Lots of threads on here about the Last Alaskans. Watching this am and heard Heimo say something that surprised me. They were hunting moose and he said they has 10 days to get a moose before season closed???

Thought they would fall under subsistence hunting and could take a moose whenever???

Subsistence also has a season. Some caribou seasons extend through winter into spring but not so much for moose.

maybe on the show they gotta do the law thing but the truth really is if these great people need a moose they get one to eat anyway they have too. no game warden would ever bother these hardy people if they need meat to survive out in that wilderness area. there`s a old rule for country people born and raised in the country >you people live by city people game laws we live by country common sense laws , we need meat we get it if something bothers us we shoot it and get rid of it,seasons and dates may not mean much if your hungry.

There may be a deer season but the deer are eating my alfalfa and I'm eating them.

yep ,keep that iron skillet handy ! i can almost taste that fresh meat and onions cook`n in bacon grease !

Any Alaskans care to opine?

There are general season and there are also additional federal subsistence seasons for rural residents. Either way, there are still seasons, it’s not a free for all even in the bush.

That's my take on this as well,,we abide by the seasons (quite generous) and those that don't feel the wrath!

We pay knowledgeable people good money to watch the wildlife and fish to determine seasons and limits.
If the system is not working then it needs fixed, otherwise we need to follow these guidelines.
If our chosen lifestyle does or allow us to follow these guidelines then it may be time to re-evaluate that lifestyle.
Any fish or game over-harvested makes for tougher future use.
Not getting into specifics some areas appear to have large bear and wolf populations and very few legal moose.
It appears that if more bear and wolf were harvested it will be easier to fill a skillet.
That being said if you live in the Bush and took the time to harvest a full limit of bear and wolf, your quality of moose hunting may increase to the point that a 10 day season would not even raise a discussion.

No way, Pete says you do whatever you feel like and the brown shirts don't care.....some of the things you read around h ere. LOL

believe what you want but these people don`t look like they are starving and i am glad for these hardy people.

Lol... From the horses mouth.

Of course they aren't starving.

Don’t believe everything you see on tv. Some of the “Bush” people from these shows spend half the year in town and some live in villages which are hardly the bush. There are a few who are genuine but most are not full time bush residents. I’ve said enough. It’s not my place to throw folks under the bus.

Not much "real" on "reality" TV.

Wardens in the Bush are just a bit more common than white moose, but not by much. Scarse resources go where there is the most need (human population centers) , not necessarily where the most per-capita sub-legal activity occurs..

And then we have "proxy hunting" that skews the numbers.

Agree, plus they are always living on the ragged edge of the Parks Service's good graces and probably don't want to rock the boat.

I've known Heimo for decades and he and his family are the real deal. So is Marty Meierotto, Mike Horstman and a few of the other "reality stars" and all of them have honest ethics.
I am also friends with a number of dedicated state wildlife troopers and know that in today's world many cases of illegality are obtained from social media and TV shows.

Happy birthday Phil!

I do not live in Alaska anymore though I did for several years and guided brown bear hunters for several of theose years. For the most part everyone knew and abided by the game laws. They did so while bitching about 1st Nation doing as they damn well pleased...i.e. spring egg collecting, shooting from a powered boat, etc. Now "if" you could find a truly self suffiecent old school whom does not live part time in town, uses a dog sled , NO modern equipment then fine live off the land BUT if you have a 60hp motor on your boat and you run out of town so you can shoot swimming caribou then run back to your house in town living off Gov't heat/fuel subs you should be forced to obey game laws. While most have a duck season the gov't gives 1st Nations case of steel shot to hunt waterfowl 365 days a year...THAT IS USING THE SYSTEM. What about the 1st Nations druggies who use ARs to shoot walrus off ice floes then sell the ivory/ Just try to get an walrus permit. I could go on but you get the point. It can not be denied it happens in every village/town in the state.

I just watched this show for the first time last night. I'm curious as to which system in the refuge the guy with the dog team caught 500 salmon. They looked like chum. Sheenjek, Coleen?

Yukon

PERZACTLY !

I'll second Phil, as to the ethics thing. Abiding by regulations and seasons in the Bush is largely a matter of personal ethics, rather than enforcement efforts/fear, which I was attempting to say, and why this is the case. My previous post was incomplete, and/or poorly stated.

Opportunity.

Phil, oi agree with your thoughts in the people in The Last. Most reality shows are very scripted and hokey. This one is a bit, but I find them genuine and it’s an enjoyable show.

Thank you, I have only watched this show for a couple of episodes the other night. Taking things at face value I am trying to figure out the logistics on a few things. Re: the guy with the sled dogs. He is in Anwr and quite aways from the Yukon. Assuming the salmon are late run Yukon chum means they were in the middle river sometime mid/late Sept. The fish in his box were frozen whole which indicates to me they were frozen somewhere close to the catch site and in Sept. I'm thinking they were frozen in a freezer. 500 fish at say 8 lbs is 4000 lbs. He must have had them flown in there. After freeze up. Couple or three loads in that helio that flew them out. I did not catch where "town" was but I'm guessing Fbxs or Ft Yukon. He looks like a hell of a trapper based on the fur hanging on his cabin. I realize these folks are in regular contact with town and are regularly supplied by air during the winter. That said I enjoy the scenery as I really love the high Arctic and sub Arctic.

