I’m a month away from a long sought Alaska moose hunt. I have two choices of rifles and cartridges. A Remington 700 in 338-06AI that shoots 210 Nosler Partitions at 2.800 FPS or a Remington model 7, chambered in 300 WSM shooting 180 train Nosler Partitions at 2,900 FPS. Both are very accurate, but the model 7 weights about 2 pounds less. More recoil, but a quick handling, easy to carry rifle. So, what would you chose.

Whichever one you shoot the best offhand with.

What he said.

Doesn't really matter, either is more than plenty.......shoulders, legs and boots are where it's at. Think power and endurance rather than speed.

Pretty much sums it up. Take lots of pictures.

Less can offer more off hand. Ask yourself which one caries and shoulders best for you in the field conditions. Wish you an amazing trip.

The most reliable of the two.

Minute of moose chest is not a high bar and still plenty good enough.

Sometimes you only have a softball sized opening at the wash tub sized target.

The rifle you feel most comfortable with and are most accurate with quickly from field positions. Hopefully thats also the most reliable of the two.

Don't ever recall that problem with moose.....have had more than a couple instances where I had to wait for a better shot than a washtub sized ass opportunity however. "Threading" a shot has usually involved moving targets which favor the better handling weapon and bullets with good integrity.

A month to go and you haven't got that ciphered out yet?

You're gonna love that trip BTW.

Flip a coin or take both.

I'd go with whichever gives you the most confidence.

30-06

Had to say it.

308, 180 grain Hornady spirepoint Bullets.

I've killed bull moose with recurve bows, 308, 30-06, 300 Win mag, 7mm mag, 7mm STW, and 375 H&H and none died any sooner or quicker than those shot with 308. Well-constructed bullet in the boiler room and you are done. A broadhead through the lungs is probably faster than any of the rifle options mentioned above.

John

In the thicker cover in SE I can see that being a serious issue... and of all the moose I have dealt with I have seen one time where there was no softball sized hole in the cover and a much-too-high shoulder shot was required, and worked, but not particularly well... There were two bulls locked up and under 60 feet. the willows were over six feet.

Little differences in shot placement make big differences in how fast moose die. And a shot through both lungs will virtually always be fatal, but the option of a high shoulder shot is not a valid bow shot, yet a good bullet there will drop a moose virtually instantaneously, virtually every time, with any cartridge you listed.

To the OP: it makes no difference with one of the two rifles you use to hunt moose in Alaska. I favor the .338-06 juts because I like .33-caliber bullets, and use .338's for hunting. Some of my friends kill moose with .270's, .30-06's 7mm Magnums, .375's, and so on. My .338's weight over 8 pounds unloaded. I would not even think about the weight difference unless I was climbing mountains, or walking miles and miles on the tundra.

I hunt with a Tikka T3 Lite. So I would opt for the lighter of the two. Either cartridge is more than what you need to knock over a moose. Of course the .300 WSM will give you range if you can't close the gap.

For me that would be the deciding factor.

Either will shoot plenty flat for moose as long as the OP figures out how flat it does shoot.

All good posts. I have killed more moose off-hand with my Ru77 in .338WM than any other rifle I own, tho the “Stub” - a 17 inch barreled RU77 .30-06 is pushing it hard. Of the 21? moose I have killed( not counting car hit ones with a .22 handgun) only two were over 100 yards, None over 160. A Ford 150, at about 52 feet per second worked also. That’s a close range proposition tho ....🙃

A heavier rifle is easier to shoot accurately.

I've also got a "Stub" .30-06 although mine is a whole 1/2" longer than yours. What kind of loads you use in yours?

Corlokt factory 180 for moose, 150 for lighter game mostly. These are throwaway brass (even as reloads if I do that)as the rifle has a misshaped chamber. Gets 1.5 moa anyway. Should probably rebarrel......

Sounds like a 220gr RN would work just fine for that work.

I've thought of rebarreling to. Had to cut it back because of a bbl bulge. I've got so many assorted .308 caliber bullets (150,165,180) though so I'll probably leave it as is. Going through the 150gr Core-Lokts now.

For moose and bear hunting it makes no difference in Alaska. Now, a sheep hunter would probably want a lightweight rifle because he cannot ride a horse or ATV on some mountains. Two of my hunting friends hunt with 16-pound .300RUM rifles, the same rifles they use for 1,000-yard competitions. But we ride ATV's and UTVs into the areas we hunt, just like a great number of Alaska hunters. The whole thing depends on having to carry a gun up some mountainous trails for many hours, or if you have to go on long hikes.

Anyway, we are beating a long dead horse. 458 Lott already provided the right answer.

That’s how I ended up with a 17 inch barrel also. But then I got it for $80. A new barrel would run the cost way up! 😁. First thing I killed with it was a Dall ram at about 330. Have killed caribou out to about 375. It doesn’t seem to be “ broke”!!! 😏

If a guy is on a "foot-hunt" for moose, the heavier, shorter-shooting rifle might be the better choice. The logic being that one should be less inclined to get as far away and in trouble with it. Carrying a rifle is the least of one's carrying problems if the venison has to be extracted on foot.

That's lobbing them in there. lol

Don't know if you've ever chronographed your "stub" but with the 180gr Federal Power Shok (blue box stuff) I get 2509fps at the muzzle. With 150gr CoreLokt handloads I get 2545fps. Could probably get to 2700 but hardly any advantage in it. According to Nosler 2509(180) and 2700(150) are pretty much max for a 24"bbl 300 Savage.

I've killed lots of moose with calibers from 243 to 425 Express,, most with the 358 Norma though. If I was building a pure moose rifle it would be a Mod 70 Fwt in 35 Whelen shooting 250gr Hornady RN. Most shot run from 75yds to 150yds,,this combo would be a hammer!

I'd say ...New rifle time ...go buy a '06

this

My NWT moose was DRT at the shot! Guide asked me "where did he go"!

338-06 225 gr nosler partition.

Mtn caribou same results.

Where they both CNS shots?

I've seen two moose and one caribou stand up without flinching to good lung hits with a 375Magnum. They all did die, but were not bang flops as most think should happen.

^^^^This^^^^ And to add to it, Nosler Partitions have always worked well for me.

I'd go with the WSM as you can get ammo for it if you have luggage issues. I haven't seen 338-06 on the shelf. If you can preship a supply to your guide, I'd like the heavier bullet of the '06.

The moose was caribou not.

Very expensive to ship ammo to AK... we do not have anything they call "ground" so it has to come by barge and the minimum weight to make it reasonable is measured in hundred pound units... It is pretty much a bring it in your baggage or buy it here proposition.

Moose will stand and soak up many bullets that are either not CNS or double leg take-downs. Caribou will often tip over with a single lethal shot that is neither. (....though not always). Pretty unusual for a non-CNS or double leg shot on moose to tip one over at the shot....seen it only twice.

I like what Ray posted on the caliber and the cartridge, my friends in Alaska like to use a 7 Rem. Mag. so when I go with them that`s what cartridge I`ll use but I still like a 26 barrel on my rifle, don`t fool yourself a longer barrel generally does have better ballistics, in a 7 caliber bullet its 26 inch barrel.

