Have any of you ever polished an expander ball on your sizing die? Is there a "best" expander ball design? I would think a tapered carbide expander ball would be about as smooth a surface as possible and produce consistent results.

The elliptical one Hornady uses is pretty good.

I've polished several different expanders.

I've been playing that game for years.....even bought a carbide ball which proved another disappointment. Get some Q-tips and apply a very small amount of imperial sizing lube to the inside of the case necks.....FWIW.

I've polished every expander ball I own. The biggest problem I had was on the upstroke so a tapered ball wont do much for that. I spin them in a drill press & using 600 grit wet/dry paper move up & down as possible concentrating on polishing the major diameter & rounding the edge opposite the decapping pin hole until it shines like a mirror. Some older dies required a few touches with a very fine file to get the shape right before polishing. There has been a noticeable difference in the amount of grating & drag when pulling it back through then neck. I also use Imperial dry neck lube (powdered graphite). Hornady's elliptical expanders seemed like a good idea when they 1st came out, but they weren't very smooth & the decapping rod wouldn't stay in place no matter how much the lock nut was tightened after a short time so they all went DTFR. Maybe they're better now? Never tried carbide. Never felt a need.

I believe some gun writer has published stuff about not only polishing expander balls, but testing them for straightness on the shaft.

Like vapodog, I tried the carbine expander balls and had little luck--but also have had great luck with very slight amount of Imperial Sizing Die Wax inside case necks. I apply it by smearing a tiny amount of wax on a nylon brush, then running the brush into the necks.

I have been using Imperial. Hoping to eliminate that step. I am old and lazy. Thanks guys and Happy 4th.

I polish every one of mine. I dont use anything on the inside of the neck either. Still turns out very concentric and accurate ammo.

It's very important to dry brush the interior of the case necks before sizing to remove the primer and powder residue. I've never found any lube was necessary if this is done. Use a nylon bristle brush.

Same here.

Instead of wet/dry paper you can use a wad of steel wool loaded with abrasive compound.

Ditto.

I have come to prefer "NO" expander ball.

I use more Lee collet neck sizers than anything else with a couple Redding bushing dies thrown in the mix for cartridges that I couldn't immediately get a collet die for.

Even the Lee Collet die benefits from contouring and polishing the mandrel. Forster and Redding usually don't need it but I may polish anyway. Other dies SOP. I use Hornaday One Shot spray lube and if it seems to need it I brush the case neck with motor mica. This is probably not needed but if there is a lot of carbon it may reduce this and I think it minimizes the drag from the expander ball if used and makes bullet pull more uniform. It also eliminated "cold welding" or oxidation of the bullet and case.

I am not familiar with the Lee Collet Die, better look into it.

Do a search for Mathman's instructions on that die and how to use it.

Much better than what Lee recommends.

DF

In addition to Mathman, Woods was another user who offered a lot of useful info on these dies if you run across his name in any of your searches. Both of these guys are who got me turned onto the collet sizers (and how to best utilize them) several years back.

Yep, Lee collet dies work well--especially if you're not into such anal-retentive techniques as measuring case-neck thickness variations.

You'll need a body die to set back shoulders from time to time when neck sized cases get sorta hard to chamber.

Redding makes a good one, but I've found it cheaper to ream the neck on a Lee FL sizer. So, get the Deluxe set, make a body die out of the FL die and use the Collet neck sizer.

This one was a .22-250 Lee FL sizer, is now a .22-250 body die. Or you can go up a caliber (or two) for the same case, i.e. use a .260 FL sizer as a body die for a .243; the 6mm case neck will clear the 6.5mm die neck.

Those dies are really hard and I used a grinder. Had a Dremil grinding tip that was worn down enough to fit in the .224 neck. You have to work on it a while, cut enough die neck so it clears the case neck. I'm not a big fan of LEE FL sizers, some are better than others. This one's highest and best use is as a body die.

DF

Another ditto here.

kwg

They do pretty well even when you are.

You guys are killing me, I'm to old to learn all this and the moose I shoot won't appreciate it. I will get knowed up on the Lee Collet dies and don't plan on measuring case neck variations.

