I haven't been to Alaska yet � but I'm going! Looking for a good moose/bear rifle/cartridge. I prefer stainless/composite rifles to hunt with. I'm leaning towards the Remington Sendero in .338 RUM (if I can find one as they are out of production).

Remington still sells the .338 RUM in their XCR, but the one I have in .270 wsm is "less accurate than I expect". I've never heard of a Sendero that wasn't a shooter & I don't mind carrying a heavy rifle if it shoots well.

What is the group's wisdom regarding this rifle & cartridge for hunting Alaska? Not to ask for it but if there are other recommendations, now is the time � before I drop a bundle on the wrong gun.

Thanks!

It is too much rifle for 98% of ALL shooters and 99.9% of all shooters claiming recoil immunity.

Bring your 06 and get it done comfortably...
art

I'm not an Alaskan hunter, but I did once own a 338 RUM. It was the most accurate 338 bore I have ever shot. But, you'll find out in a hurry if you really have recoil immunity. All three 416 Rems and the 375 Ack I had kicked less than the 338 RUM.

I absolutely would not shoot one in a Sendero stock. These stocks don't have much flex and don't help with recoil mitigation. If you must shoot the RUM (and PLEASE don't brake it), then get the Sendero and put it in a beefy McMillan stock. A 10 lb w/scope RUM in a McMillan stock is tolerable.

From purely a shooting perspective, a 375 H&H is a lot easier to shoot than a 338 RUM. The H&H pushes you, the RUM snaps at you. A 338 Winny is also easy to shoot.

However, please note the HIGHLY experienced Alaskan hunter/shooter/guide who posted above recommends a 30-06.

.338 win Mag should be just about ideal. Or as sitka says the 30-06 would kill 99.9...% as many moose and bears as the bigger guns.
The only .338 RUM I would own would be a long range, heavy, expensive scope with turrets gun for shooting elk... at 800+ yards. Since that not the type of hunt your talking about it wouldnt be my 1st choice[not even my 10th] Please dont take offense its just opinion. Good Luck

I had a 338RUM in a Sendero.
It was a brutal rifle to shoot, and this from a guy that has a fair number(around 700)rounds downrange through a 340 Wby of similar weight,FWIW.

Three six bits would be more fun in a 10 lb. rig.

I have a 338 Rum. I bought it for Moose/Grizz, but haven't used it for one yet. Sure it kicks, but you know you'll be imparting much greater pain at whatever you are shooting at. Lots of power.

Calvin,
Is yours a Sendero, or a custom of some sort??

It's a factory 700, SS. I had it in a McM Lazzaroni Stock, and shot it a bunch. Recoil wasn't a big deal. I just put it in a McM BDL stock, to make it easier to pack around...

That sounds nice.
If I was to try a 338 RUM again, and I may sometime, being a fan of the .338's-I would go the route you have, I think.

What bullet weight do you favor?
210 TSX??

I've been shooting factory ammo, but will be reloading 210XLC's when I get around to it.

Just Me!............If you are in need of a 338, which is a very good if not an excellent choice for Alaskan moose and bears, I would certainly consider the 338 Win before the 338 RUM.

Do you want a rifle that you can enjoy shooting from the bench? Or, do you want a rifle that you simply sight in by firing a few rounds, shoot once or twice on a hunting trip, then clean and put into storage until the next hunting trip?

The 338 RUM is a brutal cartridge on the shoulder. I have fired a few 338 RUM rounds here and there. And to be honest, my 375 Ruger Alaskan isn`t as bad. Nor is the 375 H&H for that matter.

Granted the RUM can be loaded down. That`s like buying a Corvette and then driving conservatively. Anyone who owns a 338 RUM and says they always fire reduced loadings is lying, or anyone who owns a Vette and says they don`t ever get on it, is also lying as well. Who`s kiddin who!!!

You don`t need the power of a 338 RUM in order to successfully kill moose and big bears "within" all the average hunting shooting distances for these animals. Velocity and energy #s on paper for the RUM are certainly impressive, but impractical. The vitals are located in the center of the animals. The bullet need not penetrate the animal and then knock over a tree on the other side somewhere.

depending on its use, your shoulder will certainly pay a heavier price.

In the 338 category only, I`d opt for the 338 Win or the 338 RCM before the RUM!

And if you`re open to other calibers for moose and dangerous bears, I`d certainly pick either a 375 Ruger or the H&H before the 338 RUM. Even a milder recoiling 300 mag/30-06 using the right bullet would be a better all around choice and make for more shooting enjoyment.

The Sendero is alot of rifle to lug around. It's a good rifle, but it is just heavy.

Most guides would rather see you drop a bundle for practise with your '06, and have some premium 180 grainers in that for the hunt.

