Hey,
I have my brass and dies set-up to load some 40 grain polymer tipped bullets in my 22 Hornet. What charge are you guys using? I loaded up 12.0, 12.5, and 13.0 grains of Lil gun and it looks like 13.0 grains is compressed and 12.5 may be lightly compressed. Is this your experience too? I used a long drop tube to help.
What velocities are you getting with your 22 Hornet and Lil gun and MP 300? If you could list your charge weight too, that would be greatly appreciated.
There is a thread titled K- Hornet with lots of discussion on the Hornet and K version.
Am out of town. When I get back to my computer, will post the link.
Fire Search function may or may not find it. I don’t find it to be the most robust search engine.
DF
What kind of rifle? Those two powders are easy to load for single-shots where OAL doesn't have to be as short as it does for standard Hornet-length magazines. Some bolt-action magazines are also longer than standard; had a Brno K-Hornet for a while with a magazine that easily allowed larger charges.
What kind of rifle? Those two powders are easy to load for single-shots where OAL doesn't have to be as short as it does for standard Hornet-length magazines. Some bolt-action magazines are also longer than standard; had a Brno K-Hornet for a while with a magazine that easily allowed larger charges.
Hi Mule Deer,
It's a Cooper 38 and I can seat out to about 1.938" o.a.l. to touch the lands with a 40 grain Nosler ballistic tip. It's a single shot bolt action, so magazine length isn't a problem.
Long time back I had a Ruger #1 .22 Hornet, and Li’l Gun hit the market about the time I had it reamed for the K-Hornet. No data out there so I called Hodgdon. Rep said I could fill the case w/o hazard. Worked up the loads so 40 gr Ballistic Tips as I recall. 12.5 was the schizzle, both for accuracy and velocity. 1/2” groups and around 3,100-3,200 FPS as I recall. 13.0 grains topped 3,400 FPS and expanded the primer pocket. YMMV
Mine’s a K Hornet, I like MP-300 with CCI 450’s.
DF
Long time back I had a Ruger #1 .22 Hornet, and Li’l Gun hit the market about the time I had it reamed for the K-Hornet. No data out there so I called Hodgdon. Rep said I could fill the case w/o hazard. Worked up the loads so 40 gr Ballistic Tips as I recall. 12.5 was the schizzle, both for accuracy and velocity. 1/2” groups and around 3,100-3,200 FPS as I recall. 13.0 grains topped 3,400 FPS and expanded the primer pocket. YMMV
Thank you, Digital Dan. Did you ever shoot it as a regular hornet first?
Yes, but it shot much better as a K, and I really don't know why.
Yes, but it shot much better as a K, and I really don't know why.
How did you size the std?
The K does a bit better aligning the neck to bore, even if FL sized.
The std, FL sized, may lie at the chamber bottom a bit, inducing some artificial runout; I partial re-size, leaving a bit of a hump on the shallow shoulder to headspace and align in the chamber.
I use 13 grs. Lil Gun in R-P cases with 40s and 12.5 with WW brass to get similar velocities and not use a drop tube.
Long time back I had a Ruger #1 .22 Hornet, and Li’l Gun hit the market about the time I had it reamed for the K-Hornet. No data out there so I called Hodgdon. Rep said I could fill the case w/o hazard. Worked up the loads so 40 gr Ballistic Tips as I recall. 12.5 was the schizzle, both for accuracy and velocity. 1/2” groups and around 3,100-3,200 FPS as I recall. 13.0 grains topped 3,400 FPS and expanded the primer pocket. YMMV
Obviously, you got what you got, but Hodgdon data shows much lower pressure with Li'l Gun than with other powders, one of the reasons Mule Deer has cited for using it himself. 3400 is pretty sporty for that charge level as well.
There's a reason for what happened, probably lost in the mists of Time......Not an experiment I'd care to attempt though. 13gr in my plain old Hornet works just fine with Vmaxes, with CCI 450s.
Yes, but it shot much better as a K, and I really don't know why.
IMO, the K version is just a better round.