No moose will ever have any clue how long the barrel was... if you don't get it all tangled up in brush and actually get to shoot.

I like them very short and will gladly pass on the little bit of velocity for handy.

Oh I`ll get a one shot kill with my handloads,if I can kill elk bulls with my bow , bull moose with a good rifle with the guys am going with, it will happen,i`ll be up there for a month.this won`t be my 1st rodeo nor my last. > as far as myself being tuff enough I worked as lineman for 35 years climbing poles for a REA in northern Minnesota I`ve seen it all wet,dry,cold,wind,tornadoes ,snow, all nighters climbing poles,brush ,trees,bugs and dang animals too.ever cut a tree off a 60 foot pole you had to climb to the top with a chain saw and start cutting tree off pole ? probably not, a 26 barrel on a rifle will be much easier for a me to handle.

Of course you will.

That was mean. And really funny......

Muley crazy

What have you learned?

Pretty sure you misunderstood Art’s post.

Pete's the talkin' type - not the listenin'/readin'/comprehendin' type.

Careful there Scott. He sounds pretty manly.

While I have seen moose stand taking more than one shot, I have had a few one-shot and real fast kills using a .338WM. One was shot with a 230-grain FS thought the lungs. On the way in the bullet clipped the arteries at the top of the heart, broke the far shoulder bone, and stopped at the hide were one of my friends found it. Another moose dropped to a 250-grain A-Frame through the lungs, and then hit the far shoulder bone. Then I have had several one shot kills (but a little slower to drop by the time the rifle chamber was reloaded)-with a 225-grain Barnes 3-Shock, and another moose with a Federal 250-grain NOS HE though the lungs. This bullet was loaded quite fast by Federal, but it's not longer produced. The moose took a short step forward after the bullet hit, and dropped on its chest. When we opened the chest cavity we noticed that the bullet had broken to pieces in the lungs, leaving behind a very small hole on the far side of the chest.

One of my friends was calling moose with a few grunts, and this moose walked in behind and unnoticed by my friend. The moose was about 20 yards away staring at him, but it was so close that he could not look though the riflescope. He shot it one time though the lungs while pointing the rifle at the moose (7mm Magnum rifle). The bullet hit, and the moose dropped right there.

But a long time ago another friend of mine shot a moose through the lungs 4 times using his .300WM, and the moose stood there, very dead but still standing 150 yards away. He reloaded his rifle, and the moose dropped before he could take another shot. I have no idea how that moose was standing for so long, since the bullets left a huge hole though the lungs and hide. We just could not believe it, but it was true.

Okkkkkkaaayyyyyyyyyy.................

I have not chronied anything, ever. No need to if one knows the drops at range. Of course, one should know the range.

Both the sheep and caribou mentioned above, were pre range finder. With the sheep, I was broke and had just a few rounds after checking for group right after whacking the barrel - 4 inches high at 100. So i did not change scope setting. I figured that would compensate for the length - then I forgot about it ! I normally sight in 2 1/2 to 3" high at 100. I had a 3 way range estimate- eyeball, map contours, and duplex cross hairs -all agreed it was 300-350 yards. So I held high....just over hair, and put the first bullet a quarter inch above his spine. He went down, then started pulling himself along on front legs. Held for hair and put the second one 5 inches below the first one. He disappeared, and I found him a quarter mile away and 1500 feet lower. a couple fellows who were watching, and that I ran into a year later, told me he went end over end, and rolling the whole way down. When I got to him, I gave him a boost and he went another couple hundred yards, ending up 30 yards off the trail out- only about 3 miles.

I figured the caribou (I said 375- but IIRC, it was about 356 long paces across open alpine), was 300, and held for hair -sighted in 2 1/2"high at 100). Hit his brisket, sending either a piece of the bone, or bullet slashing open the heart. Found the jacket in his off-side knee (Corelokt.)

The sheep, and a moose taken at 70 yards four days later (one thru the lungs,standing broadside, the 2nd spined, running, thru a "washtub- sized hole in the brush" after he bolted) were both with 180 grain Fed Power Shock. All 4 bullets came apart virtually on impact. Very accurate ammo in my guns, but I don't use them for hunting after that. That was probably my shortest "hunting season", ever!

Most of my moose kills have used 2 shots- one to droop, and another to the back of the head from a few feet out. I scart myself......twice ...by not doing this.... . In thick cover, if I can get it, I use a CNS shot on moose. Saves all kinds of trouble/worry.... Still use 2 shots tho.

Well, I understand the passion each of us have for our favorite cartridge. So do I. Thanks for all of the input, now I’m down to range time to find which is the most consistent with the rounds that have the most accuracy. Thanks to each and everyone of you who gave input. It was both interesting and entertaining.

I don't know how you guys are able to shoot all these Boomers? I was just told on another thread that there is no way I could even shoot a 7mm Remington Mag accurately. Too much recoil. Apparently if I show up in Montana with a 7 mag I'll wound everything? It seems that a 6.5 Creedmoor is the most a man can hope to control these days?

You say that like the thread just died. Patience grasshopper!

I love when people throw out the old hometown geography. This is right up there with, “Well, back in P.A.” Bwahahaha!

LOL... Grasshopper still watching/reading/learning. Grasshopper out.

Mike, given your recent health situation, I'd think you'd give up talking this kind of schitt. No one needs a magnum to kill animals. That was the only point. If you glanced down, and somehow felt bad about your manhood, don't blame the rest of us.

I mentioned before somewhere that the word "Magnum" does not mean much these days. Can you shoot a Marlin .45-70 rifle that has plush recoil pad? This cartridge produces enough recoil, but it does not have "Magnum" on the head-stamp. You can say the same for a lot of other cartridges, too. If you have problems with the recoil of a .338WM, perhaps you can shoot a .338-06, or a .35 Whelen, both which are just fine for hunting moose in Alaska. Also, there is nothing wrong with a .30-06, which in fact may be the number one cartridge with Alaska hunters. By the way, the wife of one of my former supervisors develops loads and shoots his .338WM rifles at the range, and I have seen a very small lady (petite) at the Fairbanks range shooting a .375H&H that's loaded with Federal 300-grain NOS Partition ammo.

If I had ah 338-06 setting in the safe, regardless of the weight or group size, or whatever, i'd surely grab that to head north. Quartering towards or quartering away shots aren't something you'd pass up with a good 338 caliber rifle. I never did feel comfortable talking with hunters about thinking beyond 30 caliber though, when talkin bear and moose. People get kinda mad at yah.

Because of the standard length of the cartridge, I'd go for a nice 280 grain swift a-frame at 2300-2400 fps. They open up real well at lower velocity, and penetrate nicely. Can take the whole front end out, with no bloodshot meat. That way there, ole bull moosey won't try to beeline for a swamp hole, or back into the river.

I caught a 55 incher with a 275 grain woodleigh from a 358 Winchester, caught a 56 incher with the same load the following year. I always shuck the lever for a second shot if I can. With the big moose, I never did subscribe to that romanticized "one shot one kill", bllsht either. Of those four 275 grainers, one of the woodleighs didn't expand. I suspect not enough lead exposed at the tip for lower velocity cartridges. I've since switched to A-frames and much happier with expansion.