Calvin, happy Birthday to you.

OK, I'm back. THANKS for all the replies!!

Seems a near consensus the recoil of the .338 RUM isn't worth the price to those hunting Alaska. The other 2 rounds I was seriously considering were the .375 H&H & the .340 Weatherby. The .375 seems ideal for short-range shooting, which I concur would be the vast majority of shots presented. Then again, I grew up varmint hunting and I'm comfortable taking deer at 400+ yards with my 7 mm Rem mag Stainless Stalker (and would go to 500 yards under IDEAL conditions). That said, I wanted a cartridge and rifle capable of a "longer" shot if that's what I was presented with.

What of the 340 Weatherby? I was a little surprised no one mentioned it. It's about halfway between the .338 Win & .338 RUM cartridges. Thoughts?

Thanks!
Ron

What he said...

Typically, neither moose nor bears are shot at long distances. Both are animals that deserve, if not also require, attention to detail. Small bears can look big at a distance. Their hide, the trophy part of the animal and the required salvage also deserves some observation. In many parts of the state, moose also need to be observed closely enough to determine legality status. While something along the lines of a decent-carrying 340 Weatherby or 338 RUM might be warranted if one were guiding and potentially might need to tag a disappearing wounded animal, that hardly makes it a great choice as a primary hunting weapon for the animals listed. If you can't do it with a standard Winchester 338 (or a 300 Mag or 30-06), there is news about your use of things that needs some attention.

I have owned the 338 RUM for a while and it kicks but it is one of my favorite hunting cal for big game. I don't really like it off the sand bags but when hunting i don't even hardly feel it when shooting at a game animal. If I was going after bear the 338 RUM would be my first choice with the Nosler Partition or Triple Shock. Brown Bear and Moose in my opinion is what makes the 338 RUM shine. I use mind for mostly Elk but have killed three or four Whitetail that dressed around a hundred pounds with very little meat loss. As Elmer Keith used to say you could eat them up to the bullet hole. I like the 338 RUM and it isn't as bad in recoil as most think. If you can handle any of the 30 cal magnums then you can handle the 338 RUM.

Sounds like a good setup, Calvin.

I have been meaning to try 210gr slugs in my 340, I have never fired anything lighter than 225gr.

Have to disagree...

I have shot several versions of the RUMs and there is a huge difference in every way between the 30s and the 338. Not even in the same league, and the numbers would show the huge difference. I just sold a 375 RUM a few months back on here and it was noticably kinder than the 338 RUM, though still a thumper.

ADF&G in Delta Junction took notes of the number of rounds fired (as reported by hunters) at bison and the cartridges they used. Tracking the numbers graphically showed the bigger the cartridge the worse the shooting. I forget which cartridge, but a double gun shooter with something huge won the prize for shooting well over a box of ammo at one bison...
art

and the prize for the most money spent on ammo...wonder what his price per round was?

at one bison...

Would "in the general vicinity of..." work mo betta'?

If you don't already have top notch optics, i.e. binos and spotting scope, you'd be much better off investing in those and using your -06, then getting a big thumper.

With todays bullets, I see precious little need for anything bigger than a 300 win mag as an all around alaskan rifle. I'd also say based on experience that a heavy rifle is a much, much bigger handicap than a lighter caliber.

I shoot the 210 tsx in my 338 win mag. Great accuracy and performance. I cant remember if it was H4350 or H4831sc but one of those 2 worked well for me.
Took an elk in utah last year at longrange for me 470+- yrds.2- 3 feet of penetration and broke the off shoulder.Opened well good wound channel and 100% weight retention. Dean

I think the 375 H&H would be the better choice for moose and brown bear, as klikitarik said, you need to shoot these critters at as close a range as possible. Shooting brown bears much over 200 yards is risky, especially when they are in the brush country.
One of my favorite rifles for hunting brown bears and moose was the 375H&H using Federal Premium Vital Shok 300gr Nosler Partitions. I've also shot moose and grizzlies with my model 70 270 with 150gr Nosler Partitions in the Federal loads though I wouldn't recommend that caliber for big brown bears, though it is plenty for moose IMO.

Not as well as into a bison.

I guess it depends on how you hunt, what sort of terrain and cover, but in general that sounds like a bad idea. I don't think the long barreled, front heavy Sendero is an ideal choice in cover especially with critters that bite (or stomp) back. I don't think the .338 RUM cartridge is a good choice for that application either, it's a long range, open country heavy hitter.

My first choice, if a Remington is selected, is the 700 XCR in .375 H&H. I owned one. It was light enough to be very portable and had very manageable recoil ... I put 110 rounds though mine one morning with no ill effects other than a burnt thumb.

