I am going to be buying a muzzleloader shortly for hunting elk here in Idaho. I need a muzzlelaoder that uses #11 caps, loose powder, lead conicles, and open sights. I have heard a lot of good about white muzzzleloaders but I have not been able to find out how they compare to muzzleloaders like the CVA Accura, CVA Optima, Knight ultralight, and other nice modern muzzleloaders shooting 400-480ish lead conicles?

Anybody have any info they would like to share?

How do the CVA's and Knight do shooting Heavy lead conicles?

Is cleaning white muzzleloaders a pain in the butt or is it pretty easy like the CVA's and Knights with the quick release plug?

Any info is appreciated. Thanks!

You may want to call CVA and ask them about shooting conicals over 400gr. Their response may not be what you expect.

CVA manual http://www.cva.com/pdf/AccuraV2%20Rifle%20Manual%20Form%20107V2%28Rev%202-13%29.pdf

LEAD CONICALS


White 504s have a 1-24 twist and they do exceptionally well with big conicals. That is what they were designed to shoot.

My Knights have shot conicals very well too but ive shot them mostly in DISC 45cals and MK85 54cal. The older MKs are exceptionally well made.

All the cap ignition inlines are going to be somewhat dirty shooters.

They also say not to shoot saboted bullets over 300 gr.

Why do you suppose this is?

If you can find a white muzzleloader especially a super 91 then you have it made. I had a 50 using 90 grains of pyrodex rs and a #11 percussion cap along with the 460 super slug it was a thing of beauty. Absolute hammer on Elk and Mule Deer . The only change I made to it was the addition of a lyman peep sight. Using the 460 grain super slugs they load with no resistance, they obturate when the gun is fired . Wish I had the darn thing back.


Super easy to clean and field strip. The way to go if you are using iron sights

Also need you ensure your cap is open to the elements. This limits you a lot!!!

Idaho Regulations:

Is capable of being loaded ONLY from the muzzle.
Is equipped with a single or double-barrel.
Is loaded ONLY with loose black powder OR other loose synthetic black powder.
Is loaded with a patched round ball OR a conical, unjacketed projectile comprised wholly of lead or lead alloy. No sabots.
Is loaded with a projectile that is within .010 of an inch of the bore diameter.
Is equipped ONLY with a flint OR a percussion cap OR a musket cap. 209 primers are prohibited.
Is equipped with an ignition system in which any portion of the cap is clearly exposed and visible when the hammer of the weapon is cocked and ready to fire.
Has no scope, only open or peep sights. Fiber optic open sites are permitted.
Is free of any electronic devices.
Is at least forty-five (.45) caliber for deer, antelope, or mountain lion.
Is at least fifty (.50) caliber for elk, moose, bighorn sheep, mountain goat, or black

I saw a CVA Optima "Northwest" version on sale at Cabelas. It had some changes to make it legal to use for you.

Just for kicks,you might wanna take a look at the LHR Redemption. I bought one and don't care to look at any others. And Ive owned quite a few. Encores included. The LHR is to be reckoned with

Does the LHR meet PacNW requirement?...I didnt think it did.

LHR does not meet PacNW code.

Do the Accura, Optima, and Ultralight even offer a #11 primer open to the elements option?

If so, you may be happy with them because they can be converted to 209 primers for other hunts.

But you won't find a better 400+ lead conical shooter than the White.

CVA offers Musket ignition on the Accura, Optima and Wolf. The Buckhorn can use 209, musket or #11.

Im thinking that Ill start looking for a White Super 91. From what I have researched, for Northwest hunters, they are the way to go. They have barrels specifically for heavy lead concicals, very accurate, and an all around good reliable muzzleloader.

Does any one know how heavy the White Super 91 and other White muzzleloaders are?

Well, you won't be the only one looking for a White. They show up time to time on Gunbroker and other sites but they go for top dollar. The last Super 91 went for $578 and it was pitted.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=453507171

Since you have time till next season, keep your eyes open and you might find a gem. I've pick up two Super Safaris (Super 91 with a Mannlicher style stock) in the past year at bargain prices. That said, don't sell the Knight MK-85 short. They can be had for very reasonable prices and are excellence shooters. It's just a matter finding the right bullet/load. I just picked up an unfired .50 cal stainless/laminated from my LGS for less than two bills.
As far as weight, the White Super 91s and derivatives are fairly heavy because they're built like tanks. The G-series (Whitetail) are substantially lighter and shorter. I don't have a way to weigh mine so can't give you a number. Good luck in your search.