Last year's 40 incher I caught, the 300 grain Swift a-frame from my 9.3 expanded fully on the bull, bout 500 yds away. Quartering away, bullet drove clear through moose, found in the forearm against hide. Never did get a second shot in him, he was already on his way down before I took aim.

Big bull moose can really take some lethal shots, and run or stand for quite some time. Weirdest thing I've ever seen: big bull moose shot four fingers width low, from behind the ear, square through the neck, with a brenneke black magic 12 gauge slug. Fell down, bled all over. Came to (when least expected), got up, and ran 1/2 mile. Was still alive when caught up to, bedded down, and got back up to run again, finally killed at 20 yds. After witnessing that, I never did go for that neck-shot stuff.

Out of my respect for the shear tenacity of what I've witnessed of the big warrior bull moose, I always scratch my head bout folks who down play them, or claim that they always die easy with any ole deer bullet. What the hide, bone and meat can do to a deer bullet too.

Few years back, my buddy Steve caught a cow moose with the standard 338 RCM 225 grain sst load factory load (all they sell). It went all of 8 inches into the cow and fragmented like a hollow-point. Bloodshot the whole entry side of front quarter. He thought it'd work well, since it worked well on caribou. Few years back, he bought some 280 grain swift a-frames to hand-load in his little 338 RCM, but hasn't got out for moose since I don't think.

Other hunters here in AK have caught big ole bulls with old 30 cal bullets in em. One hunter caught an ole bull with a pussed-up 270 caliber expanded bullet lodged in the neck bone.

Never really got too caught up on velocity, but sure have admired what these heavy/medium-bore partitions, a-frames and woodleighs do at 2200-2400 fps. Not magic or anything........but close!

Well let's take a look at the 175gr NPT started out of a 7mm at 2800fps and zeroed at 200 yards. It will strike the 300 yard mark at approximately 7.5" below the line of sight.

Conversly, let's chop the barrel until velocity drops to 2600fps (200fps slower) and maintain that same 200 yard zero wherein the bullet will strike the 300 yard mark at approximately 9" below the line of sight.

That is a difference of 1 1/2 "

You would have to be able to shoot better than Kirsten Joy Weiss In order to discern the difference.... and something tells me you don't.

"...dont fool yourself..." into thinking a 26" barrel is going to somehow give you an advantage.

The folks that live and hunt here, and that have have offered kind and sound advice to you, believe it or not, actually DO have a clue.

T'were I you, and I'm not, I'd be putting my listening ears on.

Very good response to this thread. Agree with you 100%. Another cartridge that should work for moose is the 7mm-08. But there is no denying that a heavy and relatively slow bullet (275-300-grains) does quite well within 200 yards. I know a fellow (see him each moose season as he stops by my campsite on his way to his). He uses a Marlin .45-70 with express sights (no scope). He hunts in the spruce thickets, near his campsite, and calls-in moose within 100 yards, more or less, and takes one just about each season.

Ray, thanks. Yah sounds like a good hunting spot. I never have found a spot like that to take my breath away, where u come back every year. I've been looking for one ah those!

Been finding good moose always by canoe. But never found that place I ever wanted to return to. Guess I get restless, always need to run new river. This year will be the upper Kobuk.

Then again when in winter when I run the Kobuk 440 dog race.

Ray, these common medium bores are surely a 300 yd. gun aye?:

338 federal, 338-06, 338 RCM, 338 win mag, 358 winchester, 35 whelen, 358 norma, 9.3x62, 9.3x64, 375 Ruger, 375 H&H.

My 9.3X62 wears an FX-II 6X36 with LR reticle. It works pretty well.

Luckily with mine both the 250 Accubond at 2650 fps and the 286 NP at 2475 fps have the same point-of-impact at 100 yards, and are zeroed to be 2 1/2" high at that range. The zero is at 225 yards with the Accubond, closer to 200 yards with the NP.

With that zero, they are never more than 3" above line of sight. With the 250AB the dots are on at 300 and 375 yards,the post at 475. With the 286NP the dots are on at 275 and 350 yards, the post at 425.

As much as I like the 338-06 (338-06 AI), if given the option, I'd roll with the 2 lb lighter, more compact, and more readily available ammo Model 7 in 300 WSM...

...and I'd shoot the heck out of it (off hand) before I headed Northward.



Best to you.

When did moose hunting rifle have to be lightweight? My moose rifles all weigh empty around 7 1/2 lbs.. Anyhow I take either one but if something goes sideways ie forget 338-06 ammo at home you are screwed unless you find a forum member up here that could square up on using there press. So I would opt for the 300 WSM..

That's true about ammo that's not locally found.

My newest Ruger Hawkeye weights over 8 pounds empty. I asked MacMillan to make sure I didn't get a lightweight stock, and the response was, "the stock I am making for your .338WM is designed to be as heavy as possible to help with recoil." The same can be said about a .375H&H, as out of the box is not lightweight. But that extra weight helps with recoil.

So you build an extra cumbersome rifle to handle the recoil you would not need to worry about with a more modest and equally deadly cartridge... got it...

No further health issues or "manhood" problems. Thanks for your concern. Doc says I should be able to shoot anything up to a "50 caliber sniper rifle".

I don’t have the volume of experience of many on here who have commented above, and I accept the wisdom of all of your experiences. Another point I would make is that there are, by one measure, two different types of Alaskan moose hunting (among others): (1) a fairly-routine moose hunt by an Alaskan resident in a relatively convenient place that can be repeated from year to year and even multiple times within the year; and, at the other extreme, (2) an expensive and rare moose hunt opportunity by a nonresident who must sacrifice a lot of resources to make it happen.

I fell into the latter category a few years ago and was extremely fortunate to have a successful hunt. A few years before that, I was fortunate to have a successful bear hunt. I haven’t yet gone back a third time though I want to, in part, because I have shifted the resources I might have used to make that happen to purchasing some hunting land in Colorado.

In my last AK hunt, I went big, and brought a .340 Wby that I shoot really well, loaded with 225gr TTSX bullets with a 3,160 fps MV.

The second 11-day hunt was limited because of some really foul weather. Before the bad weather (and I mean ridiculously bad), we saw a couple of shootable bears, but couldn’t get within range; saw some other non-shootable moose and bears; and saw a bunch of caribou that I could not hunt in that area as a nonresident. After the bad weather lifted, we had to begin rafting our way down river to get to the pick-up place. I was still hunting from the raft, but the best opportunities already had passed, and I was comfortable justifying the trip and expense as a pleasant and challenging experience. It was the last day of moose season when we began our trip down river. At roughly 3:30pm that day, a giant moose presented himself about 80 yards away or so in a clearing covering about a half-acre or so, and he was running like mad for some nearby cover. I had less than a second to think about anything, but in a fraction of that second, I felt like I could hit the vitals in the front half of the torso of that large, fast-moving creature. I did so three times in a few seconds. With each shot, the moose slowed down a bit more and allowed me to put the two follow-up shots with increasingly-selective placement. After the third shot, he ran through some brush away from me and all but disappeared, except that I could see the tops of his antlers about 25 yards away from where he was shot, and they were wavering and then dropping out of view.