FWIW, I had that same gun in .338 RUM and it flat beat the hell out of me. The recoil on the shoulder was at the edge of my tolerance, but ok for a few shots. The main problem was not being able to get a scope with enough eye relief. I kept getting clocked in the forehead about 20% of the time if I held the gun normally. Once it hit me hard enough to knock my neck out of adjustment at the atlas joint and put me down crawling and dry heaving, migraine style, at the range. Give that beast it's due, though, it was accurate. By leaning way back ... 16-18 inches from the scope ... lining up the little lit circle inside the big black circle with the crosshairs in the center, and I was able to get quarter inch 100 yard groups out of it with RL22 and the 225 grain Accubond. After trying 3, I think it was, different longer eye relieve Leupold scopes (3-9X, 2.5-8X, and ... one other) I gave up and sold the gun.

If I ever do another .338 RUM .. and it's tempting .. it's going to weigh around 14-15 pounds. I might even have to ignore my own rules and put a brake on it.

Tom

.............Just Me!..................First off! In most cases if not all, you won`t be taking 400-500 yard kill shots for moose and big bears, especially on guided hunts. Not even out to 300 yards in most cases.

A big mistake that alot make, is buy a rifle and cartridge to cover what is "perceived" as the "just in case of this" or the "just in case of that" syndrome. And in many cases they later regret buying the rifle. I know of a few of them within my own circle of friends.

One good example was, that a friend bought a nearly 9 lb Remy Sendero for an upcoming elk hunt. It looked good to him and it is a very good looking piece. He then tops it off with a big 4-16x50 scope. After the scope, sling and rings, he`s well over 10 lbs. He goes on his hunt, which as it turned out had some steep terrain. And 4 days into the hunt he winds up killing his bull elk at only 45 yards within some thicker timbers!!! Per him, he will no longer be using that rifle for elk hunts. Sometimes, buying from emotion can be regretable later and waste money. He was told by his guide that for that area, the average kill distances for elk is about 240 yards.

Although a little less powerful and with a little less recoil than the 338 RUM, the 340 Wby is still a formidable cartridge to deal with at the bench. The new MK5s are beautiful rifles and pricey as well. When it comes to moose and bears, the 338 Win although not as powerful, will more than do the job covering all guided shooting distances for the kill shots. So if your final caliber choice is a 338, I`ll stand with the 338 Win.

As to your perception that the 375 seems more ideal for shorter range hunting?? Well, I have some "BIG" news for you my friend!!!! A 375, is about as ideal as you can get for moose and big bears out to any "guided" maximum kill distances for these animals. My 375 Ruger for example can propel a 270 grainer @ 2800+ fps, a 260 gr Nosler A/B @ nearly 2900 fps and a 225 grainer @ over 3000 fps. It shoots as flat the 270, flatter than both the 30-06 and 338 Win Mag and hits with more energy upon impact. Using the right bullet, I wouldn`t under-estimate the longer ranged capabilities of the 375.

Although I`m a huge fan of the 375 Ruger, but if given the choice between only the 340 Wby and 375 H&H, I would be more inclined to take a 375 H&H for moose and the big bears. And, I`d probably take the 375 over the 338 Win as well.

Squueze
I have always felt if a guy needs more gun than a 300WM he needs to go straight to the 375H&H. I cannot get warm to the 338 in any iteration. I have watched more people embarass themselves on the back end of a 338WM than any other cartridge.

Long distance capability may be important in any rifle at any time if a poorly placed shot provides a leaving target going over the next hill. He may very well be 500 or more yards and you HAVE to try to put him down.

That is just one more reason why I think the 375H&H is ideal if you are looking for a back-up rifle. But the 300WM or 30-06 would still be my first choice for a moose/bear hunt.

I am no where near a Partition fan, but I watched OlBlue shot a Kodiak bear in the left "cheek" and it traveled full length, exiting EXACTLY through the ear hole, doing no damage at all to the hide. That was a 300gr NPT in a 375H&H.
art

I've got a stainless MKV in 340 Wby and like it a lot. Mid 80 grains (can't recall for sure of top of head) of RL19 gives the 210 TSX over 3000 fps (without having to redline anything) and is very accurate, at least in my rifle. Shoots flat, hits hard. I don't think it kicks all that hard (assuming you've shot other large caliber rifles) nor do the few others that have fired it. It's not a lightweight rifle which I'm sure helps in that regard as does the quality recoil pad.

Gotta admit though, if intending to punch holes in a big Brown I might be working up a load for the 275gr A-Frame.

...........Well! If he winds up going with the a 338, shelve the 338 RUM and the 340 Wby and go with the 338 Winny.