DF
That has not been my experience, but then my "standard" Hornets have all been single-shots, with plenty of room to seat bullets out. The latest is an old BSA Martini .22 target rifle converted to Hornet, which shoots the same 40-grain Ballistic Tip/Li'l Gun handloads used in my No. 1B Hornet very similarly for 5-shot groups at 100 yards--around 3/4" and sometimes 1/2". Velocities aren't different enough to make enough difference in the field for me to notice--though the barrels of the Ruger and BSA have been long--29 inches in the BSA. There can also be feeding problems from magazines in K-Hornets, though not usually converted CZ 527s.
As HawkI mentioned, the K-Hornet does full-length size straighter than the standard Hornet, due to the case being close to parallel-sized. But I manage to size standard Hornet cases straight as well, using at couple of techniques.
But have also mentioned here and there that I prefer the .17 Hornady Hornet to either of the .22 Hornets.
Yes, but it shot much better as a K, and I really don't know why.
IMO, the K version is just a better round.
DF
Agreed.
I bought a CZ 527 in .22 Hornet about 10 years ago. The first (and only) handload recipe that I tried was a winner - 40 gr. Hornady V-max, 13.0 grs. Li'l Gun and a CCI SRP. Clocks around 3,010 a few feet from the muzzle and makes nice little 3 shot clusters measuring under ½" at 100 yards when I do my part. Easily my most accurate rifle and ammo combination.
Yes, but it shot much better as a K, and I really don't know why.
IMO, the K version is just a better round.
DF
Agreed.
Guess I should have stated I like it better.
And, I do. No regrets converting two Hornets to K. Did it myself with a rented reamer. Not that hard.
DF
How much LilGun? Depends on the brass. 13.0 grains of LilGun will not fit in PPU brass but it will fit in Winchester brass. PPU brass is heavier than Remington, Winchester
How much LilGun? Depends on the brass. 13.0 grains of LilGun will not fit in PPU brass but it will fit in Winchester brass. PPU brass is heavier than Remington, Winchester
Check how Gunner500 loads his Hornet cases with Lil gun. He shares his secret on the link I posted above.
That’s another reason why I like the K Hornet better. Just easier to get enough MP-300 or Lilgun in the case.
DF
For what I use mine for I run 11gr lil gun with both 40 and 45gr bullets. Both are accurate. For a while I used 12.5-13gr and was only getting 2-3 reloads before that thin brass split.
For what I use mine for I run 11gr lil gun with both 40 and 45gr bullets. Both are accurate. For a while I used 12.5-13gr and was only getting 2-3 reloads before that thin brass split.
I'm thinking K brass may last a bit longer.
Would appreciate input on that.
DF
There's no reason it would; I have military Hornet cases dated 1960 that Ive loaded 5 times myself. They are partial or neck sized.
The case is thin and the fireform on a rimmed case can do as much case stretching as several full length resizes.
Both done correctly, Ive never seen a difference.
I’ve loaded for a couple Anschutz 22 hornets for many years.
My load is-
WIN cases
Fed sm pistol primer
13.2 lil gun, heaping full case
Berger 40 hp ( plastic tips won’t fit in magazine)
I have loaded some 40 V Max and single loaded them, but prefer repeater capability in a PD town.
I’m getting sub 1” accuracy and 3000 FPS out of this load.
For what I use mine for I run 11gr lil gun with both 40 and 45gr bullets. Both are accurate. For a while I used 12.5-13gr and was only getting 2-3 reloads before that thin brass split.
I would guess your chamber is a little large--though would like to know where it split.
Have been using the same batch of Winchester brass for around 20 years, shooting LOTS of rounds at "burrowing rodents." The only problem I had (mentioned in Dirtfarmer's link to the old thread on this subject: My first .22 Hornet was a T/C Contender Carbine on the original action, not the G2. In it ANY Hornet ammo stretched so much on one side near the base that around 1/3 were ruined for further loading.
In all my other .22 Hornets, when loaded with Li'l Gun the cases have so far just kept on truckin'.
[quote=DANNYL]
In all my other .22 Hornets, when loaded with Li'l Gun the cases have so far just kept on truckin'.
That's been my experience too. For the last year my Winchester 54 K-Hornet has digested a bunch of 10.8 L'il Gun/45 gr. .223" and the W-W and R-P cases show no signs of stress yet.