The Guy and Gal, and the Baby Girl, with the Dogs, those are the "Seldens", they have a House in Fairbanks,,,,, and it's her -[Ashley's]- Fathers original Cabin/Trap Line Area, on the Sheenjek River, Heimo and Edna Korth are on the Upper Coleen River, old Bob Harte that passed away, was also on the Coleen River about 50 miles down river from the Korths.
And it was not un-common, back in those early days, for the Trapper to come into town with his "Furs" his catch for the year, sell those Furs, and maybe stay with some friends for awhile, re-stock-up with supplies and ammo, maybe some new traps and or snares,,,, maybe a New Dog or two for the team,,,,and visit some "Ladies" of the Evening,,,, etc... etc....
He may take several weeks or a month or two, doing all this and then head back out again,,,, but as time marched forward, and he acquired a Ham-Radio, and the use of Bush Planes came into prominence, he could order up his supplies, and have them brought out by Plane,,,,,, or call the Plane to come and get him and his "Catch" for the year,,,,,,, so what I'm trying to convey here,,,,,,, is that VERY FEW, lived out in the Bush, 24/7 365, with out any Human contact that total time.
LJ

Just to be clear. As I said in my previous post, there are some folks in these shows who are indeed genuine and “the real deal”. Heimo and Edna are a classic example of that. Also, the last Alaskans, as far as the Alaska reality television shows go, is about the best from what little I’ve been exposed to. I’ve had a little experience on the logistical side of that show as well as a couple others and was gifted the first six episodes by the producer prior to their release. I didn’t mean to come off sounding nasty about these folks, I’ve just watched enough from a certain level of remove, and dealt with the slick, pushy, LA liberals who put these together, to know it’s largely a “Product” not a non fiction documentary. All I’m saying is, at the end of the day, it’s a television show.

People are correct, the scenery is incredible, and possibly a good enough reason in and of itself to tune in.

Life in the bush, if done well, is usually quite routine and relatively uneventful, which doesn’t sell like conflict, crisis and drama.

I left AK in '82 even then real old time "sourdough" we're a thing of the past. Fact is the Alaskan so many romance about went the way of the old west gun slingers here in the lower 48 by the late '40s. This is not to say that in some parts of AK there do not remain some tough ass loner types even today but even these hermit types have some of today's modern conveniences.
When my grandfather opened up his place 80 miles up river of Fairbanks the place was then truly wild...he killed moose and bear every year in his garden his common law wife canned the meat over a kerosene stove that was modern for the time. He rode a horse to Fairbanks and back 3 times a year. And often talked about the old Russians who he considered the "Last True Alaskans"

Phil, thanks for the response. I am not a fan of reality tv. I do find myself enjoying Heimo and Edna. They strike me as very genuine people. Rare to find people that can be happy in their situation, regardless of what that situation is, whether it be living in the bush and running a trap line or a multi-million dollar executive. Heimo's laugh and smile and the way he and Edna respond to one another is great.

Read the book his cousin (?) wrote about him. Knowing what those 2 have been through makes their relationship all the more impressive.

Can't think of anyone on tv or in the public eye that I would want to meet. But getting to meet these two I think would be a real treat.

Didn't want to start a reality tv thread.

Just wanting to figure out how seasons go in AK as a guy who has ZERO experience in AK and knows next to nothing about your seasons.

His cousin's book, James Campbell, is very good. I think he wrote 2 about Heimo and Edna and the latest was called Brave It about James Campbell and his teenage daughter making a float-paddle, and hiking trip to the north Alaska Coast.

the Last Alaskan show i still look forward to the next show when this show is on. as has been said most TV stars i could care less to meet any of them,but Heimo ,Edna,Krin some others would be wonderful to meet maybe even fish with . but my favorite of them all is Ray Lewis or Caribou from the other show, fun to have a few beers with them maybe hunt with Ray or Caribou. but it is a great show The Last Alaskan ! as is below zero,mountain men.

Ray Lewis and his family were good ..

.

Its sounds like your confusing Canada with Alaska, 1bigdude


Subsistence hunting/egg gathering/fishing/trapping is for every Alaskan resident, and locals on Fed lands. The only exception is resident Native Alaskans that reside on the coast can hunt Sea Mammals, and that makes more than 90% of them in our state that cannot.

If you need the meat for eating, to be legal after the kill, as soon as you can, you contact the FnG Trooper and explain yourself, turn over the remains/hide/head and you will not face legal charges. The hide/head will be auctioned by the state and the meat will be given to those who will eat it.
Hide it and get found out, and you will face the consequences no matter the story you got.

Same go's for wrong sex/small antlers, etc.............people make mistakes


Were all 9 meals from chaos, right?
Staying within the law, how you decide to make your meat is your business, with a paddle or a jet boat, you cannot buy wild game in any stores no matter how much $$ your throwing down. What better reason to own an outboard 60hrs that to use it for hunting and fishing??

Moving here and there in season has always been practical.....where to freeze up? where to Break Up? Where to fish? where to hunt? where to hunker down and think about old age? Most of these are not found in one place...........