I`m not exactly a Partition fan either. But regardless of caliber, the right bullet along with good shot placement is necessary and certainly a good idea.

Even though I`m a 300 WSM owner too which is also very capable, I`d still prefer my .375 Ruger for those big bears and bison, which is why I bought a 375 Ruger in the first place.

I'll third that, but my vote probably doesn't matter 'cause I am indeed a partition fan.

Tom

I have lighten my 338 RUM down to just over seven pounds . I use the Nikon Monarch 6x42 scope , which is a great scope . I Had the rifle in a HS Stock but gave it to my son for his 300 RUM. I just received the B&C Mountain stock and will be skim bedding it this week. I'm not sure what the rifle will weight after putting it in this stock. My load is The Nosler Partition 225 gr and Max load of Rel 22 and Fed 215 . It works on elk. The deer i killed i use the Nosler 200 gr BT with Rel 22. Here is a cow elk i took in Colorado with the Nosler 225 , she was running across a opening at about 125 yards and when i hit her she plowed the ground up for 20 yards she went down so fast.

Irrelevant question: is that a left handed rifle or is that picture reversed aka the famous Billy the Kid left handed Winchester photo? Either way, purty gun, and g' job on the elk BTW!

We're all put together a little different. I couldn't manage that rifle you've got. I'm built such that my face is forward of my center of gravity. I don't get scopes in the eye, I get 'em mid forehead as the rifle kicks my shoulder backwards and slams my head down on top of the scope ... it's a down motion, not a back motion.

That Nosler max load of RL 22 ... 91 grains, I think it was ... with a Fed 215 and a 225 grain Accubond was what shot so well for me.

You can't know how much I wanted that 700 XCR of mine to work out, accuracy was there, everything, just couldn't keep from getting _seriously_ clocked in the head.

Tom

Left Hand

Wow. I'm not too versed on a .338RUM. I have a .375H&H and a .300WBY if I need something heavy. Greg R. Haskins's chart on the Chuck Hawks site lists the recoil factor for one at 54. The 7mmRemMag is 28 and the .30-06 is 21. Wow, again.

Good cartridge, wrong platform.

Although I'd do a 338WM in that size bore.

A .338 Win.Mag. is all you need for Ak. Load it up with a 225 gr. NF for moose or a 240 NF for bigger bears. The 240, tho only 15 more grains was designed with big bears in mind.
There's no guide that will allow you to take a long shot on a BB. None of them are that stupid.
Bear in Fairbanks

I have a 700 LSS in 338 RUM, she is a shooter. I addeda Pachmyer Decelerator recoil pad and it made a big difference in recoil. Its not too bad from the bench or prone and you will never notice the recoil when shooting game.


JD338

For a guy that can drive one,it don't get much better than the 338Ultra..................

I agree fully, but the guy that can drive one is rare... I know straight-up I am not even thinking of going there and I find my 375AI fun.

Spike can drive em'.

When I'm hunting Elk or whatever and this guy shows up.



This is when I'm glad I have my 338 Rum. I have used my 338 Rum. to take Elk and Bears, it dose this task with great authority. Bamm DRT.

Yes this gun has some recoil, I have no problem shooting it.
I much like shooting and hunting with my 30-06.

Here is my 338 Rum. They are a great round if you can shoot them.


Happy Hunting.

I like shooting mine. It will put big game down pronto

It depends largely on what you get used to shooting. I now use my 458WM for most big game. It's heavy, but balances well and is VERY accurate firing a 350gr TSX at 2750 fps. Do I need all that power? No, but neither do I NEED rifles or hunting!

Hunting is a sport/recreation for most of us. If it were a matter of survival, my Ruger 96/44 would suffice! Let's not kid ourselves about the rifles needed... We/I choose a rifle/cartridge because of the IDEA behind it... the challenge it represents in load development, accuracy, how well I can shoot it under real-life hunting conditions, it's looks, feel, balance, etc. The reasons are many.

I've owned a 340WBY and shot a moose with it. The moose was at 165yds and I shot it offhand. No big deal. The bullet was a 250 NP at 3000 fps. Put about 2000 rounds through that rifle and sold it. I moved on to bigger rounds.

Bigger bores make bigger holes, which is to my liking. I also like a 300WM. If stuck with one, that might be it... but I doubt it. It probably would be one of my 45-70's.

The point? Shoot what you like and can handle, and don't get hung-up on the opinion of others. That's my conclusion of the matter after over 50 years hunting and shooting.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Im a pusss. I have a break on mine. But it does shoot, and chit dies right now.

Toby Joe

good picture of the Griz to illustrate the point. Did you take it yourself?