But, there's a caveat: my chamber was cut by Lyle Kilbourn himself. Could be some ju-ju in that
. (That, plus forming the brass to K-dimensions from virgin brass with a hydraulic form die which eliminates stretching generated by fireforming.
MD the only split has been in the neck,could just be my gun but I'm used to it. My hornet is the standard handi rifle and used mostly for yard pest. I have taken deer with it using the 45gr hornet bullet,all were lung shots and it's hard for some to believe that some dropped in their tracks and if I had one take off they didn't make it 50yds. I just keep my shots under 100yds. Shot placement is the key.
In my CZ I was having trouble using 13 grains of Lil Gun and Mule Deer suggested a CCI Small Rifle Mag primer. Never looked back. Great accuracy with the 40 BT Sierra and an honest 3100 fps. Crows hate hate it.
And I have some Norma brass that has been reloaded so many time you would call BS if I gave up the number.
That's pretty much been my experience with Winchester and Hornady .22 Hornet brass as well.
The reason the cases of most improved cartridges last longer is they headspace on the shoulder--and the steeper shoulder results in more resistance to the firing pin's fall, just about eliminating case stretching during firing. But the .22 Hornet headspaces on the rim, not the almost non-existent "shoulder."
As I noted earlier, the only .22 Hornet rifle where I've experience enough case stretching to result in short brass life was an older T/C Contender carbine. The brass in my bolt-action and falling-block Hornets just keeps on going, especially when loaded with Lil Gun or MP 300, because the pressures are so much lower than with "traditional" Hornet powders like H110.
Dirt: Thanks for the link. I load for varmints and therefore high volume. I have tried a long drop tube and have also used vibration (shaker table). Both add to the reloading time. For that reason I neck size which eliminates the case lube steps of applying and cleaning. No lube eliminates K-Hornet for me.
Dirt: Thanks for the link. I load for varmints and therefore high volume. I have tried a long drop tube and have also used vibration (shaker table). Both add to the reloading time. For that reason I neck size which eliminates the case lube steps of applying and cleaning. No lube eliminates K-Hornet for me.
Doubt anyone can get more powder in a Hornet case than gunner.
He shares some of his secrets on the link.
DF
Do you guys prefer standard or magnum primers with your Lil Gun loads in your K's? I've been using standard CCI small rifle primers with satisfaction, but am open to suggestions that I'm missing out on something.
Do you guys prefer standard or magnum primers with your Lil Gun loads in your K's? I've been using standard CCI small rifle primers with satisfaction, but am open to suggestions that I'm missing out on something.
CCI 450's work very well, may be optimal. Check out work by JB.
It's my K-Hornet primer.
DF
In my CZ I was having trouble using 13 grains of Lil Gun and Mule Deer suggested a CCI Small Rifle Mag primer. Never looked back. Great accuracy with the 40 BT Sierra and an honest 3100 fps. Crows hate hate it.
And I have some Norma brass that has been reloaded so many time you would call BS if I gave up the number.
What kind of die do you use to size your brass?
Dirt: Thanks for the link. I load for varmints and therefore high volume. I have tried a long drop tube and have also used vibration (shaker table). Both add to the reloading time. For that reason I neck size which eliminates the case lube steps of applying and cleaning. No lube eliminates K-Hornet for me.
Doubt anyone can get more powder in a Hornet case than gunner.
He shares some of his secrets on the link.
DF
What exactly does he do? I couldn't find it.
Dirt: Thanks for the link. I load for varmints and therefore high volume. I have tried a long drop tube and have also used vibration (shaker table). Both add to the reloading time. For that reason I neck size which eliminates the case lube steps of applying and cleaning. No lube eliminates K-Hornet for me.
Doubt anyone can get more powder in a Hornet case than gunner.
He shares some of his secrets on the link.
DF
What exactly does he do? I couldn't find it.
Long drop tube and some gunner magic...
DF
Edited to add gunner's quote.
DF,
"Do not fear the drop tube young grasshopper, walk toward the light my friend." 
I can get that amount of powder in my K cases without the "gunner maneuver"...
Another reason I like the K.
DF