Perhaps some want to see a return to primitive rather than the true modern hunt? Hunters have always taken to tools and transportation to make life easier, its the human condition, is it not?
Nature has its own laws, and seasons.

Living in a village is living in the bush, and as convenience as you can make it, or can afford to make it........same as in a camp or tent.......... Where you go is where you are.

.

I’ll have to disagree with “living in a village is living in the bush”. They are not remotely the same thing.

Perspective comes into this ; People who live in Bush villages referr to those who live in camps as "living in camp" so maybe its our views or way we talk of such things..maybe 'Bush' is living far from others?

I live in a tent for more than 1/2 the year and the guy in the next valley over does too, I trade internet time on his dish for Caribou skins.
He's pretty "Bush" allright but dosent hunt or trap or even fish much, he makes art for $$ like my wife.............and yet I also live off and on in a village thats on some of the most excellent hunting and fishing areas in Alaska and people catch those resources to blend with whatever works to make their livings....seems pretty "bush" to me anyways.


Times and people change, everyone try's to make life a better thing and change comes with that........throw in a few kids and a wife and see if you dont work harder to make things "Better" and ,over time, see if things in your tent/house/cabin, dont look a lot more 'modern'.

..................and in 50 years even you guys will be referred to as ''tough old timer Alaskans..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPbqYoz9HA

Okay, without writing a book, I think we’re looking at this from different perspectives. Im looking at this from a life and preparedness standpoint. Folks like myself who live out in the country, or in “camp”, don’t have the same life as folks in the villages. We share some of the same activities (hunting, fishing, berry picking) but aside from that village life is pretty much like town life only a little less convenient. During the summer and winter months I can utilize some of the resources of the nearest village, but it’s not as though it’s cheap for me to get there. Depending on fuel prices it cost between $50 and $100 to go get mail assuming weather conditions allow for safe travel. The other 3 to 3 1/2 months of the year during freeze up and breakup I’m completely isolated with the nearest villages on the same side of the river as me being 67 miles downriver and 105 miles upriver with no overland trail so they might as well be on the moon. Villages have stores, state maintained runways, regular air service, a post office, power plant, usually a washateria of some sort, a clinic, medivac, a fuel depot, and people. People to help if you’re having a medical issue, people to help if you can’t move that big heavy thing by yourself, heck, just someone to hold the wrench on the outside of the transom so you can tighten the bolts when mounting an outboard and can’t reach around the splashwell, ect.... Any of those things that I want immediate access to, I have to provide for and fund myself. So, you’ll have to forgive me when I disagree that village life and “bush or camp” life is the same in anyway. Personally, I see a big difference when I pull up to the PO or village store and park my overflow encrusted snogo and sled beside a bunch of pickup trucks with engines running and heaters blasting that get around on the nicely plowed roads. Just my .02.

Thats pretty clear, ykrvak, Thanks.

I guess I just flow between the two so much its blurry where it ends and where it begins, for me.

Cheers!!

I guess my big bitch are with those whom cry they have a right to " traditional ways" when it comes to hunting and fishing. But when the Gov't gives them the OK to do so turn right around and hunt seals, swimming 'bou, etc out of boats powered with gas motors rather than paddle. If you are using outboard and snowmobiles you are not doing it "traditional ways" and should be forced to follow the modern game regs.

I think the above mentioned hunting is restricted to the native people of Alaska and rightfully so. I believe the game has been rerouted from traditional routes due to the expansion of occupied area in general by the invasion of the white man. I think the natives have to travel much further to satisfy their needs and without modern access it would be virtually impossible to satisfy these needs. remember one thing we have a nasty habit history of taken what's not ours. To quote an American Indian chief [The wild west wasn't the wild west until the white man arrived] Just a thought from an old man that lived amongst them.

Wonder what then causes migration route changes out in the bush??? I think we blame ourselves for too much impact often.

As to resources, lets just say subsistence isn't sport hunting. Its for food. And while I've said before I had issues with how it was done, then it dawned on my what the uses are and the time involved and heck yes, if legal, use what you have, you aren't hunting, you are at the store shopping for food. To say it the same way here if subsistence/native hunters should paddle a skin canoe to the "store" then probably all of us that eat food from a grocery store should walk or ride a horse etc....

The fact is that things will always be changing and all you can do is get along the best you can, watching out first for you, then for family, then for others. Fairly simple in many ways.

They were nomads back in traditional days, let them be that again if they want to use tradition as an excuse to circumvent game laws.

Hey Sam, hope that you are doing well. Shoot me an email if you can.

rost495
your' first paragraph makes sense and well taken. but then again the bush would still be there if not exploited by a few whose intention were less than honorable. we have little left on this spaceship called earth Alaska was the referred to as the last frontier and a lot of its' resources and tradition have been lost in the name of progress. I fear as time goes by the next last frontier will be the south pole and exploited in the name of progress. just a thought.

Then quit crying about 'Traditional ways" that others may observe, unless they are breaking a law.

