looking to start using a different kind of bp substite for my bp rifles.
been using goex 2f and 3f for years,going to start using something a little more user friendly,at least to try it.
what is everyone opinion of the best they have used.
TRIPLE 7, AND AMERICAN PIONEER IN 3FG
I dunno re best; because I've only used 777.
Couple weekends ago I was plinking w/ my GPR; shooting and reloading as quickly as I can with no nipple picking between loads(that's what she said...); 11 shots before a detectable very slight hangfire. Let gun sit for 4 days before cleaning. Took it in with me in my morning shower and cleaned it up quick and easy.
One very cold hunt 3 years ago, had gun loaded for several days before shot; no detectable hangfire at all.
I started with BP back in 76 or so. As Pyrodex came out ,then 777 ,I tried them. After having to throw unused partial cans out year after year from them degrading, I went back to BP. In my inline I use BH209 though.Don't let any one tell you that BH209 will give you 10-15 shots with cleaning either. I just stuck a sabot bullet about 6 " above the powder the other day and like to have never go it out.
Stick with the
BP
I started 30 years ago with Pyrodex, playing with 777 and APP along the way. Finally started using real BP when I bought my first flintlock. I'll never go back to subs.
IMO Pyrodex is just awful nasty stuff. I had good luck with 777 and APP in some guns (and cartridges with the APP) but other guns that just hated the stuff. I found BP works well in everything I have, lights easy and is no harder to clean than anything else.
BH 209 if you're shooting a rifle that's primed with a 209.
How about IMR white hots,anyone try those?
If you are shooting a sidelock, I cant imagine anything more user friendly than regular black.
In an inline that can use it, BH 209.
For in-lines I couldn't tell you. For trad rifles the original probably won't be equaled.
FRESH 777 works well in traditional rifles, if you can't get or store BP. With good technique, BP isn't as much trouble as some think.
Among substitutes, BH209 has no peer in the guns that can use it, IMHO.
Kind of late to start dinking around now, but next year I plan to install the cap ignition in my Knight and give Old Eynsford a "shot".
I used Pyrodex back in the 70s because you couldn't find black powder anymore. I quickly learned to treat it the same as black powder because it seemed to foul and promote rust just as fast. I'm going to start looking for the real stuff again.
I'm in Charlotte. Where can I find real black powder around here. Used it forever but don't have anymore. Broke out the renegade last week and killed a doe with pyrodex but would prefer black powder.
FRESH 777 works well in traditional rifles, if you can't get or store BP. With good technique, BP isn't as much trouble as some think.
That word "FRESH" is the key. I chased a lot of non problems because of deteriorated 777 or Pyrodex.Went back to BP and had no more problems..
Not to side track but what is the best way to store 777? I keep it in the box and that inside a zip lock freezer bag but there has to be a better system.
Not to side track but what is the best way to store 777? I keep it in the box and that inside a zip lock freezer bag but there has to be a better system.
I use to take mine and first screwed the lid on with a piece of plastic shopping bag under it,put it in a zip lock bag and then in a metal sealed ammo can.It still degraded.The best thing to do is throw out what is left in the jug or use it soon for practice and next hunting season by a new one. I live in Colorado where it is relatively dry. I can't imagine what happens to it in more humid areas
Not to side track but what is the best way to store 777? I keep it in the box and that inside a zip lock freezer bag but there has to be a better system.
We are doing something very similar with 777 pellets. I help with a Service member program that takes troops afield for black powder deer season. We end up with a box or two of extra pellets every year.
I try to burn the old pellets during preseason sight-in and function checks, and open a new box for the hunts. Each troop does a sight-in with the new pellets, so we know if there has been a huge shift in POI before we get in the stand.
BUT, I'm usually worried that the pellets are bad at the start of the prep every season. This my second year, hasn't been an issue in the humidity of Virginia - yet.
We were given some sealed 777 pellets this year, they were labeled under $16 a box, so I'm pretty sure they were several years old.
No issues, they fired through 50 rounds of sight-in, 10 rounds of function checks, and 3 of the 5 shots fired - killed a deer.
Thanks, the humidity here in middle TN is ugly. I'm using pellets and I'm guessing no matter what I'm getting some moisture intrusion. It's similar to trying a new lot of powder if much time goes by between using it. It's a conundrum-I like to have a good supply on hand because there have been times that even Pyrodex is hard to find but it doesn't store well. I wonder if a packet of dissecant in the bag would help?
I'm in Charlotte. Where can I find real black powder around here. Used it forever but don't have anymore. Broke out the renegade last week and killed a doe with pyrodex but would prefer black powder.