CVA Optima PacNW legal

I've got a Whites Lightning model inbound from New York state, found it over Thanksgiving and at what seemed like a decent price. The bore looked clean, but I didn't get a chance to disassemble it. Should be delivered around Christmas, and I'll hopefully get to the range. I've ordered the No-Excuse Bullets for it, will see how they do.

I bought a Knight Bighorn last year when the Black Friday sale was on in .52 for Idaho. I thought I would get a second barrel in .50 for Eastern hunting, but by the time I added the parts up, I could get a second complete rifle for about the same price if I watched for a sale. It's been sitting as of now, and Parker out of Troy is the only source of .52 lead that I know of.

Ill add a quick 2 cents here while at he same time leaving what the others have said , to them as they no inlines and I don�t .

I met Doc a couple times and shot with him a couple more LOL .
One think about Doc was that his guns were unique in that they were designed to do what he wanted them to do , vs. most of the other bigger manufactures market their models based on the whim of the customer market .
Thus my own experience has been that no mater what type of rifle Doc made , be it traditional or inline , I have never found one that did not perform very well to the parameters he set forth .
Doc�s model 91 was in fact one of the only modern inlines that I ever considered owning . Not really for hunting but as something I could really ring out and see just what it was capable of .
Never did though . But I bet Doc is having a chuckle over that LOL .

Anyway if you must have a modern type rifle , then IMO you can do no better then the 91 .
Very good solid rifle

I met Doc once, a very unique individual. He hand delivered a rifle I bought from him to me. When I ordered it, I told him my shipping address he said he'd be staying overnight in a motel not far from me on his way to an elk hunt in a couple weeks. He called me when he got in and I met him the next morning before he hit the road. I shoulda had him autograph it

Since you're limited to open cap ignition and open sights, why not look at one of the Pedersoli fast-twist Hawkens?

Pedersolis are of excellent quality and good shooters. Never killed an elk, but I doubt a Hornady Plains bullet or Maxi Ball would bounce off one.

Knight makes a few rifles with open, Western ignition, but again, if limited as you are, I would go traditional.

If price is an issue, there are scads of TC Renegades available in 50 and 54. They may not be strictly authentic, but are good shooters and priced very reasonably.

I've picked a couple Knight Lk-93s for very little, they are cap fired, exposed breech, and decent fiber optic sights are available or come with them. They meet the requirements for Idaho, will have to see how they shoot.

shhhh! now everyone is going to know!
they shoot very well, actually, and have a fantastic trigger.

The LK 93 is the Wolverine, right? I have one that shoots well. Cleaning it sucks though compared to my Optima V2.

I have a white whitetail .504 loades 460gr no exuse bullets like butter. Shoots very well cleans very easy.

To me the plunger actions, especially Knights, are the easiest to clean thoroughly. I find it much easier than any break action.

Yes, although I can't figure out if the Wolverine title is the new, or the old marketing name. I thought they cleaned pretty easy. One of the two I bought, was just for the stock as the bore was supposed to be toast, completely rusted, and of no use. When I got, I ran a boresnake through it a few passes, and it's about as nice as any used one I've seen, looks like the rust was surface only, no pitting. Time will tell, but I was really happy with how well the neglect cleaned out of it.

What the heck kind of break action you been shooting where a plunger gun is easier to clean?!

On my CVA's I simply break the gun open, remove the breech plug, clean the inside with hot soapy water, dry it and then use birchwood casey 2 in 1 bore scrubber in the bore. 3 to 5 patches later its finished. No need to break the rifle down as mine are all head spaced for a snug fit against the primer which seals up ALL blow by from the primers.

I'll not comment on the break actions because I don't use one.

I will say that I've never found unscrewing a plunger bolt assy. and a breech plug to be a very difficult, or time consuming chore.........

I believe this thread was about Idaho legal muzzleloaders. I haven't seen a percussion cap fired gun that doesn't blow back regardless of action type. Even with the 209 ignition, not every breakaction is headspaced correctly from the factory to eliminate blowback. My g'smith gets several every year with the guts rusted up.

My super safari 91 is 9 lbs on the bathroom scale with a load (70g 777 and 460gn conical) and small bushnell trophy scope.

A .504 caliber may be a hair lighter due to the bigger hole down the barrel.

Knight Ultra-Lite Western Ignition is 6 lbs.