The first two shots hit in the center ribs, and I am pretty sure it was the third one that hit the near shoulder, went through the far shoulder, and stopped under the hide on the far side. The first two shots exited.





All three entrance wound areas are visible here; all three shots hit a little further back than I intended, likely because I didn't lead as much as I should have give the speed at which the moose was running from left to right:



It took a lot to put that guy down. I don’t know how far he would have gone if I had hit him only with the first shot, but decided then in a millisecond that I wasn’t going to find out. I also don’t know if I had hit him in the same places with something else, what would have happened. But, if I had, for example, a .243 Win, I doubt that I would have felt ethical in taking that first shot at a large running moose, where I couldn’t precisely place my bullet within the front part of that moose body. Would the moose have slowed down as much after the first and second shots to allow me to place each subsequent shot with increasing precision if shot with a .243? With .270? My son successfully took a deer last fall with his .243. I took one the next day with my .308. Both worked, but there was a big difference in the wound channels. There are many cartridges in between a .243 and a .340 with which I would feel comfortable taking that first shot at the moose of a lifetime (at least for me), but I’m not sure where I would draw that line. As a person who doesn’t get to hunt moose regularly, I am glad that, when the monster appeared, I was possibly over-gunned, rather than under-gunned. I’m glad that I now am curious about what some lesser calibers may or may not have done to that moose, rather than possibly fretting for years about whether I could have successfully anchored a lost moose if I had brought something bigger.

I shoot that .340 well at the range (usually well under an inch), especially with a shoulder pad when shooting a decent volume. With the pad, my shoulder never bruises even in the slightest even when I shoot 30-40 rounds in a session. Any non-bruising recoil just doesn’t bother me. I carry a lighter rifle when back-pack hunting. But, I’m in good shape and don’t have any trouble carrying that .340 when carrying only a daypack or the equivalent.

If I was an AK resident and could regularly and routinely hunt bear, moose, caribou, sheep, etc … there, I probably would never have bought and spent so much time practicing with the .340. YMMV.

I know that I am going to catch some flak from some for suggesting that anything more powerful than a .270 ever could be advantageous for hunting an animal that weighs up to 1,800 lbs. But, I think it conceivably could be true for a nonresident who won’t get to hunt moose 15 or more days a year every year a short distance from home.

I have a hard time understanding how a bullet from a resident is different from a nonresident bullet...

Or, for that matter, whether the hunter gets one day per year or the whole season.

I'd be a lot less disappointed if I had to pass up a shot if I had plentiful opportunities to hunt moose in the near and extended future, than I would if I couldn't go back for years.

I know it’s controversial, but I think different cartridge/bullet combinations can have different impacts on an animal. The above-mentioned difference between the .243 and .308 on deer was one illustration of that. Others may disagree, but I wouldn’t have taken that first shot I took with, say, a 150gr .270 bullet going 2,850 fps (MV). The .340 flings a bullet that is 50% bigger (cross section) and 50% heavier at a velocity that is 10% faster. I felt comfortable taking that shot with the .340 that I would have passed up with a .270. That’s just me. That would have left me wishing I had a bigger gun if that was one of a few days I could moose hunt during a period of many years. Less so, if I could spend much more time in the field looking for another, or even the same, moose. I think there is more at stake the rarer and more expensive the opportunity is.

Perhaps you, as usual in this forum, are imagining something that isn't? The rifle I am referring to is already heavy, even with its 22" barrel. It is a Ruger Hawkeye African model that has a beautiful walnut stock. I replaced the stock with a McMillan fiberglass one, that with a decelerator recoil pad installed, fits my LOP. This rifle is not cumbersome at all, and in fact its heftiness does help with recoil. I am certain that you are old enough to have at least heard of the great number of published articles that relate to taming rifle recoil, and that rifle weight is one of the methods used...

remarkable story MH. So what i'm gathering, is that bull took five shots from your 338 cal. That "one shot-one kill" bs is silly, isnt it?? I'm certain you too, have developed a heightened appreciation for what these big warrior moose are capable of handling. You ever thought of a little more bullet weight? The big warriors don't care too much about velocity. Slow that big behemoth of a cartridge down, with some more bullet weight.

Fastest kill I've ever experienced on a big bull: a 275 grainer at a modest 2200 fps(358 winchester), head on charging shot. Quick shuck of the levah # 2 threaded behind the ear as the big warrior struggled to raise his head.

Never always a picturesque, standing broadside shot aye?

Tells yah what, we moose hunters oughtta band together a bit, and convince these cape buffalo hunters that bull moose don't always die easy. Stakes are high when they don't........

I've been getting mighty intrigued at the thought of a handy 45 cal rifle someday, on the standard action. That darn bear guide, Phil, writting those articles about the ole 458 win mag. Some dreamy sht right there.

79s, far as this lightweight madness, I like the way you think! I swear, some cartridges just aren't made to be ultra light. I dunno, it's some sort of urban, granola sickness I think. Guy in a Patagonia puffy jacket tells his buddy at mooses tooth pub: "I think your rifle looks fat". He immediately runs to the bathroom, stick his finger down his throat, vomits up his artisan pizza, runs home and immediately orders a Macmillan ultralight stock.

My 358 is glorious as a light gun with a simple fixed 2.5 ultralight scope. Recoil aint bad. The ole 9.3, a full power 300 grain load from the 7.5 lbs rifle is fierce but tolerable. wouldn't want it any lighter. The recoil from my 7.75 lbs 1895 browning chambered in my 41 caliber wildcat shooting 350 grain A-frames, just a dream to shoot, more so than my 7.5 all-around moose gun.

Those little 308 family ah cartridges, perfect ultralights, aye??

Gentleman, cartridge size , barrel length and weight of the rifle depends on each persons size ,strength and endurance .so no rifle and cartridge will make or fit every person the same way, another thing some people just will never man up .

Mainer, I shot him 3 times in about 3 or 4 seconds, which was the only window I had. I don't know if just the first shot would have done as well, which is possible. But, after taking the first shot, I kept shooting as fast as I could because I was more concerned about keeping him close than worrying about meat loss, which was fairly marginal, given the 900 + lbs of meat. Statistically, I have little chance of even seeing another moose that sized in the wild. I shot this bear with more weight-- a 300gr NP out of a .375 Wby. It certainly did the job immediately. I'm sure it would have worked as well or better on the moose.

It's really hard to argue with a personal decision made with good reason.

With that said, however, there is enough shared experience to support the comparable killing ability of lots of non magnum cartridges. I recently had to defend my camp from an Alaskan mountain grizzly with a 130 ttsx from a 308, and I am happy to report that he couldn't have died any sooner unless shot in the head. There are just so many variables that do into turning out the lights on a large animal, that the only way to go wrong is to get stuck on just one of them.

Good points.

Another example is the bear Phil (.458) shot in self defense with a 9mm pistol. There are too many variables involved. Somewhere above .458 said something like this: "use whichever gun you are most comfortable with." Then there are times where the best defense is whatever you have at hand at the moment. The bottom line is that every one of us has different opinions, likes, and dislikes, about guns and calibers; but in reality none of that matters but to oneself. The other person does not think exactly like I do.