I really like the 338 Win. it is a 30-06 on steriods with a 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS and a 300 gr. Woodleigh at almost 2500 FPS is pretty hard to beat, that is a very balanced combination..I have shot about all of Africas plainsgame with it, and I have shot a few Cape Buffalo with it..I hunt elk in Idahos thick black forests and all shots are going away and that 300 gr. Woodleigh will really put an elks nose in the needles and I sure dont' want him going down hill into one of our drainages, where packing him out can be days of labor..It also works very well on Bison, Eland and the big bears, in fact more Alaskan guides use the .338 Win as a back up rifle than any other caliber according to a recent survey I read somewhere...Phil shoemaker just purchased a nice 338 Win and I'm sure it will see some use on the big bears in the near future.

I would suggest the .338 Win. for what you need..

For my personnel preference I don't much care for the .338 Winchester, any rifle that kills from both ends is not real high on my need list.

For you folks that don't mind getting hit in the shoulder with a meat axe, they sure do get lots of bragging about. I stay with the .375H&H, it has a lot more of the gentle giant name for me, and seems to get her done.

3sixbits I own both a 338 win and a 375 H&H. How is it that you feel the 375 is more gentle than the 338? I feel if its apples to apples loads and bullet weight wise the 338 doesnt kick any more than a 375.
My dad had a browning A-bolt in 338 win and that was the most miserable gun I have ever shot. It flat out hurt you every shot. I dont care how tough you are. It was light and had tire rubber for a recoil pad. If you compare same weighted rifles with good recoil pads for me the 338 and 375 are in the same ballpark recoil wise. Dean

I've never understood the claims of the 338 being so much harsher than the 375. The only bearing point I can see is perhaps most 338's are lighter than a 375.

I guess the real argument is, if you're going to jump past a 30 mag, why stop at 33 when you can have a 375?

The 338 and above are not for everyone but if you can shoot one well then you are a step above the smaller Cal's. Recoil is a small price to pay for the killing power of the 338 . The hardest kicking rifle i believe i ever shot was a Mark 5 German Wby I owned in 300 Wby Mag shooting the 220 gr factory load, it would kick the snot out of you and 338 RUM seems pleasant compare to that Wby

I've had a .338 Winchester model 70 for about 40 years now, not much different from any other model 70 in .375H&H I own, I have never had anybody shoot that rifle that didn't say it kicked less than any of my .375H&H's they shot, it ain't just me. The darn thing just flat out hurts. Of course you can look at the rifle and tell it never got much hunting time with me, yes there is a reason.

Even better than the 338 is the 340. The .002 make more difference than you'd expect.

Before I get flamed that's a paraphrase of a paraphrase by Sitka deer of a gun clerk's overheard statement.

I'm pretty sure Art has mentioned that one to me in the past.

The 338WM recoil is much quicker, IMO&E than the 375H&H. I hate every 338 I have ever been forced to shoot. The 375 has never been a problem.

As my Grandfather told me once about cutting corners, "If you are flying to NY they won't make you get off some bus in Chicago..."

Still crack up every time I think about the 340 comment...

Oh yes...
at around a 340, the need for blue tape on the muzzle also decreases!

Trying to remember the one I told you in Sportys.

"'06 inherently kicks more than a 338 or 375."

kicks venerably, don't it?

You know,
If I hadn't spent so much time the past 8 or 9 years screwing around with various 338's I could have bought one 30-06 and loaded a slug of 200gr partitions and had the money left over to moose and bear hunt up Alaskee way.


I is a slow learner at times...

i say get a 338 rum !
and some of you may disagree, but put a good brake on it, and never look back.

here's mine with a 28.75 inch douglas barrel with intigral brake. it is a pussycat to shoot.
i'm running 250 sierra gamekings at 3,052 average out of her, and the fresh back strap on the plate is from the cow below, shot last week saturday, opening day of colorado's 2nd elk rifle season. she weighs without ammo,bipod or sling, 9.2 lbs, on a digital bathroom scale.

i worked my clicks on the luppy 3.5-10 and checked and rechecked, before i ordered a custom kenton industries turret. it's spot on , a quality product, and i just turn the dial to the distance, hold dead on and send it.

the cow elk i shot at 700 yards.

and where i hit.

and a representation of how accurate a 338 rum can be.1st 2 shots on lower left, then i adjusted and a 3 shot group.


get one and enjoy it, it's a real canon, and will be more than enough for anything on north america, and most likely africa too.

Yup, nothing quite like navigating in brush with a periscope... Or putting out your hunting partners' eardrums from brake blast...