Blair,
Give these folks a call and they will help you out. I have lost track of the number of pounds of BP I have bought from them.
POWDER, INC LINKEd
I gave several of the non-BP's a try. Nothing worked consistently.
This was mostly w/inlines.
BP is a bit harder to find these days, but I don't see a viable alternative.
Have my old metal Goex cans in kitchen above cabinets, they blend right in with the other nostalgia stuff.
BlairVT, I know of one place in Christiansburg that carries BP[not sure if you are hunting up this way anymore].
I gave several of the non-BP's a try. Nothing worked consistently.
This was mostly w/inlines.
BP is a bit harder to find these days, but I don't see a viable alternative.
Have my old metal Goex cans in kitchen above cabinets, they blend right in with the other nostalgia stuff.
BlairVT, I know of one place in Christiansburg that carries BP[not sure if you are hunting up this way anymore].
Actually just bought a place off the parkway near Hillsville. Who in C-burg carries it?
I used Blackhorn 209 whenever I can. It is expensive but it is very accurate and forgiving if you can't clean it right now.
If it is a sidelock or a pistol it gets goex black. All the others I've tried have been more expensive and just as much trouble.
Millers Gun Shop 540-381-7540
Franklin St[just out of town limits heading towards Pilot].
I guess you sold in Indian Valley?
yes, we sold it. Place I have now has a real nice log cabin. killed 2 deer off the back porch so far. Place has been empty for years. Deer walk through the yard and look at me like "what are you doing here?"
Good deal.
Pretty country over there!
FYI- my wife is an 'Allen'....of Courthouse fame.
All I have ever shot is Pyrodex and Black. I like the Pyrodex in my Hawkin. I shot 17-18 shots on Sunday without swabbing at all, just load and shoot. The very last shot was a bit slow on ignition but all the rest loaded easy and shot true. With black I can only shoot once, then have to swab to get the next ball down the bore. I need to figure out how to get a few rounds without swabbing with BP but I have yet to figure it out.
Wow! Just happened to be in the old shop today looking for some gun parts when management made decision to stop handling "The Holy Black". After 56 years!
Graf and Sons will ship you black powder. I bought some from them last year. I have tried several of the substitutes. I like BH 209 the best if your rifles breechplug will light it.
For a traditional sidelock I would use Black powder. I have had subs not light shooting at deer or hang fires. Never had black powder not fire if the cap fired. One year I was out of caps and bought a tin of Remington caps some of them wouldn't fire. Never had a cci cap not go off. Musket or percussion. I have used them both.
All I have ever shot is Pyrodex and Black. I like the Pyrodex in my Hawkin. I shot 17-18 shots on Sunday without swabbing at all, just load and shoot. The very last shot was a bit slow on ignition but all the rest loaded easy and shot true. With black I can only shoot once, then have to swab to get the next ball down the bore. I need to figure out how to get a few rounds without swabbing with BP but I have yet to figure it out.
Better lube, thinner patch, smaller ball.
My rule of thumb is I need to be able to reload and fire hunting loads twice, for a total of three shots, or change something, at least for deer. A small loss of accuracy from a looser-fitting load shouldn't hurt your chances much. Barrels meant for balls as opposed to combo-twists may have deeper grooves, which helps.
Pyrodex is essentially black powder with 'secret ingredients' to stabilize it so as to get around BP's 'explosive' status for shipping purposes. In my experience Pyrodex is every bit as dirty as BP and *seems* to be more corrosive.
Pyrodex rs select (rifle grade) is pretty good used it for yrs, tried bh209 had all the probs anyone could have had with it. Breech plug design and not willing to shuck out 50 bucks to get one modified . Use 777 2f in my kodiak , the dreaded crud ring is easily taken care of with butch,s black powder bore shine. 777 is hygroscopic it absorbs moisture and swells out then when you load it and the compression actually crushes it to a sand like form. which is like shooting a 3f or 4f pistol or priming powder. Always buy a fresh can of 777 every yr!!!!!! I looked at the difference in size and color between an old and new can . Also you can literally take old 777 and grind in your fingers into a sand like texture versus fresh 777 which takes alot of effort to crush in your fingers. How do I know this..... I shot a can of 777 that I had for 3 seasons like a miserly dumbass and shot over a real nice buck in area 44a on fort campbell, after looking for 2hrs not believing I missed , I found the bullet hole in a tree almost 4 ft up. Then I did all the detective work to find out stuff. New can hit to point of aim at 100 like 777 2f should, old can hit 8 inches higher cause i was shooting sand like crushed powder .Always always always buy a fresh can of 777 each yr !!!!, saving a few bucks ain't worth missing a good buck and learning chyt after the fact.