I started hunting late in life, at the age of 46 when retiring from the military in Alaska. After a lot of research among coworkers, friends, and other Alaskans, I chose the .338WM. This was the first hunting gun I ever had, and the one I became "comfortable' with it. I could very well use another gun caliber, but for some reason I feel that if it's is not broken I don't need to fix it.

There is nothing wrong with other person hunting with a .308, .30-06, or a .458 Lott, a light rifle or a heavy one, and so on.

Thank you, Provincial Pete.

akmtnrunner - very well stated.

Dang, I call 30 cals: lucky charms. Work when you want them to, sometimes don't work when you least expect it. Lucky charms:

Remember few years back when Doug shot Eric with a 180 grain core lokt fired from a 30-06?? Hit him in chest? Ole Eric (never new middle aged men from the city were that tough), hollars down to doug after taking a semi-center mass shot: "You hit me!"

Ole eric still alive.

30 cal: lucky charms!

Wait, what??????

Okay, change the word "build" to "select"... I initially chose build because you modified it and used recoil taming as a reason for your selection. There is no way a Hawkeye African is as light and handy as an ordinary commercial rifle with a 22" barrel. It simply is not. I am more than a little familiar with the concept of taming recoil. When building stocks for rifles with potentially sharp or heavy recoil I start with cast to mitigate recoil. If it needs weight I can add it, but it still comes back to selecting a rifle with potential recoil issues for questionable gains at that increased "cost" of compromises.

So at 6'4" and 240 I should not use a featherweight 243 for anything? Good to know...

+1

Well maybe some like smaller rifles and can`t handle much recoil ? myself and many others still prefer a heavier rifle and a Ruger Hawkeye sounds good too,just man up and handle it.

Go get 'em there Big Fella!

Laughing!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, but Alaska Airlines will let you ship 50 lbs per bag, ammunition only, if you prefer! . 3 bag limit in Alaska....

I'm gonna use the Rem 725 in .260 with 140 gr Corelokts on my next moose. Hunt. Next year. Likely won't hunt moose at all this year- freezer full of Kotzebue caribou. I stocked up before I moved!

So what is the diff between a .260, 140 gr, and a .308 150 gr, or 7mm 140 gr? Well, a dead critter ain't gonna tell you, that's for sure!

Left the .260 in CO a week or so back for an upcoming October elk hunt, but with a broken pin-in extractor. Just ordered new one (700- should fit) an hour or so ago. Brought the bolt back to fix. Likely take the 700-243 bolt back down with me as well- same headspace, according to the field gauge. Can't find my go/no go gauges - but then, I'm a "generalist"......

.260 was bang flop in my last cow elk - and a bunch of caribo before and since. No reason it won't work on a moose...

Caliber-anoia is way over-rated. Whether or not you can actually shoot....

But make darned sure you have it in an approved ammo container (or containers if you're bringing 50 pounds).

What - you mean a burlap bag won't do?

No, I did not "build" that rifle. I chose the McMillan synthetic stock because I don't want to mess up the beautiful walnut one during the moose seasons in the interior of Alaska, not because of its weight. However, the McMillan stock is slightly heavier than the wood stock, and solid fiberglass all the way through, and they built it for me. I didn't want a lightweight stock, since extra weight does help with recoil, and so I asked McMillan. On top of that, a gunsmith friend of mine measured my LOP, and the stock was built to my LOP with a decelerator recoil pad as part of this LOP. I did not build the rifle I mentioned above. It is a Ruger Hawkeye African that is exactly the same as the one shown in the link below, except that it has a sort of dark matte gray color, does not have a muzzle brake, has a 22" barrel, and express sights. The bolt is also finished with the same gray color, and the rifle weights 8 pounds empty.

https://ruger.com/products/HawkeyeAfrican/specSheets/47120.html

Again, those are your assumptions. I only have two hunting rifles, both Ruger .338WMs and that's what I because familiar with since I retired from the military in the early '90s. I select my handguns and rifles the way I want them, not based on anybody else's opinions other than my gunsmith's. But this guy would never tell others what rifle and caliber they should choose. I am quite used to the .338WM's recoil. I have other rifles, but the .338's are the ones I use for hunting.

Nor do vac-sealed bags. And flimsy factory paper boxes trump hinged plastic boxes among some counter 'people'. (BTW, some in the TSA prefer to open shotshell boxes through the glued bottoms. )

I noticed that... whatcha git wit 30 day TSA "immigrants" out in the Bush. Some last longer. Or are repeaters - suckers for punishment maybe.

Actually a few of them are regular "fellows" - male or female. Linda was always good for a hug Kotzebue or Anchorage. when I saw her. Sometimes a piece of cake in Kotz when she was there , whether I was an AK Air employee (now "civilian" ) or her fellow TSA coworkers. She makes good cakes!

Probably a rule against that somewhere....

benefits of small towns. I dug out and unstuck one of the counter girl's cars after a snow storm in ADQ, thereafter there often seemed to be an uncharged first-class seat available to at least Seattle when I went outside. Of course, first class from ADQ to ANC was kinda just like 2nd and 3rd class. But dang, I miss it!

>>yes, thank you very much

That's all true, Las

A good shot works while a bad shot may not, regardless of caliber. Choose a good load that is appropriate for the game hunted, and the rest is all to the person taking the shot. Also, good luck on your side is always helpful, because sometimes things don't work as one wants it to.

Take them both or either one, you have plenty of rifle, just shoot straight.

OK this is some thing i have never seen commented on but at one time i read a document that was recored and studied that determined it make a decise difference on an animals expiration time due to the fact of if the heart was on an inbound or outbound pulse. To be honest I do not remember what beat of the heart affected the out come from the study how ever there was a vast difference in effect of the animals ability to expire,

Don't believe it...

I always try to steer 'em on the outbound breath, but I have a real hard time figuring out what their heart is doing.

This only comes into play when one is hunting with big, heavy, long, cumbersome, magnablasters.

Sensible rifles and cartridges have no issue shutting down BP whether the heart is pumping on the intake or out going, almost magically

I just use a 30-06.

The left ventricle is the main blood pumper to major parts of the body and a higher pressure pump that can operate against
a much higher peripheral resistance....right ventricle is a pump ideally suited to lower pressure disposal of blood against a
low peripheral resistance...physics would say that a left ventricle full of blood and under higher operating chamber pressure
would offer a potentially more explosive 'water jug' effect if hit by a projectile.

If you know how to blindly determine when what is taking place and to time a bullets arrival ....combined with learning to shoot between
your own heart beats, you would be on to a winner....

..you may also be interested in a package deal that includes hydro-static shock theory and a free set of steak knives.

I prefer Stainless and synthetic. Not uncommon to have bad weather. However, blue will do. I've mostly used a 338WM. I like the caliber. Nothing mysterious about it. I have seen some bang, flops, but I will certainly say not all of them have been. You don't always get a perfect shot. Hence you won't always get perfect shot placement. My best bull was in some thick trees facing away from me and looking back over his shoulder. 2 shots with my 375 H&H did the job. As many have said use the rifle, you shoot well and are confident in, and a premium bullet.

