer sits and in the flash channel. After several shots accuracy begins to go away as the fouling builds. I never run more than ten shots before cleaning the breech plug. The barrel fouling never seems to build after the first shot, but the breech plug is another matter.

LeonHitch is right but I use a welding tip cleaner instead of a drill bit to clean the breech plug. I can go way longer than 10 rounds before breech plug cleaning. I wonder how my breech plug differes from Leon's breech plug? I am using a factory T/C Omega breech plug.

Colorado: Go on the BH209 website and make sure your breech plug is listed for BH209 use.

I have used a pin gage to clear the flash hole but not a drill bit or other abrasive. I am using the the BH209 plug. Guess I need to add a step or two to my range days and cleaning routines.

The swelling I was judging simply by the difficulty in getting them out. One would stick, the next 3 would be fine, another would stick and so on. My thoughts did not turn to carbon fouling as the sticking seemed random.

Thanks for the replies. I am slowly getting a handle on this rifle. Still feel like I'm building a pipe bomb every time I load it.

Leon: Do you use a drill bit for the flash hole or just the channel the primer sets in?

I should of been clearer in the first post. I use the drill bit in the area where the primer sits and just twist it in with my fingers lightly. You will be amazed by the carbon that comes out of the supposedly clean plug when you turn it upside down and tap it on a bench. Like bobmn, I use a welding torch tip cleaner on the flash channel of the breech plug.

I am using 3 different rifles with BH 209. First is a H&R Sidekick with aftermarket plug from Ben Hubbard. He only made a few and stopped because the factory tolerances were so sloppy. Second is a Traditions XLT with factory plug. My CVA is an Optima V2 with CVA 209 plug. The reason I clean the plug after 10 shots is that I have seen a falling off of accuracy even though the rifle had instant ignition.

I had the same problem first shot out of the box with the blackhorn plug and every shot after no matter if I cleaned it every shot or not. I believe it to be a primer headspace issue. Upon firing gases push the primer back until it contacts the receiver but on some poorly machined rifles this jump is considerable enough that too much gas escapes back through the breechplug into the primer swelling it up. CVA even used to sell a shim kit for the firing pin assembly because they knew of their crappy tolerances. I would not use that gun/ breechplug combo anymore without shimming the firing pin assembly. Even with standard plug would get a bunch of blowback all over the firing pin. I had to constantly keep it anti-seized.

What I’m saying is I think you have a poorly machined receiver and poorly machined blackhorn plug, as did I, causing this. It could be potentially dangerous if the primer were to pierce all that gas has to go somewhere in this case right next to the shooters face

I got tired of all the 209 drama and now have two sidelocks. Good luck with yours.

I remember quite awhile back of article saying to try a few differnt primers in CVA's for this problem or shim it. I have always used Winchesters with no problem in my TC Impact

I have always used the winchesters too because they are one of if not the longest bodied primers on the market and fairly hot too.I totally agree about the T/C Impact. I have two of them and they shoot blackhorn lights out with absolute zero blowback the primers stick a few thousands beyond the breechplug to ensure a nice tight seal. Best inline for the money in my opinion

All this info is right on the Blackhorn209 web page with pics on how to clean the FLASH CHANNEL. You should never need to clean the flash hole unless you cram something in it. The flash HOLE grows with each shot. The flash CHANNEL shrinks with each shot.

The correct size drill bit for a CVA QRBP for BH209 is 1/8". You might need to start with a smaller bit if its badly fouled.
https://blackhorn209.com/specs/breech-plug-cleaning/


Secondly how much BH209 are you using with that lead conical? You dont need more than about 80gr by volume with soft lead and you really need a wool or veggie wad under it unless you enjoy scrubbing lead out of your barrel. A wad will protect the base of the conical from the higher temps BH209 creates. It will also help with ignition reliability.

Thirdly the CCI209 is on the short side. You can use a o-ring in the primer pocket with them. The oring will help seal the primer for about 20ish shots before it needs replacing. Its a 6.5mm OD x 4.5mm ID x 1mm thickness oring. You can buy them in 100 packs at McMasters.
https://www.mcmaster.com/9262K611/

You can also use a longer primer like a Fed209A, Win209 or NSI 688/209. The NSI aka Nobel primer is also fatter and wont swell as easily.

Thanks for the replies. I will take a drill bit to the plug tonight to see how fouled it is.

I have been shooting 90-95 grains (by volume) and do not have a chrono setup right now. Will the lower charge of 80 grains have enough ummph for elk?

I got tired of the 209 drama also and now use 215's

It did on this one.

Its plenty. If the old 50-70 and 5-90 killed elk/bison there is no reason 80gr of BH209 wont although i would look at better conicals like Bullshop or No Excuses. The Lyman 395gr Great Plains would be a better starting point. The No Excuses 420gr would be another and he offers a sizing pack so you can see what fits your bore best.

Just about any reasonable weight muzzleloader bullet will take a deer. The advantage to lighter weight bulllets and heavier powder charges is flatter trajectory. Maybe that is why sabots are so populat?

Its appears he is after elk in Colorado and sabots are not allowed during the muzzleloader season even for deer.

loose head spacing and the fact that cva enlarged the screw driver slot on the firing pin, is the reason your primers are swelling and getting stuck.
https://bs-bp.forumotion.com/t386-improving-your-primers-seal?highlight=dirty+primers

Pretty funny. Not long ago you jumped me because I said something derogatory about inlines; and you defended them! They suck, and I'm glad you figured it out.

THe picture from that article looks just like the primers that were sticking in my rifle. Thanks for posting it.

Don’t recall the encounter, but in general I don’t like people who want to dictate how others hunt (or fish) so if you’re one of those that would be my best guess of what was “discussed”. I sold my Knight mainly because it was a lot of money to have tied up in something for a one-week season that takes place after the deer have been pressured for a couple of months. The secondary reason was that it was a PITA to clean, and primers tended to stick in the bolt. I even bought the shims to fix that, and an aftermarket plug too, but never bothered to use them. A third reason is that I just don’t enjoy shooting inlines as much as I do the more “organic” oldtimers, and now that I have good glasses, I can use them effectively. Have a very nice PH 1858 thats a pleasure to fire just for fun, and bought a used Renegade to use up all the .50 stuff I have laying around. Both will see woods-time.

Those of you who aren't sure you're cleaning your breech plug correctly...

Several great suggestions. I will add that whenever I had stuck primers the pressures were too high and went away when I lowered the powder charge. I would powdercoat cast lead bullets and shoot them before I ever used bore butter or any similar bullet lube.

Yeah, that's what it was. I take issue with attempts at navigating around the intent of the "primitive methods" seasons. But I ain't no elitist. I used to shoot compound bow with sights and release, but lately I would rather go with flintlock. Challenging!

Been making my meat with a crossbow for the past few years, but like the inlines it’s not something I shoot for fun, just enough to verify zero and then hunt. It’s a killer, but heavy and awkward, however if I can scratch down a baldie with it early on, I’ll satisfy our Earn-a-Buck rule and not have to pass on any shots later. We also have some early antlerless opportunities before the rut and I plan to try out some other “alternative” weaponry during those days.

CVA, and others I'm sure, make a little tool that removes stubborn primers. It has a little channel that the primer "rim" slides into and you can easily remove them. I'm almost certain my Accura V2 came with one. The Paramount Pro has one under the floorplate, albeit a slightly different size.

https://cva.com/product/capperextractor-tool-for-209-primers/