All residents of Alaska have to follow the same FnG laws, no matter their skin color or heritage.
The only exceptions at all are that Native Alaskans that reside on the coast can still hunt Marine Mammals for food, skins and such.
When commercial hunting of Marine Mammals was stopped, those who had a tradition of eating and utilizing those animals and products were allowed to carry on as before and those who only had commercial venues were stopped. That was like 1971 or so.

It seems to me that you dont know what 'traditions' other people have, how they came about, as well you seem , to me, to confuse "Tradition" with "Primitive".

People can start and stop "traditions", like Christmas, for example. We know when and where that started and why and how its evolved. Would it be wrong to sing a Xmas carol or , just because Moses's book came out before Christs, that the new Testament is null and void, and not "traditional"?

The Inupiaq I live amongst are progressive people who adopt what makes life easier. Adapt and progress, survive and determine their own way.


Change and adaptation can be found in transportation, and weapons, clothing and even religion. They let go of the old and move onto the new and retain their identity, and evolve and survive as human beings do.

Firearms here in the Arctic are 200 years in regular use, outboard motors 100 years in use, all bought and payed for by those who could afford them, sold by those who made them and brought them here for sale.
Started 200 years ago and keeps happening, but insted of ships , they fly in a jet to a store rather than a trading post, ect.
Just because someone of one skin color invented something gives them no right or say in who decides to adapt/buy/use what they have, despite their nationality or race.



$$ money or skins, people buy what they can use, all the world round..

The animals havent changed, the lands havent changed, the need to eat hasnt changed nor the mindset of those who are actually doing the work.

The place I sit and await Caribou to cross the river still has a 5 Caribou a day limit, as well, only so many Caribou can fit in a boat, so it limits itself.
My wifes family has been hunting that area for at least 150 years that they know of , and probably more.
They used to use a kayak and lance to catch swimmers and snares in depth to catch those who crossed. Kills of 20+ a day for as many days as Caribou were passing through, were common, but when that all your clothing, you food through the freeze up and feed for your dogs, trade in skins or bedding and boots, it may have not been enough some years.

Dog teams and such are much reduced as is the need for clothing/bedding skins and the amount of hunting being done is much reduced from just 50 years back. Time and 'traditions' change, but the need to eat is there.

People who stay within the law should be able to do their hunting any way they want.

Not to bring religion into this, but last year I was in Jerusalem at the Wailing Wall and was approached by a rabbi. Turns out he knew my rabbi and he asked if I wanted to do a traditional Jewish religious act (called wrapping Tefilin) at the wall, which is considered to be one of the most traditionally pious acts possible. I said yes, so the rabbi gets on his cell phone, calls my rabbi, and over the speaker my rabbi in California recites the prayer with me.

Traditional? Nope. But it certainly was a modern adaptation of a traditional act and probably as true to the essence of what was meant as could be.

I see what Chip and his family do in a similar light.

As far as tradition and such go, the negotiations for ANILCA and ANCSA happened in the '60s and '70s...

Well Caribou under your logic I guess I should be able to hunt with full auto rifles because my kin folk used flintlock. And because they sold deer for the market, a.k.a. market hunters, I too can do it and fill my dump truck...hell a dump truck only holds so many deer, right ?
The people I live among accept that laws should be the same for everyone regardless of race, spirituality or ethnic background

I think we are at the point to agree to disagree IMHO.

Folks around here hunted with flintlocks and progressed to the legal semi auto's in a couple of century's in parallel with other folks further south and beyond.
Commercial hunting is alive and well today with an entire industry devoted to guiding. Instead of being a Hunter, people make $$ catering to Hunters by showing them the way, camping with them, flying them, lodging them, etc.,.it has evolved from selling carcasses to selling a chance at killing something, and as a subsistence Hunter rather than trophy Hunter , I bring my wife to do "Guide" duty's.

If full auto was legal and practical to hunt with, though for which I cannot think of any examples, then fine.

If the game population is high and sustainable, then fill your truck, like a fisherman fills a trawler.

If you filled your pickup with Deer, would you give it all away after butchering?

Perhaps give what you can and keep what you must?

Food is a large part of a culture, (Where would the Italians be with out Spaghetti?)and Caribou, etc are cultural foods here, and cannot be bought in a store. Most every hunter I know hunts for multiple family's and young, old and infirm. Sharing and giving get high respect here amongst the small villages where everyone knows each other and familys are extended and deep, people are expected to share.
Some hunters are better than others some people only fish, some work labor jobs and pay the bills, yet , at the end of the day they eat, sleep and wake up warm to do it again. What may seem excessive to some is because they dont understand the redistribution system thats in fine working order all over Alaska.

The people I live among accept that laws should be the same for everyone regardless of race, spirituality or ethnic background, as everyone has to have a Alaskan State Hunting/fishing/trapping, etc license and follow the same laws, bag limits, seasons as everyone else. Game Unit to Game unit, locals seem to know best and adjust accordingly

You'd think that the folks descended from the folks who took the land would be too big to whine about inequality in game regulations. We've changed, smaller now and taken to sniveling.