Did...did anyone else catch the Doug shot Eric thing a page back? Wtf lol

Got my moose yesterday afternoon with a 30-06.

Cool! Congrats.
26" barrel, right?

Had to be, since a 26" barrel reduces the range to the moose by .111 yard compared to the typical 22-inch barrel. That makes a vast difference in killing power.

The bullet gets there WAY faster too.

Was out looking for moose yesterday, Had my Ruger 77 LH 35 Whelen IMP., and wife had her RH Ruger 77 338 RCM no bulls to be found so far.

22”, 180g partition, ~ 280yds.

35 Whelen is an excellent cartridge.

I 7WSM'd mine this year. Under 100 yards.

7WSM'd a grizzerly bear about a month ago, and he remains dead as hell too.....

Are you sure that’s possible? Better check that bear for signs of life. I read on the Internet........

At your advice I went and checked...

33 days after the kill. Nothing touched the carcass which I thought was weird. No soft tissue remaining, which... holy crap that seems fast, but I guess a bear might carry some pretty special gut bugs.

Stomach contents appear to have been 99% moose and caribou hair.

Thank you for you efforts toward ungulate enhancement.

I’d have to admit that bear looks fairly dead 💀. Tks for checking

The 35 Whelen did the trick on this one Saturday morning.

Mmmm tasty. Any bull unit, there is one down the road from us, going to have to snoop around some. While I'd still like a 65 plus for the wall to make the 51 look tiny..... I do like to eat.

Chris
Did you check to see if an orange-bladed knife can be seen through the scapula?

Awesome!

You owe me a cup of coffee and a keyboard!

I have kilt moose with .264 mag and .300 H&H.

It's all fun until some dumb son of a bitch goes and shoots a frizzin' moose!

My SAKO L61R 338/06AI killed mine with no fuss, no muss! Don't know how you get 2800 fps. Nosler 210 Part. run at just under 2700 fps! Shoots bug hole groups though!

Rifle first, bullet second, cartridge third.

Mart nice one...

kinda looks like one I got a few years back, except I had a lousy photographer.
375 H&H did the trick

Thank you sir. Spotted him fifty yards off the trail in pretty thick brush. He acted like he thought we were a couple of moose. I grunted at him to get a look at him through the binocular. I thought he had three brow tines. While holding the binocular on him I grunted a couple more times and he started coming straight at us. I saw he had three brow tines and he gave me a slightly quartering to shot so I lined up on the the shoulder where I thought the spine would be and sent an old 275 grain Hornady round nose his direction. He dropped on the spot at 35 yards.

I never found the bullet other than a tiny shard of jacket and lead where the bullet passed through the on side shoulder blade. I cut and wrapped the the moose myself and never found it despite there not being an exit hole. I was hoping to recover it as that's the first game I've shot with that bullet.

I need to find me unit 14 bull too shoot.. but the usual places overloaded with hunters.. baldy, zerooake, Hatcher pass etc.

dang now there's video of me on the internet. pretty swell duds I sport though eh?

Taking the boat up next week for a moose/black bear/wolf/deer hunt on Kuiu. It will be the 6.5 Creed with 147 ELDM.

Who wants to go?

I used my 7 wsm this year as well to kill a 56" moose at 6:30 AM opening day at 150 yards . One shot and done. Later that day my buddy used a 6.5 CM to shoot a 51" at 330 yards...again one and done.

Now I don't have as much moose experience as many here with only seeing 70 moose killed with roughly 50 in the last 15 years, but I have not seen them really be the "old warriors" that many have seen.

In my limited experience moose die very easy. Most hit well will take the shot and take a couple steps and then takes roughly 15-30 seconds for the lungs to fill up and they fall over. Doesn't seem to matter if its a 243, 308, 30-06, 300 WSM, 300 WM, 338 WM, 375 HH, or 45/70 by and large the results are the same in my experience.

So take the rifle you like best and rock on and don't over think it.

Oh yeah my 7 WSM is a 27" barrel chassis rifle that is cumbersome as the day is long. I was wishing for my 21" barrel 338-06 or 16" barrel 308, but again it worked out fine. Just not ideal for off hand shots in the brush with a 6X scope haha. I will be building a 300 WSM with a 21" barrel this winter though to compliment the 338-06.

Heya Luke, wowsa, congrats on the moose!! Youre in good company with the ole 7mm caliber. I remember reading an article in one of the reloading manuals, written by John Nosler Sr. He wrote that the next partition he put together, was for his 7mm mag, and the that 7mm rifles were always his favorite. I've never heard of a chassis rifle, what the heck is that?!

Can't rember where I read it, but a guy was talking last year on one of these forums, that he put a 225 grain swift a-frame through a small bull moose. Lay there for a good while, then when he go close, darn bull popped right up ready for a fight! I'd bet that would work better than coffee.

Anyhoo, time to shift gears to mileing up dogs. Been running morning and night circuits all week, finally cold enough. Hopefully by fall time, these jack a$$es start following their gee and haww commands round here, or else I'll have to borrow a chassis rifle for one of em.........

HAHA....exactly. Kinda proves my point. It went right through and left great exit hole through the lungs but hit a bit low so they didn't filll up as well. Where as a 243 hit perfectly in the lungs it would have been a non issue. He wasn't exactly ready to fight though he was pretty wobbly legged....not exactly an exciting thing. Placement is first and foremost certainly, I still maintain that moose aren't hard to kill as most standard cartridges used will work. Most often than not if someone asks if such as such cartridge will work my usual reply is "yup that'll work too" hardly need a 250-350 grain bullet to kill these things, but again... yup those will work too.

Good luck to ya this winter with the dog. I am sure you'll keep them guys in line for sure.

Thanks for posting this great post. Yes : some feel a shorter barrel is best for moose and maybe so ? when I buy this standard Remington 700 7 mag.ss 26 inch barrel I may sell when I am done using this rifle ? so I will buy and use what sells best at my shop The Alaskan moose hunters I will be with prefer and like to use a 7 rem. mag. so that`s what I will use, caliber-cartridge I don`t care I am flexible on what cartridge to use in a bolt rifle ,but it will be with my handloads and a Nightforce scope . Have I hunted moose nope but I have killed plenty deer,elk ,pigs,black bears with a bow and arrow,so when I go to Alaska with a rifle I think I will do just fine and my sharp knife will do the rest.

Yup, that'll work too.

My long barrel 7 Mag would be one of my LAST choices for a dedicated moose rifle, but it worked no doubt.

Best of luck on your hunt.

THANK YOU and I sure did enjoy what you posted, I am also surprised not much negative posts yet or cocky ones either ? I guess your knowledge has slowed them down some.

At this point in this thread, we need someone to C&P the post from artsy’s buddy from AOD about where to shoot a moose depending on how far you want it to walk.

You left out the parts about which direction it will walk in, too...

Go find it! It was hilarious!

That got scrubbed a long time ago... I believe he was the first, last, and only "Poster of the Year" over there. The Power went to his head though!

That and the "Ballistic Guru" Murph that does not know how bullets stabilize... made the place great for laughing at the ridiculous.