Bear and moose hunting may not be a lot alike, but the long barrels and huge horsepower is absurd for any but those that just HAVE to play with the biggest gun.

to each his own. it works for me, as well as a 300 rum when we have to shoot long.

now i also brought a marlin 35 remington for walks in the woods.
so from one extreme to another.

the above rifle isn't for the brush, and we wear electronic earmuffs when we set up.

he asked, i showed.....

Friend cmg

No I did not take that picture of that Grizzly Bear. I got it here at 24 Hr. "I think" I got it off the net. I take no credit. It is a nice picture.

Hammer,

Very much so - thanks.

I had a Remington 700 LSS in .338 RUM. When you touch off a round, you can count on speaking in tongues for several minutes afterwords. I could manage about 8 rounds off the bench, but that was it. It is the most vicious kicking gun I've shot (hard and fast) besides a fairly light .378 Weatherby. Too much gun for me. I sold it and rely on my Sako 75 .300 RUM for long range work.

All that being said, I put in one big vote for the .338-06 for the game you are considering. It is flat shooting enough for any sane range to shoot a big bear. Recoil is quite manageable, which leads to more practice.

What a great thread! My big bores are a .300Wby(Vanguard), .300Win(Howa), .338-06(Sav rebarrel), and a yet unfired Rem SPS-DG in .375H&H. I am a little recoil sensitive and the first three don't seem to bother me for a few shots from the bench. Our biggest game are large whitetails. I'm too old for mountains, but I still love big rifles. I also have levers in .45-70, .375Win, .35Rems, and .32Wins. Reading all of these has been a good learning experience. Life is good.

If forced into having to guess why every .338 Winchester I've shot kicks like a bay mule on booze, I kinda thought it was the short case and that killer shoulder, but being in complete agreement with anyone that thinks the .338Winchester kicks like that bay mule, I never gave it much thought beyond that.

The only rifles I thought the lead sled were really made for was both of the RUM's I shot from the lead sled. Gosh what a pain putting a hundred pounds of lead on a rest, carrying all that crap around just to shoot a rifle? Each to his own I suppose.

I weighted my 338 RUM today, complete rifle scope and all 7.6 lbs. I still don't mind shooting it, because it hammers Elk and that is what i purchased it for. .I kind of like rifle that has it when you need it and the 338 has it.

Wow! Thanks for all the posts!! Glad I started this thread.

I still don't know which route I'll go. I've already got a .223, .25-06, a couple of .270 WSMs, and a 7 mm Rem Mag. I would like to add both a .300 RUM and a .375 H&H but don't know if I can talk myself into the cash outlay for 2 rifles, bases, ring sets, & scopes � especially since I have a habit of buying very good optics.

I should add that I have a LeadSled & believe anyone spending much time at the range should try, if not buy, one. They make range work much more comfortable & working up loads seems to happen faster whether due to less fatigue, the rest, or simply the belief that the contraption will help.

Thanks again,
Ron

Best to you Ron, on whatever you decide.

The 300RUM is a fun caliber, kicks quite a bit less than does it's big brother, IMO.

Hard to beat the .338 wm if you handload. You can amp it up or down. If you find yourself recoil adverse, how about a 210 TSX at 2850? In an 8.5 pound rifle firing only 63 grains of R15 or 62 grains of Varget (slightly slower) this gives a whopping 27lbs of recoil. Itty bitty groups. Pretty darn efficent

Another caliber, that has not been mentioned, but is also a thumper is the 7mm RUM. The kick is less then its 2 bigger brothers, but it also has devastating results on game. Never seen it in action on anything bigger then elk, but it did a damn good job in that department.

Toby Joe

300WM will be far easier to find ammo for, especially in a Delta pinch...

30-06 even easier...

Ron

I think that there are still a few of the Rem 700 SPS-DG .375H&H's out there in the under $600 range. Good luck.

"Or, do you want a rifle that you simply sight in by firing a few rounds, shoot once or twice on a hunting trip, then clean and put into storage until the next hunting trip?"

Hell, that's what I do with my .338 Winnie.... having thoroughly wrung it out the first year I owned it, 20 something ago...

Actually, that's the state of affairs with ALL my rifles - I simply see no point in pouring needless rounds down the barrels once we understand each other....

.338 WM would be the way to go.

I'm 38 now, but about 10 years ago I had an HS Precision in 338 RUM. I took it to BC on a horseback hunt and shot a moose and a mountain goat with it. I spine'd the moose at around 240 yards and he went down like a sack of flour. The moutain goat was shot at around 340 yards, the first shot through the right shoulder on a quartering towards angle. The goat hardly reacted and turned to his right and gave me a quartering towards shot on the other shoulder. I put one through the left shoulder and he stumbled and fell down the mountain about 20 yards, and that was it. I was using handloads with Win Failsafes. We recovered the bullet from the moose, but neither from the goat. I know the 338 RUM would be plenty for any NA game, but I don't think the slight gains in performace are worth the added recoil.