I can see now the logic you use. The same logic a convicted felon uses if his conviction is expunged.... "I am not a convicted felon it was expunged"...well the felon seems to forget you must be convicted to be expunged.
Oh yes it was the Chinese whom started spaghetti not the Italians and folks around here were hunting with atlas, spears and rocks long before gun powder was developed.
I have no issue with you personally we've never met nor will we likely ever meet, my issues are with those whom use culture as a means of (read that excuse) being able to walk both sides of the aisle using a liberal state's ruling body to their advantage. Remember I was an Alaskan myself for 50 years.

I must go plow snow now so the neighbors can ski out onto the lake and spear trout thru the ice.

sounds like I wouldn't plow then..... if principles matter.

Ya know Chip, we give away some of what we take here too, its just common sense for those that can't get out and need or want some meat. If we are lucky to take what we want thats even better. But I generally give away to others first, and then look towards our needs. That could get one dead in the north, but not here.

Regardless living as you would want to be treated is never a bad thing IMHO. Respect. Communication. Sharing. Love. Not a thing wrong with those. Might have even read some about that in a book a few times.

I'm assuming this contains your argument, more or less. It appears you take "traditional ways" to mean traditional methods.
Traditional ways could also mean hunting as a lifestyle. The methods used would be whatever is effective and available. Why should their culture be frozen in a past time? Ours is not.
But that does leave the different laws for different people fire still burning. Legislation is such a messy business.

I presently have a kid going to school in Fairbanks. He is a village kid from Noatak. He was captain of their basketball team and is forced to go to school in Fairbanks in foster care. He has hunted and fished since he could walk. During one fall, he shot a truculent grizzly that was trying to get their caribou meat at his grandfather's camp. It was filled with parasites and worms and the young man didn't record the DLP or salvage the meat. A Brown shirt happened by and cited the young man and it was decided by the court to give him 6 months of time in the Juvenile detention center. He got into several fights at the center and has actually been in FCC for those interactions. He wants very badly to go back to Noatak where he is happy and he can hunt and fish and actually play basketball because the result of all the legal carnage was that his inconsistent academic attendance caused him to be ineligible and his foster parents couldn't get him to BB practice.

Traditional subsistence users are subject to laws. And it hasn't always been the best for them. This kid doesn't use a cell phone and wants to get back up to the Noatak river where he can make meaning of everything. He did what he felt was natural but the system wanted to teach him a lesson. Should he have shot the grizzly? Yes. Did he understand that he had to process the bear? No. Is it a learning experience for him to be associated with the riffraff of society while he learns his lesson. I don't think so.

People might get all butthurt that Alaska Natives living in the village have different hunting opportunities that people who don't live in the village. But the truth is that sometimes the system isnt quite fair and many of those kids from the vill have a distinct disadvantage with dealing with the rules that have been placed upon them. I say let them co-manage areas like that and have tribal court systems. Don't cause a super good kid to be confronted with the worst part of our society because he doesn't know how a DLP works.

One of the roughest things in Alaska is that if you do something that you shouldn't do like shoot a sublegal dall sheep and you report yourself that the system will throw the book at you and make you pay while somebody who poaches and gets caught will pay less. That crap has to change.

At the risk of breaking a 24hcf rule, I wanted to post a little more on topic.

Seeing a different episode, looks like these guys have different seasons. So they aren't limited to just that 10 day season (or whatever it was) in the fall.

How many different seasons are available to a family to hunt caribou or moose or bear for food in the bush?

[quote=kaboku68One of the roughest things in Alaska is that if you do something that you shouldn't do like shoot a sublegal dall sheep and you report yourself that the system will throw the book at you and make you pay while somebody who poaches and gets caught will pay less. That crap has to change.[/quote]

I totally agree with you on this. When I got to Elmendorf in 2011, at my in briefing for the base, one of the guys from base wildlife told us "It's easier to get away with murder in Alaska, than it is to commit a game and fish violation". Truer words never spoken in my opinion.

Also, I know a guy in Palmer that thought he was shooting a fork horn moose several years go, only to find out it had another tine and one that was broken off on the other antler, thus a sub-legal bull. He called ADFG to report what he did, and started harvesting the moose and bringing it out of the woods as he was instructed to do. After 2 or three trips back and forth, the brown shirt showed up. He wrote him up for several violations one being wanton waste of game meat. Said individual lawyered up and fought the charges and won in court. Granted he still had to pay his lawyer and court fees, but he was cleared of it. That is a prime example of why people that maybe make an honest mistake don't report it. I have given up calling in fishing violations, as I have always been told there are no troopers available to investigate to respond.

We would travel to the Kenai to fish every seasons for several years mostly for silvers and trout rarely did we keep a fish as we were tossing bunny flys and glow eggs just the occasional kill for the BBQ grill at camp. At the time most days were a 3 salmon kill per day I reported several times guys from the same campgrounds with a dozen or more silvers a day in their coolers NEVER ONCE DID ANYONE CHECK IT OUT and the same guys were there every year. I bow killed a 'bou on a special permit on the airport grounds in Soldotna only to have no less than 6 visits from the bunny cops. The adage "it's not who you know but who you blow" comes to mind.

When was that?

Gosh I got to say around late 1990s early 2000s

Edited to add: There were some monster bulls living there then and I killed a beauty near the radio tower. Saw one of the largest bull moose I ever saw there too standing on the sand road. It was only the second moose I ever saw there the other a cookie bull.