Long ago when I loaded .300 Savage, 30-06 and .264 Win. Mag ammo with my Dad he had some old Lyman dies for each caliber and the little yellow cups with a mark on them. He scooped the powder out, which was surplus H4831 for the ought six and .264 and went hunting.

This reloading good straight consistent ammo is time consuming!

I think what JB is saying, the Lee Collet set up sorta makes case neck thickness less critical, as it compensates somewhat.

Of course, great brass is always a good thing regardless of die system used.

DF

I'm with you DF, I thought that's what he was getting at too.

We need a sticky with your Lee Collet Die instructions.

I refer to it occasionally. Where can that be easily found? For future reference...

DF

I have to search for it too.

I found one under post #10863004

Am I in the minority using the Lee instructions? Not saying they are better than mathman's. It just works. With my old rock chucker, I screw in the die till it contacts the shell holder and go 2 more full turns. I can feel the collect work with pressure on the handle with no cam over. Done.

If it works consistently for you then you're golden.

I'm having trouble turning a post number into a link...

DF

Mathman's instructions for Lee Collet dies::

The first thing I recommend is to ignore the instructions supplied with the die.

The second thing I recommend is to ignore whether or not the press you're using cams over at the top of its stroke.

The die squeezes the neck onto a mandrel, so for a given neck thickness there is a finite limit to how much sizing you can achieve. This die will need adjustment to suit different thicknesses of brass.

Raise the press ram to the top of its stroke. Thread the die into the press until the bottom of the sizing collet (not the die body) just touches the shell holder. Measure the neck OD of a piece of brass.

Run the brass through the die using a full press stroke. It should take no effort since if you're set up as described the die has done no sizing. Turn the die into the press about 1/4 turn. Run the brass in again. You probably won't feel much sizing going on, but give the neck a measurement just to see. If it's still nothing, screw the die in another 1/4th and try again. You'll may start feeling a bit going on as you work the press handle, and if so you'll be able to measure a little sizing taking place.

Rinse and repeat using 1/16th turn in increments for the die. You'll feel increases in the force required for the sizing stroke. Since you're measuring the neck after each pass you'll eventually find two increments where the neck didn't get any smaller. NOW STOP TURNING THE DIE INTO THE PRESS. Remember you're squeezing the brass against a solid steel mandrel which isn't going to give, so even if the press stroke didn't feel like it took very much force the neck is as small as it's going to get.

There's a learning curve to the die, but it isn't hard.

I like to run cases through the die twice, spinning the case about 1/3 turn (rather than the 1/2 turn in the instructions) between passes. This means the parts of the neck that were under the splits in the collet fingers on the first pass will get hit on the second.

Addition from roundoak:

If you have not done so already, take the top cap off and check to see if the collet splits are free from debris and inspect the collet further for burrs and polish if necessary. Then apply a film of grease on the tapered surface of the collet. I use the grease that is applied to a chainsaw bar sprocket tip.

When properly set up it takes very little ram pressure to size the case, if you feel a lot of resistance....STOP and figure out the problem.

Thanks, JB...

DF

You're welcome!

(Hey, I know when to save--or steal--good schidt....)

Thanks for making it easy. My access to the internet these days is via a phone that's dragging me into the 21st century and I'm not yet a power user.

On new brass I use a Sinclair Carbide Neck Expander Mandrel, and that is it.

I remove the expander balls from my Redding dies and never use them in sizing my brass.

I'm sure that works, just an extra step to size then expand...

Set up right, the Lee Collet neck sizer does pretty close the same thing with one easy step.

Only Lee down side is an occasional body die that you won't need with your system. But, that step isn't needed every time.

DF

I use a collet die because I am too lazy to fiddle with other dies. And, of course, bother with lube.

I wonder who the first BR shooter and writer were who started us on the equipment rollercoaster?

I ditched the expander ball years ago and my concentricity improved immediately. You can use the Lee collet die or pick up a mandrel body like this one...