Besides I got banned for explaining how stuff really worked.

That makes sense.

I've only read this one page of comments, but I'll add that I will be going back to a 338 caliber next year. I decided to moose hunt with my 6.5CM this year and ended up shooting one near the river. It collapsed at the shoulder shot (127 lrx), but managed to get up and into the river before I could put another in his neck. Did manage to wrangle him to shore and butcher him in thigh deep glacial water.

On dry land the Creed would be no problem, but on the river, I'll take the 210 grain bullet

I wonder how many of those would be prevented by moving up a bit in diameter. I would guess some, but not as many as many think.

What will you move up to when one gets in the river after one or more of the 210 grainers?

As they say in real estate...

Best just pack some dry tinder and a towel...

Pittu,

I'm not certain 210 grain bullets would accomplish what you're trying to do, which is instantaneous anchoring of a moose. The 210 grain will act much like the 30 caliber magnums and 180 grainers, with excessive velocity, essentially turning meat to a bloodshot mess with the wrong shot. If you slow that bugger down with a 250 grainer or better yet, a Swift 275 grainer, you'll have better luck cleanly knocking out bone.

Two of the quickest kills I've had on big bull moose, was sending a 275 grain woodleigh clear through both front quarters of a 55" racked bull. Another was a head-on shot that hit the base of the neck, busted a bunch of bone, and was found stuck in the diaphragm, badly distorted. This was at 2200 fps from a 358 Winchester hand-load. That 57" racked bull dropped right in front of a fast, deep chute of white water on the Kandik River, the head and one antler fell in the deep, fast water. The fast chute of water blasted into a nasty, splintered mess of a wood-pile, filled into a cut bank. Had the moose not dropped, recovery would've been risky.

If you go back to the medium bore, rather than be choosey about your typical lung shot with the smaller 20 calibers, break clear through the front quarter bones with the bigger, heavier bullets, resulting in no blood-shot meat. I'd imagine that you'd be setting at 2400-2500 fps with the 275 grainer. Should be a clean deal. Any medium bore cartridge firing bullets at 2200-2500 fps, it's a perfect combination of range, killing power, penetration and lack of blood-shot meat.

A good 30 caliber with a 220 grain breaks out bone well too, if you go to 9:24 of this video, an old customer of mine who bought one of my boats, appears to have broken out the front end of a very large bull. You can tell the bull wanted to move forward, but simply couldn't get his front end to work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz1vwTPYa2M&list=PL_fotv96Eswd88PSfDBssW551-CqtqNQ0

a 30-06 or 308 with a 220 grain partition will very cleanly break the entire front end out of a large bear or moose. I dunno, but Nosler sure did a good job designing that 30 caliber gem.

Sorry, but bigger, slower bullets have shown far more bloodshot meat than any other combo. Broken bones make the mess a lot worse.

Give me a light for caliber mono pushed fast through the high shoulder...

I have been loading the 210 TTSX for a couple 338s for many years (including prior iterations) and it has performed beautifully.

If that’s true, post some pics of these so-called awesome bullets.

Actually can post a few he has recovered... most are shy...

😳

meh.... .512 450gr at 1300fps from my 500 Linebaugh pistol. I could eat right up to the hole on this bull. Could have eaten the hole too except it was full of hair. Same results on Sitka Blacktail with 355gr .452 at 1200fps from my 45 Colt. The deer shot wilh 338, 7mm, 375 were bloodshot all to hades. My 3 bucks had nice clean holes you eat right up to. With 15 skinned deer hanging side by side it was obvious which ones were hit with high velocity projectiles and which were hit with slow and heavy hunks of lead.

A big, heavy slow boolit punches a nice clean hole. It's possible your mono-solids aren't mushrooming so your just punching a caliber sized hole. Broken bones are a good thing.

Disabusing you of your fantasies is not my issue.

Sorry to have bothered you your excellency, my mistake. I see you have over 36000 posts here so I will defer to your online armchair expertise.

The 338-06 with 225gr would be perfect almost the 338 Win Mag.

Why is your experience so different from everyone else? I never made arguments to authority based on post count and never would. I would question a lot of what you have posted both here and elsewhere. You have said more than a little in the realm of the ridiculous.

Comparing the results from a light-for-caliber mono to an ordinary cup and core there is no comparison in the bloodshot meat category. It is possible your big, slow bullets could compete against ordinary cup and cores (or bonded) but beyond that you are going where few others go.

Good mornin everyone,

I'm currently remote, and not near any pictures, but I did post three reviews of the woodlieigh .358" 275 grain and the 9.3 mm 300 grain swift A-frame on mid way USA. Pictures of three bulls, and one recovered bullet. Figured since I bought them from midway, I'd give some good reviews.

I see 5 to 7 big bulls killed every year. To date the fastest kill was with a 7mm08. Shot placement as always means more than caliber. Moose are not a tough animal to begin with. Big slow bullets like the hardcasts I use in my 444 do far less meat damage on average than higher velocity rounds. Of course shot placement plays a role in that too. Had a guy shoot a big bull this year right behind the shoulder with a 340 Weatherby loaded with a Barnes TSX bullet at 30 yards. Ruined one entire side of ribs.

Mainer I worked up some loads for my 358 based on your posts over on the Alaska Outdoor Forums and they are thumpers! Took a big bison with them a few years back and couldnt ask for better bullet performance.

Geeze I bet Yukon, if I had that much powder capacity, i'd try to slow that bugger down, with a heavier bullet.

Can you elaborate on that 358 load and where you shot the Bison? In the little 358, the 200 grain Acubond and the 200 grain ttsx, are longer than a 250 grain flat base bullet. At the power level and range of the little 358, I never could figure out what the boat tail, or the ballistic tip actually accomplishes? Better to just go flat base spitzer in my opinion, instead of limiting an already limited powder column.

The reason why I switched from the woodlieghs to the A-frames: The woodleigh PP has very little lead exposed at the tip. In one instance, I had a failure to expand on a large bull moose. It still worked, but it really should have expanded. The tip of a woodleigh is darn close to being an FMJ. The nosler partitions and the swifts have more exposed lead at the tip, and expansion has always been super reliable. Then.........after a 500 yd shot with a 300 grain swift a-frame, I was honestly shocked that it expanded so perfectly. That pure copper jacket and all the lead exposed at the tip.......smart.

I've found pure copper jackets to be less brittle than copper/zinc mixed jackets. Less mushroom shears off. They seem to reliably expand on moose down to 1500 fps!

negatives: If you have factory rifling, or rebores, all the little tooling marks foul with copper. The fouling can get so severe, I've resorted to a mild abrasive: KG bore polish.

Mainer, I was following your posts on the 358 right from the beginning over on the AOF. Early on a lot of guys were of the opinion that the 225 grain bullets were about as heavy as the little 358 could push reliably. You were going heavy for caliber, and if my memory is correct worked your way up to 300 grain bullets. I stopped at 250 grain NP. I would have gone heavier but the 250 NP was almost flawless on large game. The bison here are pretty spooky and quite tough to hunt. Our season runs in the winter months so a guy can do a lot of snowshoeing. Anyway I got up on a small herd that were feeding in a big slough, but they got my wind before I was where I wanted to be and busted out for the hills. Luckily I found an opening an shot a big bull that was bringing up the rear. I wanted to anchor him so held right in the middle of his shoulder. The bullet broke both shoulders and I found it perfectly mushroomed under the hide on the off side. The distance was about 90 meters and that bullet lifted that bull right off his feet. Anyone who has ever butchered a big bull bison will know that they are the biggest heaviest boned animals in NA.