...a forkie bull...Damn sp ck

One of the biggest ever killed was poached there but everyone in the world had pictures of it.

When the poacher took it in to be mounted the taxidermists recognized the bull from fliers ADF&G sent to all taxidermists. He was busted big time.

The lowlands herd is stable, but small, and does not have draw permits.

I've not heard of caribou at the Slowdotna airport. Interesting.

Yes there were not many if memory serves me correct the lottery was for 4 caribou bulls to residents only. I applied 3 years before I got picked and was very lucky. My brother applied every year an never got drawn.

Took a bit of google-fu, but found that herd has been closed since 1993. 1992 had a three bull permits. I didn't move down here until '98 and wasn't familiar.

Any pictures of that 'bou?

Good God has it been that long? Hell I am 82 memory must be slipping like the pecker! I got pictures but they are film an must be scanned in.
Are you certain of those dates? I am not questioning you but I am almost certain it was later than '92 more like '96ish or later I went to Tanzania for buffalo in 2004 &2005 and it was well before that.

There is no logic nor sense in that statement. If there were expungement, it would be to erase the conviction......

The court that convicted me, also freed me.There is no Expungement in Aaska, your either a felon or your not.


Thats a much different method, albeit a much shorter process than I had with going through years of court...although with 6 consecutive Troopers sorta sounds like bragging or something...., and to each his own in this day and age...



I have my doubts about your 50 years........but who knows......

With all the bigotry, lies, misinformation, BullShit, that you have been posting and repeatedly insinuating that some sort of people have 'Special rights' or set of laws.
The only thing I can think of thats anywhere remotely associated, is Native Alaskans, who actually live on or near the coast, can hunt Sea mammals.
Theres nothing special about that, anyone and everyone could until 1972, when Sea Mammal numbers were very very low. Commercial hunting was stopped world wide.
Russian, Alaska, Canada,Fereo Islands, Iceland,Norway and Greenland restricted hunting to those who needed food and used the products of those hunts to do as they had the day before....if they had a cultural and food association with the Mammals they hunted.
In Alaska, that was 99% Natives.......

An example would be fishing;
Lots of fish and everybody with a rod to a trawler can fish(commercial), when numbers are low, only those who will eat their catch (subsistence) and lower numbers have no one fishing. Same happened for Marine Mammals.

When commercial Hunting was stopped, and the Seas are under Federal laws, they said only those who eat and utilze the sea mammals must also live in the area where they hunt...........which disagrees with the Stats stance that everyone can hunt everywhere for food in the state (subsistence). The State vs Fed is an old battle..........

Losing Hunting rights is like a drunk losing their drivers licenses, just because they can no longer drive, it dosent make those who still can "Special" or skirting any laws....

If you can just show me how anyone or group of people are breaking laws, and getting away with it, Id like to see it....hell, Ive been wondering that for most of this thread.....

Bigs

The KL herd summers in Subunit 15A north of the Kenai airport to the Swanson River and in the
extreme western portion of 15B. The population winters on the lower Moose River to the outlet of
Skilak Lake and in the area around Browns Lake. Its range encompasses around 1,200 km2 in and
around the communities of Soldotna, Kenai, and Sterling. This herd has shown the slowest growth compared to the other Kenai herds. Numbers slowly increased to more than 100 caribou
20 years after the reintroduction in 1966. The herd presently numbers about 100–120
individuals. Growth in this population has been limited by predation rather than by habitat. Free-
ranging domestic dogs and coyotes kill calves in summer and wolves prey on all age classes
during winter. Hunts were held in 1981, 1989, 1990, 1991, and 1992, but no permits have been
issued since.


THIS IS FROM :
Caribou Management Report
of survey-inventory activities
1 July 2008–30 June 2010

By F&G. It's a .pdf and I don't know how to link it from my tablet.

Last evening out of curiosity I dug thru my albums and found a picture of the bull, on the back was a date penned in "fall 2001". As I recall it was right around the year of 2000 or so . I got to believe the date on the picture to be correct but whom knows could be earlier or later by a year or so. No big deal to me anymore hell I think the antlers are still hanging in the restaurant my brother owned prior to his death I gave them to him to display not long after I realized I had no more room in the den for stuff.

Caribou you missed my thoughts entirely on the thread or purposely construed them. It was those whom know how to use the system to take advantage of it in a way it was never meant to be used not law breakers. I.e. run a motorized boat out to kill swimming Caribou then bring them ashore an share meat with non native family members...legal yes but not the intent of the law. Robbing nests of shore birds of eggs then doing the same...only to complain about low bird numbers in the future.
Sorry but I do not buy into "gray areas" .

Geeeeeeez.........still stuck on Race 1bigdude?? ......My sarcasm continues.

Yours and my white ass's can hunt all the do da day with a boat for Caribou in Unit 23, legally.
How in hell is it legal to shoot Caribou in the head and cleanly butcher them aside the river, and yet that not be the intent of the laws that allow it??
That dont make no sense.
Its about making meat. No wounded, no skinny's, no meat loss, no chase across ankle breaking Tundra, no packing 150lbs back across that same Tundra, no separating cows from calfs, at their fattest with the skin on and protected from sands, dirt,bugs, take the whole family along for the fun and work too........ taken home and hung up, while it freezes at that time of year to be saved and eaten later.