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...s-prod38807.aspx?sid=63474&pid=36422

Then just buy mandrels for your calibers. I use the "turning" mandrels which are cut to .002 inches below caliber diameter. "Expander" mandrels will get you .001 inches below caliber diameter. They're made in steel or carbide. Carbide supposedly doesn't require lube but is significantly more expensive over the steel variants.

Carbide turning mandrels....
https://www.sinclairintl.com/aspx/search/productdetail.aspx?sid=63474&pid=36422

Steel turning mandrels...
https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...s-prod33136.aspx?sid=63474&pid=36422

Lee Collet neck sizer is less expensive than the Sinclair system.

How does concentricity compare between those two systems?

DF

X2 ...... I'd like to see that as well. I have Lee Collet Dies for all my rifles and try to stick to rifles I can use them for. Same for Forster BR seaters.

I did a copy on JB's post of Mathman's instructions, printed it.

I would suggest anyone wanting that info to copy and print it.

DF

I don't have any Lee Collet dies so haven't compared the two systems. I can't imagine there'd be any difference though.

Does anyone have any knowledge of how the hornady bushing dies work? I just ordered a set but all I have ever used is your standard redding or rcbs die. I am assuming that all bushing dies have the mandrel or ball as well or do they not need them since they are using a bushing?

I never use the expander ball in bushing dies, even though most manufacturers say it should be.

Most of my experience is with Redding "S" dies, whether standard or match. I either sort cases for consistent neck thickness, or (pretty rarely) outside-turn them, then just neck-size them with the appropriate bushing. They come out far straighter that way.

Is he depriming rod/pin needed on the collet die? Is that used for alignment ? I am wondering if that may be the cause of caps popping off. Thinking the pin bottoms out when the die is screwed down too far and then the rod hits the bottom of the cap and then pop goes the weasel.

I would think "popping the cap" is from "man handling" the die with a compound press. WAY too much pressure exceeding the design limits of the die. I think the aluminum cap may be a design issue, a "pop off valve" of sorts to prevent more serious damage to the die.

Lee will replace those caps for the cost of postage. Don't ask me how I know...

DF

Yeah, if the cap is popping off the operator is cranking on the handle well past the point where the something aint right indicator should be flashing.

I've done it. Won't say how many times.

Following your excellent instructions, that won't happen.

It's a learning curve, or seems to be for some of us...

At least Lee has our backs...

DF

Lee does like to help.

I have said this before, but it needs repeating. Any time you have to put a lot of pressure on a press handle when resizing, you are doing something wrong.

I tried to follow the Lee instructions and the part about stopping before the lever cammed over had me stumped. How do you know when you have reached that point without camming over? So I tightened the die a quarter turn more and "pop goes the weasel" the old A-2 sent the cap almost in orbit, it hit the ceiling hard enough to sort of ricochet off it. So much for the learning curve. Now I am more familiar with the collet dies and polish and contour everything this has not happened again. It helps to use a lighter non compound press too, the big presses don't have as much feel to them.

With the collet die and a cam-over press Lee says to go 2 full turns down after making shell contact. You will hit a solid stop. Then add pressure. Works for me.

This is a nice video:
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2018/10/how-to-neck-size-cases-with-lee-collet-die/

There's a reason why many of us like Mathman's instructions...

DF

She can do that, too...

I thought about polishing them but was afraid of taking off too much metal and causing problems. And, I didn't really know the best way to do it or if taking too much would cause some problem. Sometimes I'm so anal I screw myself out of making improvements.

I hate that raspy feel on the up stroke of sizing pulling that expander ball through the resized neck. I probably won't go the Lee Colet Die route because I've got too much invested in conventional dies.

I need to get some Imperial Sizing Wax. I've been hearing about it for years but believe it or not I'm only on my 3rd tube of RCBS Lube after 40 years. I use it sparingly. Sometimes I'm just too lazy to change my ways too. I have for years used a Que Tip and put just a small amount of the regular RCBS Case Lube inside the neck, which helps smooth things out, but I always wondered if it was too thick for that.

I have used this gizmo from Bonanza for years. It definitely helps smooth things out, cleans and lubes at the same time.

I use white graphite as well, even with next turning - and personally I think it may help prevent cold welds between the bullet and brass as well.