Just because you can drive one, doesn't mean it will be enjoyable! Yes, of course you don't notice the recoil in the field, but you pay at the bench and that isn't conducive to load development and practice. Twenty shots at the bench was about all I could stand, and after 20 I would have a headache.

That gun would shoot .50", but I sold that thing and have never regretted it, and I will never own another. I have a 375 H&H now, and although it's not a pussycat, it is not so brutal at the bench. It reminds me more of shooting a 12 gauge slug gun.

My advice to you is that if you want a big bore, go 375H&H and avoid the huge case modern magnums. If you want a capable round in something you will really enjoy shooting, or a lightweight gun, go 9.3x62mm.

Thanks all!

The 7 mm RUM, 30-06 & .300 Win Mag weren't on my list of cartridges to consider since they don't gain much over what I already have. My 7 mm Rem mag covers much of what they can do. The .300 RUM & .375 H&H are in a different class. I didn't seriously look at the .375 Ruger since it has little ballistic advantage over the less well designed .375 H&H while .375 H&H ammunition is available worldwide. If other manufacturers were building rifles in .375 Ruger & I knew .375 Ruger ammunition would be readily available it would be preferable to the .375 H&H, but I don't know that so I am left with the .375 H&H.

Ron

The 338Ultra retired my 375H&H's and 375H&H AI's.................

"Less well designed H&H"?..????? ??????? Apparently you have not experienced the rigors of what hard, tough hunting can sometimes dish out. Belts, outside of the theoretical realm usually found inside four walls, can actually serve a very useful purpose without hindering anything meaningful. Introduce a bit of wayward dirt, plant debris, or snow into the feed chute of either 375 and see which one chambers its rounds more easily. It's a low percentage deal for most folks perhaps, but when low percentage problems become expected and ordinary, they obviously lose their appeal. Kind of like running a M700 without ever stressing the bolt handle to know whether it would stay or leave under duress.

Written history claims that Holland & Holland first to use a belted ctg was to improve the function of a bolt action rifle.

Belts in most all instances are brainfarts of the grand kind.

Yes...there's plenty of shoulder on the 375H&H to headspace it or it's various Improved versions.

For starters.................

But what about getting decent brass?

Brass availability...argggggg

Frustrating fer me.

I never read about you Alaska folks toting around lever guns in 45/70.

Is there a reason? For a 100 yard thumper it seems to me it is nearly impossible to beat.

Lever guns are junk and the 45/70 hasn't had a leg to stand on since the advent of smokeless powder.

Few look to purposely add difficulty and make concessions...............

I don't know why, but you got me laughing so hard. You know you really should see a head shrinker about your suppressed and inhibited personality! LOL. You should learn to say what you REALLY think! LOL

Actually, there are more than a few lever guns in the 45-70 and 450 configurations which serve in many bear camps as back-up and special duty guns. They work quite effectively for those who can manage their simplicity. You're right, they are quite ideal inside of 100. Of course, with modern powders and loads they're also quite effective considerably farther.

It is what it is and why sugarcoat the suck.

Windshield wipers on a Billy Goat's azz,may sound good in Theory,but ain't quite all that in actuality.

Is a lever gun better than nuttin'? Assuredly. But that ain't much of a Sales Pitch...............

You don't like. Okay. That's doesn't make it bad, wrong, useless, etc. If you must, just say you prefer your Remington bolts or whatever.

More troubling is the fact that this is not your first reference to a goat's back end. What up with that? Mere coincidence or wierd obsession.........?

Sitting here thinking of ALL the stories I have heard over the years of situations where lever guns were involved, and usually in 45-70...

You could not give me one on a bet. Last one that fell in my lap was NIB and I gave it away. The really sad thing is the guy I gave it to thought I gave him something. Even he figured it out eventually!

Marginal at close range and worse than useless when the firefight spreads... Once a critter has been shot at the shooting needs to continue as long as the animal is in sight. Lots of luck with the pumpkins when the distance gets out there at all...

If I had a good 7mm Magnum I would just work up a good load with a big bear/moose capable bullet (i.e. 150 grain TSX, etc) and go find a nice bruin to turn into a rug or Bullwinkle into a wall mount.


With that said I love my .340 Weatherby. Its a rechambered .338 Winchester 700BDL that I bought from John Barsness here at the Campfire.

Recoil wise its not nearly as bad as the two .300RUM I owned and not any worse than my .300 Weatherby.


The .338 RUM I've shot were very accurate but also very brutal on recoil. Something about 250 grains of bullet and 100 grains of powder that takes all the fun out of shooting.