Non Natives can run a motor boat up to and select, shoot, butcher and distribute Caribou all they want. Only GM Unit 23 and 26 allow this anyways, and its legal, practical and efficient. No wounded, no meat loss and a perfect set up to get meats and get them home cleanly.
Hunting like this happens for about 2 weeks each year, in the Fall, and stops when Rut comes along and the waters freeze up. Its what people up here do to get ready for Winter while the ice is thin and darkness starts getting way to long. The meats from that hunt often last untill late Feb/March and with more daylighjt, we hunt again. Thats like 5 months....

ANYONE can pick Gull, duck and Geese Eggs to eat, legally, in areas that allow it. Unit 23 does.

The birds lay again and again, so we pick for 3 days and stop, the birds lay more and all have babies.Seen that a thousand times over. Gut a Spring Goose and she'll have dozens of eggs in the chute, ready to go.
Its leaving eggs behind will ruin things.
Geese dont feed their young and when their eggs all hatch, they move off and forage.
leaving a couple eggs would have the rest of the clutch the bird lays a few days behind the first that hatch, and they would be abandoned. Seagulls will also abandon immature babies.
So take the clutch and let them lay again. Thats what works.
Humans are not the only Egg eating creatures out there, and gathering eggs has been going on for thousands of years.

The shorebird die offs are from a warmer sea and the bait fish they eat are having to swim deeper than normal, deeper than the Birds can dive, essentially starving them, its not climbing the cliffs and picking eggs, or boating to the thousands of nests in our Lagoon alone.

Its a [bleep] of real work is what it is.

You too can do as others do and legally....like these multi racial riverside Falltime Caribou Hunters are

Give 'm Hell Chip!

+1

AK law says it is illegal to shoot any big game from a boat in SE AK. Prince William Sound it is legal to shoot deer from a boat, but not bears. On Kodiak you can shoot any big game from a boat. Most of AK you can shoot big game from a boat.

A friend just sent in a proposal to the board of fish, meeting now, to change a rule to make a particular act legal statewide. They turned it down saying they see no reason to do so because every management act has consequences. Allowing them to manage things differently gives them options and allows people to continue doing as they have been as much as possible.

AK is huge; do Michigan, Florida, and California (and all the States between) manage everything the same way? Why should AK?

Trying to micromanage a system you obviously do not understand is not your best argument choice.

If the state wide rule were to adopted today without other rule change,we would land and shoot same day Big Game .Unit 6 Deer.

How about the solo youngster[Charlie?] on TLA, seems to have a good head on his shoulders and is living a life so many of us dreamed of in our youth.

Chip add me for x2,Pete53

That kids got talent, that cabin he built is well built and will last him a lifetime. Flies his own plane and traps for a living, they don't make them much like that anymore.

This is accurate. Had two big bulls, presumabley from the low-land herd, in my Sterling yard a few days ago, then they spent several days in the big swamp out back.

My renter just outside Soldotna city limits took this picture from his apartment window a couple seasons back. The bull was just done working the velvet off. Real chutzpah to bed down next to the archery butt....

Hang on - I have to find the picture.

OK not tonight. Not on Imgur, and photobucket log-in is proving difficult. Some nonsense aboutlog-in id and password.... ain't gonna mess with it. Im for bed.

He definitely appears to have it going on and took the knowledge passed to put to good use.
Enjoyed when his sister came up and joined him for a couple of days.
And now he's trapping Harte's line.

We did everything that we could to raise our son loving and respecting the outdoors[bought the most land we could afford etc] and I passed my very limited self-taught skills down to him.
Now he lives at the edge of National Forrest and has a trout stream out his back door[literally].
Guess it works.

Found it.

About those few permits once issued for the low-land herd. Recruitment did not justify any permits at all - tho perhaps the bull/cow ratio did- I don't remember. It was the considered opinion of many of us at the time that the area biologist just could not stand the idea of several probable record-book bulls going to "waste"..... on viewing/photography.

1bigdude

If your date and location of killing that caribou is correct, you done poached it, as it was almost certainly (catch there) of the low-land herd. Where does that leave your argument/opinion?

At that time, permits were available only for the Kenai Mt herd, and the Killey River herd here on the Kenai.

Caribou (Rangifer genus) do wander. A friend working summers for USF&W helped release the second batch of caribou imported from the Nelchina Herd, from up in Interior, behind Tustemena Lake to establish the Killey River herd. The KR herd only became hunt-able by permit due to natural increase several years later.

Later that fall of the release, we were hunting our permits for the Kenai Mt Herd, over by Hope, maybe 80-100 miles from the release site. The cow he took there was one he had helped release a few months before, as established by the radio collar she wore. Unseen until on the ground.


Oops! But she was in the right area (trying to go "home", we think) for the permit issued, so legal. Your permit? was probably invalid for where/when you say you took that bull.

More perspective on "subsistence".