On another note I also read your posts over there where you were talking about the (then new) Ruger Compact Magnum in 338 RCM. At that point I had never heard of the round before but did some digging. I liked your idea of a short light handy rifle, with good open sights that a guy could take sheep hunting, then pull the scope off and have a good bear defence gun. Took me awhile to find one here in Canada but I did find a left hand model. Im not sure if you ever got one or not, but I can say that your assessment of that rifle was spot on! I've had it for about a year now and it has quickly become my all time favourite rifle. So far its taken a huge bull bison, a caribou, and a wolf. Im shooting 225 grain core locks at about 2700 FPS and performance is outstanding. In reality the only thing it offers over the 358 is a bit flatter trajectory but for the north country I cant imagine a more suitable rifle. From what I understand Ruger dropped that rifle and for the life of me I dont understand why it wasn't more popular.

Wowsa, great story on the mighty little underdog: the 358 Winchester. I would have to say, that's the best story I've ever heard, involving the 358 Winchester. Yah, when heavy winter clothes are involved, or elevation, by gully is the little 358 handy, with plenty of range. After you broke out the shoulders and anchored North America's largest animal, did you scratch your head and wonder if the little 358 was magic or something?

Some time ago Yukon, I believe an article was written in a gun rag, full of that thar "theoretical thinking out loud". The author opined that he liked 225 grainers in the 358, because the larger caliber bullets take up too much powder capacity in the 358. Nothing could be further from the truth: All 250 grain flat base spritzers set right at the little shoulder when load to standard COAL.


Elmer Keith mentioned the little 358 Winchester in one of his last books: Hell, I was There. He claimed the little 358 with a 250 grainer was plenty sufficient on the largest of North American game. Not much has changed, aye? Everybody got ah pet cartridge, and I suppose over the years the 358 has accomplished some of my greatest memories on the rivers.

Yah that little 338 federal carbine, what ah handy canoe gun. I never did pick up one, but an old hunting pard has one as his sole hunting rifle. I watched him catch both a caribou and moose with it. Luckily, let me target practice with it too. What ah handy little gem, with no gunsmithing or modifications required. Those integral scope bases and fine open sights are darn smart. Was probably the best-buy hunting rifle/caliber I've seen for years.

You wrote... "Sorry, but bigger, slower bullets have shown far more bloodshot meat than any other combo..."

That is too broad of a statement and is not true. 200gr .323 Accubond at 2950fps mv from my Kimber 325 destroys much more meat on sheep and moose than a .452 355gr hardcast wfn at 1200fps mv from my SBH 45 Colt on deer and .512 455gr hardcast lfn at 1300fps mv from my 500 Linebaugh. Plenty have gone before us with big, slow heavy hunks of lead and "eat up to the hole" is a common phrase among handgun hunters.

You can argue against physics all you want but you won't win. Expanding bullets and velocity creates bloodshot. Not slow, heavy solids.

Using an Accubomb against the Monos as stated is not any way part of the argument. As I said, go with your fantasy...

Slow day at AOD.

Most likely...

But how could you tell?

Lucky guess?

Yes your HIGHness...

ah.... isn't that schweet....

Nope not comparing Accubonds to Monos. Just pointing out your flawed statement regarding heavy and slow and what I've seen first hand. But, obvioulsy you prefer mudslinging as opposed to admitting your statement is flawed. Carry on oh wise one...

accubomb? You must be thinking of the Long Range Accubonds. These AB's worked pretty good as they were designed to.

Probably.... I wouldn't know..

338-06/210 ttsx has so far done what I've wanted it to on moose. LOL. I was a bit impressed that it took on the front shoulder at the neck, spine, and offside blade but was stuck under the hide, I'd actually almost bet it would have made it out. As is its an awful pretty bullet at about 100% retention.

As to keeping em out of the water, like I say on deer, pigs etc... if you can't afford for them to move, the only option is enough umph to take out CNS at your choice of location. Beyond that its always going to be a crap shoot to me. Maybe a high percentage one at times, but crap shoot regardless.

I'll leave with this. One of the longer trails I"ve ever followed on a white tail deer, maybe a 100 pound dressed weight doe at that, was from her having a 50 bmg through her ribcage and both lungs.. VERY dead when we finally found her about 200 yards away, though the bullets path was easier to follow than her path....literally, in thick brush.

Heya Snyd, Iron Bender and Sitka Deer:

Not much work trying to find a decent conversation bout outdoorsy stuff on either forum I suppose. There's good ones and not so good ones. Not sure about exclusivity between the two, we still lotta the same folks. I'd have no problem hunting moose with a big flat nosed hard cast from one ah snyd's nice revolvers or that accubond wsm load, or one ah Sitka Deer's 338 mag x bullet loads.

True stories of moose growing up in Northern Maine:

When I was 15 yrs old, there were moose all around my home, and cross the road near a water hole. I used to practice my stalking skills on a big bull moose with a base ball. I'd stalk him when his head was under water eating aquatic vegetation. I'd pause when his head rose to breath and chew.

Finally, I'd get at the waters edge, and pulverize him right on the front quarter with the base ball. The 30" racked bull exploded out of that pond, almost trampled me as he ran outta there. Another time, I bought this outrageously stupid deer call that did doe or buck grunts from wallmart in Houlten Maine. Thought it was a sure ticket to call in a big white tail. I set hidden under a nice thick white spruce in a small field, and got to grunting in early November. Brush started thrashing, twigs started snapping, and I reached to ready my 30-30, ready to be the youngster who drug home a trophy whittail buck. Out of the brush popped a big bull moose with 40" antlers, ready to fight. I threw that stupid thing away.

Another time, I was crawlin around the yard on my hands and knees at night, catching night crawlers for fishing. I felt a strong breeze by my face and heard some galloping, something nicked my ear. I took the celophane off the flashlight, and shined it out front, I walked right under a cow moose, and she didn't trample me!

Aren’t you a mod there?

You speak of bullet comparisons in regard to meat damage and use two bullet types... neither one is in the same league with monos. Period.

We already have history and you proved to be an idiot then. Obviously, some things never change. Your exterior ballistics comprehension was virtually zero then. No sign of improvement.

I have seen quite a few bull moose and Kodiak bears shot with the 210 TTSX in the 338WM. It works well.

Pretty darn hard to find something that WON'T work well to kill a moose in my experience.

That did it Lanche, ya done insulted our bullet proof moose! Next your going to say they have no brains at all during the rut.

Ha! Good talk! Sorry I missed it, not really.....

All I can say is what I've seen and the 3 moose I've shot with the 210 TSX have been DRT quivering on the ground. You guys have a different experience and that's fine, me, I'll stick to what works for me!

Good luck on the lottery draws boys!!!