If a .338 is a must go for the .388 Winchester or .340 Weatherby. Or go on up to a .375 H&H or .375 Ruger.

Another consideration is ammo availability in case the airline ships you stuff to Bora Bora instead of Fairbanks.

You could probably find 7MM Magnum , .30/06, .338, or .375 H&H fodder without too much trouble. .338 RUM might be more problematic.

Hillbillybear,
You have a 340?

I knew you was OK!

Yep, I have a one of a kind .340 immortalized in print by JB in the December 2007 (No. 250) issue of Handloader.


I am also currently plotting another .340. I love the .340.

Don't disagree at all with the last part, which is why it hardly makes a first choice as a primary hunting arm, but...



Sounds like 30-06, 300 Mag, 338, etc as well to me....


BTW, you can bring your 340 to Little Diomede and be taken care of even if they lose your ammo. (Just make sure you have a walrus tag. )

I wonder what people get so roused about?

Those who want to use their lever ( ) do so.



Knowing its limitations - but also it strengths.

For dense bush bear they have no peer -

No long range needed - no MOA, no BC 0.5.

Reliability is king, handling paramount. Pointability not a buzz word. One handed carry - hours on end. Boredom - and sudden action. Condition three to one with one flick of the lever. And a 400gr. FN on the way quicker than from any other arm combining the attributes above.

No Mauser, no double can match the combination of handling, reliability and authorative voice of a Marlin 1895 G.

A specialty tool for a special task.

As a universal hunting tool I would recomment else (as I have above).


****************************************

Tim - some minor stuff in your sigline:

"Sprechen sie Spanisch in meiner N�he? Sie k�nnen mich mal am Arsch lecken!" -me

****************************************

Tim - some minor stuff in your sigline:

"Sprechen sie Spanisch in meiner N�he? Sie k�nnen mich mal am Arsch lecken!" -me
[/quote]


CMG,
I know, I saw it on a T-shirt, thought it was funny.
(My German isn't good enough to translate it myself) but I thought it said something along the lines of 'Speaking Spanish? Kiss my a**!'

Last year I bought a LH Rem LSS in 338 RUM, it was too good of a price not to.
THe accuracy was superb, 250Gr. TSX's over max charges of Retumbo or RE22. The recoil was impressive, but nothing too bad.
I never got a chance to try it on game before selling it, but I'm sure it would have been devestating. It came down to the fact that I don't shoot over 250 yards, and I have other rifles that cover that niche just fine with way less recoil.

i have a 338 rum in a 700 bdl ss and it has become my new deer rifle

338RUM for deer? Wow! what kind of deer ya got?

Holy ones.

i dont get near the meat damage with it as my dad does with his 270 and balistic tips

Hoping to head out in about two weeks for deer myself. This thread has me wanting to take my 300 Ultra.

If you want FLEXIBILITY, ditch the full-size magnum ctgs and try a .338/300. I've loaded mine with over 14gr of spread, using XMR4350 and 250gr bullets. With 65gr it recoils like a 10lb .308win; which is to say very mild. With a max load of almost 79gr, it rivals the .338rum which I used to own.

I have a 275gr flat point bullet mold from NEI in .338 that is my go to for mildest shooting. Have been whacked over the eye sighting in with the max load for moose. No biggie. Prone in the gravel pit, rain coming down; moose on the mind... Didn't even need a band-aid much less a stitch.

Look at the .340wby and the .330 Dakota, the .338/300 is their match and comes close to the rum and even the Lapua. Now there is Reloader 17 and it may boost the velocity even more in what is essentially a medium sized case.

Just put a .340wby barrel on my TRG-S as I got this takeoff about new 4yrs ago and what am I waiting for? Have some .300wby cases I can neck up and load, just to give it a try.

Shot a couple 5rd groups under 1" that day in the rain. .338win BDL barrel I reamed to .300win dimension. What is not to like? Excellent and cheap brass. Wide range of power functions. BDL barreled action in a Sendero stock is very damn accurate...

Always the doubt of "Am I using enough gun" up here in the Upper Susitna Valley. Shoot black bears all year long, no limit and one grizzly every 12 mos... Go out the back door never know what you will find...

Am thinking of going .338 Federal in an Armalite AR-10. Have a bunch of 250gr Grand Slams and some Barnes solids... Use enough gun or bring enough ammunition, eh?

If you're looking for a magnum, why not a 300 Weatherby Magnum? I've seen a few of the Southgate Weatherby's (on FN Mauser Actions) for sale over the past 6 months. I almost bought one myself. Since I gave my 270 to my son, I have nothing between my 45 Super Springfield LongSlide and my 500 Jeffrey ... Maybe around income tax time ...



Chuck