In the old days, it was often literally life or death to "kill as many as possible, whenever possible, any way possible". Technology has changed that issue some, tho not necessarily that thinking among some. Laws and regulations are in place mostly not to control the animals, but to control the people's take/use /means-of-take of those animals, within the ability of the resource to tolerate such. "Fair chase" has no basis in survival. This is not to say it isn't a splendid ethic when one can afford it. Got a problem with shooting swimming animals (as opposed to those grazing peacefully, lured in with feeders, piles of corn in the woods, decoys, blinds over scarce water, hunted with dogs, shooting immature animals, using spotlights?), change the law/regulations. Prosecute those who do not abide. If you can catch them. Remember- most of game management is really people management .

Game management units and differential regulations are set up to address different management issues and conditions, including (maybe mostly!) traditional and political. You maybe missed my rants on Unit 23 "Pregnant Cows Only" season of years past, when I was a "subsistence user" in Kotzebue.... . That was prejudicial, mostly feel good cultural (with some merit) practice embodied into regulation, rubber stamped by the State Board of Game because it neither helped nor harmed the herd. It did inconvenience ( a little) a few people like myself, but they weren't about to fight a losing political/racial/cultural battle when it didn't really matter. It only offended MY (with some merit) cultural prejudices! Doesn't mean I had to like it....just abide by it ....or not get caught. Admittedly, there is a lot of the latter going on everywhere where enforcement is thin, not just in "subsistence" areas. Again, it largely depends on personal ethics, rather than fear of the law in areas with little enforcement available.

Established rules can be discriminatory, such as how one qualifies for a certain type of hunting by where one lives. Just move there, then. It is no more discriminatory than having to pay non-resident fees, in a sense. Or being able to apply for a RM800 moose permit (greatly expanding one's season) or musk-oxen permit, but only by personal appearence in one of several villages in a short time frame. TS. You just have to get there - not dependent on area residency, unless one counts Alaska as a whole. Several of my acquaintence have done just that for musk-ox. Fly in to obtain the permit, then again a few weeks later for the hunt.

As a resident of Kotzebue (back to the OP) I could take advantage of a very generous moose hunting season, between Federal and State regulations, and locations. Virtually from August thru December. Perhaps into March at one point- I disremember. Now, living outside the area, I am restricted to hunting there only during the "sport' season - a few weeks. Unless I fly to Kotzebue in June or early July for the permit. Any Alaskan resident can do that. Similarily, "personal use" salmon fishing with gill or dip net is restricted to Alaska residents by law. Discriminatory? In a sense. And widely abused and broken by residents and non-residents alike, not having obtained the permit- free to Alaskans with a fishing license. And some do get nailed.

The traditional "sharing" of northern (and other) cultures heavily dependent on wild game stems from my first point. Today you might be in the right time/place/luck to kill a bunch of food. Or you might be in a long dry spell - gets pretty hungry there. So the "lucky" ones share their kills, and accept same from others when not "lucky", incapacitated, or just SOL generally. And fresh meat/fish doesn't keep well in some kinds of weather, so it is best to eat it immediately with family, friends, and neighbors if it can't be preserved somehow.

Not so much now-days - most Eskimos now have freezers AND refrigerators (which destroys the old joke....), and other non-"traditional" means of preservation but the sharing tradition endures. Modern technology is expensive to buy, maintain, and feed, so it still makes sense to legally harvest as much as one can handle (process, store, or share at one time) whenever one can, just to make it more cost effective. Not necessarilly cost effective.....just more so. I have given away several times more caribou than I or my immediate family/friends have consume TO THOSE THAT COULD USE IT. AND I HAVE ACCEPTED SOME, tho I didn't really "need" it.. It was a social thing..... Sue me. And I like to hunt.....

And keep in mind humans breed like rats...... The Arctic population is many times what it was 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago, when I first lived there - hunger for some, but very little starvation death, unlike the old days, even in the most remote parts, thanks???? to technology and other "western" advantages.

If the airplanes ever quit flying, tho - and never mind your "special considerations" in game regulations.... there isn't enough food on the hoof or on the fin (much of it seasonally migratory - back to killing whatever, whenever, as much as) to support the current human population anywhere for very long, even in the more remote, small villages, tho they would fare best.

As for "tradition", 1bigdude, as Chip pointed out, sort of, that can be anything that has been done once or more..... using semi-auto .223, airplane/boat/atv access, internet/cell phone communication, post high school inter-village basketball tournaments, and all sorts of other things are now "tradition", so get over it.... It is called "progress", tho many of us are somewhat dubious of it.....

It was once tradition to hunt whitetail deer without restriction until the deer were in real trouble. Closing hunting entirely and/or allowing only bucks be taken was then bitterly fought by "traditionalists". Once numbers came back up, sometimes to the point of range damage and starvation, doe hunting was then bitterly fought by buck-only "traditionalists".

Well said, sir, and historically accurate to the best of my knowledge.

I forgot to include in the above- At any event where large amounts of food are served, it is traditional in the Inuit culture to show up with a box or several bags and take home as much food as one can carry.

For the reasons I stated earlier.

But, boy, does that offend MY cultural perspective....

But when in Rome..... I practised Italian - descretely... I was, after all, one of the Haves. Sort of - but Nolouqui (white).

Spelling might be off....